X Japan in Hollywood on January 9th

[Feudal]

HA you think Yoshiki would stand bottling? They'd walk right off the stage! And that would be the end of that.

They can't gain a large following if they play in a huge festival where everyone is drunk and watching the other band. Yoshiki won't accept anything else than the main stage and if they preform there at 1pm, when 70% of the people aren't there yet and the other 30% is setting up or getting drunk, then they'll go totally unnoticed. Yes, there might be a 1000 X Japan fans there, but that won't matter since they know X from before already.

Yes, a festival might do them good, but it can also go so wrong.

I'd personally prefer a few gigs in the US, at medium venues (under 10,000) to gain popularity. If they pull off even a few gigs in a row then a) people would dare to buy plane tickets/book hotels again and b) they'd gain more fans in the US. So that would be my opinion.

I agree 100% I'm worried though that if it so happens that Yoshiki is feeling up to it physically, mentally etc. that he would do this kind of thing anyways despite the bottling thing in an attempt to make a mark. I agree and think that the best choice is to do smaller gigs exclusively with as MUCH attention on them as possible and build from there. Let people see X Japan for all they are worth...not a small portion of a drunken, drugged, mosh fest where the appreciation level will be insanely low.

[darkcat21]

The promoters generally look for a mix of pitchfork media inspired independent acts (such as Animal Collective), fairly well known Alternative rock bands and finally massive headlining acts such Bowie , Muse and Radiohead, and unfortunately X Japan doesn't fall into any of those categories. X wouldn't really suit playing the small tents which showcase dance/hip-hop acts.

You now know more than the promoters who offered Yoshiki to play? Because the news say that it was offered to Yoshiki to play there, he didn't ask, so the guys from the festival want X Japan.

And yes, two concerts, in Los Angeles and New York in 5000 people venues would be the best choice. Plus a festival. It would suck if they bottled the band on stage, but I don't think that in a festival they would bring all the roses and gay stuff and they would dress a bit different.

[Sander]

You now know more than the promoters who offered Yoshiki to play? Because the news say that it was offered to Yoshiki to play there, he didn't ask, so the guys from the festival want X Japan.

And yes, two concerts, in Los Angeles and New York in 5000 people venues would be the best choice. Plus a festival. It would suck if they bottled the band on stage, but I don't think that in a festival they would bring all the roses and gay stuff and they would dress a bit different.

Well the festival guys would attract an extra 1000+ fans (=1000+ tickets sold), no matter when or where X would play. I'm not saying the deal is bad for the festival, it might, however, be bad for X as a band. Even if they'd get bottled and no one else would like them, the festival organisers would've already gotten their share.


And Ami, they might not loose any fans, but if they fail to have an impact there, they might loose willingness to try any more outside Japan (or Asia). One failed concert for a small starting band is nothing, but for a huge name like X Japan it might be devastating enough that they'd push forward their World Domination plans another 10 years.

[LebendenToten]

I'm thinking lollapolooza would be a mistake, I don't think that crowd would appreciate them. I agree with most of you, tour 1,000+ venues, test out the waters, and slowly but surely build a new following. In addition I was thinking that they should try to get a spot on late night television or something like that over here, it would be a good medium for spreading the word.

[Ulquiorra]

As you know I've changed my tune quite a bit, but I have to point out, this is the U.S we're talking about, with the list of bands I've heard so far at this lollapolooza festival it doesn't sound like it'll be majorly metal orientated, however, it is still a rock oriented festival, and being in the U.S, fans at festivals like these aren't so inclined to hear tons of ballads or songs like Drain/I.V.

Especially fans at festivals like 'gods of metal' or 'reading' for example, its either powermetal/oldschool style heavy metal&rock 100% all the way or you get bottled for being a soft sounding emo band or a new generic mainstream band that just strums up & down on the guitar wildly for 10 minutes. My Chemical Romance have been bottled at least twice at these kind of concerts.

I'm not saying X-Japan has a weak sound, or that they're emo, or that they just fling their hands randomly on the guitars and looky pretty for the girls in music videos like the new mainstream bands do, but the truth is all the ballads and songs like Drain & I.V will not go down well (I think Jade's got a lot of good moments, I think that song could work.) So they had better not go to a festival like that right now, with that setlist or they'd better be prepared for something like bottling to happen.

