Oh no, he's wearing THAT uniform

[ferret]

We've already been dicussing it here and in some other threads but now that we have this thread, please keep all the Nazi wank in here.

This thread was made to discuss Japanese musicians and their "fascination" with Third Reich uniforms/symbols etc.

Recent example



wank on!

[Sander]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they were allies with Germany in WW2?

[Anna]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they were allies with Germany in WW2?

... and that, being too busy with their idea of Greater East Asia (and raping Nanking), they have never really grasped the scope of the atrocities done by the rest of Axis - or pretty much anything else apart from the fact that they had "cool" uniforms.

[Maverick]

... and that, being too busy with their idea of Greater East Asia (and raping Nanking), they have never really grasped the scope of the atrocities done by the rest of Axis - or pretty much anything else apart from the fact that they had "cool" uniforms.

uhm well, that way we could ask back. How many people know like in Germany what happened in the east then? Actually, I don't know even that much about Italy's history in that case.
However, I also think there's kinda not outspoken sympathy to Germany.
Well, I don't like it to see those signs and uniforms, but then again I understand it in some way - like expressing sth like a 'fuck off' attitude, something 'forbidden', symbolizing the evil itself and with wearing showing some effect which looks kinda 'cool'

And I think beauty/broken said in the Jun thread that that's not such a big deal anymore.
Well, I think yes, it's in some way history, but then again I think about the time when I see a German flag (and I don't even think about the nazi-flag then)... to me personally, it's weird to see and I don't feel such patriotism by myself, so that I find other persons who are even pro-nazi make me rather angry than think about it like they were the biggest joke on earth...

[Anna]

uhm well, that way we could ask back. How many people know like in Germany what happened in the east then? Actually, I don't know even that much about Italy's history in that case.

I certainly agree that not many people know, but that doesn't contradict anything.

[Maverick]

Never said it contradicts (hey, the Japanese war flag is also allowed here, and noone thinks anything bad about it) I just try to see it the other way round to make it probably even better understandable for myself

[Beauty/Broken]

And I think beauty/broken said in the Jun thread that that's not such a big deal anymore.
Well, I think yes, it's in some way history, but then again I think about the time when I see a German flag (and I don't even think about the nazi-flag then)... to me personally, it's weird to see and I don't feel such patriotism by myself, so that I find other persons who are even pro-nazi make me rather angry than think about it like they were the biggest joke on earth...

If you showed my grandma a Nazi symbol she would probably react in a very upset way - but that's because as a child she spent numerous nights going to bed in a damp hole in her back garden covered with a few layers of scrap metal with no chance of sleep due to the fact that German planes were flying overhead dropping bombs all around her. If I could count every time she told me a story about how she would go to bed hungry or how her dad, aged 25, was murdered by German SS officers or how her uncle was tortured in a Japanese concentration camp I would probably be going into the thousands. To her, the Nazi symbol represents a childhood of fear and loss so if she were to be offended by the symbol there would be no way I would disagree with her premise - if anyone here went through that childhood you would no doubt agree.

As for modern day life, I think we need to draw a line between "Nazi" and "Right Wing Facism". Nazi's are a joke in the 21st century, Neo Nazi's have little, if any, political power. Facism, however, is clearly alive and well in most countries - France's nationalist party is scarily on the rise - but that doesn't mean by any measure that World War 3 and Nazi rebirth is around the corner - the 99% majority of these nationalist parties don't identify with the Nazi's or Neo Nazi's at all.

The other day in town I saw a skin-head wearing a Nazi armband - was I offended? No. Did any people stop and stare? No.

In short: Nazi's insignia in this day and age is a complete gimmick, and any movement which tries to take itself seriously is a joke to others. Check out "Prussian Blue" for details.

[Sander]

And I hate that WW2 bad stuff is all about the Nazis... Do you know how many innocent people the Soviet Union sent to Siberia and/or killed? How many problems it created to Estonia, Latvia (and possibly others) with bringing people from other Soviet countries to work and live here (Estonia has 25,6% ethnic Russians, Latvia 27.3%, Riga around 50% and Tallinn 36.5%)...

[Beauty/Broken]

And I hate that WW2 bad stuff is all about the Nazis... Do you know how many innocent people the Soviet Union sent to Siberia and/or killed? How many problems it created to Estonia, Latvia (and possibly others) with bringing people from other Soviet countries to work and live here (Estonia has 25,6% ethnic Russians, Latvia 27.3%, Riga around 50% and Tallinn 36.5%)...

World War 2 wasn't just the Nazi's at all - any nation who fought and raised a gun are to blame for the horrors that went on. The Nazi's just tend to get the most exposure because the imperial growth in Germany and it's invasion of other countries turned out to be the catalyst for all out war. The way it tends to work is that Nazi's are most often associated with the things that went on as they are blamed for starting the war to begin with.

