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Headwax suing Yoshiki for using hide's image in concerts?

Sander · 33855

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Offline Sander

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Reply #30 on: August 16, 2010, 10:52:08 AM
I'm a hide fan. Really. But just for being a hide fan, I think that is REALLY disrespectful what X does to him.

I have a problem with they using hide to make more money like Yoshiki is doing, using hide on concerts just to please the hide fans and sell them even more hide stuff. 
Your case is that Yoshiki is earning tons of extra money by using hide playback in a few songs and showing him on the screen for maybe a few minutes max, from the whole concert. I disagree. I don't think there are more than a few fans who go to the concert only to see/hear hide. They don't earn anything "extra" by putting him up there. And most of hide's stuff (dolls, merch, etc) is sold by Headwax, those are the guys earning big bucks from this.

And as Yu~Kun pointed out, most US and European fans haven't seen X live yet (and at Lollapalooza the tribute was minimal), so for them (us) seeing hide on the big screen is a new thing. If some people 'spoiled' it for themselves by watching illegal rips then that's, well, their problem.


And yes, according to Asahi.com, they are suing SANKYO as well, for using hide's material, because, as I understand it, no official contract had been signed.

Apparently Yoshiki's JMA (Japanese Music Agency) signed a contract with Headwax in 2000 to use hide's images and JMA offered to renew the contract before the Nissan lives, since 10 years had passed (I guess the contract lasted 10 years then), but just before the concert said that they won't need to because they won't use hide's images, but in reality they were used during Kurenai and X.

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Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #31 on: August 16, 2010, 11:00:59 AM
Hypno, as it has already been pointed out, I also believe that Yoshiki does have the right to do that because the footage is taken from an X Japan live. Right? Is there any information concerning that?


I don't know, I just hate this. It makes me feel as if hide, an X Japan member who also has played his role in the band and shaped part of its image and music, is now considered by his own brother nothing more than an object of being sold in a market auction. It makes me believe that if Lady Gaga wants to use 5 hide holograms for her next concert in exhange for 100 bijilion dollars, she would have them.


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Offline Sander

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Reply #32 on: August 16, 2010, 11:15:24 AM
X Japan Fan Page (on MySpace) translated one of the articles:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=1004216542&blogId=538273223

Quote
The source is http://news.goo.ne.jp/article/nikkan/entertainment/p-et-tp0-100816-0007.html?fr=rk

This is summary.

HIDE's management "Headwax Organization" will sue Yoshiki's management
over prohibitation of use HIDE's rights of portrait.
 
According to people familiar with the matter, Yoshiki's management "Japan Music
Agency(JMA)" signed a contract of using HIDE's images with Headwax in 2000.
When shows @ Nissan on 14th and 15th August were confirmed, JMA asked Headwax
to re-sign because the contraction of using his images(contraction of booking)
was signed 10 years ago. But before the show, JMA told Headwax that they wouldn't
use HIDE's images. So the contraction felt apart. Actually HIDE's playing images were
used in "Kurenai" and "X" during the shows.

This trouble reaches to Pachinko machine "CR FEVER X JAPAN" which will be
brought to the market by SANKYO in September. According to HIDE's management,
they exchanged memorandums of using his images but images are used without
the execution of memorandums.

Headwax is preparing for suing against JMA and SANKYO for the unauthorized use
of HIDE's images. They will file a complaint within a few days.

*****************************************************
It's difficult to translate. If you have a question, please ask us.
XJFP

Read more: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=1004216542&blogId=538273223#ixzz0wlLFSYeZ


Yu~Kun, as far as I understood, Headwax does indeed own the right to all hide-related. Probably except for everything that hide signed off to Yoshiki/JMA/Sony/Atlantic whatever. So they shouldn't be able to use the recordings. But I guess the footage doesn't fall under that....

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Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #33 on: August 16, 2010, 11:20:42 AM
I really wonder what will become of this. I also wonder how most of the fans will react.


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Offline DopeHead

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Reply #34 on: August 16, 2010, 11:32:17 AM
I hope that it doesn´t affect their future plans for world tour.



Offline roseofpain84

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Reply #35 on: August 16, 2010, 11:37:37 AM
As far as the fans' reaction goes....at least the Japanese ones, I'm guessing they are not gonna be very happy about it. Nor are they gonna like what Headwax is doing that much.
That's what I think at least. Because there are so many people (especially in Japan) who believe that hide still is and shuld be a member of X Japan that I doubt they would react nicely to this.

