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Thread deletion AGAIN?

Hollywood · 4625

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Offline Hollywood

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on: August 30, 2008, 05:38:14 AM
So, a couple days ago, there was a thread in the Taiji subforum that had "X no Sei to Shi" in the title (don't remember the exact title).  One of the newer forum members-- I'm pretty sure it was replicalover, but please correct me if I'm wrong-- had made a thread where she posted a link to that website that has English translations of Taiji's book, and copy&pasted a few chapters of it as well.

Today I noticed that her thread is gone.

Interestingly, you will notice in replicalover's profile that it says she has 11 posts-- but when you click "show the last posts of this person", only five posts appear.  Clearly, some of her posts have been deleted.

Why the hell was that thread deleted?  There is nothing in the rules that prohibits posting links to translations nor copy&pasting them in X Freaks.  The translations were not even unsourced, given that she included a link to the source webpage.

This gets even more fun when we remember the great pains that PN goes through to prevent any translations other than her own from appearing on X Freaks, as well as her aggressively negative attitude towards Taiji's book (X no Sei to Shi) in general.

So, why was that thread deleted, and who deleted it?  All signs point toward another case of PN (or someone acting on her behalf) randomly deleting stuff that didn't break any rules-- but hey, prove me wrong?

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Offline Sander

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Reply #1 on: August 30, 2008, 10:52:48 AM
And I was afraid we got rid of you already.


Anyway, what happened here was a little misunderstanding and the thread has been moved back for now.

I cannot exclude the possibility of removing the topic in the future, but it needs further discussion in the mods subforum.

(By the way, under current rules the removal of this topic is possible but maybe questionable. Read the whole rules thread and you'll see what I mean.)

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Offline Anna

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Reply #2 on: August 30, 2008, 01:59:59 PM
Quote
And I was afraid we got rid of you already.

Charming.

As for the "little misunderstanding" - may I know what  little misunderstanding? Somebody's hand slipped and deleted the thread?

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Offline Sander

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Reply #3 on: August 30, 2008, 02:16:57 PM
No, misinterpretation of the rules.

And HONESTLY, considering the last posts Hollywood has made, I thought that he had left us for good.

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Offline Anna

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Reply #4 on: August 30, 2008, 02:26:40 PM
That's not really the point, I guess.

Anyway, can You please be slightly more specific about the misinterpretation? For example what exactly was misunderstood and who did it? I'm just curious.

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Offline Hollywood

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Reply #5 on: August 30, 2008, 05:36:50 PM
Quote from: Hypno
And I was afraid we got rid of you already.
Yeah, and I thought you were going to de-admin PN the next time she screws up and deletes a non-rulebreaking thread.  Guess that makes us both wrong. ;)

Quote from: Hypno
(By the way, under current rules the removal of this topic is possible but maybe questionable. Read the whole rules thread and you'll see what I mean.)

Let's see:
Quote from: The Rules
2. When posting translations or rumors, please include the source (translator) and a disclaimer to remind others that there may be mistakes or other inaccuracies. Also post a link/reference to the original source (magazine/website/etc), if possible. Please note that we consider everything not confirmed by an official site to be a rumor.
On replicalover's thread, she included the source (a link to the website), which itself includes a link to a site where one can purchase the original (out-of-print) book.  So how exactly was that thread "questionable" at all?  It didn't violate any rules.  If the issue was the lack of a disclaimer, surely a friendly PM-- or PN posting a disclaimer on the thread herself-- could have cleared that up.

You and PN owe replicalover a public apology.

And I'm very sure it was PN who did this.  If I'm not mistaken, the only people who have the power to delete threads in that subforum are Camicat and the three admins.  It wasn't Camicat.  Given the way you're talking, it wasn't you.  That leaves PN and ferret.  I'm quite sure it wasn't ferret.

I'd also like an explanation about this "little misunderstanding".  I'd also like to see you (Hypno) properly admit that PN has abused her admin power and violated the rules of your forum by deleting yet another non-rulebreaking thread.

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Offline darkcat21

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Reply #6 on: August 30, 2008, 10:05:41 PM
Why you always come up with the same excuses? misinterpretation, mistakes, etc. ?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2008, 11:47:03 PM by darkcat21 »

hi there


Offline Sander

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Reply #7 on: August 31, 2008, 10:16:07 AM
Yeah, and I thought you were going to de-admin PN the next time she screws up and deletes a non-rulebreaking thread.  Guess that makes us both wrong. ;)
Deleted? The thread is still there...

