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An important announcement on July 8, LA time

lakeisle · 33083

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Teemeah

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Reply #180 on: July 17, 2018, 02:32:53 PM
http://s.webry.info/sp/blueverse.at.webry.info/201807/article_19.html

This is what I found. This person says, he/she went to 2 of Yoshiki's dinner shows (second and third night), and she quoted him. He quoted Toshi as well, about what he said on Toshi channel.

「個人的には残念な気持ちはありますけれども
"Personally, I feel dissapointed"

「YOSHIKIが選んだ人」「YOSHIKIが決めること」
ということでした.

"Yoshiki choose that person(Hyde). It was Yoshiki's decision."

She also said, what Yoshiki said on his dinner show. He said "I was questioning myself a lot when X Japan broke up. I didn't know what went wrong. I took resposibility of their lives as a leader, and told them to "follow me". They followed me, but something went wrong. I hope, it's still not too late (to fix things)".

That's all I could find.

Edit: to avoid misunderstandings, the "something went wrong" part is for the past events. Something went wrong in the past so they broke up. And he was wondering what did he do wrong.

Thank you. That's still a third person quoting and not the stream itself... I hope someone will put the Toshi channel stream on youtube. Sentences taken out of context and without actually seeing the person saying it can be dangerous.



Offline LEMONedMe

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Reply #181 on: July 17, 2018, 02:34:24 PM
And they can be very true as well.  I just took a look at the X Japan page on Facebook and people are in an uproar.  Not a pretty sight for sure. 

Sometimes our tears blinded the love
We lost out dreams along the way
But I never thought you'd trade your soul to the fates
Never thought you'd leave me alone


Offline axlroseX

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Reply #182 on: July 17, 2018, 02:35:09 PM
They should kick Yoshiki out and get a new drummer! Lol



Offline sasasama

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Reply #183 on: July 17, 2018, 02:35:48 PM
http://s.webry.info/sp/blueverse.at.webry.info/201807/article_19.html

This is what I found. This person says, he/she went to 2 of Yoshiki's dinner shows (second and third night), and she quoted him. He quoted Toshi as well, about what he said on Toshi channel.

「個人的には残念な気持ちはありますけれども
"Personally, I feel dissapointed"

「YOSHIKIが選んだ人」「YOSHIKIが決めること」
ということでした.

"Yoshiki choose that person(Hyde). It was Yoshiki's decision."

She also said, what Yoshiki said on his dinner show. He said "I was questioning myself a lot when X Japan broke up. I didn't know what went wrong. I took resposibility of their lives as a leader, and told them to "follow me". They followed me, but something went wrong. I hope, it's still not too late (to fix things)".

That's all I could find.

Edit: to avoid misunderstandings, the "something went wrong" part is for the past events. Something went wrong in the past so they broke up. And he was wondering what did he do wrong.

Thank you. That's still a third person quoting and not the stream itself... I hope someone will put the Toshi channel stream on youtube. Sentences taken out of context and without actually seeing the person saying it can be dangerous.

If you can find anything feel free to share. I tried, but nothing came up. Unfortunately we can't subscribe to Toshi's channel without a Japanese credit card. :/



Offline nb

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Reply #184 on: July 17, 2018, 02:43:20 PM
They should kick Yoshiki out and get a new drummer! Lol

Masayuki Suzuki? ^^


positively unsure。


Offline axlroseX

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Reply #185 on: July 17, 2018, 02:47:22 PM
You obviously cant have X Japan without Yoshiki, but it sucks so bad how hard he tries to destroy the legacy



Teemeah

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Reply #186 on: July 17, 2018, 03:11:22 PM
I don't think he consciously does that, axlroseX. For this guy, X is his life. Look at his VUK period, he had unwashed hair, and looked like a hobo most of the time... and he always looked sad and detached af. I doubt he would consciously and knowingly try to destroy the one thing that legitimately keeps him alive.



Offline axlroseX

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Reply #187 on: July 17, 2018, 03:46:29 PM
I don't think he consciously does that, axlroseX. For this guy, X is his life. Look at his VUK period, he had unwashed hair, and looked like a hobo most of the time... and he always looked sad and detached af. I doubt he would consciously and knowingly try to destroy the one thing that legitimately keeps him alive.

