Suggestion: let people talk

[Kyubi]

Well aren't we talking about X JAPAN here?

Anyway, off-topic.

[Matthias]

I thought you were talking about bootlegs in general, my fault  :wink:

[Hurley]

hahaha Bootleg aren't illegal, hahahaha.

Sorry that's too much.

I'm sorry it's exactly the same thing if you record a movie from your tv screen and then share it on the internet, illegal, yes ladies and gentlemen, illegal.

Is it? Of course it's not allowed to go to a concert and record, forbidden either by the band or the venue, but I've never heard of someone getting sued of distributing bootlegs, or I don't even understand how a live performance goes under the copyright law. Please, if you know, explain it to me. People always show of their bootleg collections, trade them etc. so I've figured it's not illegal, a bit shady of course.

And can you leave the negative attitude? I'm not here trying to remove PN of her post, I'm not even on this because of PN, tho she might be a part of it, but I'm not blaming it on anyone. I'm just against our "official -wannabe" -situation, which IMO is ruining our board.

[Kyubi]

Let me think.... Hmm maybe because they are actually playing THEIR music?  Which is, if I remember well, under the copyright law.

[ferret]

It's omgillegalomg. Anyone who has a problem with that better not join the sharing forums.

What makes it illegal I guess is that artists often have their shows taped and it's their decision when/whether they want to release it (after all, it is more or less exclusive material, only those who were at that concert saw it until the DVD/VHS/audio release). People payed money to see that concert, why should others "experience"/see it for free (before it's out on DVD)?

[Hurley]

It's omgillegalomg. Anyone who has a problem with that better not join the sharing forums.

What makes it illegal I guess is that artists often have their shows taped and it's their decision when/whether they want to release it (after all, it is more or less exclusive material, only those who were at that concert saw it until the DVD/VHS/audio release). People payed money to see that concert, why should others "experience"/see it for free (before it's out on DVD)?

I guess that makes sense. Thanks.

[jigokugal]

And it's written on my Blue Blood CD that "Unauthorized duplication is a violation of applicable laws".  Yet there are unauthorized mp3s exchanged in the sharing forums (don't know if Blue Blood is there or not, just using an example).

You answered yourself. If you don't know about it, then don't say it. Straight from the rules of the Sharing Forum, the first two lines (at least check those rules if you post about it):

Welcome to the downloads subforum. This is a place created for all X Japan fans to share their rare X stuff. Yup, RARE. Things that are on sale in well-reachable places like amazon.com, for example the Blue Blood and Jealousy re-releases (and originals), The Last Live DVD rips and so on are not allowed here.

Now about Yoshiki Mobile, is it reachable in other place than Japan? Then how other ppl who live outside Japan would be possibly access the message if it can't be shared?
Therefore, I suggest, share it in the shared sub forum.
If no, then ... the rule isn't consistent and it's very subjective.
And, how about WOWOW broadcast torrents of X Japan Returns and Hide Memorial Summit there? aren't they copyrighted? don't they officially belong to WOWOW and considered as new released stuff?

[ferret]

And, how about WOWOW broadcast torrents of X Japan Returns and Hide Memorial Summit there? aren't they copyrighted? don't they officially belong to WOWOW and considered as new released stuff?

Welcome to the downloads subforum. This is a place created for all X Japan fans to share their rare X stuff. Yup, RARE. Things that are on sale in well-reachable places like amazon.com, for example the Blue Blood and Jealousy re-releases (and originals), The Last Live DVD rips and so on are not allowed here.

Our rules say nothing about new stuff. And hardly anyone here could see the live streamings --->=/= well-reachable.

[Lucs]

It's illegal but most of the time "tolerated".

Funnier.

Come on, if it's """""""tolerated""""""" it's just because there is no possible way to stop this. If bootleg were tolerated, why are the cameras and video cameras forbidden during lives?

I was also talking about bootlegs in general, not about X Japan only (I don't really now their position on that subject).

I know that a lot of bands tolerates bootleg, even though it's still illegal. They MUST forbid cameras and all because of legal stuffs, their management and record company don't tolerate bootlegs of course.

I know that, for exemple, Guns N'Roses tolerates bootleg. At some show the singer asked the audience who already heard a particular song, a song which hasn't been released yet that you can only hear on bootleg.

Most of the time bootlegs aren't good quality, they are for hardcore fans and all, it's why some bands don't care about bootlegs.

I hope I explained better what I was meaning by saying it's "tolerated". And yeah, I'm off topic, but well, it's an interesting topic to talk about !

[jigokugal]

And, how about WOWOW broadcast torrents of X Japan Returns and Hide Memorial Summit there? aren't they copyrighted? don't they officially belong to WOWOW and considered as new released stuff?