Let's see:
*blah blah*
See disclaimer #2.


And darkcat, people tend to make same mistakes several times. Shit happens.

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Offline Anna

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Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 04:06:21 PM
Quote
And darkcat, people tend to make same mistakes several times. Shit happens.

Oh woe. Why making rules at all then? If I promise not to do something again and then I still do it, then it's okay because it's still the same old mistake?

And I am asking again, Hypno: Will You please specify what kind of "misunderstanding" it was and who commited it? Thanks.

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Offline Hollywood

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Reply #9 on: August 31, 2008, 08:48:22 PM
Quote from: Hypno
Deleted? The thread is still there...
Oh, please.  As you said yourself, "the thread has been moved back for now".  It had been deleted.  I'm sure it would not have been moved back at all if no one had pointed out that it was gone.

Quote from: Hypno
See disclaimer #2.
See rule #2.  I'll post it for you again and highlight the fun parts:
Quote from: The Rules
2. When posting translations or rumors, please include the source (translator) and a disclaimer to remind others that there may be mistakes or other inaccuracies. Also post a link/reference to the original source (magazine/website/etc), if possible. Please note that we consider everything not confirmed by an official site to be a rumor.
Stop trying to weasel out of your own rules just to protect PN.  The posting of translations, including translations of published materials, is clearly allowed on X Freaks.  If it were not allowed, you would not have a rule that starts out with "when posting translations".

Quote from: Hypno
And darkcat, people tend to make same mistakes several times. Shit happens.
That's ironic, considering that you banned darkcat for making one "mistake" and now are defending PN's continual "mistakes" rather than de-adminning her.  You specifically told me that she would be de-adminned if she screwed up again.  What happened to that?

By the way, you and PN still owe replicalover a public apology for PN's wrongful deletion of her non-rulebreaking thread.  Why do you refuse to apologize for this?  Obviously, if the thread were actually breaking any rules, you would not have moved it back at all.

Quote from: Anna
And I am asking again, Hypno: Will You please specify what kind of "misunderstanding" it was and who commited it? Thanks.
Seconded.  How about some answers, Hypno?

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Offline Sander

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Reply #10 on: August 31, 2008, 09:14:29 PM
Oh, please.  As you said yourself, "the thread has been moved back for now".  It had been deleted.  I'm sure it would not have been moved back at all if no one had pointed out that it was gone.
It was removed. Had it been deleted, we couldn't have brought it back.

See rule #2.  I'll post it for you again and highlight the fun parts:
*blah blah*
It followed the second rule. So what? It also followed all the other rules, but according to disclaimer #2, it could have been removed. Simple.

By the way, fyi, it wasn't removed until after a post in the mods subforum where two of the staff members spoke and several others had the chance.

That's ironic, considering that you banned darkcat for making one "mistake" and now are defending PN's continual "mistakes" rather than de-adminning her.  You specifically told me that she would be de-adminned if she screwed up again.  What happened to that?
Don't compare a bird and a fish.

By the way, you and PN still owe replicalover a public apology for PN's wrongful deletion of her non-rulebreaking thread.  Why do you refuse to apologize for this?  Obviously, if the thread were actually breaking any rules, you would not have moved it back at all.
a) It wasn't deleted
b) I didn't remove it
c) How do you know we haven't contacted replicalover yet? I don't know if we have, but how could you?


If you only come here to find the tiniest faults in our actions and whine, then please, don't bother to come at all.

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Offline Anna

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Reply #11 on: August 31, 2008, 09:20:07 PM
Quote
If you only come here to find the tiniest faults in our actions and whine, then please, don't bother to come at all.

Far from whining, Hypno. Hollywood made a pretty good point.

And will You please answer me? I guess there is nothing wrong about my question.

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Offline Hollywood

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Reply #12 on: August 31, 2008, 10:38:00 PM
Hypno, you haven't answered this question:
Quote from: Hollywood
You specifically told me that she would be de-adminned if she screwed up again.  What happened to that?

Quote from: Hypno
It was removed. Had it been deleted, we couldn't have brought it back.
OK, "removed" then.  I don't give a rat's ass about what you want to call it.  The point-- as you well know-- is that once upon a time there was a non-rulebreaking thread, and then the next day it wasn't there.

