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X Japan : On the verge of destruction, AGAIN

WeekEnder · 706

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Offline WeekEnder

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on: January 05, 2020, 03:55:03 PM
Ya'll know that X is being ridiculously inactive and all members are refraining from talking about the band from a while, which is ofc SKETCHY AF. The decade-delayed album aside, most of us know that there was some internal mess within members, especially Toshi since 2018 which allegedly is delaying X activity. This claim is further concreted by the fact that he basically unfollowed or removed any X related things from his social media and his personal website. This is concerning af so i rambled around and talk to some people over there in japan and they made some crazy claims,  and everyone is telling me the same story so yep...it is kinda uh..idk, credible?

Basically according to them the main culprit behind the mess is Toshi. The BS started when Toshi allegedly demanded more money to perform in Lunatic Fest 2018 and in the end X couldnt perform. This supposedly pissed Pata off and he got into a argument with Toshi, Yoshiki somehow stopped the fight and they continued to perform in later shows like 3days Makuhari Messe and Dream festival 2018, supposedly high tension between bandmembers resulted in visible bad enviroment on stage during these performances.

Pata, still pissed after Toshi's comments on the Red Swan incident got into argument with Toshi again supposedly and this time when Yoshiki tried to break it up, Toshi got very mad at yoshiki. Yoshiki again somehow managed to get them together mid 2019 but Toshi allegedly demanded a break to record-release and promote his new album I AM A SINGER 2. This pretty much climaxed the mess and Pata refused to perform or even talk to Toshi again and Yoshiki low-key got mad, so Toshi noped the fuck out of anything related by X japan. (Pata follows every X member on social media except Toshi, Toshi never replies to birthday wishes or wishes anything with other X members and never took pics with them after these incidents, which according to those who told me these rumors, is a credible proof)

Of course theres no way to confirm these, but being a sensible Xfreak it was my duty to report the rumors here.


Anyways its depressing af :(

*nuzzles*


Offline Kasumi

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Reply #1 on: January 05, 2020, 05:38:17 PM
I don't know what but something is off about this band. Maybe it's just time to say goodbye already.

I cannot imagine Toshi and Pata to be fighting to be honest. And that there is nothing X-related on Toshis social media anymore isn't proof for anything imo. And not taking pictures with other X members? Well I guess that means Sugizo isn't part of X anymore?  ;)
https://www.instagram.com/p/B6msD0Cn-kr/
Social Media can't proof these things. It's just a facade and I wouldn't believe anything that fans speculate because of it. Noone of us knows 100% what is happening.

But still sad to see this band break apart for whatever reason there might be.

While I'm away, read this line again...


Offline WeekEnder

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Reply #2 on: January 05, 2020, 06:05:58 PM
I don't know what but something is off about this band. Maybe it's just time to say goodbye already.

I cannot imagine Toshi and Pata to be fighting to be honest. And that there is nothing X-related on Toshis social media anymore isn't proof for anything imo. And not taking pictures with other X members? Well I guess that means Sugizo isn't part of X anymore?  ;)
https://www.instagram.com/p/B6msD0Cn-kr/
Social Media can't proof these things. It's just a facade and I wouldn't believe anything that fans speculate because of it. Noone of us knows 100% what is happening.

But still sad to see this band break apart for whatever reason there might be.


I personally don't give a damn about the rumor. But the silence is scaring me :-\

*nuzzles*


Offline Joker

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Reply #3 on: January 05, 2020, 06:28:34 PM
Well I guess that means Sugizo isn't part of X anymore?  ;)

On the caption for this picture, Toshi just mentions #lunasea.

I don't think the issue is only "Toshi wanted more money". The rumours may be partly correct, but I think isn't as simple as "Pata and Toshi went into a fight". There is something quite deeper going on. The way Yoshiki handled Red Swan shows there is something else happening...



Offline axlroseX

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Reply #4 on: January 06, 2020, 03:44:21 AM
Its pretty clear something bad happened. That explains why Yoshiki said the album was done but couldnt be released.