I know he isnt sabotaging the band on purpose... I tried to look past all the delays and broken promises. I love Yoshiki and X, I really do. I wanted to start just being a fan again, but this is so insulting. It is insulting to us, it is insulting to the other members, and it is especially insulting to Toshi. It just is, and there just isnt a way to positively rationalize it. It's a dissapointing and damaging decision. It will damage the fanbase's opinions, and it will damage Toshi's place and opinions in the band. It basically is an unintentional message to everyone in the band- "you are replaceable or expendable... I AM X Japan..." X might be Yoshiki's band and he might write 90% of the music, but those other guys are members too and Toshi ESPECIALLY deserves respect.




Offline sasasama

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Reply #188 on: July 17, 2018, 04:07:43 PM
I don't think he consciously does that, axlroseX. For this guy, X is his life. Look at his VUK period, he had unwashed hair, and looked like a hobo most of the time... and he always looked sad and detached af. I doubt he would consciously and knowingly try to destroy the one thing that legitimately keeps him alive.

I know he isnt sabotaging the band on purpose... I tried to look past all the delays and broken promises. I love Yoshiki and X, I really do. I wanted to start just being a fan again, but this is so insulting. It is insulting to us, it is insulting to the other members, and it is especially insulting to Toshi. It just is, and there just isnt a way to positively rationalize it. It's a dissapointing and damaging decision. It will damage the fanbase's opinions, and it will damage Toshi's place and opinions in the band. It basically is an unintentional message to everyone in the band- "you are replaceable or expendable... I AM X Japan..." X might be Yoshiki's band and he might write 90% of the music, but those other guys are members too and Toshi ESPECIALLY deserves respect.

From the Twitter quotes I read, it seems he said "he understands this is Yoshiki's side project". But then I don't understand why he calls it X Japan. Interesting.



Offline LEMONedMe

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Reply #189 on: July 17, 2018, 05:03:44 PM

From the Twitter quotes I read, it seems he said "he understands this is Yoshiki's side project". But then I don't understand why he calls it X Japan. Interesting.
Maybe after what he said before, he feels he better say something like this?

Sometimes our tears blinded the love
We lost out dreams along the way
But I never thought you'd trade your soul to the fates
Never thought you'd leave me alone


Offline axlroseX

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Reply #190 on: July 17, 2018, 05:06:17 PM
Someone on a GNR board told me Yoshiki wont work with Toshi because Toshi wants more money... I did not prompt the conversation so this person doesnt seen like they would make it up

REALLY hoping this is untrue, waiting for more info...



Offline pt_93

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Reply #191 on: July 17, 2018, 05:18:37 PM
Someone on a GNR board told me Yoshiki wont work with Toshi because Toshi wants more money... I did not prompt the conversation so this person doesnt seen like they would make it up

REALLY hoping this is untrue, waiting for more info...

A japanese tabloid said that this was the reason why X Japan didn’t play Lunatic Fest, and Toshi said on Toshi Channel that this wasn’t true and that X Japan was schedule to play but “the promoters and X Japan side” (whatever that means) decided they wouldnt appear as a band. He also sued the tabloid for spreading fake rumors, he was VERY upset in that Toshi Channel, he even used bad words to describe them.

Also, X Japan is scheduled to appear on the Dream Festival in August or September. So...



Offline axlroseX

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Reply #192 on: July 17, 2018, 05:23:14 PM
That makes me feel a little better. Another rift in between Yoshiki and Toshi would be horrible



Offline pt_93

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Reply #193 on: July 17, 2018, 05:26:26 PM
The same article said he wanted more money because h has been in many TV shows lately blabla and Toshi said he just likes making fun of himself because he likes making people laugh and he sees nothing wrong with that. He was very upset. There are actual videos of this on instagram, since you all like videos.



Offline axlroseX

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Reply #194 on: July 18, 2018, 12:17:54 AM
X did "make it" in the west. I'm a 26 year old from Michigan who has loved this band for more than a decade. There are thousands of fans like me all over the world. They wont ever headline American arenas or have a single top the charts, but who cares? They gained thpusamds of diehard fans instead of being a flash in the pan. That is making it, and I hope Yoshiki realizes that.