This lollapolooza festival, they might go down well there, since its bands like Muse & Radiohead, I don't know what kind of bands Beastie boys (recently reunited pop group?) & Arcade Fire are though.

I absolutly agree that they should've started with small concerts first, to gain popularity slowly rather then risking it all.

[TG]

The promoters generally look for a mix of pitchfork media inspired independent acts (such as Animal Collective), fairly well known Alternative rock bands and finally massive headlining acts such Bowie , Muse and Radiohead, and unfortunately X Japan doesn't fall into any of those categories. X wouldn't really suit playing the small tents which showcase dance/hip-hop acts.

You now know more than the promoters who offered Yoshiki to play? Because the news say that it was offered to Yoshiki to play there, he didn't ask, so the guys from the festival want X Japan.

And yes, two concerts, in Los Angeles and New York in 5000 people venues would be the best choice. Plus a festival. It would suck if they bottled the band on stage, but I don't think that in a festival they would bring all the roses and gay stuff and they would dress a bit different.

Yes, I said they 'generally' (not definitive) request artists that fall into the categories that I listed, this is because these types of artists are often discussed about on Coachella and Lollapalooza forums (a majority of the users have an innate passion for hip indie bands). My point is further proven by the two artists who have self-confirmed themselves for the festival, Phoenix and The Flaming Lips, both bands fall into the categories I listed.

Also I never questioned the authenticity of the news, I merely believe that there are other better ways to approach the situation for both parties involved, with X doing smaller shows like I previously mentioned and Lollapalooza people going for bands that would result in greater reaction from the dominant percentage of the audience.

@Uliquorra - Beastie Boys are a very well established hip-hop act from 1980s. They were headliners last year but one of the members got cancer so they pulled out (I know this because I went to APW (another US festival) and they pulled out). Arcade Fire are indie rock group from Canada, they have in past years co-headlined festivals such as Leeds/Reading in 2007, very highly regarded by media outlets and by indie hipsters.

[darkcat21]

But what kind of popularity do they gain with small concerts? :S

[Sander]

This lollapolooza festival, they might go down well there, since its bands like Muse & Radiohead, I don't know what kind of bands Beastie boys (recently reunited pop group?) & Arcade Fire are though.

Beastie Boys is (c Wikipedia) Hip hop, rap rock, alternative rock, rapcore, punk rock. You might know the song You Gotta Fight For Your Right (To Party). The festival itself is a alt. rock/hip hop/punk rock.

But what kind of popularity do they gain with small concerts? :S

I say they should start medium. Like TG said, around 5000 people venues.

[Ulquiorra]

I've known of the beastie boys existence for ages, I've just never listened to them so I wasn't sure what their genre was.

[ElefeX]

But what kind of popularity do they gain with small concerts? :S

Exactly. If they are happy with the fans they have just now then by all means do small concerts. They might get some extra fans with small concerts but not enough to fill somewhere like MSG.

However, if they want to expand their audience to people who would not normally listen to Japanese music then they will have to do a festival or something that will give them exposure. The majority of people will not even be interested in listening so they have to try and change that attitude, things like festival appearances and TV/radio exposure will help them gain popularity.

[Beauty/Broken]

I don't think Yoshiki would march off if he got bottled, he's probably more than used to it. Maybe you're forgetting X's early days, their gigs were notorious for stirring up aggression in the venues. I mean look at Toshi's old MC's - the kind of stuff he was saying to the crowds wasn't exactly pleasant.

I don't see how it could harm X Japan as a band any. It may not be a great experience and there are certainly going to be haters, probably lots of them, but if they want to have any appeal at all to a larger audience this is something they have to do. Playing small venue shows isn't going to do anything for their popularity, as they will only ever sell tickets to the original fanbase - which unfortunately isn't really very big out of Japan.

[Ulquiorra]

I do think to win over a U.S audience they will have to bring back a couple of old tracks like Blue Blood & Rose of Pain. I'm not saying change the whole setlist they have right now, but I think it would be very helpful to gain popularity with U.S rock and metal fans if they just have one or two more of their old songs added to their current setlist.

[darkcat21]

With the Akasaka setlist they win over any kind of audience, so, they don't really need to do lot of changes.

[Ulquiorra]

Well I'm certain Yoshiki said they only played Blue Blood at Akasaka because it was a small venue (as if metal songs are only suited for small club houses, wtf?!?) every live after that they've not played it, I think they do need to change their setlist very slighty and bring it back, and maybe another old song.