Whatever it is, it's a very dissapointing ending. Especially after the optimism presented at the end of "We Are X", it's very sad fhe reunion basically limped on crutches for 10 years and then fizzled out with a complete whimper. The Red Swan incident is utterly bizarre, and its possible it was in response to something as opposed to a misguided decision out of nowhere. It seems Yoshiki was testing the waters to see if Hyde could replace Toshi.

I hope they reconcile to salvage their personal relationships, and can do a final tour and release the album. It would let the band end with some dignity. If not, its sadly fitting and symbolic that their last show was played to an empty arena.



Offline OmniaDei

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Reply #5 on: January 06, 2020, 07:33:49 AM
Yea I also felt Yoshiki's IG and live comments were really weird. For me personally, if they could address this issue to fans more honestly and be frank about the fact that X is probably not gonna get together for a long time (again), it probably wouldn't have felt as bad, but it's the lack of information and not knowing what is happening that's the really scary part.

And also if this rumor is true though, at least it answers one age old question I had, which what things can actually manage to piss off Pata besides soba and Giants losing. Toshi must have pissed him off real hard cuz to my knowledge I never knew Pata could seriously get mad at anyone.



Offline nb

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Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 07:47:54 AM
And also if this rumor is true though, at least it answers one age old question I had, which what things can actually manage to piss off Pata besides soba and Giants losing. Toshi must have pissed him off real hard cuz to my knowledge I never knew Pata could seriously get mad at anyone.

Imho it sounds really fishy.

If it wouldn't include PATA it sounds very legit, but with him? Idk... something is off... But maybe I'm wrong... Who knows?


EDIT:
I checked Toshis Twitter profile. He never mentioned there anything about his X Japan activities. So he hadn't removed anything. ( https://web.archive.org/web/20181011081729/https:/twitter.com/toshlofficial )
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 10:09:25 AM by nb »


positively unsure。


Offline WeekEnder

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Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 12:01:02 PM
seems legit. I will go through his insta and other stuff and see if theres something fishy

*nuzzles*


Offline Joker

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Reply #8 on: January 06, 2020, 06:00:04 PM
EDIT:
I checked Toshis Twitter profile. He never mentioned there anything about his X Japan activities. So he hadn't removed anything. ( https://web.archive.org/web/20181011081729/https:/twitter.com/toshlofficial )

Your link is from 2018/10. After all this mess.
His last posts mentioning X are pictures from Coachella on his Instagram.

And I follow his social accounts since they started, I clearly remember X was mentioned many times. Like his Instagram before the empty concerts (http://web.archive.org/web/20180923070825/https://www.instagram.com/toshl_officia/). Like the benefits for his fanclub (before and after the empty concerts).



Offline magucathy

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Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 08:59:22 PM
I don't know what to believe.
For sure something fishy has happened.
If Toshi wants more money.... won't it be better to release the album sooner when the people still want to buy it?



Offline Kasumi

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Reply #10 on: January 09, 2020, 02:23:54 PM

If Toshi wants more money.... won't it be better to release the album sooner when the people still want to buy it?
Yes, most definetly. But Yoshiki seems to not even want to talk about that album anymore.

If I were in this band I would be pissed off. So it doesn't really surprise that X is destroying itself again.

While I'm away, read this line again...


Offline BLUE_BLOOD

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Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 02:00:07 PM
Yoshiki created this mess himself. He should have never promised/announced a new album to begin with.



Offline treex

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Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 12:54:24 AM
As a relatively new fan, I find this discussion interesting.

From what I understand, Yoshiki controls X Japan, he owns it, right? And the other band members are hired as needed?

It's not surprising that the money issue would come up at some point. The others get a salary, Yoshiki gets everything else. Sadly, that's not really a "band". So if they release a new album as X Japan... do they share the profits or does Yoshiki get everything? Surely, this has come up.



Offline OmniaDei

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Reply #13 on: January 12, 2020, 05:12:00 AM
As a relatively new fan, I find this discussion interesting.

From what I understand, Yoshiki controls X Japan, he owns it, right? And the other band members are hired as needed?

It's not surprising that the money issue would come up at some point. The others get a salary, Yoshiki gets everything else. Sadly, that's not really a "band". So if they release a new album as X Japan... do they share the profits or does Yoshiki get everything? Surely, this has come up.

