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Pata Vs. hide: This pisses me off

Yu~Kun · 9349

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Offline Yu~Kun

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on: April 24, 2009, 01:26:03 PM
I was watching some random X lives on youtube yesterday and unfortunately I came across some comments that got me really angry.


Apparently, the majority of the people out there tend to believe that a skilled guitarist is the "ZOMFG-look-how-fast-he-can-play" type. So people were making comments about how underatted Pata is and hide gets always the attention because of his charisma and that Pata is the true good guitarist of X because his solos are super-fast.


Do NOT get me wrong. I extremely admire Pata's guitar skills as much as hide's. My point is though, that with those comparisons, both hide's and pata's skills are being insulted. Because i believe that Pata is not a good guitarist because he plays fast, but because of many other guitar skills he has.


After all, yes it's true that you need skills to play fast. But that's not the only point!! If it was about that, then Alex Lifeson and Brian May are the biggest failures of the rock history...-_-


So, i simply wanted to say, and please tell me your opinion about this too, that it's unfair for many guitarists to have their abilities measured due to their fats-guitar solo-playing abilities. Especially Pata and hide.


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Offline HarZy

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Reply #1 on: April 24, 2009, 01:31:46 PM
People suck.
If guitar skills were only about speed, I'd be a god already. XD



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #2 on: April 24, 2009, 01:34:29 PM
lol according to them, you wpuld definately be, so go and show off your skills, and you will have a big fandom worshiping you xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

:P


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Offline MIHO

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Reply #3 on: April 24, 2009, 01:40:31 PM
I don't like the VS shit in general.......... Like Heath vs Taiji...

This is so lame. Just... ignore it and know you're a better fan than that.



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #4 on: April 24, 2009, 01:50:26 PM
I don't like the VS shit in general.......... Like Heath vs Taiji...

This is so lame. Just... ignore it and know you're a better fan than that.

i know, but it's not a matter of how much of a fan I am and they are...i just thing it's very retarded to believe that speed makes the awesome guitarist. Especially when it comes to Pata and hide who have proven in their solo works that are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than just speed.


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Offline Skooter

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Reply #5 on: April 24, 2009, 01:50:46 PM
80% of the Youtube comments I read piss me off or annoy me in some way D:.

I don't know enough about music or guitar to judge either hide or Pata but seriously, I don't think you can compare them? The awesome thing is that they work together so well in my opinion.



Offline MIHO

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Reply #6 on: April 24, 2009, 01:57:35 PM
^ true, they both have completely different styles....... I wouldn't be able to choose, and then again, do we HAVE to choose? Don't think so.



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #7 on: April 24, 2009, 01:58:51 PM
@Skooter
I don't think you need to know about music and guitar....

I think either knowing or not, you can still understand that it's unfair to judge a guitarist like this


and yeah hide's and pata's cooperation is always the best, and one of the hardest things to achieve in a band


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Offline Maverick

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Reply #8 on: April 24, 2009, 02:06:12 PM
After all, yes it's true that you need skills to play fast. But that's not the only point!! If it was about that, then Alex Lifeson and Brian May are the biggest failures of the rock history...-_-

LOL that quote is epic xD~  And really true - i mean, i agree with you. Ok, i personally prefer Pata over hide but c'mon... it's an endless discussion... aren't people getting tired of it?

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 02:10:10 PM
I don't know Mav, truly.

I mean ok, having a personal preferance is a whole other story and a logical too.

But isn't it too much to critize those two "objectively" like that?-_-


Blah, curse the youtube cooments xD
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 02:11:50 PM by Yu~Kun »


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Offline Maverick

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Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 03:06:18 PM
§1: NEVER EVER read Youtube comments, if you don't wanna get pissed off! >:(

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



ben

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Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 01:01:29 AM
That's the reason why I am not interested in any of the new bands coming out, I am indifferent to any of the new music or albums being released. It's all copying past styles, trying to show off who can play the fastest, posing on stage etc. Not only in bands, but young kids getting into guitar. They all listen to the same music, have the same aim. No originality. No feeling in their music. Just playing fast and showing off.



Offline denx

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Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 09:08:30 AM
soon they will compare sugizo vs hide or pata vs sugizo, lol

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Offline Maverick

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Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 10:54:10 AM
That's the reason why I am not interested in any of the new bands coming out, I am indifferent to any of the new music or albums being released. It's all copying past styles, trying to show off who can play the fastest, posing on stage etc. Not only in bands, but young kids getting into guitar. They all listen to the same music, have the same aim. No originality. No feeling in their music. Just playing fast and showing off.

Okay that's becoming OT now, but I think you lump together everything with this statement. Well, I thought the same at some point, but you shouln't forget that there are also bands, that may not be too popular ones, but they are there and have some cool unique style that's worth to listen to - like to keep up the tradition of older bands. And I think that is a good thing to do. But well, one has to keep a close up look to find such treasures in the mass of music you can get these days.

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #14 on: April 25, 2009, 11:19:18 AM
Here's my two cents:

Anyone can sit down and learn how to play fast, it's simply a case of memorising a scale or a routine via muscle memory by playing it over and over again.

