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Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki

Feudal · 18470

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Offline Feudal

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on: October 18, 2016, 01:21:04 AM
After watching the WeAreX doc, I can't get over how frustrating the part was where Yoshiki said he cannot say why Taiji was fired. The interviewer even said, "not even after all of this time?" and Yoshiki responds, "I just can't", and prior to that, "He did something he should not have done".

It's clear that Taiji was a strong force in the band and challenged Yoshiki a lot and his ideas were in a different direction. I'd like to know what everyone here speculates on why he was let go. My best guess is that he tried to undermine Yoshiki and almost pull a coup in the band, not by necessarily killing him, but by trying to persuade the others to either leave and start a new band or split them up. Yoshiki said in the doc, "if i didn't fire him, X was over".

It seems kind of silly that even after all this time he still refuses to talk about it but knowing how Japanese society emphasizes honour, perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 03:18:46 AM by Feudal »



Offline returner

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Reply #1 on: October 18, 2016, 04:03:14 AM
I've thought about it a lot but obviously we'll never really know. And any of us who can't speak Japanese (who can't look at the forums over there) will be that much more out of the loop since J-fans probably have more information to work with.

The documentary-edit also cut out some interviews with Pata and Toshi about the subject matter, where the conflict between them was brought up. But they both said it only made the band better because it made them each more competitive to be the best.

Whatever happened was something bad enough for not even Taiji to talk about in his autobiography. If he tried to pull a coup... well, wouldn't that have made for a better story? "I really couldn't stand the guy, so I tried to convince the members to leave him. In the end it was me to go," type thing. Taiji did say that he thought of Yoshiki as a "hard to like" man so he wasn't afraid to let his feelings be known about it. So whatever happened, it definitely reflected badly on Taiji enough to where no one, including him, spoke about it. I also don't think Yoshiki would have had trouble saying, "he divided the members too much, trying to seek control of the band, so I had to let him go."

The way they don't talk about it makes it sound like something illegal happened. Maybe they got into blows and a weapon was pulled or something. But I doubt Yoshiki would have gone alone with him to a bar to fire him and then proceed to get in another fight if that had happened.

Also, we have to take into account that Yoshiki did invite Taiji back to perform with X in 2010. Whatever it was WAS something that they eventually forgave him for. So to me that says it could be something completely unrelated to the music business that would have just completely character-assassinated the band. They had to distance themselves from Taiji as a person either by dissolving the band or kicking him out.


We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline nb

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Reply #2 on: October 18, 2016, 11:56:57 AM
(...) perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?

rape.


positively unsure。


Offline returner

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Reply #3 on: October 18, 2016, 01:34:38 PM
(...) perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?

rape.

What makes you say that? Are there rumors about it in Japan? That's a really serious allegation so we at least need some explanation on why you say so.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2016, 01:42:08 PM by returner »

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline nb

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Reply #4 on: October 18, 2016, 04:05:55 PM
(...) perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?

rape.

What makes you say that? Are there rumors about it in Japan? That's a really serious allegation so we at least need some explanation on why you say so.

Because this is definitely a dealbreaker and something you won't talk about also after this amount of years


(...)

The way they don't talk about it makes it sound like something illegal happened. Maybe they got into blows and a weapon was pulled or something.

(...)

As you said... maybe/could be... supposition, you know?  :)
Don't want to say "he raped someone!", just want to make a suggestion.


positively unsure。


Offline Feudal

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Reply #5 on: October 18, 2016, 04:26:28 PM
I'm torn on what to theorize because if it's something in the realm of trying to break up the band, steal members, take more power, Yoshiki should be able to talk about that. "He was trying to break up our band, etc"...I don't see why that would be such a taboo topic. I don't know if a weapon was involved because he mentioned them getting into a fist fight at the bar AFTER he told him he's fired.

Unless Taiji did something that would jeopardize his status in the band (committed a crime and could be facing jail time) then I don't know what else it could be. I guess one would have to do some major, major digging to research if Taiji was ever related to a crime.