[Beauty/Broken]

The only issue with Yoshiki re-releasing old songs is that they just sound really dated. Even for a late 80's recording all of the tracks on Blue Blood are both poorly recorded and mixed. Bands which record in people's sheds with limited equipment and a computer can achieve a higher recording quality in this day and age. A lot of X Japan's songs just don't stand the test of time in the way that a lot of others have. Even some of their post 1990 releases are a little flakey too, take Tears for example, those over compressed drums and piano just sound old school.

If they were going for a full re-record on the said songs, then maybe, but from the sounds of it Yoshiki is using the original masters for any alterations he's making.

[Sander]

I don't think Yoshiki would march off if he got bottled, he's probably more than used to it. Maybe you're forgetting X's early days, their gigs were notorious for stirring up aggression in the venues. I mean look at Toshi's old MC's - the kind of stuff he was saying to the crowds wasn't exactly pleasant.

Can you imagine him doing something like that again? I'm telling you, they aren't now what they were 20 or 30 years ago and they won't do the same things.

If no one sees them on a festival and they end up getting only negative results then that might be it for any outside-Asia concerts. They need to release new stuff, do publicity things (like that PV shooting in Hollywood), (God Almighty smite me for what I am about to say) even getting a song to show on MTV would help. Then start organising concerts and shows. There is no point in them playing a huge festival, when most of the people are watching the cooler bands.

Again, I'm not saying that playing at a festival is a totally bad idea, I'm saying that it needs to be thought through well.

[Ulquiorra]

The only issue with Yoshiki re-releasing old songs is that they just sound really dated. Even for a late 80's recording all of the tracks on Blue Blood are both poorly recorded and mixed. Bands which record in people's sheds with limited equipment and a computer can achieve a higher recording quality in this day and age. A lot of X Japan's songs just don't stand the test of time in the way that a lot of others have. Even some of their post 1990 releases are a little flakey too, take Tears for example, those over compressed drums and piano just sound old school.

If they were going for a full re-record on the said songs, then maybe, but from the sounds of it Yoshiki is using the original masters for any alterations he's making.

I don't know what you're talking about rerecordings for, I'm talking about which songs to play live, I think to help gain popularity with U.S rock/metal fans they should add Blue Blood to their current setlist, and all that requires is them playing it live like they did in akasaka Blitz-new years eve concert.

[Beauty/Broken]

I don't think Yoshiki would march off if he got bottled, he's probably more than used to it. Maybe you're forgetting X's early days, their gigs were notorious for stirring up aggression in the venues. I mean look at Toshi's old MC's - the kind of stuff he was saying to the crowds wasn't exactly pleasant.

Can you imagine him doing something like that again? I'm telling you, they aren't now what they were 20 or 30 years ago and they won't do the same things.

If no one sees them on a festival and they end up getting only negative results then that might be it for any outside-Asia concerts. They need to release new stuff, do publicity things (like that PV shooting in Hollywood), (God Almighty smite me for what I am about to say) even getting a song to show on MTV would help. Then start organising concerts and shows. There is no point in them playing a huge festival, when most of the people are watching the cooler bands.

Again, I'm not saying that playing at a festival is a totally bad idea, I'm saying that it needs to be thought through well.

Well he's going to have to deal with it, I don't think any band is particularly exempt from being bottled. X Japan will just be easy targets, much as the Japanese bands who Yoshiki got onto Taste of Chaos were - but I don't think they were particularly damaged as musical units for it.

It's obvious X Japan didn't re-unite to be a recording band. I mean look what have we got in 3 years: 2 new songs and a few live versions of a Yoshiki solo song. And I mean, Yoshiki's hardly even pushing the boat out on production values either, he synthesises all orchestral parts now and on Jade he hasn't even recorded himself drumming. X Japan are never going to release enough material to be taken seriously as a current recording artist, and Yoshiki clearly just wants to try and put his old hits in the shop window of the English speaking market.

Playing live shows is all they have to offer would-be fans, if they don't appear at some mainstream events they're not going to do ammount to anything outside of Japan, it's as simple as that. If they had played Bercy and MSG it would have been crippling for the band, it was a deluded opinion to think X Japan could sell enough seats to begin with. In some ways, flaking out of those shows for whatever reasons may have added to the longevity of the reunion.