I'm going to be very controversial here and say that I firmly believe the best guitarists are not the shredders, but the ones who have a distinct technique or unique way of playing - that kind of thing isn't so easily learnt.

For example, Dave Gilmour from Pink Floyd and his amazing control of note bends, tremolo technique and bluesy inclined playing style in a prog rock setting. If you ask me, he's a better guitarist than someone like Paul Gilbert or Buckethead. While they are both shredders and amazing players of the guitar their greatness is EASY to copy, as long as you are willing to put the hours in to practice the same old runs again and again and again.



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #15 on: April 25, 2009, 11:45:57 AM
well i think both pata and hide have unique playing...and that's why i'm angry when they measure their abilities with speed etc


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Offline finndave

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Reply #16 on: April 25, 2009, 12:12:34 PM
It's a common issue.
Some people seem to think that speed is what counts in guitar playing.
I'm a guitarist and while Pata might be a better technical guitarist that doesn't make him a better guitarist than hide overall.
I love listening to fast guitarists, I also love listening to slow guitarists. It doesn't really make a difference how fast you play, the tempo is just another way to express yourself.

In my opinion they were both at their best when they were playing together, that's why you can't really compare them with each other.



Offline KRazyJess

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Reply #17 on: April 25, 2009, 12:24:44 PM
Content deleted.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 11:49:15 AM by KRazyJess »



Offline Rafaell

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Reply #18 on: April 25, 2009, 01:07:22 PM
Pata or Hide. Who cares who is/was better. Hide was great, Pata is great, together they were the best.



Offline Hyunkel

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Reply #19 on: April 27, 2009, 05:58:13 AM
hide was the lead guitarist
Pata the rythm's one

That's all, not the same role

..Close your eyes and I'll kill you in the rain...

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Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 06:43:41 AM



That is why you always hear Toshi yell "hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiideh"! before a solo comes on. He hardly yells ''PATAAA'' unless he is introducing the members haha.



LOL this one killed me xDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


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Offline Matthias

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Reply #21 on: April 27, 2009, 07:23:44 AM
hide was the lead guitarist
Pata the rythm's one

That's all, not the same role

That's not the way I see it, maybe in the later X Japan Days hide had more solospots and Pata was more on rythmn guitar, but in the beginning Pata also played a lot of solo and hide rythmn.



Offline Sander

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Reply #22 on: April 27, 2009, 07:31:42 AM
I think people here mean Pata's solo work, when they talk about his technique.

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Offline Lucs

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Reply #23 on: April 27, 2009, 08:51:31 AM
I don't have any preference for hide or Pata. I like them both. They are very different, in about everything. Different kind of guitar playing, different character etc...

When it comes to such guitarists, I think there's no way to say that one is better than another. It's just totally subjective. The feeling of a guitarist is not something you can measure.

Also, as Mav said, do NEVER read Youtube comments.


Offline visualrocker69

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Reply #24 on: December 09, 2009, 06:24:04 PM
I think it's just more of a matter of hide's technique being a bit awkward (especially his picking hand) and Pata just being seen as a reliable, solid guitarist who can hold his own.

... but then that quickly falls apart. If conventional technique were the measure of greatness, where would that put Marty Friedman? The angle of his wrist looks like a broken bird wing ffs. And Richie Blackmore using his thumb to fret the low G note in Burn - that's strictly a no-no according to traditional rules. But these are the very things make the players the unique individuals they are, and that IMO is the more valuable than conformity to conventional technique.

Maybe Pata is in fact more reliable (when he's not too drunk/lazy/apathetic to keep the sloppiness out of his playing, that is) but I enjoy listening to hide's playing wayyy more, by far. There are a few exceptions - Pata's solo in Sadistic Desire is incredibly moving, though I do tend to prefer the old version.

Anyway, Sugizo's better than both of 'em so haters can suck it ;D

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline Jorge

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Reply #25 on: December 09, 2009, 07:16:22 PM
People do this all the time when it comes to guitarists (and other musicians for that matter) and their video's. I love seeing guys flaming about Steve Vai or Joe Satriani (and the occasional prick that brings Guthrie Govan to the question, just to act like an elitist prick) being the better one, doing so while both of the guitarists have deep respect voor each other and their respective ability. Its crazy ;D

And thats not even talking about the fact dat guitar playing is not a sport, its doing something musical. There are no rules, there are no standards and there are no boundaries. So what would be the specs to judge somebody by?



Offline MIHO

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Reply #26 on: December 09, 2009, 08:35:12 PM
And thats not even talking about the fact dat guitar playing is not a sport, its doing something musical. There are no rules, there are no standards and there are no boundaries. So what would be the specs to judge somebody by?

Agreed. I find topics like these just time-wasting and pointless.



Offline X NUT

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Reply #27 on: December 09, 2009, 09:10:49 PM
Comparisons like this is stupid. Reminds me of the comparison of Jun vs hide vs Pata. I really don't care who is better technically. I listen to X for the music. I'm a huge fan of guitar instrumental albums and there are guitarists out there who are better technically than Jun, hide and Pata put together.



Offline dilbot

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Reply #28 on: December 28, 2009, 04:51:37 AM
How is their guitar work anyways? Fairly standard in the rock/metal genre? Maybe a little more unique than others?