We'll see though.
Also, I don't think it would affect the world tour plans.....
I suppose at most they might not be allowed to use hide's image at all.
Which will displease many people and make others glad.



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Offline anna_lepard

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Reply #36 on: August 16, 2010, 11:38:07 AM
let sit down have drink and let me think.

Hiroshi is nothing but a fat oversize money wolf. Who need to fill ?the Honda job application. and learn how to make money on his own. ?To me Hiroshi is a nice guy i met him twice. He is making ?money over his brother's death body. and that is not nice! and not fair! ?Would hide have want it this way? Only Hide friends family know. I think hide ?not have like this .

I already thought this was go happen becuase Hiroshi selling cd and poster and what else even jewerly line.
I have not much good to say about this. And i feel to ill for it. Since yesterday i have stomach cramp.

 ?
 


Offline Palma

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Reply #37 on: August 16, 2010, 01:44:53 PM
You know hide would not be the first musician earning more money after his death then while he was alive.
Same happened to Elvis....

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Offline denx

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Reply #38 on: August 16, 2010, 02:09:12 PM
no comment

Ex denxdenx


Offline Joker

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Reply #39 on: August 16, 2010, 03:32:12 PM
http://www.hide-city.com/information/index.html?id=1281953150

Seems we'll have some info from Headwax soon...



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #40 on: August 16, 2010, 04:37:47 PM
This is disgraceful.

How can Hiroshi condone this action? His fucking brother gave him a job, and in death paid for his lifestyle - and X Japan's popularity is, and always has been, paramount to this. He's biting the hand that feeds. What money grubbing bastard.



Offline XVikyX

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Reply #41 on: August 16, 2010, 04:38:39 PM
In my opinion not Yoshiki, nor the band need hide’s image\playback to earn money. Fans don't go at the shows for watching\listening to hide. Show me ANY fan who would deny attending the concert because the band stops including hide playback or showing him on screen.
It’s just kinda policy of the band. They want him to stay, be part of their scene life. For me it’s OK. What is NOT OK is that his brother acts like that…. At least for me it’s weird\disrespectful\disgusting. ‘Cause as far as I can see this is his principal source of earning. *correct me if Im wrong*

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. (c)


Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #42 on: August 16, 2010, 05:05:12 PM
Without X Japan's live performances and activity the only money Hide's estate is going to earn come from record royalties or merchandise.

Record sales are falling year on year, the LEMONed shop has always been extortionately priced, and, when X Japan aren't playing in Tokyo, usually very under-subscribed.

Hide's estate potentially have much to gain from X Japan's activities, but by taking this course of action they're biting off the hand that feeds. There's no way that Yoshiki will negotiate with these grave-diggers in the future after they sue him. What are Headwax realistic aiming to achieve from this court case? How much money do they realistically intend to get as a settlement from 2 X Japan concerts where Hide's image was used sparingly over the weekend? It's possible that they are just attempting to force Yoshiki into signing a new deal with them - but I highly doubt Yoshiki will be receptive to this kind of cut throat handling of business.

X Japan touring is the only realistic new form of income for Headwax, As yeah, Hide can't release music or tour anymore, he's dead.



Offline ElefeX

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Reply #43 on: August 16, 2010, 09:35:04 PM
It’s a bit of a joke isn’t it – Hiroshi is suing because of hide’s image being used during something hide loved (X concerts) yet is quite happy to stick hides name/image on books, keyrings, lighters, pencil sharpeners, slippers, umbrellas (sorry I dont have time to list all of the other crap that has been produced and is for sale in the LEMONed shop) that are just money making tools.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t fully agree with the use of hide playbacks during X lives, I think Sugizo should be able to play the full song, however, I thought the kurenai intro was a lovely touch and I wouldn’t mind if that was used in future (but only that really). I still think his guitar on stage is the perfect tribute to him.

I would understand if Hiroshi had not used hide/hide’s image as a commercial tool himself and then I could see why he would be upset at X using hide’s image during concerts however it really seems to me that Hiroshi is more upset because he is not getting money (anymore) from it and that saddens me. hide is/was his brother, not a cash cow.



Offline Menacia

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Reply #44 on: August 16, 2010, 10:00:24 PM
apparently hide is cash cow for him. If it really is true, then he hide shall come and haunt him in his dreams..... :P
anyways, those issues would make even more sense , considering the not releasing of any of the reunion and past lives, including the promised remaining two box sets (dahlia tour final and TLL).