Not 100% sure on that. The business side of X has always been confusing AF. Prior to their break-out they did have an old management company and each member had shares of it, but after breakup it was closed down and Yoshiki transferred all X rights and debts to a new company, which then pays the copyright to other members. Last time I checked, this is currently his own agency (but not sure how much ownership he has over it). I think the whole confusing business side was at least partially the reason behind all the Headwax, Nexstar, Heath lawsuits (as far as I heard).There were quite a few shady people involved with X management back in those days, but once Yoshiki gets rid of them, I'm not sure whether the staff he replaces them with are all that capable either I feel like? But again, not 100% sure on that, hopefully there might be some fan who actually knows about corporate or copyright law LOOL




Offline Joker

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Reply #14 on: January 12, 2020, 01:31:55 PM
As a relatively new fan, I find this discussion interesting.

From what I understand, Yoshiki controls X Japan, he owns it, right? And the other band members are hired as needed?

It's not surprising that the money issue would come up at some point. The others get a salary, Yoshiki gets everything else. Sadly, that's not really a "band". So if they release a new album as X Japan... do they share the profits or does Yoshiki get everything? Surely, this has come up.

Not 100% sure on that. The business side of X has always been confusing AF. Prior to their break-out they did have an old management company and each member had shares of it, but after breakup it was closed down and Yoshiki transferred all X rights and debts to a new company, which then pays the copyright to other members. Last time I checked, this is currently his own agency (but not sure how much ownership he has over it). I think the whole confusing business side was at least partially the reason behind all the Headwax, Nexstar, Heath lawsuits (as far as I heard).There were quite a few shady people involved with X management back in those days, but once Yoshiki gets rid of them, I'm not sure whether the staff he replaces them with are all that capable either I feel like? But again, not 100% sure on that, hopefully there might be some fan who actually knows about corporate or copyright law LOOL



Exactly.

This came up after the Headwax lawsuit. They exposed how X businesses worked.
Basically they created a management company, called Excess 24, on which each member had their shares (even Yoshiki having more than the others). It worked like this until 2008, according to Headwax statement. Basically after the first reunion concerts, all the bands' rights were transferred to Japan Music Agency (JMA), Yoshiki's office. And since then the members are hired by JMA, they don't have any part of the band anymore.

Yoshiki tried to centralize everything on himself, not only the management.

I won't extend myself, but my replies to an older thread (https://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7567.0) I show what I think is wrong with X. And is basically how Yoshiki handles everything awfully.



Offline OmniaDei

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Reply #15 on: January 12, 2020, 07:32:03 PM
Exactly.

This came up after the Headwax lawsuit. They exposed how X businesses worked.
Basically they created a management company, called Excess 24, on which each member had their shares (even Yoshiki having more than the others). It worked like this until 2008, according to Headwax statement. Basically after the first reunion concerts, all the bands' rights were transferred to Japan Music Agency (JMA), Yoshiki's office. And since then the members are hired by JMA, they don't have any part of the band anymore.

Yoshiki tried to centralize everything on himself, not only the management.

I won't extend myself, but my replies to an older thread (https://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7567.0) I show what I think is wrong with X. And is basically how Yoshiki handles everything awfully.

The version I read that's translated from 2ch (yeah, 2ch, so take it with a grain of salt) goes something like this: an Excess 24 manager (not "Takeda" from Toshi's biography, but another one after him) persuaded GLAY to break away from Yoshiki's label around the time when X JAPAN was breaking up. Yoshiki then was facing a situation where he still had the debts from X JAPAN in Excess 24 but was not making any profits in the short-term, so some other shady guy came up to Y and promised to take care of the debt in exchange for X copyright, and that's how Japan Music Agency and all the confusing business side came about (and that's around 2000, not 2008 when the band reunited). According to this version, the pressure for reunion came after GLAY was problems with this manager, so that manager had to bank on an X reunion to get money. Around this time he was involved with NEXSTAR, but at least at one point he was also involved with Headwax (I think as a board member), and in 1998 he was even the official organizer for hide's funeral, so he definitely did have something to do with the lawsuits.