Offline Riot

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Reply #6 on: October 18, 2016, 06:35:15 PM
Most bands that I know of have only a couple of rules that, if you break them, will get you fired. They're usually something like

1. don't fuck your band mate's girlfriend/boyfriend,
2. Don't bring illegal substances to the band (ie. don't deal drugs while you're in the band)

Also, several combinations of the above might get you fired... (don't do drugs with your band mate's girlfriend while you're supposed to be working). I've witnessed a couple of these scenarios and the results can be nasty.

Or it could be something totally different, like talking behind someone's back about something very important. Who knows. They clearly don't want to talk about it, and I'm okay with that, especially since Taiji is gone, and we'll never get to hear his side of the story.



Offline AsukaMiyu

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Reply #7 on: October 18, 2016, 08:34:13 PM
I think the "most popular rumour" about Taiji being fired is because of drug issues of some kind. If you keep in mind that in Japan drugs were/are a much bigger 'issue' compared to the west, it would seem logical that - even while he still can't talk about it - yoshiki forgave him for what happened back then...and invited him to that concert.

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Offline nb

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Reply #8 on: October 18, 2016, 08:41:43 PM
I think the "most popular rumour" about Taiji being fired is because of drug issues of some kind. If you keep in mind that in Japan drugs were/are a much bigger 'issue' compared to the west, it would seem logical that - even while he still can't talk about it - yoshiki forgave him for what happened back then...and invited him to that concert.

agreed.
An example for this is the first drummer from L'arc en ciel, Sakura. He had to leave the band after he was arrested for heroin possession.


positively unsure。


Offline Kasumi

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Reply #9 on: October 29, 2016, 06:35:55 PM
I think the "most popular rumour" about Taiji being fired is because of drug issues of some kind. If you keep in mind that in Japan drugs were/are a much bigger 'issue' compared to the west, it would seem logical that - even while he still can't talk about it - yoshiki forgave him for what happened back then...and invited him to that concert.

This sounds like the most logical thing to me. But we can really only speculate... and in the end it was probably something completely different.

It was intresting to hear how Taiji reacted to being fired. He started a fight with Yoshiki and both cried in the end. :( I wonder what would have happened to X if he had stayed.

While I'm away, read this line again...


Teemeah

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Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 04:19:36 PM
I'm not sure but could he have violated the no drugs rule? OK, all of them were drinking crazy but Yoshiki said they had a no drugs rule. And juding by Taiji's later images and stories and his violent outbursts on that plane that led to his death... could he have been into drugs? And that's why Yoshiki decided to fire him? I mean if it had been really really really unreasonable, hide, of all people, would have raised his voice at least.



Offline nb

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Reply #11 on: April 10, 2017, 09:19:17 PM
Drugs are not the reason for his death. There are many roumors about him dying, but no drugs :)


positively unsure。


Teemeah

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Reply #12 on: April 11, 2017, 12:56:19 PM
Drugs are not the reason for his death. There are many roumors about him dying, but no drugs :)

I didn't mean that drugs killed him, sorry for the poorly formulated sentence. I meant that the violent outbursts could have maybe been an indication of drug abuse, or a history of such.



Offline Joker

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Reply #13 on: April 13, 2017, 02:26:30 AM
(committed a crime and could be facing jail time)

Which he did. I remember reading on his biography (or Yoshiki's, but surely one of them) that he got into some fights during Rose & Blood Tour and was arrested twice.

I think it was something related to drugs, which may have harmed even more the already difficult relationship which he was having with the other members.



Offline Aries

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Reply #14 on: June 25, 2017, 12:36:36 PM

Which he did. I remember reading on his biography (or Yoshiki's, but surely one of them) that he got into some fights during Rose & Blood Tour and was arrested twice.

I think it was something related to drugs, which may have harmed even more the already difficult relationship which he was having with the other members.
You can't blame someone using drugs by some suggestion. Taiji just had bigmouth, that's all, but not because he had something against other members and Yoshiki, X was everything for him, they even had to sell their stuff at the beginning to pay for their first concerts and instruments. He wanted band to be perfect, and yes, was a hot head. It doesn't make him drugger.