Offline Ann1958

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Reply #45 on: August 16, 2010, 11:05:22 PM
All the members of X Japan were with hide great friends.
All the members suffered very much from his death, they all losed more than a band member, they losed a great and dear friend.
They don't gain money from hide. How can you say that?
It have cost Yoshiki/X Japan tons of time , money (the hide hologram from the reunite concerts),  and energy to be able to honor him like they wanted to do for the reunie by putting his riffs in their first reunite song (IV) and the great footage they did on Without you, because they wanted to try to have him with them like he would have liked himself so much. I don't believe he gained money from all that. The search for the right guitarriffs from hide and so further.

And you know what? A familymember from me went for 5 weeks in Japan this summer, I gave money for X Japan cd's or dvd's or video's, it was so much my wish to have some music from them straight from Japan. Well he did many many musicshops in Osaka and area, about 14 shops, but in every shop he found hide, hide, hide...and never he found X or X Japan. First I thought that he didn't have found the good shops, but he went several times with persons from there to musicshops: nothing from X Japan, full of music and other things from hide! It is not X Japan or Yoshiki selling the hide stuff!
So, don't tell me that X Japan or Yoshiki is getting rich from hide !!! I don't believe a word from that. For the firm of hide's brother, I don't know if it is or not in good financial health, but if it isn't , well then it must be that he cannot manage it. Because hide stuff is everywhere on sale!
X Japan are honouring hide with love, hide's brother is milking hide!!! Shit ugly laws from the musicindustry that makes that his brother can milking him like that.

And there are so hard hide fans overall, it is sick like they are. They were complaining hide was not on the posters for the Yokohama concert. There was such a hide fan on my facebook so complaining about it, (I don't remember what she all wrote, because she defriended me  ;D  )that I friendly replied to her how they loved hide and that hide always will stay in their heart and that hide will always be part of the band, but that she must understand how difficult it is for them to play with the hologram and for ToshI it must be difficult to sing with the -very beautiful- hide footage from the last life kurenai...I don't know what I wrote overall, but I was really comprehensive to her; but finished with saying that the band had to live today and not in the past, and that they had to go further etc...Waw, the answers that I got: hide was the bandleader, hide was the heart from X Japan, without hide I don't know anymore. I have not replied on that because it was all so hard, that I really didn't even wish to reply on it. But she defriended me LOL. But I can imagine there are lots of such hard hide fans. And they even never saw him, they even never knew him. How is it possible????

No, X Japan is honouring hide and his brother is milking him. I can't see love in all that commercial things they sell!!!
If they will continue to honour hide and how they will do it, let them do what they want to do. I am fine with it like they want to do or not to do.
And I am happy for Sugizo being from X Japan, expecially since I heard his violin skills!!!


EDIT: (don't find edit button): the only thing from X Japan my familymember saw in Osaka was about the Pachinko machine...
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 11:28:36 PM by Ann1958 »



Offline denx

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Reply #46 on: August 17, 2010, 02:34:41 AM
well said ann1958. its very true X Japan not makin any money from hide, they spend a lot of money to make hide hologram with the technology from germany (how much is it, i forgot) .ever since reunion, X Japan release nothing  except I.V single, not even releasing Hide stuff. and also Yoshiki already very rich, whats the point making money using Hide image? what i see : they spend a lot of money for honouring Hide

Ex denxdenx


Offline Lee

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Reply #47 on: August 18, 2010, 06:04:50 PM
From xradicaldreamers

"Hear Japan , a company sells That mp3 of Japanese bands, Replied To Our tweet with the lawsuit news, Saying this:

It's more about revenge because Yoshiki bankrupted their entire corporation with his antics."

https://twitter.com/HearJapan

I would like to quote this simply because this guy has some insight as to what's going on, where-as you're all making wild guesses.



Offline Palma

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Reply #48 on: August 18, 2010, 06:12:12 PM
So, what you are saying Lee is that revenge with the interest of financial gain does NOT equal money grabbing and exploitation ...?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 06:20:38 PM by Palma »

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Offline Ashemanu

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Reply #49 on: August 18, 2010, 06:13:24 PM
Which antics?



Offline Lee

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Reply #50 on: August 18, 2010, 06:40:45 PM
So, what you are saying Lee is that revenge with the interest of financial gain does NOT equal money grabbing and exploitation ...?

