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Confused about ''say anything''

Ashura Shadow · 8121

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Offline Ashura Shadow

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on: February 24, 2010, 12:51:02 PM
I was discussing the lyrics of Say Anything with a friend today... and the meaning of it is now giving me headaches xD

I always thought that when Toshi said 'say anything' it meant 'say nothing'.
But, literally, 'anything' is 'everything' right? So 'you say anything' means 'you say everything'?? Or is it you say anything = you're *not* saying anything = you say nothing?
Yoshiki's engrish is making me doubt my grammatical abilities.  ::)

I'm at my wits' end.


Offline obi325

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Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 02:24:19 PM
is't this more, whatever you say, just say something?



Offline Ashura Shadow

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Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 02:42:07 PM
is't this more, whatever you say, just say something?
It does make more sense... but still sounds weird to me, haha. Or maybe the weird part is the 'you'? Because when you hear 'you say anything' you're expecting something else to follow... like 'you say anything to/for/so that'...

Edit: here's the part that led me to believe it meant 'you say nothing' : you say anything / all I can hear is voice from dream
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 02:45:07 PM by Ashura Shadow »

I'm at my wits' end.


Offline Maverick

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Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 02:53:30 PM
I think it's like obi325 said: "Say something, no matter what, even when it hurts!" Though I can't explain the 'you' properly - I considered it just as a grammar mistake. Or it is 'You! Say anything!' But I'm sure it is meant that the person wishes that someone (a loved person) talks to him and the 'All I can hear is voice from dream' I always understood like 'I hear you saying something, but it is just a dream'

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Tanabata

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Reply #4 on: February 24, 2010, 03:07:45 PM
I LOVE this song.  It's my favourite karaoke X song (don't laugh).

However, I've never thought about it to that point.  I wonder if it's because I'm a native English speaker so I don't try hard to read into it.  Now I'm all confused.

Say anything could not mean say nothing.  Anything means that there is something (unless you say "not anything"...in which case you'll probably say "nothing").  Oh boy...

Now I'm thinking about what it actually means I've always understood it to mean say whatever you want (and you DO say whatever you want) even if it is hurtful.

As for the "voice from dream" what bugs me about that is there's no article ("a" or "the") or possessive pronoun ("my") or possessive noun (ie, "last night's dream").  I'm always impressed by the grammatical accuracy of X's English lyrics but that little one always bugs me.  To a native speaker (well, at least to me) it's clearly grammatically incorrect.

Anyway, if anyone wants to "Say Anything" about my post please do.  I could be way off. ;D

We are X!!!!!


Offline Ashura Shadow

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Reply #5 on: February 24, 2010, 03:15:28 PM
Well... I always thought 'All I can hear is [a] voice from [a] dream' meant that his loved one had disappeared, hence the only way he had to listen to their voice again was to dream... looks like we have a lot of different opinions about this song xD
But is it really correct in english to use 'say anything' to say 'just say something'? I don't think I've ever heard someone say 'say anything' in real life before... but I'm not that good in english. ^^"

Say anything could not mean say nothing.  Anything means that there is something (unless you say "not anything"...in which case you'll probably say "nothing").

Well it could be a mistranslation... If I look up anything in my dictionary, it says that anything can mean both everything and nothing. So someone wanting to say 'I'm doing nothing' could misunderstand the word and say 'I'm doing anything'. (I'm not sure I'm making myself clear here... but in a nutshell there are many languages where there's no difference between no and any, and I'm pretty much sure it's the same in Japanese)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 03:23:25 PM by Ashura Shadow »

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Offline Tanabata

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Reply #6 on: February 24, 2010, 03:37:37 PM
Ashura Shadow,

Now you've really got me thinking!  Perhaps only Yoshiki can solve the riddle.

Yes, someone might say "say anything" to mean "just say something". 

"Anything" could only mean nothing if it's used with a negative.  For example, "Do not do anything" means "Do nothing"  (depending on the context we would probably choose one over the other so whether or not we can say they have exactly the same nuance is another matter).  However, "anything" in itself is not "nothing".  It's in the positive, not the negative.

Am I making sense?

Faestian, where are you?  You are very good at expressing yourself so come and help me here ;D ;D ;D

We are X!!!!!


Offline Maverick

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Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 03:44:08 PM
@@ Now i'm lost lol

however, the initial line I like in this song very much and IMO explains from the context best what is meant is:

You Say Anything 傷つけ合う言葉でも Which I think means 'Say something even (i.e. no matter) if it hurts'

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Ann1958

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Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 03:47:10 PM
I always have interpreted: 'Say anything' by 'Say whatever you want, but say something...whatever what.



Offline ElefeX

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Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 04:17:20 PM
Yeah, I agree with obi325 and the other posters as I have always just thought of it as say anything, just say something.

I thought he was talking to someone who couldn’t respond but he just wants to hear them - no matter what they have to say, good or bad. The “You” is there as he is directing it at that person (sort of like an order) even though not directly speaking to the person and I think he remembers the person and what they sound like but for whatever reason cannot talk to them anymore and wishes he could.