Teemeah

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Reply #15 on: June 25, 2017, 04:36:38 PM
Nobody but members know the truth of why he was fired and clearly, they don't want to speak about it. Not just Yoshiki, none of the other members ever opened their mouths about it. We can speculate as much as we want but we won't know the truth unless the members themselves open up (and say the truth). And drugs are not uncommon in the celebrity world, just like alcoholism is not uncommon, either. It could be anything that triggered his sacking. They made up in 2010, so let's leave it at that.



Offline Aries

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Reply #16 on: June 25, 2017, 05:01:23 PM
I am not speculating, I am making conclusion of what I read and see myself: concerts, backstage, etc.
Person being in a rock band doesn't make him drugger or alcohol addicted by presumption. This forum have very strict rules about hard language between people registered here, but what about people speaking for X members? It is you speculating now without any proof Taiji or any other member used something. In that case we easy can say Yoshiki is a drugger because his childhood was a hell and he lost two friends, I am not saying a word about his physical health. Am I right?



Offline returner

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Reply #17 on: June 28, 2017, 12:25:11 AM
You are both right. All we know for sure is, "he did something he should not have done." That's according to Yoshiki in the We Are X documentary.

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline Aries

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Reply #18 on: June 28, 2017, 11:56:02 AM
Well that makes me think why he didn't fired Hide. You know his tough temper, breaking things, fight with people, stuck his fingers in their nose  ;D But I have no doubts Yoshiki loved Taiji and it wasn't easy decision for him. Or I wish to believe in this.


Offline Matthias

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Reply #19 on: June 30, 2017, 08:05:04 AM
There also seems to have been quiet some tension between hide and Taiji:

Taiji being fired was eventually brought about by Hide. He told Yoshiki “not one more day can I work with Taiji”. Yoshiki claims to have attempted to keep the band together but eventually found Taiji’s “difficult and reckless behaviour” too much, and fired him.

Source



Teemeah

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Reply #20 on: June 30, 2017, 08:30:38 AM
We will never know. That's a claim from Yoshiki's biography, which may or may not be entirely a true story. Taiji claimed another thing in his autobio, which also may or may not be entirely true. I think everyone has been in situations that were unpleasant and tried to defend themselves by not telling the truth entirely, because it would have made people angry or disappointed. X members are also human beings, there is no 100% surety that the person responsible for the firing doesn't try to defend himself and his decision - or that the person making the "unforgivable mistake" doesn't try to make himself look better because you know, it hurts to admit you did something.

What I'm trying to say is that we won't know the real reason. Taiji is gone, and Yoshiki is unwilling to speak. Whether to protect his band, Taiji's reputation or his own ass, we don't know. Probably we will never know. In these kind of situtation both parties can feel that they were the one in the right and other in the wrong. Everyone has their own personal truths they believe in. Taiji could have felt that he was sacked unreasonably, and Yoshiki could have felt that he had no choice but to do it. Whether hide really had anything to do with Taiji's departure, we don't know. If you watch the last concert with Taiji, all of them are pretty sad at the end.

I'm sure it was not an easy thing but people sometimes don't get along. You can quarrel with lifelong friends, too. You can lose lifelong friends too, in a heated quarrel, even if you like/used to like them. It also happens that people change for the worse. That fame changes them for the worse. We can just guess, because neither of us know these people's REAL personalites, REAL thoughts and REAL behind the scenes behaviour when there are no fans and no cameras around.



Offline Aries

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Reply #21 on: July 01, 2017, 08:39:02 PM
There also seems to have been quiet some tension between hide and Taiji:

Taiji being fired was eventually brought about by Hide. He told Yoshiki “not one more day can I work with Taiji”. Yoshiki claims to have attempted to keep the band together but eventually found Taiji’s “difficult and reckless behaviour” too much, and fired him.

Source

In that I strongly doubt. Hide cried when Taiji left, my bad, when he was made to leave. From all members Hide and Taiji were like twins, there was something between them that actually made them one of the best team I've ever seen. You can listen this in their music, and of course the difference when Taiji was fired and Hide left a little after that. I don't know if his aparting have something together, maybe he too didn't want Yoshiki to tell them how to make their music anymore. Artist more than anybody needs to be free, if someone tells you how to play it's not art anymore.