[Ann1958]

'Actually I wouldn't count on that.
I wouldn't be surprised if he started throwing bottles right back at the crowd, or if he sprayed them with a fire extinguisher. >D
Of course, if a bottle flew on stage and somehow didn't break, then Pata would drink it.'

Yes, I am sure, they would throwing bottles back and sprayed them...
Their beginnings were at festivals.
I also prefer them beginning with things like the gigs, but, we are all like protecting mothers of X, afraid someone would do their any harm  

I suppose they know what they are doing, as long as all that will bring them to Europe sooner or later, it is ok for me. Can we do something to make them more known here in Europe? What could we do?

[Beauty/Broken]

The only issue with Yoshiki re-releasing old songs is that they just sound really dated. Even for a late 80's recording all of the tracks on Blue Blood are both poorly recorded and mixed. Bands which record in people's sheds with limited equipment and a computer can achieve a higher recording quality in this day and age. A lot of X Japan's songs just don't stand the test of time in the way that a lot of others have. Even some of their post 1990 releases are a little flakey too, take Tears for example, those over compressed drums and piano just sound old school.

If they were going for a full re-record on the said songs, then maybe, but from the sounds of it Yoshiki is using the original masters for any alterations he's making.

I don't know what you're talking about rerecordings for, I'm talking about which songs to play live, I think to help gain popularity with U.S rock/metal fans they should add Blue Blood to their current setlist, and all that requires is them playing it live like they did in akasaka Blitz-new years eve concert.
[/quot

The only issue with Yoshiki re-releasing old songs is that they just sound really dated. Even for a late 80's recording all of the tracks on Blue Blood are both poorly recorded and mixed. Bands which record in people's sheds with limited equipment and a computer can achieve a higher recording quality in this day and age. A lot of X Japan's songs just don't stand the test of time in the way that a lot of others have. Even some of their post 1990 releases are a little flakey too, take Tears for example, those over compressed drums and piano just sound old school.

If they were going for a full re-record on the said songs, then maybe, but from the sounds of it Yoshiki is using the original masters for any alterations he's making.

I don't know what you're talking about rerecordings for, I'm talking about which songs to play live, I think to help gain popularity with U.S rock/metal fans they should add Blue Blood to their current setlist, and all that requires is them playing it live like they did in akasaka Blitz-new years eve concert.

I wasn't directing it at you, I was just making a general point about a flaw which I see in Yoshiki's intent to release videos for old songs to try and introduce the world market to the band.

[TG]

For me, the whole reunion and the idea of playing these medium sized venues and shows is to allow the fans outside of Japan to experience the band live, something that was un-imaginable a few years ago.  However, if we start to breakdown the long term outcomes/goals of the band such as gaining mainstream exposure in the west, then that is another totally different subject.

This might sound controversial, but I think if they want to make it big in America, they need to stick with songs that are similar to I.V. and JADE. ( I don't want to start the argument of what direction they should go) but if they really want to make a serious impact they surely can't release many songs in Japanese as a majority of people simply won't understand and if they revert back to their metal days then while it will impress the metal fans and us, it will detract from the dominant market which is the mainstream consumer. I think songs like Rusty Nail will leave a greater impact than songs like Vanishing Love. Once they've gained the attention of a few new fans, they will gradually increase their stock as people will then begin to listen to their discography.

[Ann1958]

I do not understand one word of Japanese and though I love their Japanese songs, I prefer Toshi singing in Japanese. I have searched for the traduction of lyrics on internet to know the meaning of the songs, but that was after that I knew all the songs.
For me it is perfect that Japanese with here and there a few engrish in. I adore that.

[Sander]

Yes, but an average person doesn't

[Ulquiorra]

if they revert back to their metal days then while it will impress the metal fans and us, it will detract from the dominant market which is the mainstream consumer.

I understand that Yoshiki would want to reach more than just the hardore heavy metal fans considering he has lots of different genres of music going on in X, however, 'the mainstream consumer' today in the U.S/UK today contains nothing more then fans of poser bands like Green Day or pop bands like Lady Ga Ga that put little thought & time into composition, and today's mainstream fans don't see that and they just gobble it all up, mostly because mainstream bands today do music videos for every song and try to look pretty in them which draws fangirl crowds, that's the mainstream market & the mainstream consumer in the U.S/UK right now.

