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Guitar tone

Dark Shadow · 22526

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Offline Dark Shadow

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on: August 05, 2009, 12:29:24 AM
Does anyone know how i can duplicate Hide's guitar tone and sound using a digitech RP50? Specifically the Endless Rain Solo, And Dahlia?



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #1 on: August 05, 2009, 12:48:38 AM
i've no clue about guitars but...does this help you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J8jaJN2IN4


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Offline Dark Shadow

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Reply #2 on: August 05, 2009, 06:44:34 PM
Thanks for the link. Although it didn't help  :)



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 10:12:57 PM
lol, oops. Sowwwwy, i suck in guitar XD


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Offline Wick

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Reply #4 on: September 03, 2009, 09:24:23 AM
Hi,

I'm new to this forum :P

About the guitar tone I haven't got a digitech RP50 so I don't know the precise settings but there are alot of things that make the tone.
For instance:
- guitar picks (HIDE uses really flexible dull onces)
- guitar strings (HIDE uses .009/.046 I use ernie ball hybrid slinky)
- guitar ofcourse (HIDE uses neck-through guitar which has an effect on the sustain and the kind of wood used has also influence)
- pick-ups (now here is a problem for you. the original endless rain is played using a emg-81 in the brigde position and a dimarzio dp-101 dual sound super distortion in the neck position which HIDE used for a long time. He used during the vanishing vision, blue blood and jealousy period. At dahlia he uses diffrent pick-ups fernandes sustainer and some other dimarzio bridge pick-up. Also the amps differ).
- Amplifier (blue blood etc. -> peavey vtm 120  dahlia -> engl)
- Technique (X JAPAN has some fast songs, sometimes around 190 so you will have to relax and keep it tight)
- Rig (There is not much known of HIDE's rig. I use a rocktron rampage (blue one) and a boss od-1 for the distortion and have a peavey bravo amp. He did use those pedals at some time but used alot of others aswell. The book "hide days" contains some information about his rig which I'm going to buy in the near future and here's a site with some inaccurate info about his dahlia rig: http://www.effector-mania.com/kenkyu_2.htm. Combining a distortion pedal and a overdrive pedal can give a really nice sustain. HIDE also uses this often but I can't recomment the marshall guv'nor in combination with the boss od-1.
- Correct tabs. (there alot of rubbish on the internet but "guitar pro" really helps. To get good tabs you should buy the "live live live" bandscores. The normal album bandscores are crap. The live live live bandscores aren't 100% correct but with some minor changes by watching closely at the live performances you can get it really accurate).
- Alot of other stuff. It all depends on how close you want it. You just need to use your ears to get the right settings and perhaps some gear adjusments and you will get a long way ;).

I hope this helps,

Wick

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline mC

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Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 09:45:47 AM
^My knowledge of guitars is non existent, but you sound as though you know a lot! Welcome to the forums!



Offline Wick

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Reply #6 on: September 03, 2009, 12:04:43 PM
Thanks! I always watch the X news on this site and being a X fan, I had to join once ;D
X JAPAN's music is a reall challenge to play and they keep amazing me.

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline Dark Shadow

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Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 11:53:23 PM
Thanks for the advice, the actual playing part i can do. It is the effects that i can't replicate, especially dahlia. Oh and if anyone is interested hide used .7MM picks.



Offline visualrocker69

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Reply #8 on: November 22, 2009, 04:35:37 PM
lol. hi there, wick :P

Dark Shadow: what you're hearing is a Fernandes sustainer system, not an effect.

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline Wick

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Reply #9 on: November 24, 2009, 12:53:13 PM
hi ;)

perhaps I have some new info from a guy I emailed called Shoichi Nakanishi (kind guy).

It's a bit japlish but does say something about the possible wirering of the dp-101 for who might be interested.

I do not equip EMG-PA2 mini switch on my guitar.
The layout that Passive "Dual Sound" is placed on front
and active "EMG81" is placed on rear is very
unique select. "Pararell wiring of Dual Sound can be
subsequently available by direct mini-switch "on""
I wrote in previous response, but actually, It may
be able to only bypass volume pot. (But when the switch is
turned "on", apparent trebly sound is
available on the front position, whereas EMG81 on
rear position is not changed its sound.).

Anyway, that mini-switch on my MG is only
"on(bypassing pot)-off" functioned switch, now I
think.  As one of the evidence, when the switch
turned on, volume knob doesn't work in any pickup
position.

Fortunately, MG-120X has originally mini-switch equipped
area. I think option-3 that EMG replied is the best
optional select for convenient adjusting gain by
volume pot.