This version doesn't completely check out because "Takeda" did not feature in that story, but it does explain why GLAY wasn't on speaking terms with Yoshiki for years and suddenly got friendly to him again around the time of X reunion. Also this was translated years back when the lawsuits were still going on, so I'm not sure whether Yoshiki has completely got rid of these guys yet (probably yes), or replaced them with capable managers (probably not).



Offline Joker

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Reply #16 on: January 12, 2020, 10:26:45 PM
Exactly.

This came up after the Headwax lawsuit. They exposed how X businesses worked.
Basically they created a management company, called Excess 24, on which each member had their shares (even Yoshiki having more than the others). It worked like this until 2008, according to Headwax statement. Basically after the first reunion concerts, all the bands' rights were transferred to Japan Music Agency (JMA), Yoshiki's office. And since then the members are hired by JMA, they don't have any part of the band anymore.

Yoshiki tried to centralize everything on himself, not only the management.

I won't extend myself, but my replies to an older thread (https://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?topic=7567.0) I show what I think is wrong with X. And is basically how Yoshiki handles everything awfully.

The version I read that's translated from 2ch (yeah, 2ch, so take it with a grain of salt) goes something like this: an Excess 24 manager (not "Takeda" from Toshi's biography, but another one after him) persuaded GLAY to break away from Yoshiki's label around the time when X JAPAN was breaking up. Yoshiki then was facing a situation where he still had the debts from X JAPAN in Excess 24 but was not making any profits in the short-term, so some other shady guy came up to Y and promised to take care of the debt in exchange for X copyright, and that's how Japan Music Agency and all the confusing business side came about (and that's around 2000, not 2008 when the band reunited). According to this version, the pressure for reunion came after GLAY was problems with this manager, so that manager had to bank on an X reunion to get money. Around this time he was involved with NEXSTAR, but at least at one point he was also involved with Headwax (I think as a board member), and in 1998 he was even the official organizer for hide's funeral, so he definitely did have something to do with the lawsuits.

This version doesn't completely check out because "Takeda" did not feature in that story, but it does explain why GLAY wasn't on speaking terms with Yoshiki for years and suddenly got friendly to him again around the time of X reunion. Also this was translated years back when the lawsuits were still going on, so I'm not sure whether Yoshiki has completely got rid of these guys yet (probably yes), or replaced them with capable managers (probably not).


This actually makes sense, even with some holes.
But the manager could approach Yoshiki to get X copyright, but to do it, all the members (which were actually Pata, Heath, Hiroshi managind hide's part and Masaya managing Toshi's part) should agreed, as they all had their shares. How did he convince all of them? Mostly Hiroshi and Masaya, which I think would be the most difficult to deal.



Offline OmniaDei

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Reply #17 on: January 12, 2020, 11:19:41 PM

This actually makes sense, even with some holes.
But the manager could approach Yoshiki to get X copyright, but to do it, all the members (which were actually Pata, Heath, Hiroshi managind hide's part and Masaya managing Toshi's part) should agreed, as they all had their shares. How did he convince all of them? Mostly Hiroshi and Masaya, which I think would be the most difficult to deal.

I don't remember Toshi's autobiography that well, but I think there was a time around X Japan's breakup when his second brother was still managing his personal agency, and was fighting with Moritani? If the copyright change did occur in this time frame, I don't think HOH had enough control yet to raise any objections. Also another thing from his book, when the "Takeda" issue happened, Toshi had to return some of his Excess 24 shares as a form of apology. Not sure how much he returned, but this probably had something to do with how much say he has in X management.

As for Hiroshi, there are conspiracy theories that suggested he might have been manipulated by this ex-manager (again, that manager was close enough with Hiroshi to be the official funeral organizer for hide, was once involved with Headwax). He was suing Yoshiki and Japan Music Agency, but left Nexstar out of it (if I remember correctly). Another thing from that 2ch story I forgot to mention was that, this manager was also head of the X Japan production management committee which was created around the reunion in partnership with all members' agencies, but allegedly after all the money laundering and deficits that went down, the existing 4 members all decided to go around/break away from this committee. This might have eventually led to all the disorganization later on too?

PS. Heath's fight with his agency also somehow featured in this story, but wasn't explained very clearly.
 



