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WTF?

Beauty/Broken · 13634

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Offline Beauty/Broken

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on: July 27, 2008, 01:58:57 PM
Anyone who has visited Yoshiki's myspace recently will probably realise that his date of birth is no longer listed on the page, and his age is now written as being "42 - 43" - the reason being that one of Yoshiki's 'deputies' in Japan as been sparking 'edit wars' removing Yoshiki's actual date of birth on an apparent order from Yoshiki himself stating that he believes the listing of his birth date constitutes as an invasion of privacy.

Three words: What the fizzuck?

Since when has Wikipedia constituted as the personal vanity website of a celebrity? I though it was supposed to be an objective, unbiased and untwisted source of concise information - what right does Yoshiki have to insist that such a small detail such as his birth date be non-disclosed? He may be sensitive about his age, I can understand that, but what good will forcing his fans and the Wikipedians to not disclose it actually do? Considering that his birth date is public knowledge anyway, it seems like an extremely bizzare step to make.

The Wikipedians have managed to reach a compromise in that they add a vague "42 - 43" in respect to his age, but to me it seems like an extremely bizzare situation to occur.

If Yoshiki can complain and have his date of birth removed then surely it opens up the door for celebrities, companies and individuals to force Wikipedia to remove information about them which they don't want to be public knowledge such as personal problems and scandals - and that just sucks.



Offline Lucs

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Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 02:03:12 PM
I guess as birthday is a personal information, he has the right (as everybody has) to ask them to remove it. Just a guess though.


Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 02:10:14 PM
I guess as birthday is a personal information, he has the right (as everybody has) to ask them to remove it. Just a guess though.

Well if that is the case he then surely would have the right to ask to remove any piece of information such as his name, his musical activity, his personal life etc.

Forcing to have this single piece of information hidden is one small thing, but it opens up the door to so much else - things which would make Wikipedia little more than a vanity website.

Mid-life crisis much, Yoshiki? :p



Offline Lucs

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Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 02:13:04 PM
Well I think that some said he wanted his age to be removed because X Japan is back and while he was in X Japan, his age has always been "X" 8)

So maybe it's just for that. Again, just a guess !

It could be mid-lif crisis too, but I guess we'll never know...


Offline xScQ

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Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 02:19:55 PM
It's indeed a bit strange that suddenly it has changed, but I think it might also have something to do with the fact that every paragraph entered into Wikipedia needs a credible, official source for it to be considered legitimate information. And I think that because Yoshiki always kept this information from people in the majority of releases and other media, it is now entered into Wikipedia in this form to represent that. So yeah, basically what Lucs said.



Offline aruzo

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Reply #5 on: July 27, 2008, 05:46:07 PM
Wikipedia was created so we could find out information. I don't agree with Yoshiki being able to remove his date of birth because all the information is just taken from links anyway meaning you could post anything there aslong as it has a citation. So, the information posted about Yoshiki is just a compilation of several website links so that people can fuse lots of information for other people. Yeah this is bery bizarre and yes "WTF!".



Offline Anna

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Reply #6 on: July 27, 2008, 05:48:33 PM
I think the date of his birth is stated in Watashi wa akiramenai book, which I believe is an official source, as it had to be approved by Yoshiki himself.
And indeed, I very much feel like WTF.

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Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #7 on: July 27, 2008, 05:55:51 PM
It's indeed a bit strange that suddenly it has changed, but I think it might also have something to do with the fact that every paragraph entered into Wikipedia needs a credible, official source for it to be considered legitimate information. And I think that because Yoshiki always kept this information from people in the majority of releases and other media, it is now entered into Wikipedia in this form to represent that. So yeah, basically what Lucs said.

There are several official and reliable sources which can verify Yoshiki's exact age, it just seems that all of a sudden he does not want it to be public information anymore.



Offline xScQ

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Reply #8 on: July 27, 2008, 07:40:45 PM
I think the date of his birth is stated in Watashi wa akiramenai book, which I believe is an official source, as it had to be approved by Yoshiki himself.
And indeed, I very much feel like WTF.

Wikipedia needs hands on material, so unless Yoshiki approves his book to be scanned and available for let's say Wikimedia Commons, it's not going to be accepted. You need something like a JRR article or an X JAPAN news entry stating his birthdate for it to become legitimate information to be used on Wikipedia. So why don't we start looking for something alike? :)



Offline Ragna

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Reply #9 on: July 27, 2008, 08:45:29 PM
Really strange. His birth date can be seen in the other languages Wiki articles.