As just an information, I have not feel inconvenience
of volume control yet, in spite of using it for 12
years. Well, This impression may be caused by the fact
that I usually play this guitar without volume
controlling. When I want to play the guitar with volume
controlling, I play the other guitars that sensitive
for gain control such as Fender Stratocaster.)

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline visualrocker69

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Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 07:02:34 AM
You guys are really overthinking it. Just any mahogany body guitar with an EMG 81 and a Marshall JCM800-style amp overdriven with a tubescreamer will do.

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline Wick

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Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 01:36:04 PM
Sure..I don't mean that all those details are necessary for a good tone (although that's what this topic is about) but PERHAPS there are people who are interesed in those details to modify their guitar, which does not have to cost much, to match it close to the guitar of HIDE..

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline Hurley

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Reply #12 on: December 04, 2009, 05:15:16 PM
lol. hi there, wick :P

Dark Shadow: what you're hearing is a Fernandes sustainer system, not an effect.
Nope, hide uses lots of effects besides the sustainer. In Dahlia I'm pretty sure the effect is a wah set to a certain position. You can also hear a whammy pedal used at the end of the solo.

Mod color o' mine


Offline julien

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Reply #13 on: December 04, 2009, 07:09:43 PM
the engl hide used was a engl savage 120. He used analogik pedal (don't know the brand though ^^') for X and multi effect pedal for his solo career. I think he used 0.73mm pick, isn't it?

X JAPAN [Belgian Street Team]

   | ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|
 |We want old songs ! |
 |___________|
       ∧∧ ||
    ( ゚д゚)||
    / づΦ


Offline Wick

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Reply #14 on: December 05, 2009, 12:09:34 AM
edit (on second thought): You could be right about the wah. Dahlia is more treble sounding but that doesn't mean he did not use the sustainer. It could also be another sound using different settings because the wah isn't fixed while he is using it during the song.

HIDE used a lot of pedals and somewhere it's stated that he used a "maxon analog distortion" whatever that is..I mailed maxon once but they didn't know either.
He has his own signature picks which you can sometimes find for rediculous prices on ebay or better yahoo auctions. They are quite thin and dull especially for tremolo picking. Good chance it's 0.73
« Last Edit: December 05, 2009, 10:23:35 AM by Wick »

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline visualrocker69

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Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 05:52:35 PM
Sure..I don't mean that all those details are necessary for a good tone (although that's what this topic is about) but PERHAPS there are people who are interesed in those details to modify their guitar, which does not have to cost much, to match it close to the guitar of HIDE..

And still, all you need is the basics I listed up there. The Peavey is nothing more than a JCM800 copy of the preamp schematic with a 6L6 power section, and some bells and whistles. You can get 99% of the way there with any EMG 81 equipped mahogany guitar and a Marshally sounding amp (I recommend Splawn by far). Any typical overdrive pedal will tame the highs a bit and hype the midrange frequencies - this is a useful effect to kick in for solos, so that you can contrast a *slightly* scooped rhythm tone with a rounder, smoother lead tone. Apart from that, don't worry about the details. hide's tone just is not THAT unique.

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline visualrocker69

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Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 06:11:22 PM
Oh and about the Dahlia effects - it's not necessary wah, there are tons of diff approaches to filtering. The whammy thing was obvious; I mentioned the sustainer because that's definately the one elusive sound there that might be misconstrued as an effect but necesssarily isn't. Just didn't want to see someone looking for something that doesn't exist. It's just controlled feedback on an artificial harmonic frequency.

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline Dark Shadow

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Reply #17 on: January 09, 2010, 05:22:42 AM
Thanks visualrocker69, the sustainer was that missing element i needed. ;D



Offline HarZy

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Reply #18 on: January 09, 2010, 08:43:10 AM
Does anybody know how to get something similar to hide's guitar tone on Vanishing Vision? That's seriously the coolest tone I've ever heard.



Offline Wick

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Reply #19 on: January 09, 2010, 09:45:41 AM
Quote
You guys are really overthinking it. Just any mahogany body guitar with an EMG 81 and a Marshall JCM800-style amp overdriven with a tubescreamer will do.

Like visualrocker said but if you want it more precise: at club citta 1988.10.30 for instance he used a peavey vtm-120 amp and a marshall amp. The effects he used there are a Boss od-1 (this one he used a lot), Maxon od-9 (pretty sure), guyatone ps-018 jet sound flanger and a Boss ce-3 chorus judging by the looks of it.

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline sora2252

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Reply #20 on: January 06, 2011, 05:25:09 AM
Wick- how do you know that hide used flexible dull ounce picks?