Where there is smoke, there is fire. Its clear that SOMETHING is amiss internally between Yoshiki and Toshi. The Lunatic festival performance, the photo in the studio with everyone but Toshi, the tabloid rumors, and now this new "X Japan" (but not really) song fiasco. I just hope things get back on track and they put out the stupid album just to get it off their backs.



Offline returner

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Reply #195 on: July 18, 2018, 02:49:02 AM
X did "make it" in the west. I'm a 26 year old from Michigan who has loved this band for more than a decade. There are thousands of fans like me all over the world. They wont ever headline American arenas or have a single top the charts, but who cares? They gained thpusamds of diehard fans instead of being a flash in the pan. That is making it, and I hope Yoshiki realizes that.

Where there is smoke, there is fire. Its clear that SOMETHING is amiss internally between Yoshiki and Toshi. The Lunatic festival performance, the photo in the studio with everyone but Toshi, the tabloid rumors, and now this new "X Japan" (but not really) song fiasco. I just hope things get back on track and they put out the stupid album just to get it off their backs.

I believe X has made it too but also kind of not... yes but no. They have fans all over but not everyone (most people) knows them. Yoshiki wants X to explode and honestly, I think that would be awesome too.

1. The photo of X recording was for guitar/bass. Toshi had no reason to be there. Recording is mmindnumbingly boring when you have nothing to do so Of course he would skip that.

2. Japanese tabloids are the worst! Toshi himself even addressed those reports as false and was really upset with them so why say it is something that it isn't when the member himself has set it straight for us...?

3. It's not a fiasco. The rest of the band has been recording and Toshi spoke honestly about his feelings. X Japan is getting their own full-band version of it, too.

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline Joker

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Reply #196 on: July 18, 2018, 03:15:45 AM
3. It's not a fiasco. The rest of the band has been recording and Toshi spoke honestly about his feelings. X Japan is getting their own full-band version of it, too.

It's a fiasco as they tought it would be amazing and most fans are disappointed (and even annoyed, as I am). Just follow X, Toshi and Yoshiki social media. There is a lot of angry fans.
And nobody said that there will be a full band version of this song. Yoshiki posted a photo saying "recording" but could be an old photo, or any other song, as he said that Rockstar, for example, isn't finished yet.



Offline lakeisle

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Reply #197 on: July 18, 2018, 04:05:26 AM
I think the translation is subtly different in nuance.
 
<残念> is used as a meaning of "That's too bad", "That's a shame", "That's unfortunate".

A : The match was postponed due to the heavy rain.
B : That's too bad. (残念)

That's why "Personally, I feel disappointed" seems to be slightly exaggerated. I'm not an English speaker and not able to explain well, but it's different anyway. And what is behind the sentence is more important. Because けれども means that something should be added after it due to the nature of Japanese sentence structure. And the following sentence is the key.

Sentences taken out of context and without actually seeing the person saying it can be dangerous.

This. I agree. I'm not defending Yoshiki tho. TBH, they don't look like a band to me, Yoshiki is a boss, other members are employees, Yoshiki orders, other members obey, that's what I felt about the band many times. So it is not strange that this happened. 

I think I'm becoming insensitive to Yoshiki's stimulation little by little.

And thank you for the information. I didn't know Toshi sued the tabloid. Actually I do not lurk Japanese fan threads anymore. There are too many rumors and it's unhealthy. I'm glad that
 the conflict between Yoshiki and Toshi is groundless.




Offline sasasama

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Reply #198 on: July 18, 2018, 08:13:31 AM
I think the translation is subtly different in nuance.
 
<残念> is used as a meaning of "That's too bad", "That's a shame", "That's unfortunate".

A : The match was postponed due to the heavy rain.
B : That's too bad. (残念)

That's why "Personally, I feel disappointed" seems to be slightly exaggerated. I'm not an English speaker and not able to explain well, but it's different anyway. And what is behind the sentence is more important. Because けれども means that something should be added after it due to the nature of Japanese sentence structure. And the following sentence is the key.

Sentences taken out of context and without actually seeing the person saying it can be dangerous.