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Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #10 on: July 27, 2008, 09:42:13 PM
I think the date of his birth is stated in Watashi wa akiramenai book, which I believe is an official source, as it had to be approved by Yoshiki himself.
And indeed, I very much feel like WTF.
Wikipedia needs hands on material, so unless Yoshiki approves his book to be scanned and available for let's say Wikimedia Commons, it's not going to be accepted. You need something like a JRR article or an X JAPAN news entry stating his birthdate for it to become legitimate information to be used on Wikipedia. So why don't we start looking for something alike? :)

Erm yeah, there is a JRR article about Y-day, written by the lovely PN for Yoshiki's birthday last year. Re-read the rest of the topic, it is not a problem about a lack of credible material.

I'll say it again if you haven't read : It's not a problem about having a lack of sources. The problem is that someone claiming he works for Yoshiki has came along and said "you're not allowed to write this".
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 09:44:06 PM by Beauty/Broken »



Offline xScQ

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Reply #11 on: July 27, 2008, 10:06:43 PM
Well in that case I think someone just wants to continue that tradition. I don't see why Wikipedia would cooperate on that. You should be able to change it back, right? I have never seen any Wikipedia statement saying artists/individuals can make these kind of changes. But well, if Yoshiki wants it like this, let him have it. It's the silliest thing I have heard of in a long time, though theres probably something to it knowing him. People might be willing to know things like this and will instead search on on the internet for X JAPAN.. or something ?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 10:11:12 PM by xScQ »



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #12 on: July 27, 2008, 10:30:34 PM
There was a massive edit war and it resulted in a wikipedia admin getting involved, they have reached a compromise to some extent - but it means that currently the negotiations are in dead lock to the extent that his actual date of birth cannot be written.

You're right, it's extremely silly - the craziest thing ever, but it's what Yoshiki wants so I guess us, as fans, need to accept that - the only problem is that Yoshiki has no right to demand such a thing of Wikipedia. :(

Like I said before: Mid-life crisis much?  :P



Offline aruzo

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Reply #13 on: July 27, 2008, 10:42:40 PM
Haha, that is soooo bad. This is the stupidest thing ever.



Offline Maverick

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Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 06:51:40 AM
No, I don't think it's stupid. Actually, his birthday is 'X' and so I don't wonder really why there's no actual date of his birthday written. Aside from that, after the X reunion all japanese magazines also stopped to write down his date of birth, so why not Wikipedia and MySpace, which he actually has under his control, as well? though most fans know his birthday :P
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 07:57:00 AM by Maverick »

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Offline mC

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Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 08:42:18 AM
I don't really think it is that big of an issue weather we know the date of birth of someone or not. I mean, what difference does it make...you're not planning to marry him are you?



Offline Menacia

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Reply #16 on: July 28, 2008, 10:49:28 AM
indeed it ain't that big an issue. Only the fact, that even we somehow seemed to be allowed to know in the last couple of years, it is ridiculous to try to hide it again.



Offline Maverick

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Reply #17 on: July 28, 2008, 12:36:15 PM
it's not ridiculous IMO... that's Yoshiki's image in X and when the band reunited why should he change that image now? o__O; I mean, I know his age, but i'd still say 'X' :P

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Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #18 on: July 28, 2008, 01:02:47 PM
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia though..



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #19 on: July 28, 2008, 01:53:00 PM
No, I don't think it's stupid. Actually, his birthday is 'X' and so I don't wonder really why there's no actual date of his birthday written. Aside from that, after the X reunion all japanese magazines also stopped to write down his date of birth, so why not Wikipedia and MySpace, which he actually has under his control, as well? though most fans know his birthday :P

He doesn't really have control over Wikipedia - it's not an official site or an official source, it's a third party document which seeks to find an objective medium between sources of information. My aunty has a Wikipedia page made for her, it doesn't mean she can control what is written about her - anything but.



Offline Maverick

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Reply #20 on: July 28, 2008, 04:02:00 PM
But if the authors respect the person they write about, they can take care about what they write there ;)

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Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #21 on: July 28, 2008, 05:36:17 PM
But if the authors respect the person they write about, they can take care about what they write there ;)

Erm... Wikipedia isn't about respect - it's about finding an objective medium for information. I'm pretty sure if someone were just to sugar-coat an article because they see the subject as being sweetness and light the admins and more adept Wikipedians would come down on the person like a tonne of bricks.