I ask because I play guitar and I've been messing with picks a lot recently. It made me think about what my favorite guitarists use. I can't find what gauge of pick hide, hizaki, or teru use. I did find that slash uses thick picks, but it's all I can find...



Offline Wick

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Reply #21 on: January 08, 2011, 02:47:42 PM
Because I tried them ;)

hide has his own signature picks of fernandes http://www.fernandes.co.jp/products/accessories.html (musician picks)


I took this screenshot from the honey blade performance. You can clearly see his dull picks here with holes and the X Japan logo.

I can't recommend them though..I don't think they are really suitable for tremolo picking and that kind of stuff. Personally I like hard and sharp picks for electric guitar.
For acoustic they are ok, chords etc.

I noticed they wear pretty fast too. However, the different colored picks are also made of different materials.
The silver ones suck and the black ones are better (no racism).
I haven't tested the dull X Japan picks. The pick showed below could be made of a harder material.



For a fast song like art of life hide probably had to use sharp picks aswell. You don't see them often (I think they aren't made
anymore and I haven't tested them yet) but here's a picture:




In my previous post here, the maxon od-9 could have been a sd-9

oh and:

use what suits you most
« Last Edit: January 08, 2011, 02:50:53 PM by Wick »

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline julien

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Reply #22 on: January 08, 2011, 06:59:04 PM
Thanks for the informations ! I'm looking to buy all the hide gear ! It's such good material ! I saw a GUYATONE PS-018 for sale but it was already sold >.< That's a great flanger (if someone sells one :D)

X JAPAN [Belgian Street Team]

   | ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|
 |We want old songs ! |
 |___________|
       ∧∧ ||
    ( ゚д゚)||
    / づΦ


Offline Wick

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Reply #23 on: January 08, 2011, 08:39:10 PM
Quote
I'm looking to buy all the hide gear !


Good luck hehe

I like vintage/analog stuff but it's sometimes quite expensive. Hide has a good taste. You can't go wrong with a nice jmc like tube amp boosted using a vintage boss overdrive and having a guitar with an emg-81 pick-up. All are icons.

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline sora2252

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Reply #24 on: January 09, 2011, 12:47:02 AM
Thanks wick!!!! So the picks that hizaki and teru use. Are they harder gauges or are they more flexible like hide's. I've been using Dulop jazz picks (the flexible ones) and the jazz III which are much harder. I can't really decided which i like more though. It's driving me crazy!!! But I know I like sharp picks. I guess that's why I'm wondering about the gauge that hizaki and teru use. I can't decide which way I lean on these pics haha!



Offline Wick

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Reply #25 on: January 09, 2011, 10:09:45 AM
you're welcome. You could try the Dunlop Jazz III XL. They are very similar in shape and size in comparison to the picks of Teru and Hizaki.
Or you could try the fernandes P-100SPC which are a little harder to get (I ordered a couple) but the material used could be closer to the ones of Hizaki and Teru if not the same. Although Versailles uses ESP picks, ESP doesn't have the Jazz III shape.

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline julien

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Reply #26 on: January 10, 2011, 06:23:45 PM
What book does it come from?! i have to buy it !

X JAPAN [Belgian Street Team]

   | ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|
 |We want old songs ! |
 |___________|
       ∧∧ ||
    ( ゚д゚)||
    / づΦ


Offline X NUT

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Reply #27 on: January 10, 2011, 08:34:51 PM
When I played I used the red Dunlop Jazz III picks. For fast alternate picking stuff I'd definitely recommend these picks. You could try out the different colors too.




Offline Wick

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Reply #28 on: January 11, 2011, 07:13:29 AM
Quote
What book does it come from?! i have to buy it !

hide DAYS new edition.

There are more books I have that contain info about his rig. Glare has a good picture of his rig in 1996.9.8
The hide weROCK Rocking'f book has only info regarding his guitars.
The blue blood and jealousy band scores have some info in the back and vanishing vision probably too (only one I'm missing :()

hide DAYS has the most pictures but they are rather small. Still..you won't be able to buy his whole rig unless you win the lottery. You realize that huh :P

The true Way of sword fencing is the craft of defeating the enemy in a fight, and nothing other than this. If you attain and adhere to the wisdom of my strategy, you need never doubt that you will win.

Miyamoto Musashi


Offline julien

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Reply #29 on: January 11, 2011, 08:52:40 PM
I think i'll need to spend some more money then =D
For the bandscore, i only have Dahlia and X singles... i'll buy the others later =D
Thanks for the infos anyway =D

X JAPAN [Belgian Street Team]

   | ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|
 |We want old songs ! |
 |___________|
       ∧∧ ||
    ( ゚д゚)||
    / づΦ