New rules

ferret · **Reply #150 on:** June 23, 2008, 03:31:57 PM

Quote from: "MiscastDice"

The only reason I say banned (AND being made where she cannot view the board) rather than just de-adminned IS due to the legal threats. Her continuing presence here (especially if she gets mad and starts pestering Yoshiki and/or his lawyers, and he/they doesn't have more courage than Hypno to tell her to STFU and GTFO and decides to oblige her just to not deal with it all or take her claims at face value) is a threat to the existence of the forum.

...Why are you talking about accusations you have no proof of? The way you exaggerate is funny and scary at the same time, looks like a witch hunt to me (and not only to me, I guess).

Zwanster · **Reply #151 on:** June 23, 2008, 07:59:10 PM

Quote from: "Hollywood"

Quote from: "Zwanster"
Quote from: "leria83"
This is like the never-ending thread.

Tell me about it.

Are either of you currently strapped to a chair, your eyelids propped open with toothpicks, while someone is shoving a laptop in your face and inescapably forcing you to read this thread?

If not, then if you don't like the length of this thread you COULD simply not read it, you know. It's not like you're admins or are otherwise in any way obliged to look at it or comment on it.

I actually am strapped to a chair, but thats a story for another time and forum...

MiscastDice · **Reply #152 on:** June 24, 2008, 06:07:48 AM

Quote from: "ferret"

Quote from: "MiscastDice"
The only reason I say banned (AND being made where she cannot view the board) rather than just de-adminned IS due to the legal threats. Her continuing presence here (especially if she gets mad and starts pestering Yoshiki and/or his lawyers, and he/they doesn't have more courage than Hypno to tell her to STFU and GTFO and decides to oblige her just to not deal with it all or take her claims at face value) is a threat to the existence of the forum.

...Why are you talking about accusations you have no proof of? The way you exaggerate is funny and scary at the same time, looks like a witch hunt to me (and not only to me, I guess).

Bizkitroach mentioned it in his post which has now been moved from public view. PanthereNoire is not averse to legal threats.

ferret · **Reply #153 on:** June 24, 2008, 08:45:13 AM

He said she reported HIM and only him to Yoshiki/street team/whoever because of reposting a pm he received from Yoshiki's myspace (I'm not going to discuss this topic, it was really stupid and annoying, from both counterparts). I don't see how this applies to the whole forum since it was something between the two of them. And this is no proof that PN is threatening Hypno, the hell...?

Hollywood · **Reply #154 on:** June 25, 2008, 06:18:23 PM

While I still don't see cause to ban PN from the forum-- and am not about to accuse people of legal threats when I have no evidence of them-- it's really not such a vast leap of logic to figure that, if PN reported Bizkitroach over such trivia as quoting a one-word private message from Yoshiki, she may also act out against Hypno in a some way if she becomes displeased with him (i.e., if he de-admins her). Or perhaps Hypno is simply concerned that she will and this is why she's still an admin? If any of this is true then I feel sorry for Hypno, but nonetheless, none of this would excuse him from doing something about the situation, getting help if he needs it, and setting things right. In fact, if any of this is true, it would be even more reason that Hypno should do something about it.

Given that neither Hypno nor (especially) PN are exactly being transparent about their motives, it's only to be expected that people will wonder about stuff like this. And let's not forget that PN even tried the old "Yoshiki is watching" routine on me, when she decided to be offended by the phrase "multiorgasmic death-sex".

Stuff like that might actually be effective in coercing a younger, more impressionable "target".

And speaking of Hypno, I'm still awaiting his answers to my questions here.

ferret · **Reply #155 on:** June 25, 2008, 06:36:54 PM

The difference is that at that time the "indicent" happened PN and Lee weren't liking each other all that much anymore (from what I remember) whereas there is no such clash between PN and Hypno (that I know of). They had a little private war in the public parts of the forum after that which was stupid, imo. Why is it so hard to imagine that even omg!evilPN has friends (online)? And that Hypno happens to be one of them.

Many poeple here only see it from one side (yep, the annoying thing the old members always say

) because they missed lots of stuff that's happened here before they joined this forum, that's just the way it is.