Offline Maverick

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Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 07:29:34 AM
Erm... Wikipedia isn't about respect - it's about finding an objective medium for information. I'm pretty sure if someone were just to sugar-coat an article because they see the subject as being sweetness and light the admins and more adept Wikipedians would come down on the person like a tonne of bricks.

That doesn't mean that everything HAS to be written there.

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Offline aruzo

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Reply #23 on: July 30, 2008, 04:49:12 AM
Erm... Wikipedia isn't about respect - it's about finding an objective medium for information. I'm pretty sure if someone were just to sugar-coat an article because they see the subject as being sweetness and light the admins and more adept Wikipedians would come down on the person like a tonne of bricks.

That doesn't mean that everything HAS to be written there.

The whole point of it is for an audience to compile information so everyone can learn/use. It has nothing to do with legal terms. Just what users find THEMSELVES and put together. It's not all nessasary true it's just a compilation of links and resources and is a third party as broken says. It's just users making information for everybody!



Offline jigokugal

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Reply #24 on: July 30, 2008, 10:27:56 AM
The thing is, we don't know if that so called deputy of Yoshiki is truly official.
It's true that in the past Yoshiki was very secretive on any detailed information about him, however, nowadays such info is found pretty randomly in couple of sources, including watashi wa akiramenai.
So, i'm not convinced enough that the removal order of date of birth actually came from his mouth.
In Yoshiki's myspace, his age or date of birth is never mentioned, though I know what you meant at the first post is 'wikipedia' instead of 'myspace'
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 10:36:25 AM by jigokugal »

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Offline matsumoto

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Reply #25 on: August 07, 2008, 04:10:27 PM
In case that is true, he'd better walk around with a 'Midlife-Crisis' tattoo on his forehead.

Anyway, mentioning one's birthdate is not a crime nor even an invasion of privacy. In fact, anything that's written on your ID card is subject to public knowledge. Legally, you can't hide such information about yourself. Many artists use pen-names and pseudonyms and have pretentious whims concerning the revelation of their real age, heritage and such, but in the end, they have no legal right to prevent anyone from publishing that. If the information is innacurate or untrue, however, then that's the only case the authors can be accused of difamation.

(this is the law in my country, don't know about the US, though)

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Offline Maverick

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Reply #26 on: August 20, 2008, 06:53:56 AM
Sure and everyone will be very happy when personal dates are given out to everyone - naturally, I understand that totally. An ID card you have to carry around - but it's not tattooed on your forehead.
And I'd suggest you to just have a look at older X stuff and see what's written there about Yoshiki's date of birth. That has not a bit to do with midlife crises or such

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Offline Sander

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Reply #27 on: August 20, 2008, 11:44:09 AM
In fact, anything that's written on your ID card is subject to public knowledge.
Well, here you can do a lot of damage with just the person's ID number, like take loans etc. So I think that statement is either wrong or only allowed there.

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Offline Anna

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Reply #28 on: August 20, 2008, 12:47:14 PM
Quote
Sure and everyone will be very happy when personal dates are given out to everyone - naturally, I understand that totally. An ID card you have to carry around - but it's not tattooed on your forehead.
And I'd suggest you to just have a look at older X stuff and see what's written there about Yoshiki's date of birth. That has not a bit to do with midlife crises or such

Come one, don't blow it out of proportion.
Plus, I don't think the whole "look at older X stuff" is relevant here. We are talking about the situation today and about encyclopedia, not CD booklets.

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Offline Maverick

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Reply #29 on: August 20, 2008, 02:32:36 PM
if so i can also say that thread is blown out of proportion since it's simply about a number.
And I think that has very much to do with the days back then since the image of X IMO shouldn't be changed in that sense, And I'd love to see it that way as it was way back then. To me, the age is still 'X' although I KNOW the actual date, but that real number doesn't mean anything at all. Is it that wrong to respect it the way it is? That's like the first step up to the point when someone starts to write what Yoshiki (or whoever) got in his freezer! It's irrelevant and has nothing to do with his activities as stage person and as musician - that stage persona is what should be of interrest and not the person in private. And that also applies to an encyclopedia.

And re Hypno: Yes, and I'd be really pissed off, if someone would give out MY personal datas without any permission  >:(
« Last Edit: August 20, 2008, 02:39:13 PM by Maverick »

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