This. I agree. I'm not defending Yoshiki tho. TBH, they don't look like a band to me, Yoshiki is a boss, other members are employees, Yoshiki orders, other members obey, that's what I felt about the band many times. So it is not strange that this happened. 

I think I'm becoming insensitive to Yoshiki's stimulation little by little.

And thank you for the information. I didn't know Toshi sued the tabloid. Actually I do not lurk Japanese fan threads anymore. There are too many rumors and it's unhealthy. I'm glad that
 the conflict between Yoshiki and Toshi is groundless.

But isn't they use "残念" when they wanna express their disappointmen? It's totally an innocent question because maybe I don't feel the "real meaning" of the word. Let's translate it to "It's too bad". Isn't it still means that he's not happy about it? I'm not stating anything because we sill don't have the footage, I'm just asking about this sentence because it's interesting.

Edit: for example in hungarian i would translate it, "olyan kár". Teemeah can help me withw those one, haha. And "olyan kár", is totally for something to express disappointmen. I don't know...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 08:22:25 AM by sasasama »



Teemeah

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Reply #199 on: July 18, 2018, 08:33:35 AM
I think the translation is subtly different in nuance.
 
<残念> is used as a meaning of "That's too bad", "That's a shame", "That's unfortunate".

A : The match was postponed due to the heavy rain.
B : That's too bad. (残念)

That's why "Personally, I feel disappointed" seems to be slightly exaggerated. I'm not an English speaker and not able to explain well, but it's different anyway. And what is behind the sentence is more important. Because けれども means that something should be added after it due to the nature of Japanese sentence structure. And the following sentence is the key.

Sentences taken out of context and without actually seeing the person saying it can be dangerous.

This. I agree. I'm not defending Yoshiki tho. TBH, they don't look like a band to me, Yoshiki is a boss, other members are employees, Yoshiki orders, other members obey, that's what I felt about the band many times. So it is not strange that this happened. 

I think I'm becoming insensitive to Yoshiki's stimulation little by little.

And thank you for the information. I didn't know Toshi sued the tabloid. Actually I do not lurk Japanese fan threads anymore. There are too many rumors and it's unhealthy. I'm glad that
 the conflict between Yoshiki and Toshi is groundless.

But isn't they use "残念" when they wanna express their disappointmen? It's totally an innocent question because maybe I don't feel the "real meaning" of the word. Let's translate it to "It's too bad". Isn't it still means that he's not happy about it? I'm not stating anything because we sill don't have the footage, I'm just asking about this sentence because it's interesting.

Edit: for example in hungarian i would translate it, "olyan kár". Teemeah can help me withw those one, haha. And "olyan kár", is totally for something to express disappointmen. I don't know...

You can express disappointment but "olyan kár" which roughly translates to "so unfortunate [that this happened]" or "it's a pity" doesn't mean you "feel personally disappointed". The latter is a very strong expression. It is also important what he applies this to: is is unfortunate that hyde sings in the song? is it unfortunate that yoshiki made such a decision alone? or is it unfortunate that he cannot help the fans' anger and disappointment? Reading the above interpretations, I really get the feeling that we should not hype ourselves up over these things because translating Japanese is very difficult, especially for expressions of emotion. 3 translators, 3 different interpretations of the level of emotion in the same sentence... :)

Edit: maybe this sentence will clear up what I mean: "It's a pity you didn't come to the party, it was so good" -- it doesn't mean "I am personally disappointed you didn't come to the party".
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 10:10:42 AM by Teemeah »



Offline sasasama

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Reply #200 on: July 18, 2018, 02:02:53 PM
GUYS WE FOUND THE FOOTAGE.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlVxJFXnblH/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1b1isny4tf92a

He said, he knows a lot of people are worried about this Hyde thing. He said, he can't tell the exact reasons, but Yoshiki choose him. He said, from the very beginning, he decides everything about X Japan. He said to be honest, he felt a little bit bummed about it, but this is Yoshiki's project, and that's that. He also said, he's sorry he couldn't give a straightforward answer. That's it guys. He doesn't seem too sad, thankfully.