Quote from: Hypno
It followed the second rule. So what? It also followed all the other rules, but according to disclaimer #2, it could have been removed. Simple.
If translations are not allowed, why do you have a rule about what to do when you post translations?  If translations are not allowed here, please explain to me why rule #2 exists, what it means, and what it applies to.

Quote from: Hypno
c) How do you know we haven't contacted replicalover yet? I don't know if we have, but how could you?
Because if you had made any kind of good-faith effort to do so, I'm sure you would have answered with something closer to "we have already contacted replicalover and apologized, thank you for your concern."

However, it would ease concerns about abusive admin behavior if you and PN (I'm assuming it was PN who did this, since you haven't denied that) would apologize to replicalover in public so that everyone can see your good intentions.  You have a great opportunity here to show everyone what honest, upstanding, well-intentioned admins you are.  I suggest you take it.

Quote from: Hypno
If you only come here to find the tiniest faults in our actions and whine, then please, don't bother to come at all.
If I'm breaking any rules, you are of course welcome to warn or ban me.

Now, please answer Anna's questions.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2008, 10:40:21 PM by Hollywood »

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Offline Anna

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Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 04:42:56 PM
Ah, days are passing, summer has left and leaves are slowly turning yellow... and still no reply. That saddens my heart, you can't even imagine. :)

Anyway, Hypno, I guess my question was simple enough and was the whole situation as innocent as implied, it could have been replied to several times by now (you could have done it even by PM, you know?). You chose not to (I guess you have a good role model), so I will pursue this conversation privately now, all right? It probably won't be something you could "frame and put up on the wall" (as we say here in my country), but it seems to be the only option left.   

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Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #14 on: September 03, 2008, 07:40:49 PM
Okay, guys. Due to being mod in this section, I decided to close that thread and possibly even remove/delete it because of the breach of certain other rules. I didn't know of this thread, because I'm not around that often these days so I missed to join the conversation between staff members early enough.

Just for your information, the reason why I would have closed/deleted that thread:
1. There is already a thread about this topic here - I'm thinking of adding the booktitle to its name so that it's clearer to everyone (since Taiji also has released another book, when I'm not mistaken).
2. There's neither a disclaimer, that the translations might be not perfect due to not being authorized, nor is the name of the translator mentioned. It's no official document, so people should be sceptical, if it's all the right way and so on and so on...
3. Doubleposts with very much content, which isn't really necessary, since everyone is able to click that link.

Just waiting for an ok - if there'll be one, the thread will be deleted/moved/whatever is suggested then.  :P Just wanted to let you know...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 07:46:32 PM by VioletCamicat »

mod mode

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Offline Ryo-Ohki

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Reply #15 on: September 03, 2008, 08:23:17 PM
Ah, days are passing, summer has left and leaves are slowly turning yellow... and still no reply. That saddens my heart, you can't even imagine. :)

Anyway, Hypno, I guess my question was simple enough and was the whole situation as innocent as implied, it could have been replied to several times by now (you could have done it even by PM, you know?). You chose not to (I guess you have a good role model), so I will pursue this conversation privately now, all right? It probably won't be something you could "frame and put up on the wall" (as we say here in my country), but it seems to be the only option left.  

** hugs poor Anna** Jeesh how long does it take for one to pull their brain out and answer a few questions



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Offline Anna

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Reply #16 on: September 03, 2008, 08:45:55 PM
It's okay, I got all the answers I wanted now.  ;)

And CamiCat, thanks for Your bit, too.  :)


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Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #17 on: September 04, 2008, 08:12:55 PM
Just to let you all know, so that you don't wonder: Thread is removed now.
Read the reasons in my post before.
Further actions: renamed old Taiji thread (booktitle added) and sent poster of the new thread a message.

Yo, peace! ;D

mod mode

And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
"Smile and be happy - it could have become worse!"
So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #18 on: September 05, 2008, 01:42:48 AM
Thanks, Camicat, I appreciate your explanation.

Hypno, PN, etc.-- I highly suggest you take Camicat's posts here as an example of normal staff behavior.  You'll notice that she fully explained her actions in a way that was clear, friendly, drama-free, and actually made sense according to forum rules.

As opposed to, you know, attempting to cover for someone who deletes a thread for entirely the wrong reasons, pretending the rules mean something they obviously don't, and then playing the silent game when people start asking you questions you can't answer.

How such a rational and level-headed staffer manages to survive in the sea of BS, I don't know, but you're damn lucky to have her. :)  Thanks again, Camicat.

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]