In English “anything” is quite hard to describe but it can’t mean nothing as nothing is nothing but anything is something! Sorry, that sounds like a riddle, it really is hard to explain but the Oxford English Dictionary can put it better than I ever could : -

Anything -  (pronoun) a thing of any kind, no matter what (http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/anything?view=uk)




Offline Maverick

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Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 04:28:43 PM
Hmmm I thought it a bit different. Like he CAN still talk to that person, but that person doesn't respond for some reason. So he begs him to say something because any word won't hurt as much as the silence does.

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline ElefeX

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Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 04:40:28 PM
It could be, I never thought of it like that before! I just always thought because the lyrics refer to dreams/memories and someone leaving that he was talking to someone who had gone and all he had left were dreams and memories and he couldn't talk directly to them but he just wanted to hear from them again.

We need the official Yoshiki book on song lyrics and meanings!  ;D



Offline Maverick

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Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 05:48:36 PM
AAARGH I'm stupid! I forgot about my original interpretation of that song!
Actually, you are right, ElefeX!

I shouldn't forget that the song is written by Yoshiki and basically Yoshiki's thoughts and words. And songs like Say Anything and Endless Rain, as I see it refer to his father.
So Yoshiki begs his father to say something to him. But naturally he can't answer anymore and everything what remains are memories of him and things he said.

Damned I feel bad that I didn't think of that now :(

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Faestian

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Reply #13 on: February 24, 2010, 06:01:46 PM
As an English speaker born and raised, the phrase 'say anything' is actually used most often as emotional slang, usually screamed at someone during a pique of anger. "Just say anything, I don't care what it is!" It's used regularly, especially in moments of verbal tension. In an office, a boss might say something like, "Say anything! Don't just stand there like a lump of dirt!" A spouse/girl/boyfriend might yell, "You'd say anything to get what you want or to get out of trouble!" IE: you'd lie through your teeth to get your own way. 'Anything' almost literally means: 'Take your pick' as in 'take 'any-thing' you want'. 'Any' and 'all' can be interchangeable in some English phrasing.

'Anything' is a strange word. "I'm not doing anything!" can mean, "I'm doing nothing.", or it can mean, "I am doing something, but not what you think I am doing.", or most commonly, "I'm not doing something wrong!" Kids usually say, "I'm not doing anything.", when, in fact, they are usually doing something they know they would get in trouble for. It's one of those phrases a parent knows to definitely explore further.  ;)

When I hear Yoshiki's 'You say anything', my Western mind immediately turns 'you' into 'you'd', as in 'you'd say anything.' It's just cultural imprinting because if I was to say to someone 'you, say anything.', I would drop the 'you' and just demand: "Say anything!" This is done because the 'you' involved usually knows damned well who we are addressing.  I think Yoshiki has a solid understanding of spoken English, but has written the lyrics literally, for whatever reason. My exchanging 'you' for 'you'd doesn't work in this song.

I agree with the interpretations here on the thread, but to be written grammatically correct, some of the sentences should read: "You, say anything.' As in, 'you there, yes, you, say something, say anything.' As an English speaker, I would write the phrasing as follows:

(original translation taken from here: http://mylyric.6te.net/lyrics.php?artistlyrics=X_Japan--Say_Anything_english_Translation


Only my heart is pounding, stab my heart. The silent vision of love.
Forget the time as the cry travels. Walking through wet Tokyo, feelings make my heart rush.

Run away from realty, I've been crying in a dream.
Frozen time makes me shiver.
Building up my tainted memories until my sadness vanishes.

You, say anything, the fitting word that blesses,
(just) Say anything to my lying heart
If I can't go back to where I have been, I'll live only in dreams,
Getting wet in the endless rain.
Colour my running tears within my daydreams.
You, say anything, whatever you'd like to say to me.
Say anything, you leave me out of my eyes. (the second half of this sentence does not scan in English, leaving it open for philosophical interpretation)
You, say anything, all I can hear is a voice from within my dream.
Say Anything, (and) you can dry my every tear

The lights have gone out on the stage; staring lonely, embraced by the days that have gone past.
Destroying everything, including our sacred love,
Until it vanishes in the sands of time.
You, say anything, whatever you'd like to say to me.

Repeat *

Close your eyes and I'll kill you in the rain.
If a beautiful murder is fitting, the artificial rose is buried,
Shedding in the memory of a poet.

Time to change my life, but my heart remains the same to you,
Time to change your heart, my love for you never changes.

You, say anything, the fitting word that blesses,
But say anything to the heart that can't break.
You, say anything, say anything, now you've gone away, where can I go from here?

Say anything ... say anything...

I believe if time passes. ..everything turns into beauty,
If the rain stops, tears clean the scars of memory away.
Everything starts wearing fresh colours
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody
Jealousy embellishes a page of epic, desire is embracing a dream,
but my mind is still in chaos and...