Welcome to the downloads subforum. This is a place created for all X Japan fans to share their rare X stuff. Yup, RARE. Things that are on sale in well-reachable places like amazon.com, for example the Blue Blood and Jealousy re-releases (and originals), The Last Live DVD rips and so on are not allowed here.

Our rules say nothing about new stuff. And hardly anyone here could see the live streamings --->=/= well-reachable.

I know that, I think i need to make my post clearer.
What I want to show is.... about Yoshiki Mobile that isn't well-reachable, yet the topics/threads are always deleted straight instead of moving it to shared subforum. *although the one PN posted apparently just deleted after stayed for quite sometime*.
And the WOWOW torrents are examples to show that actually new copyrighted materials are allowed to be shared here as long as it's not well-reachable.
Which support the questionable 'why Yoshiki Mobile isn't allowed'.
Yoshiki Mobile = new released & acts sometimes like news & unreachable.

Edited: changed the 'reachable' word to 'well-reachable'

[Ryo-Ohki]

I was waiting for someone to bring up the dolls. :lol:

Anyways..

It seems this situation gets more and more ridiculous each day. I remember there being plenty of Yoshiki Mobile updates through out the website that have gone unmoderated. Panthere just keeps adding more and more rules and moderates who ever and how ever she pleases. She is regarded as some sort of X scholar, yet she says lots of things that don't add up. And after seeing someone say something like "Panthere doesn't need proof. She lives in Japan", I imagine that's how a lot of people ignorantly think. Just because someone lives in Japan doesn't mean they have some sort of spiritual bond with X Japan. I mean, I live in America, but that doesn't mean that I go have breakfast at Denny's with Kiss every Sunday. She is always first to mention how she was somewhere "at an official capacity", I mean how pretentious can you get?

I mean, look here - http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2372

Check out the exchange between Panthere and Ryo. My understanding is that Ryo didn't take Panthere's word as some sort of word from God like some people here do. And he is told to be very careful as to what he says? Panthere, as much as she probably hates hearing this, is not an official source of anything.

I really had to laugh at what she said too.  I'm being honest when I say I don't take her word as gospile truth.  I've seen too much of what she has said.. :roll: to even consider her.. anything but... well

Oh.. and uncontrol - Ryo's a she!

[Kyubi]

F****** HELL!

I'm fed up now ok? This is not a "All Against PN" thread ok? So now, would you please stop?

[VioletCamicat]

I've seen too much of what she has said.. :roll: to even consider her.. anything but... well

Could you please stop talking only with slight hints? Either say clear what you want to say or let it be. It's just confusing to read your posts in my opinion. I think this way the post looks just pointless.

F****** HELL!

I'm fed up now ok? This is not a "All Against PN" thread ok? So now, would you please stop?

No. As visible on the subject this thread is about letting people talk. Since it's not deleted yet, I asume it is """""tolerated""""!
So I think you gotta live with that PN's actions are criticized. And I think the arguments which have been thrown in by jigokugal are quite reasonable.

Note: Again my opinion and so on.

[Lucs]

Note: Again my opinion and so on.

I think you should write that in your signature ! lol

[VioletCamicat]

Note: Again my opinion and so on.

I think you should write that in your signature ! lol

It's just because I'm also mod and I wanna avoid that someone get's the wrong idea that I'm speaking for the staff. At least while it's about a more serious topic, I want to clarify that.

[Kyubi]

Well, I can understand people wants something to be done about PN's actions but this is really going too far.

There isn't a single topic where this issue isn't mentioned, that's really boring.

[SarahAlex]

It's just because I'm also mod and I wanna avoid that someone get's the wrong idea that I'm speaking for the staff. At least while it's about a more serious topic, I want to clarify that.

I absolutely understand you, it's better to add this claim after all your posts here than be accused of speaking as an "authority" later.

[Hurley]

Well, I can understand people wants something to be done about PN's actions but this is really going too far.

There isn't a single topic where this issue isn't mentioned, that's really boring.

So people should stay quiet about problems, because it bores you? I hope that's not your statement on the issue as a mod.

[Ryo-Ohki]

Well, I can understand people wants something to be done about PN's actions but this is really going too far.

There isn't a single topic where this issue isn't mentioned, that's really boring.

So people should stay quiet about problems, because it bores you? I hope that's not your statement on the issue as a mod.

I agree with you there, Hurley.

Kyubi- it's an issue across the board.

[denx]

agree kyubi

[denx]

eh agree with you hurley, not kyubi.zzzz

[Sander]

denxdenx, I believe users can edit their posts also?