Anyway, "they said", "I heard", "my friend told me that he read" are just nothing more than rumors. I cannot believe Hide was such an idiot to ask Yoshiki behind Taiji's back for his dismissal. This is against everything I know about this guy.

After all, Yoshiki loved Taiji and asked him to rejoin years after that, and in his autobiography Taiji says he was pissed off but he never blamed Yohiki. We are just bystanders, we never been in their situation, working together on the same project, sacrifising personal life, free time and health for the band. I think that's the reason Yoshiki is so jelaous about X, it's his child, his product and his life. I also would like to quote Taiji, who said: "To me, X had to be perfect. If nobody pointed out the shortcomings, I didn’t think we would be able to rise to the top. That was my duty. Yoshiki and I frequently collided and there was no forgiveness from the other members.
That’s why I was disliked by the other members, and I was feared by the staff like a human bomb. Even so, everything around me had seemed fine.
The way I behaved was all caused by the fact that I really loved X."


It seems he wanted X to be their masterpiece, as Yoshiki, as Hide... And I understand him, I am kinda like him. I can burst, scream, fight and break things, and ten minutes later I will not even remember about that. I will do my work while other people around me will be super offended and afraid to walk near me. Taiji wan't dangerous or rude, he was just concern for the band. And honest, painfully honest, which is not something everybody would like to see. People often prefer to smile and pretend than hear/tell the truth. Truth is something that hurts.


Offline xjapanboi

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Reply #22 on: July 31, 2017, 11:40:04 PM
I have always thought that the cause of the break up was because Taiji was against Yoshiki for changing the band's musical direction from heavy metal to more pop rock and ballad oriented.that's what i had read in the past decade. but now that Yoshiki is claiming its something much more unforgivable. my guess would also be either drug or trying to steal the members forming a new band. i think possibility 1 is more likely. he did look like someone(personality)who would do drug
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 12:08:13 AM by xjapanboi »



Offline xjapanboi

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Reply #23 on: July 31, 2017, 11:47:16 PM
I have always thought that the cause of the break up was because Taiji was against Yoshiki for changing the band's musical direction from heavy metal to more pop rock and ballad oriented.that's what i had read in the past decade. but now that Yoshiki is claiming its something much more unforgivable. my guess would also be either drug or trying to steal the members forming a new band. i think possibility 1 is more likely. he did look like someone who would do drug

where did you read about Yoshiki asked Taji to rejoin for years?  what about Heath?



Offline matsumoto

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Reply #24 on: August 03, 2017, 03:33:50 PM
I'm gonna go with a mix of salary differences, music direction differences and both Taiji and Yoshiki having bitchy personalities.

Yoshiki doesn't look like the kind of guy who likes being told what to do, and neither does Taiji. Yoshiki has mentioned that he appreciated Hide because Hide was rather wild, but still respected him and let him have the last word. Taiji probably didn't.

I don't know if Hide was the one who asked Yoshiki to fire him, though. They even got matching tattoos at one point. But hey, you can fight like an animal with your BFF, of all people, if they piss you off.

Anyway, it's a shame he's gone. What a great rockstar that guy was.

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Offline Ulquiorra4th

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Reply #25 on: August 04, 2017, 02:59:18 PM
Since Yoshiki said Taiji 'did something' bad rather than 'said something' bad it sounds like something Taiji physically did something, we know that the biggest and main problem between the two and what they clashed over most was musical differences, the more ballad focused direction Yoshiki was starting to take the band into.

I'm just imagining that if Taiji did get overly obsessed with everything being perfect about the band, and was just at his wits end (herherher) with Yoshiki and what he was doing with the new songs, not just the new songs they'd been performing live for a year or two at that point, but probably new songs only he and the other band members had heard in studio. I wonder if Taiji (before I say this, I'm obviously not trying to say Taiji was a bad person, just that lots of people do stupid things when particularly angry) in a moment of real frustration, changed some of the tracks in studio without permission, maybe he secretly recorded heavier guitar/bass parts, or even deleted recordings Yoshiki had done and recorded new guitar bits over vocal and drum tracks.