Like Maverick, I think the song references Yoshiki's father. My interpretation is that he is pleading to someone from his past to just speak to him again, so he can hear their voice once more. Maybe, if he hears them, then they won't be gone, even if it is just for a while in dreams. He doesn't care if what they had was a love/hate relationship, perhaps one of pleasure and pain, he just misses them and wants to hear their voice again, even if the words are lies, even if it means putting himself and his own ego aside: (my interpretation of "...you leave me out of my eyes.") It is as if he is saying say 'anything' because the words don't mean as much as hearing the sound of your voice will. And, even if he knows those words might be hurtful and cruel, there is also a chance they might be kind and filled with love and he might begin to heal the confusion and hurt of loss. Again, this is just my interpretation.  Hope this made some sense to my Asian and European friends.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 06:07:24 PM by Faestian »



Offline Maverick

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Reply #14 on: February 24, 2010, 06:19:40 PM
Amen, as Tanabata said, you're good in expressing your point of view :o
It really makes sense - thank you!

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Faestian

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Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 01:00:50 AM
I am glad it made some sense. I wasn't sure I was being at all clear, so I am happy I was able to help a little.  ;D



Offline Tanabata

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Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 02:17:04 AM
Ever reliable Faestian comes to the rescue!  Always saying what I want to say but not being able to.  I've lost a lot of my ability to express myself in English having lived in Japan so long.

It amazes me how good Yoshiki's English was way back then.  His lyrics are just so beautiful and yet he's not a native speaker.  Puts me to shame.

Thanks Faestian!

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Offline Ashura Shadow

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Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 09:05:01 AM
Wow, thank you so much Faestian, I totally see what you all meant now!
And the song makes much more sense this way!! :D

I'm at my wits' end.


Offline Kiiroi

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Reply #18 on: March 14, 2010, 01:27:39 AM
Thank you so much!!

On the other hand, what's the meaning behind the "Close your eyes and I'll kill you in the rain"? Can someone explain this?



Offline Maverick

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Reply #19 on: March 14, 2010, 10:21:13 AM
I don't think there's a definite explanation for everything. Music expresses someone's feelings - like a painting or a poem does. And I think it's useless to analyse it and say that is the definite meaning in it (a practice what I actually dislike about teachings in school).
So you can either ask Yoshiki about what he meant there or try to find your own way how to see it. But I think music is there because there are no other words to describe the feeling in it and IMO you won't ever receive a proper answer while putting up a question like 'what does the author mean by that'?
Look what your heart tells you.

I personally see Yoshiki killing someone in my mind. That is, he doesn't do it because he wants to but it feels like he did. Meaning a certain debt even though there's nothing he could have done to change the situation anyway and nothing what is really his fault.
Just... close your eyes, listen to the song and look what you can see in your mind what happens.

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline obi325

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Reply #20 on: March 14, 2010, 11:49:36 AM
On the other hand, what's the meaning behind the "Close your eyes and I'll kill you in the rain"? Can someone explain this?

on a rainy day, the other person closes his/her eyes and he kills him xD



Offline Ashura Shadow

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Reply #21 on: March 14, 2010, 12:11:58 PM
Or else, it could be...

If you close your eyes => if you look away from me (jealousy) / if you die on me (reference to his father?)
I'll kill you => I won't forgive you / I'll kill myself (as murder can be seen as a transference of a suicidal tendancy)
In the rain => in a place which symbolizes how sad and depressed I feel / in a place which symbolizes renewal, forgiveness (the past is washed away)

(we should start a topic ''analyse Yoshiki's sanity through his songs' lyrics''  xD)

I'm at my wits' end.


Offline Wearex316

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Reply #22 on: March 14, 2010, 01:50:05 PM
(we should start a topic ''analyse Yoshiki's sanity through his songs' lyrics''  xD)

that could take a life time lol



Offline Tanabata

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Reply #23 on: March 14, 2010, 03:37:54 PM
On the other hand, what's the meaning behind the "Close your eyes and I'll kill you in the rain"? Can someone explain this?

on a rainy day, the other person closes his/her eyes and he kills him xD

Obi325...I love it!  Unfortunately, I don't think Yoshiki is that simple. 

We are X!!!!!


Offline Maverick

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Reply #24 on: March 14, 2010, 04:17:50 PM
Rain is sadness and tears - no weather phenomenon in that sense XD

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline obi325

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Reply #25 on: March 14, 2010, 08:36:12 PM
On the other hand, what's the meaning behind the "Close your eyes and I'll kill you in the rain"? Can someone explain this?

on a rainy day, the other person closes his/her eyes and he kills him xD

Obi325...I love it!  Unfortunately, I don't think Yoshiki is that simple. 

i remember reading about a songwriter, he was asked if all those explanations abou that particulare song were right, and he said: "I was just looking for the rhymes"
sometimes things are simpler than you think, anyway yoshiki killes something in almost every song, or atleast makes him/her suffer so it yould be just his anger or something that grew into a habit



Offline mC

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Reply #26 on: March 14, 2010, 11:56:11 PM
i remember reading about a songwriter, he was asked if all those explanations abou that particulare song were right, and he said: "I was just looking for the rhymes"
I won't try to understand what Yoshiki was trying to mean when he wrote those lyrics but, I agree with obi325 100%. So many people always look for a deeper meaning to something when, really, sometimes it is just the face value, simplicity.