Anyway, as reading most of this gives me a headache already, I think I'm going to close this thread this evening (just saying, so some of you can have your last words or shit like that). Now, you might think that's censoring or restricting your democratic rights... But it isn't. I'm not forbidding you to talk about it. I can, and will, however, (for the time being at least) forbid it here. If anyone disagrees with it, PM me, I'll send you the account numbers where you can transfer money for the next 3 months of hosting this forum, and I'll allow you to talk about it for those three months (only you and max 3 friends who you'll select at the beginning of the 3 months). If you don't like that idea, start a diary or use different means of communication to discuss the topic at hand.


If anyone has any more problems with PN, take a vacation from here until next week or so. Why? I'll tell you why.

Until this Saturday, you can still send suggestions for the new/improved/more-awesome-than-before/clarified rules. On Sunday, if I don't have a big enough hangover, I'll compile the rules and present it to the moderators/admins for last checkup. On Monday evening, European time, the new/improved/more-awesome-than-before/clarified rules will be implemented. (PS: The new rules will only apply to posts/threads made after they become active (except for rules that we had before the new rules).) If you still have any problems then, contact me and we'll see what we can do.

[Ryo-Ohki]

denxdenx, I believe users can edit their posts also?


Anyway, as reading most of this gives me a headache already, I think I'm going to close this thread this evening (just saying, so some of you can have your last words or shit like that). Now, you might think that's censoring or restricting your democratic rights... But it isn't. I'm not forbidding you to talk about it. I can, and will, however, (for the time being at least) forbid it here. If anyone disagrees with it, PM me, I'll send you the account numbers where you can transfer money for the next 3 months of hosting this forum, and I'll allow you to talk about it for those three months (only you and max 3 friends who you'll select at the beginning of the 3 months). If you don't like that idea, start a diary or use different means of communication to discuss the topic at hand.


If anyone has any more problems with PN, take a vacation from here until next week or so. Why? I'll tell you why.

Until this Saturday, you can still send suggestions for the new/improved/more-awesome-than-before/clarified rules. On Sunday, if I don't have a big enough hangover, I'll compile the rules and present it to the moderators/admins for last checkup. On Monday evening, European time, the new/improved/more-awesome-than-before/clarified rules will be implemented. (PS: The new rules will only apply to posts/threads made after they become active (except for rules that we had before the new rules).) If you still have any problems then, contact me and we'll see what we can do.

Actually, I agree with you.  It is becoming a huge issue.  Instead of people ranting.. here... make an lj, myspace, friendster.. something.. and rant there.  I hope the new rules will be fair to all users, admin, mod, regular joe..  And I hope that unless someone posts a thread that is totally against  the rules, on ALL bases, they should recieve a warning BEFORE any post is edited.

[Belle & Sebastian]

i suggest that we have as few rules as possible, since we are all grown up and know how to behave without being directed so.

keep this forum a friendly place without rules for every little thingy.

[Ryo-Ohki]

i suggest that we have as few rules as possible, since we are all grown up and know how to behave without being directed so.

keep this forum a friendly place without rules for every little thingy.

Pilote  If there were no rules then people would post even the most absurd rumor as pure fact (not that that doesn't happen anyway)  There would be no order and people would not refrain from fighting over every little thing.

[Belle & Sebastian]

Pilote  If there were no rules then people would post even the most absurd rumor as pure fact (not that that doesn't happen anyway)  There would be no order and people would not refrain from fighting over every little thing.

i didnt say NO rules, i just said as few as possible. i dont wanna be instructed how to corectly quote an article or how to address other users or what color to use for which topic

[Ryo-Ohki]

Pilote  If there were no rules then people would post even the most absurd rumor as pure fact (not that that doesn't happen anyway)  There would be no order and people would not refrain from fighting over every little thing.

i didnt say NO rules, i just said as few as possible. i dont wanna be instructed how to corectly quote an article or how to address other users or what color to use for which topic

LOL That does make alot of sense.. LOL

It's crazy...

[Hollywood]

So you guys know, the list has now reached 30 users who find PN's administration to be at least partially inappropriate, and 10 users who feel that everything is just fine.

And it's written on my Blue Blood CD that "Unauthorized duplication is a violation of applicable laws".  Yet there are unauthorized mp3s exchanged in the sharing forums (don't know if Blue Blood is there or not, just using an example).

You answered yourself. If you don't know about it, then don't say it. Straight from the rules of the Sharing Forum, the first two lines (at least check those rules if you post about it):

Welcome to the downloads subforum. This is a place created for all X Japan fans to share their rare X stuff. Yup, RARE. Things that are on sale in well-reachable places like amazon.com, for example the Blue Blood and Jealousy re-releases (and originals), The Last Live DVD rips and so on are not allowed here.