Where the hell did you infer that from? All I said was that I take the industry source's insight seriously.



Offline Palma

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Reply #51 on: August 18, 2010, 06:45:36 PM
So, what you are saying Lee is that revenge with the interest of financial gain does NOT equal money grabbing and exploitation ...?

Where the hell did you infer that from? All I said was that I take the industry source's insight seriously.

My, while rather sardonically expressed, point was that the speculations were really not that off the mark.

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Offline Ashemanu

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Reply #52 on: August 18, 2010, 06:46:29 PM
Yeah, but to me that insight does not sound very professional.



Offline Lee

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Reply #53 on: August 18, 2010, 06:47:42 PM
Yeah, but to me that insight does not sound very professional.

The truth isn't always "professional"



Offline Ashemanu

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Reply #54 on: August 18, 2010, 06:51:39 PM
If it comes from a company, it should be.



Offline Palma

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Reply #55 on: August 18, 2010, 06:56:44 PM
It is just an indsider's opinion a.k.a. hearsay.

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Offline Lee

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Reply #56 on: August 18, 2010, 07:04:09 PM
It is just an indsider's opinion a.k.a. hearsay.

And it carries a lot more weight then anyone's comments in here, which is ALL I meant when I quoted it.

If it comes from a company, it should be.

Well then start one, and conduct yourself how you believe you should.



Offline Sander

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Reply #57 on: August 18, 2010, 07:09:31 PM
Well can't really think of any way how Yoshiki/JMA could've caused financial hardships for Headwax - with bringing out hide's name even more than usual it should've been the opposite, his merchandise sales shold be increasing. Unless of course Headwax invested heavily in the World Tour attempts that were postponed - Asian, European, US and domestic (Osaka) lives. Still that's doubtful. So I'd really like to know how did Yoshiki cause the apparent bankruptcy...


And please stop quarreling about petty things. Yes the comment came from a company, hence it should be regarded with more weight than our wild guesses; yes it was rather unprofessional, specially in Japanese terms (if I have understood anything about how business in that country works...); yes it came by twitter which means it might be the sole opinion of their 'twitterboy'...

Right now the most info we have is from the newspaper articles and that is that the problem is about an apparent contract that ended and wasn't renewed, even thought it was supposed to. But there are probably plenty of details that we don't know so I would kindly ask you to keep to guessing but not blaming or flaming. Thanks!

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Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #58 on: August 18, 2010, 07:20:30 PM
From xradicaldreamers

"Hear Japan , a company sells That mp3 of Japanese bands, Replied To Our tweet with the lawsuit news, Saying this:

It's more about revenge because Yoshiki bankrupted their entire corporation with his antics."

https://twitter.com/HearJapan

I would like to quote this simply because this guy has some insight as to what's going on, where-as you're all making wild guesses.

Wait, they're saying Yoshiki bankrupted Headwax?

What crap is this? Headwax have had no involvement since the reunion, either financial or orchestrational (discounting the Hide memorial summit, which they hired X Japan to perform at) with either Yoshiki or X Japan.

Headwax have conducted their own business for years now on their own accord, if they're enduring any financial hardship then it can in no way be attributed to X Japan's activities. If anything, X Japan's resurgence has increased their business, not the opposite.

They're just money-grubbing. They want to cash in on X Japan because they're out of fresh product to put Hide's name on. They're just throwing the dummy out of the pram to either force Yoshiki into signing a new deal (thus making a potentially protracted court case magically disappear) or to generate themselves a little extra income.

I'm seriously impressed with Hiroshi, I never thought that there would be any more ways to drag Hide's name through the gutter. Maybe he saw that X Japan were just starting to get a little bit of stability and slowly phasing his brother's name out of the band, so felt inclined to do something stupid to get 'Hide' back into the Japanese tabloid headlines. After all, he should know better than most how lucrative that can be, the tills didn't stop constantly ringing until months after Hide died.



Offline Joker

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Reply #59 on: August 18, 2010, 09:22:45 PM
When hide was on screen for Kurenai the screams, shouts and excitement from the audience multiplied.

The INTRO for Kurenai is nice. The 'tobe tobe tobe' is nice.
Playbacks running while Sugizo should be playing is ridiculous. Why they need Sugizo if he can't play? Is just THIS question I want that someone answer. Why he is "less member" than the others? Why he can't do what he was hired to do?

People pay for live concerts expecting live concerts, not for hearing Last Live playbacks on a huge sound system.