Having said that, World War 2 has its routes in the run up to World War 1 - which was a war of aquisition and greed between the German and British Empires. If World War 1 didn't happen then it's almost certain things wouldn't have happened the same way - the German imperial growth was fuelled by the injustice that the German people felt after the strict sanctions which were placed on the nation through the treaty of versailles.

[Sander]

Yeah, WW2 was pretty much caused by the Versailles treaty.

[Lord Arioch]

Well, it was a bit more complicated than that...

[aruzo]

I seen a video of Sugizo wearing a leather Nazi uniform. All I think it is for, is like a visual shock affect on the audience. They don't mean nothing by it ofcourse just that they think it's "cool" or something. Tbh, I don't care about any of that nazi stuff, if I was to do it, it would only be to LOOK cool. C'mon lets face it, nazi uniforms were sexy....that doesn't mean im a nazi?

[aaroni]

And I hate that WW2 bad stuff is all about the Nazis... Do you know how many innocent people the Soviet Union sent to Siberia and/or killed? How many problems it created to Estonia, Latvia (and possibly others) with bringing people from other Soviet countries to work and live here (Estonia has 25,6% ethnic Russians, Latvia 27.3%, Riga around 50% and Tallinn 36.5%)...

Not to mention the fact here in Canada we sent anybody of Japanese decent to concentration camps. The Canadian government treated them better than the Nazis did the Jews of course, but still, it was not right to do in any way, shape or form. It was racial profiling, plain and simple.

As for Japanese musicians wearing Nazi-eqsue uniforms, it doesn't really bother me, despite my Jewishness. The Nazi were snappy dressers! Horrible people, but as far as millitary uniforms go, they did have a fashion sense. I'm sure none of the musicians wearing that clothing are promoting Nazism, so it doesn't bother me.

[Maverick]

@aaroni: the fashion sense is true x'D

But well, I don't know if it's just me, but I personally remember everything what's behind it - all the cruel history and also I think that shouldn't be forgotten...
Since that can too easily happen once again (anybody ever read 'The wave'?... just found out some days ago personally that's too easy to happen)

And to come back to the uniforms: I won't bother if I know what's the meaning behind it. Ok, one can speculate and guess, what I do by myself, as well. But for some reason I would like to see kinda statement - especcially of bands like Mephistopheles, Rommel (ee; errr isn't that contradictory?), Aushvitz...

[Anna]

Since that can too easily happen once again (anybody ever read 'The wave'?... just found out some days ago personally that's too easy to happen

So true. Lately, I really have the same feelings...  Our political scene is depressing.

[aaroni]

Since that can too easily happen once again (anybody ever read 'The wave'?... just found out some days ago personally that's too easy to happen

So true. Lately, I really have the same feelings...  Our political scene is depressing.

Same here. Ever since I saw that footage a few days after 9/11 of some woman yelling insults at a Muslim whose only crime was proudly displaying their reiligion. I feel for all the muslims out there. Just because a small group of their peers twist their religion and make it something that encourages hatred and destruction, they're all being judged by a majority of people (from what I've seen) as potential terrorists. It's fucking bullshit. Stuff like that is what almost killed my great-grandfather (he was a fighter pilot captured by the nazis, but, luckily, they didn't notice he was a Jew) and, if the third reich's infulence had reached here in Canada, would have probably killed my entire family before I even existed.

I'm probably ranting here, but racial profiling really hits home to me, and really angers me. Both as a man with Jewish ancestory and as a man with a black brother in-law and nephews.

And my grade 10 history teacher was thinking of trying 'the wave' experiment with my class, he decided against it, but yeah, just hearing about the experiment was sort of disturbing. It seems so easy for people to be bred to hate one another.

[Maverick]

Well, there's no need to try 'the wave' experiment once more... I just read that book some time ago once again.. and well... it's just insane and then I had to remember something we made in a course at uni - that was, we separated the class into two groups - one with a 'pro' point of view and one with a 'countra' point of view about a political topic. It doesn't matter what it was about, but thinking of it now, it still shocks me somehow to see how we reacted. Actually, I was in the 'pro' group and although I had rather ideas for the 'contra' group in the beginning, I started to think for my own group - we started to discuss and discuss and the atmoshere really heated up quickly - so that our teacher broke it up after ... i don't know, maybe 20 minutes and said 'it's getting too dangerous' and although i wasn't adressing it to the persons who were actually there, since all were more or less friends for me, i though 'how stupid can one be NOT to agree with 'OUR' point of view - WE are right" and I'm very sure I'd have thought the same way when I'd have stated to discuss for the contra group...

and that has not much to do with uniforms anymore... *drop* Sorry for the OT again =.=;

[Acchi]

Rosenfeld are a Japanese band that use Nazi imagery when they play, i dont know if anyones heard of them, but i think theyr a pretty good band.
Ill make another topic about them now.