Offline Joker

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Reply #18 on: January 13, 2020, 01:33:52 AM

This actually makes sense, even with some holes.
But the manager could approach Yoshiki to get X copyright, but to do it, all the members (which were actually Pata, Heath, Hiroshi managind hide's part and Masaya managing Toshi's part) should agreed, as they all had their shares. How did he convince all of them? Mostly Hiroshi and Masaya, which I think would be the most difficult to deal.

I don't remember Toshi's autobiography that well, but I think there was a time around X Japan's breakup when his second brother was still managing his personal agency, and was fighting with Moritani? If the copyright change did occur in this time frame, I don't think HOH had enough control yet to raise any objections. Also another thing from his book, when the "Takeda" issue happened, Toshi had to return some of his Excess 24 shares as a form of apology. Not sure how much he returned, but this probably had something to do with how much say he has in X management.

As for Hiroshi, there are conspiracy theories that suggested he might have been manipulated by this ex-manager (again, that manager was close enough with Hiroshi to be the official funeral organizer for hide, was once involved with Headwax). He was suing Yoshiki and Japan Music Agency, but left Nexstar out of it (if I remember correctly). Another thing from that 2ch story I forgot to mention was that, this manager was also head of the X Japan production management committee which was created around the reunion in partnership with all members' agencies, but allegedly after all the money laundering and deficits that went down, the existing 4 members all decided to go around/break away from this committee. This might have eventually led to all the disorganization later on too?

PS. Heath's fight with his agency also somehow featured in this story, but wasn't explained very clearly.
 

IIRC, Toshi's management agency (Toshi Office) was led by his brother. Toshi then transferred everything to HoH and his brother sued him trying to get back. On Toshi's biography he says that even the money he received from X went directly to Masaya, and the company Toshi Office was transferred to a building owned by HoH which he didn't even know where was located.



Offline treex

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Reply #19 on: January 13, 2020, 09:40:12 AM
So, apparently Yoshiki stated in his New Year's message that X Japan would not be active in 2020. That supposedly a number of contract issues with members and management issues have to be resolved before X Japan can resume.

Note that I say apparently and supposedly since I am using Google Translate to read some blogs and messages from people who were discussing it. So I could be totally wrong, as Google Translate isn't great with Japanese. But it makes sense from what we know. Note that I'm not sure if he said the second part about the contract and management issues, they could have been speculating that part.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 09:48:43 AM by treex »



Offline nb

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Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 10:14:22 AM
So, apparently Yoshiki stated in his New Year's message that X Japan would not be active in 2020. That supposedly a number of contract issues with members and management issues have to be resolved before X Japan can resume.

this is a bummer :(

Note that I say apparently and supposedly since I am using Google Translate to read some blogs and messages from people who were discussing it. So I could be totally wrong, as Google Translate isn't great with Japanese. But it makes sense from what we know. Note that I'm not sure if he said the second part about the contract and management issues, they could have been speculating that part.

A couple of our members are quite fluent in Japanese. Maybe you want to give us some links, so we can reread it? :)


positively unsure。


Offline TaijiSawada

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Reply #21 on: January 18, 2020, 11:49:11 AM
So, apparently Yoshiki stated in his New Year's message that X Japan would not be active in 2020. That supposedly a number of contract issues with members and management issues have to be resolved before X Japan can resume.


Yoshiki's message was this https://www.instagram.com/p/B6vb9cTAIeM/ but he doesn't mention any hiatus for the band. The strangest thing IMO is his "I felt alone" while apologizing for missing the (supposed, I know) deadline for X's new album.

I don't think he's doing well at all...



Offline Joker

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Reply #22 on: January 18, 2020, 12:40:24 PM
So, apparently Yoshiki stated in his New Year's message that X Japan would not be active in 2020. That supposedly a number of contract issues with members and management issues have to be resolved before X Japan can resume.


Yoshiki's message was this https://www.instagram.com/p/B6vb9cTAIeM/ but he doesn't mention any hiatus for the band. The strangest thing IMO is his "I felt alone" while apologizing for missing the (supposed, I know) deadline for X's new album.

I don't think he's doing well at all...

He said it in a live on Youtube, on January 2nd.