I'm not saying Jade is a bad song, but if you're saying "this will get the mainstream consumer" then, just no, in my opinion, I don't want X-Japan to have today's Fallout Boy type fans that focus on "omg they're so hot" and then get 55 million views on youtube videos in one day, when they don't even care about the music they're listening to. X-Japan are not Fallout boy & they are not Lady Ga Ga, they're universes beyond, so keep those kind of fans away. I listen to some bands who have a few million fans, but in the grand scheme of things that's not that big compared to how big they should be, and I think those bands deserve far more fans, but I will never want them to turn to the 'mainstream crowd of today' to gain it.

But at the same time I'm not saying I just want them to be known to metal fans either, I do want them to gain fans who like the other genres of music as well, however you shouldn't say "they'll only get fans from the heavy metal consumers" as if that's a small thing, with great popularity in the metal genre you can get millions & millions of fans, I'm sure you know that already though.

Yoshiki still claims X is a heavy metal band, so therefore they will go to festivals like Lollapalooza/Reading/Glastonbury/Ozzfest ect. And I know what fans at these kinds of festivals are like, so while X-Japan still play X, Orgasm, kurenai & Weekend in their concerts, they will need another one or two old songs to get popularity in the U.S/UK with the kind of festivals I can garuntee Yoshiki will try and get into. I don't think songs like I.V and Drain will work.

[TG]

I understand what you're saying and I agree, bands of other genres can acheive millions of fans. I too, do not want one of my favourite bands selling out like Green Day just to gain mainstream recognition with as you put it, "Fall Out Boy type fans". But unfortunately that is how it goes today for non-pop acts. It is rare that an artist can acheive considerable success without altering their style to match the expectations and tastes of the masses. It is a truly great shame because there are lots of really obscure musicians out there, who often or not are musically superior in my opinion to some of the artists that you see dominating the charts.

@Ann1958 - I too prefer songs in Japanese and I also do not understand. But I believe that the average music fan is not as open-minded as a lot of the people on this forum to appreciate the music. A lot will simply say no because of the language without even listening to the actual music.

[Ulquiorra]

Well I'd rather see them with the 20 million+ fans and great respectable music they have now, rather than them become tacky sellouts like Fallout Boy with 5 billion meaningless fans.

[Ann1958]

But that Japanese is part of the music, the sound of that Japanese is also music.
I don 't understand that because the first thing you hear when you hear a song is the music. And after that comes the words.

Festival or gigs, I think that the people will go at least look what is happening when they will hear the fans screaming...   But I still prefer gigs for them beginning.

[Sander]

The question here is- what does Yoshiki want? Without answering that, I think, it's pretty much meaningless for us to argue here. Maybe discuss and point out different possible scenarios, but nothing more.

[Ulquiorra]

When I was in College a year ago, my friends saw me listening to X-Japan, when they saw it was a japanese band/found out they sing in Japanese there reactions were "oh, really" in an interesting way, they never bashed the band and they seemed interested in the concept, I didn't ask them to listen to it however and because of that, and also the fact they all had busy lives and were concentrating on so many other bands at the time, they forgot about X and didn't find out any more about them.

But I can tell they didn't mind that it was in Japanese and they were interested in that idea, also the idea of Japanese and english songs together.

@Hypno, I know you didn't say this but I wasn't deciding what direction Yoshiki wants to go for him, I'm just analysing what he's done so far, and the fact that he still claims X is a metal band, and that they're now apparently going to this lollapalooza festival, it shows to me Yoshiki is trying to appeal to the U.S rock/metal crowd a lot, and from that I'm discussing what kind of setlist would work in the U.S for that, if this is what he's intending to do.

I have to say though, even though I have started understanding X-Japan's changes over the years a lot more now and I'm a lot happier with the band then I was before, if they start trying to sound like Green day/Fallout Boy to try and get to the mainstream market I will then bring out the sellout card, I will not be happy, and I think that will be the one desicion by X a lot of people here would not be happy with.

[TG]

Well I'd rather see them with the 20 million+ fans and great respectable music they have now, rather than them become tacky sellouts like Fallout Boy with 5 billion meaningless fans.

Agreed.

PS - Leeds/Reading festival is mostly brit-pop/indie orientated with artists like Arctic Monkeys, Razorlight and Kings of Leon. Something like 'Download festival' in June features more metal bands.