Offline nb

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Reply #201 on: July 18, 2018, 02:11:05 PM
awwww, thank you! <3

but it's a bit sad, isn't it? He sees X Japan as a Yoshiki only project. I mean, yes, he is the bandleader, but i thought Toshi would see himself as part of the band. It honestly sounds like he's only an employee...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 02:13:15 PM by nb »


positively unsure。


Offline sasasama

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Reply #202 on: July 18, 2018, 02:15:33 PM
awwww, thank you! <3

but it's a bit sad, isn't it? He sees X Japan as a Yoshiki only project. I mean, yes, he is the bandleader, but i thought Toshi would see himself as part of the band. It honestly sounds like he's only an employee...

No! He doesn't see X Japan as Yoshiki's project. He meant "Red Swan" is his project. He only said he decides everything about the band from the very start and that's it.



Offline nb

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Reply #203 on: July 18, 2018, 02:24:21 PM
Ah, thanks for clearing that up =)


positively unsure。


Teemeah

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Reply #204 on: July 18, 2018, 03:25:09 PM
yeah, it's more clear now, thank you sasasama. and good to see the footage. He doesn't seem too bothered by it. and he is right, Yoshiki has always made decisions for the band (going for a US album was also his idea back then, as was recording in LA, he even went as far as personally dropping demos to stores back in the indie days. :) )



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Reply #205 on: July 18, 2018, 08:17:35 PM
GUYS WE FOUND THE FOOTAGE.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlVxJFXnblH/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1b1isny4tf92a

He said, he knows a lot of people are worried about this Hyde thing. He said, he can't tell the exact reasons, but Yoshiki choose him. He said, from the very beginning, he decides everything about X Japan. He said to be honest, he felt a little bit bummed about it, but this is Yoshiki's project, and that's that. He also said, he's sorry he couldn't give a straightforward answer. That's it guys. He doesn't seem too sad, thankfully.

Thank you, that's great to hear.

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


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Reply #206 on: July 18, 2018, 10:59:06 PM
TBH, they don't look like a band to me, Yoshiki is a boss, other members are employees, Yoshiki orders, other members obey, that's what I felt about the band many times.

It looks like this since the reunion. For someone who knew X when they were still a band, and not Yoshiki's ego-boost-tool, each time he does stuff like this is a new disappointment.



Offline axlroseX

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Reply #207 on: July 19, 2018, 12:53:22 AM
Apparently, Yoshiki is making an announcement regarding what is going down tomorrow.

I think it is clear something is wrong. Toshi is clearly disappointed, so no, that video was not a good thing



Offline lakeisle

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Reply #208 on: July 19, 2018, 02:07:10 AM

Edit: maybe this sentence will clear up what I mean: "It's a pity you didn't come to the party, it was so good" -- it doesn't mean "I am personally disappointed you didn't come to the party".

Thank you for clearing it up. You are perfectly right, "It's a pity" seems to be the closest sentence for 残念. "I feel disappointed" implies that somebody did something wrong, but the word 残念 is not necessarily used like that.

Nevertheless, watching the video sasasama linked, it is obvious that Toshi is disappointed and upset even though he is smiling and saying "Don't worry".

Thank you for the link, sasasama. Now I can see how Toshi used the word as a way of expressing his disappointment.



Offline sasasama

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Reply #209 on: July 19, 2018, 07:05:31 AM
GUYS WE FOUND THE FOOTAGE.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BlVxJFXnblH/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1b1isny4tf92a

He said, he knows a lot of people are worried about this Hyde thing. He said, he can't tell the exact reasons, but Yoshiki choose him. He said, from the very beginning, he decides everything about X Japan. He said to be honest, he felt a little bit bummed about it, but this is Yoshiki's project, and that's that. He also said, he's sorry he couldn't give a straightforward answer. That's it guys. He doesn't seem too sad, thankfully.

Thank you, that's great to hear.

I don't understand why that is a great thing. He said he was bummed, he doesn't seem too sad, but clearly not happy. And trying to solve everything with showing his new cute t-shirt like... As lakeisle said, there's real disappointment behind that smile, and he just accepted what happened because what he can do when "Yoshiki is the person who decides everything for decades".
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 07:07:26 AM by sasasama »