Anna · **Reply #156 on:** June 25, 2008, 06:40:42 PM

Quote

Many poeple here only see it from one side (yep, the annoying thing the old members always say Razz ) because they missed lots of stuff that's happened here before they joined this forum, that's just the way it is.

Yes. And there are also some slightly older ones, who remember a lot of history (actually, more than they would like), and still they share many of Hollywood's opinions.

darkcat21 · **Reply #157 on:** June 25, 2008, 06:49:11 PM

Quote from: "ferret"

Many poeple here only see it from one side (yep, the annoying thing the old members always say ) because they missed lots of stuff that's happened here before they joined this forum, that's just the way it is.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

ferret · **Reply #158 on:** June 25, 2008, 06:50:25 PM

I'm one of them, actually (and I think/hope he still knows that), I agree with many of his points (about 86 % :wink:) but I strongly disagree with the things he only knows from hearsay because those are clrearly just from one viewpoint and from one that is too extreme for my softy-peace-loving-trying- to-stay-neutral taste.

Hollywood · **Reply #159 on:** June 25, 2008, 06:53:41 PM

Quote from: "ferret"

The difference is that at that time the "indicent" happened PN and Lee weren't liking each other all that much anymore (from what I remember) whereas there is no such clash between PN and Hypno (that I know of). They had a little private war in the public parts of the forum after that which was stupid, imo. Why is it so hard to imagine that even omg!evilPN has friends (online)? And that Hypno happens to be one of them.

That's why I said "if she becomes displeased with him". I never said nor implied that there is some kind of PN vs. Hypno war currently going on. If Hypno were to de-admin PN, then it's not such a stretch to imagine that we might see something similar to what she did when she decided she didn't like Lee.

But of course, because neither PN nor Hypno discuss their intentions and motives publicly, we can't know any of this for sure.

Quote from: "ferret"

Many poeple here only see it from one side (yep, the annoying thing the old members always say ) because they missed lots of stuff that's happened here before they joined this forum, that's just the way it is.

As Anna said. It's convenient to distort this into "newbies vs. oldbies", but if you look at who's said what over the course of the conversation(s)-- including the one that has now been removed from view-- that's not the case.

And beyond that, given that this is a forum, the old conversations which have not been censored/deleted are still here for all to read. And the fact that some of these HAVE been censored/deleted tells a valuable part of the story as well.

ferret · **Reply #160 on:** June 25, 2008, 07:06:09 PM

All I'm saying is it's easy to have an opinion if you haven't been there yourself, you can listen what other people say and you pick out the things that work best for you, you can COMPLETELY ignore other points of view. As this thread grows further and further it creates more aggression on "both sides". You don't get the answers you want and get pissed, we don't want to (or don't really know how to) answer them and we're annoyed that they get more and more when it's basically still the same.

All parties involved are humans with many many flaws and one of the worst is stubbornness and believing that it's only them who is right.

A compromise has been made (possible de-admining of PN is she continues with censoring like she did before), and many people seem to be ok with it. It's not all or nothing, compromises are being made all the time, that's how communication works.

Hollywood · **Reply #161 on:** June 25, 2008, 07:23:00 PM

Quote from: "ferret"

(possible de-admining of PN is she continues with censoring like she did before)

If all parties involved are serious about actually upholding this and following through with it if she DOES continue her previous behavior, then I'm fine with this as well. As I said to Hypno earlier on this thread:

Quote from: "Hollywood"

So, one more inappropriate edit/deletion as she's de-adminned? Sounds fair, I can live with that.

But considering that Hypno entirely neglected to reply to that part, I hope you'll understand my extreme skepticism about exactly how far PN has to go before Hypno realizes that something is wrong and actually de-admins her. So far, whenever PN breaks a rule or otherwise does abuses her powers, Hypno's strategy has been to rewrite the rules themselves around her behavior so that-- retroactively-- she was supposedly "upholding the rules" the whole time. And earlier on this thread, Hypno seemed very vague and evasive on the topic of what would happen if PN breaks rules in the future.

So, a question then, for Hypno especially (though for other admins/mods as well): how many more "second chances" does PN get? How far does she have to go next time before something will actually be done?