Hypno, there's no need to be overly pedantic: as I said, I was using an example.  Every single studio track being shared in that forum, whatever they are and regardless of how "rare" they are, has been ripped from a CD with something very similar written on it.  I do not personally have any moral problem whatsoever with sharing out of print stuff, that's not my point.  My point is this: you are sharing copyrighted material.  It is, thus, an enormous double-standard for you to forbid the posting of Yoshiki Mobile messages due to copyright/non-disclosure issues while you freely encourage the sharing of copyrighted material elsewhere in the forum.

And for the third time now-- actually, the fifth or sixth time, if I remember correctly, on some of these-- I would like answers to the following questions.

- Considering that there's a forum here where you can share copyrighted music, how is posting a Yoshiki Mobile message somehow worse than that?  Copyrighted music is also "strictly for fans who pay for the service" (or the goods, in this case).
- What are "restricted sources" and where is the rule about not posting anything based on them?  Relatedly: when did this become an official forum?
- How many incidents of post editing/deletion due solely to JRR-related conflicts of interest (see my first post on page five of this thread) do there need to be before anyone notices a problem?

And some things I'd still appreciate answers to:

About whether or not photos can be posted outside the sharing subforum: whoever is or isn't deleting/moving the photos, this "rule" is clearly not being consistently enforced. There are plenty of visible threads, both old and new, with photos in them. Can I ask where the "no photos outside the sharing subforum" rule is written down, by the way? Because I can't remember seeing that... anywhere. I know there are galleries in there, but I can't find any rule that says no photos are to be posted outside of those. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Could a list be posted of the times when PN deleted, edited, or requested the edit of a post which was in violation of the publicly-posted X Freaks rules at the time she deleted the post? I'm just asking because I don't remember any of the posts she edited/deleted having been in violation of any posted (at the time) rules.

Still waiting for those "several other board members" (who weren't mentioned nor even implied in the PM that PN sent me) to step forward and tell me about how they're offended by multiorgasmic death-sex...

Any and all answers would be much appreciated, thanks.

Honestly, I'm not expecting much here, as I'm sure this thread will be closed so that questions like these, and the concerns of 29 other forum members, can continue to be comfortably silenced and pushed aside.  As I've said before, shutting people up is never a good way to solve problems.  Usually it just makes things even worse.  (And yes, "I'm closing this thread, go rant about it on myspace" absolutely does qualify as shutting people up.)

[Ryo-Ohki]

Honestly, I'm not expecting much here, as I'm sure this thread will be closed so that questions like these, and the concerns of 29 other forum members, can continue to be comfortably silenced and pushed aside.  As I've said before, shutting people up is never a good way to solve problems.  Usually it just makes things even worse.  (And yes, "I'm closing this thread, go rant about it on myspace" absolutely does qualify as shutting people up.)

To effectively shut us up would be to deal with a problem.  But how do you deal with a problem as outspoken as PN?  Myself.. I don't care what role she carries here or anywhere else for that matter.  As long as she can be fiar and objective with the duties she is given, thats fine.  When it comes to ramming her opinion down our throats like it's ABSOLUTE truth... I have issues there.  I mean it would be different if she had some truth to back up her claims of being 'in the know' with X.  (and honestly the thought of her translating the hide book is about as funny as the thought of the Pope writing a biography on Charles Manson or Marilyn Manson)

[ferret]

Honestly, I'm not expecting much here, as I'm sure this thread will be closed so that questions like these, and the concerns of 29 other forum members, can continue to be comfortably silenced and pushed aside.  As I've said before, shutting people up is never a good way to solve problems.  Usually it just makes things even worse.  (And yes, "I'm closing this thread, go rant about it on myspace" absolutely does qualify as shutting people up.)

Pushed aside? How? If we were pushing the 2 threads on this topic aside there would be no new rules, the staff wouldn't have to worry about  those enormous headaches everyone seems to be having from this flood of words and complaints. Come on, this thread has no structure, everyone's throwing in what they're thinking, off topic discussions occur, some only come to leave some edgy comment about PN. Everything has been said about 6 times right now, it's like a broken record: always play the same, always play the same, always play the same.

Some people need to know what they really want: Get rid of PN as a mod/admin or have the forum be a more peaceful place. If it's the second one, good for you, we're working on that, if it's the first, well, sucks for you, maybe you should try to get used to the second idea. Some ideas here are WAY too radical, still everyone is saying they want a real democracy. I'm sorry, but with ideas like that it wouldn't be one, far from it.