I'm just coming up with a theory like this partially based off stories from other bands in the past, it would absolutly get you fired from a band for 'doing something' without being physical violence, and a situation Yoshiki and Taiji both regretted and forgave each other later. As for Yoshiki still not wanting to say what Taiji did, it could be that he doesn't want to hurt Taijis reputation with fans in any way, and now that he's gone after they had that great reunion in 2010 he doesn't want to drag up that past too much in his own mind either, since they became friends again.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 03:14:02 PM by Ulquiorra4th »



Teemeah

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Reply #26 on: August 04, 2017, 03:08:50 PM
I doubt he could do that since at the time Yoshiki owned the studio they did the recording in and supervised every little aspect. I doubt his engineers would let Taiji change tracks without notifying the boss. :) It is much more probable that Taiji could have done something related to drugs or physical violence of some sort that was not tolerated. I'm pretty sure they all brawled from time to time, but there are limits/severity to everything. "Did" can indicate anything, even speaking :) It's also possible that simpy they quarreled too much and Yoshiki had enough of him trying to tell him what to do with  his own songs. Or maybe he demanded more authority, to have more of his songs featured and Yoshiki didn't allow it and they argued. We will never know....
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 03:22:49 PM by Teemeah »



Offline xjapanboi

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Reply #27 on: August 04, 2017, 06:15:59 PM
Since Yoshiki said Taiji 'did something' bad rather than 'said something' bad it sounds like something Taiji physically did something, we know that the biggest and main problem between the two and what they clashed over most was musical differences, the more ballad focused direction Yoshiki was starting to take the band into.

I'm just imagining that if Taiji did get overly obsessed with everything being perfect about the band, and was just at his wits end (herherher) with Yoshiki and what he was doing with the new songs, not just the new songs they'd been performing live for a year or two at that point, but probably new songs only he and the other band members had heard in studio. I wonder if Taiji (before I say this, I'm obviously not trying to say Taiji was a bad person, just that lots of people do stupid things when particularly angry) in a moment of real frustration, changed some of the tracks in studio without permission, maybe he secretly recorded heavier guitar/bass parts, or even deleted recordings Yoshiki had done and recorded new guitar bits over vocal and drum tracks.

I'm just coming up with a theory like this partially based off stories from other bands in the past, it would absolutly get you fired from a band for 'doing something' without being physical violence, and a situation Yoshiki and Taiji both regretted and forgave each other later. As for Yoshiki still not wanting to say what Taiji did, it could be that he doesn't want to hurt Taijis reputation with fans in any way, and now that he's gone after they had that great reunion in 2010 he doesn't want to drag up that past too much in his own mind either, since they became friends again.

i still think it doesnt justify for Yoshiki not to talk about it. it has to be something very serious that he cannot talk about it. i still believe it had drug using involved. based on my years of observation and experience with japanese culture. the artist can come across as very wicked for their image, use very vulgar English language to look cool. but drug is a very taboo thing in Japan. even weed is considered big crime in Japan. being exposed  using drug  can completely ruin their careers. despite your image is associated with heavy metal. punk. or rap. it doesnt help. their companies will drop them



Offline xjapanboi

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Reply #28 on: August 04, 2017, 06:19:48 PM
I doubt he could do that since at the time Yoshiki owned the studio they did the recording in and supervised every little aspect. I doubt his engineers would let Taiji change tracks without notifying the boss. :) It is much more probable that Taiji could have done something related to drugs or physical violence of some sort that was not tolerated. I'm pretty sure they all brawled from time to time, but there are limits/severity to everything. "Did" can indicate anything, even speaking :) It's also possible that simpy they quarreled too much and Yoshiki had enough of him trying to tell him what to do with  his own songs. Or maybe he demanded more authority, to have more of his songs featured and Yoshiki didn't allow it and they argued. We will never know....

yeah....it sounds like he did something thats beyond personal to me.....he says it could result the band breaking up....i think it was more than just personal business between them...



Offline matsumoto

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Reply #29 on: August 04, 2017, 08:34:11 PM
Yup, but there are a million reasons that could make a 'simple' reason embarassing enough to say in a documentary. "He quit because I was making more than thrice his salary and I'm still making a lot more than the other guys" is embarassing enough. I would say I don't want to talk about it as well.

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