(And of course, PN or no PN, there is still the issue of the bizarre new rules themselves.)

ferret · **Reply #162 on:** June 25, 2008, 07:27:06 PM

Quote from: "Hollywood"

So, a question then, for Hypno especially (though for other admins/mods as well): how many more "second chances" does PN get? How far does she have to go next time before something will actually be done?

Dunno, 3 maybe? At least that's standard procedure for normal users (three warings and you're out).

Zwanster · **Reply #163 on:** June 25, 2008, 08:09:42 PM

I'm suprised PN hasn't said anything in this thread, I think It would be quite interesting to hear her views personally...

Lucs · **Reply #164 on:** June 25, 2008, 08:50:39 PM

Quote from: "Zwanster"

I'm suprised PN hasn't said anything in this thread, I think It would be quite interesting to hear her views personally...

I really don't see why she would answer. If she read this topic, she probably noticed that the "complainers" just wanna complain. They don't want to find solution. So no need to discuss anything.

Zwanster · **Reply #165 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:00:39 PM

Just an idea.

Anna · **Reply #166 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:41:15 PM

Quote

I really don't see why she would answer. If she read this topic, she probably noticed that the "complainers" just wanna complain. They don't want to find solution. So no need to discuss anything.

Do you really think it's as simple as that, Lucs? If yes, then I suppose that it's a perfect example of what ferret said about new members - only the other way around.

Hurley · **Reply #167 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:46:30 PM

Quote from: "Anna"

Quote
I really don't see why she would answer. If she read this topic, she probably noticed that the "complainers" just wanna complain. They don't want to find solution. So no need to discuss anything.

Do you really think it's as simple as that, Lucs? If yes, then I suppose that it's a perfect example of what ferret said about new members - only the other way around.

Anna is right. No one is complaining just for the fun of it. The lack of response is one of the reasons for the on-going complaining, not the other way around. Or that's how I see it.

Lucs · **Reply #168 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:51:07 PM

Quote from: "Anna"

Quote
I really don't see why she would answer. If she read this topic, she probably noticed that the "complainers" just wanna complain. They don't want to find solution. So no need to discuss anything.

Do you really think it's as simple as that, Lucs? If yes, then I suppose that it's a perfect example of what ferret said about new members - only the other way around.

Well she's probably right. You know, I really don't see the point of browsing some all threads to read hundreds of page of people "fighting" !

I don't know what happened before and I don't really want to know. Living in the past is not my thing.

But I guess you all noticed that I never tried to discuss about these pasts events as I don't know what happened.

Now I'm not saying that PN has always made the right decisions (even though since I'm registered I think she has been a good admin), but when I read some posts in this topic, I really don't see anything trying to make things go better. I just see people who "hates" PN and want her to leave.

Edit :

Quote

Anna is right. No one is complaining just for the fun of it. The lack of response is the reason for the on-going complaining, not the other way around.

So then I guess it'd be right to wait for the answers, even if it can take some times. But again, I think it'd be more easy to make a list of the un-answered questions and then maybe send them to Hypno by PM.

Anna · **Reply #169 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:55:54 PM

Quote

I just see people who "hates" PN and want her to leave.

Well, then I'm afraid I have to think that You generally see wrong - or that Your view is very very simplified.

Hollywood · **Reply #170 on:** June 25, 2008, 09:58:03 PM

Quote from: "Hurley"

Anna is right. No one is complaining just for the fun of it. The lack of response is the reason for the on-going complaining, not the other way around.

Exactly.

And like Zwanster, I too would be very interested in reading PN's views on these issues. She made one post (or was it two?) on the original topic that got moved, but has been completely mute ever since. And Hypno now seems to be adopting a very similar attitude. Problem is, it's impossible to work out a solution when one side refuses to communicate.

Quote from: "ferret"

Dunno, 3 maybe? At least that's standard procedure for normal users (three warings and you're out).

If she hadn't caused any warning-worthy trouble before, then the standard three warning system would be completely fair, I agree. But I don't like the notion of her being given a clean slate just because there are new rules now, especially since the new rules wouldn't even have been necessary if it weren't for her.

Lucs · **Reply #171 on:** June 25, 2008, 10:04:42 PM

Quote from: "Anna"

Quote
I just see people who "hates" PN and want her to leave.

Well, then I'm afraid I have to think that You generally see wrong - or that Your view is very very simplified.

Well you can think that.

I just don't understand how anyone can ask an admin to un-admin another one. It's such a lack of respect in my opinion.

Anyway I'm not gonna discuss here anymore (at least right now) as it seems that after almost 6 months here I'm still considered as a newbie or dunno what.

Hurley · **Reply #172 on:** June 25, 2008, 10:05:18 PM

Quote from: "Lucs"

So then I guess it'd be right to wait for the answers, even if it can take some times. But again, I think it'd be more easy to make a list of the un-answered questions and then maybe send them to Hypno by PM.

I understand if someone's busy and can't find the time to answer questions like that, but it seems a bit weird that he has time to post to other topics, create a new subforum and move the related topics there, but can't find the time to answer a few questions about the board. And when the answers finally come, they are short and, dunno if it's just me, but they seem to have a very annoyed and rude tone.

Nothing personal here Hypnotoad, I just think you're not really handling this situation the best possible way ;P

SarahAlex · **Reply #173 on:** June 25, 2008, 10:07:07 PM

There were always people who fought instead of PanthereNoire, so why should she do it herself? :wink:

Anna · **Reply #174 on:** June 25, 2008, 10:12:59 PM

Quote

Anyway I'm not gonna discuss here anymore (at least right now) as it seems that after almost 6 months here I'm still considered as a newbie or dunno what. Razz

I am sorry if You take it this way. I was merely pointing out to what You have said Yourself - Your lack of knowledge of the board's history. Not that I thought it overly important, but many people here were (directly or not) told that they see only one side of the story because they do not know the history.

Lucs · **Reply #175 on:** June 26, 2008, 06:31:31 AM

Quote from: "Anna"

Quote
Anyway I'm not gonna discuss here anymore (at least right now) as it seems that after almost 6 months here I'm still considered as a newbie or dunno what. Razz

I am sorry if You take it this way. I was merely pointing out to what You have said Yourself - Your lack of knowledge of the board's history. Not that I thought it overly important, but many people here were (directly or not) told that they see only one side of the story because they do not know the history.

I never said I knew everything what happened before and I don't think I judged any of you about it.

Anyway, I think I can still give my opinion and what I feel about this whole thing, and that's what I'm doing.

Anna · **Reply #176 on:** June 26, 2008, 07:06:30 AM

Well, You certainly can and are welcome to, I don't think anybody wants to deprive You of this right. :wink:

Hollywood · **Reply #177 on:** June 26, 2008, 11:37:23 PM

Quote from: "Hurley"

I understand if someone's busy and can't find the time to answer questions like that, but it seems a bit weird that he has time to post to other topics, create a new subforum and move the related topics there, but can't find the time to answer a few questions about the board. And when the answers finally come, they are short and, dunno if it's just me, but they seem to have a very annoyed and rude tone.

I didn't want to bring up the tone of his replies myself since coming from me it would sound a little "boohoo", but yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought so.

And like you said, of course it's totally understandable if someone's busy and can't answer immediately-- no problem at all. But for another example, I posted this on June 5th. The new rules were posted on June 9th. Then on June 21st and after many requests for my questions to be answered, Hypno replied with:

Quote from: "Hypno"

I believe it was edited before the new rules, which means they won't apply. The JRR thing... I dunno, I wouldn't have put that there, but... Yeah...

So, a strangely long delay on Hypno's end, followed by my question being dismissed since it's "too old" (thanks to his delay). Well, as I said in my latest (unanswered) reply to Hypno, wouldn't it be proper to deal with this under the old rules then?

And since Hypno had time to post today on the misheard lyrics thread, I guess Ass in the Dark > users' questions about the board.

ferret · **Reply #178 on:** June 27, 2008, 06:19:07 AM

Of course, because Hypno obviously owes you answers, amitire? How dare you, de-admin yourself you sloth! :x

MillieQOF · **Reply #179 on:** June 27, 2008, 10:04:54 AM

Quote from: "ferret"

Of course, because Hypno obviously owes you answers, amitire?

Actually, yes.
Not that I'm into this discussion anymore, but it's still his responsibility as an admin.