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Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #30 on: June 01, 2008, 11:01:56 AM
Yes, but that's just hearsay, really. Either way, it can very easily be misconstrued as an "order" from an admin.

It might sound petty, but it's just another drop in the bucket for Panthere.



Offline Sander

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Reply #31 on: June 01, 2008, 11:06:44 AM
Oh, and bringing up stuff from almost two years ago is really... Stupid, specially when you weren't a user here then (I don't think I have seen people who were users then speak about it, as most of them agreed with PN and did those silly death threats themself, including me).

This is my administrator color.


Offline Maya

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Reply #32 on: June 01, 2008, 11:11:18 AM
Even if she wrote it just as user to another user ... I still think such a PM is kind of impudent.
I have no right to tell anyone what he should write and what he shouldn't ... I mean, if any user wrote me a PM, asking me to change a trivial sentence of any of my posts ... I would be like "WTF, hello? This is MY post and I can write what I want there if it doesn't hurt any rules o_o".
But that might just be me XD I find this ridiculous.

But I don't want to argue about the whole topic anymore, here, since there are enough people who continue doing so and I couldn't add anything new. ^^;

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Offline matsumoto

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Reply #33 on: June 01, 2008, 12:09:07 PM
Quote from: "Uncontrol"
Do you guys really think that's what Yoshiki wants? Mindless drones for fans?


I agree with this. Promoting a positive-and-flawless-only board would be creating blind fans. And blind fanatism is something regrettable.

Let me make this very simple: if X didn't want to be exposed to criticism (positive and negative alike) they wouldn't have dared getting out of the garage. That's how life is. If you're famous, you also have to be strong enough to deal with people's opinions. And please stop making Yoshiki a nice, little and vulnerable angel and/or something superior to any other human being. He's just the same as everyone else, if he comes across this forum and finds something that he considers offensive, then that's his oppurtunity to do something about it. Just like anyone else would do, being a superstar or not.

Woah, I can haz admin colour.


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Reply #34 on: June 01, 2008, 04:57:46 PM
This is a post strictly FYI (for your information). To clarify some facts, which have been sadly ignored and state my views on this situation, as a favour to Sander/Hypno and my other friends here. I will not discuss anything I am saying with anyone who only answers for the purpose of finding fault again. I also won't answer anyone who uses prejudicial language. Furthermore, in the future, I would appreciate it if people would base their complaints - about anybody, including me - on facts, not prejudice.


Fact No 1: Since I became active again after a prolonged hiatus due to offline matters, I have edited two posts and deleted one. That makes three administrative acts altogether.

The first post I edited was to delete the quote of a PM from Yoshiki, in accordance with the rule of the board that disallows such quotes. I also stated the reason for the edit. As is is in accordance with the forum's rules. I did not and do not feel that I need to defend myself for that, as some people seem to assume I have to.

The second post I edited was one that contained a slanderous claim about JRR, that's legally actionable, which is completely different from speculating why someone might have done something. Since things like that hadn't happened here before there was no rule to cover that. However, law isn't suspended online and laws about slander and defamation are quite clear, regardless whether or not people believe that "no one cares online." Again, I stated the reason for my editing in the edited post. Again, I did not and do not feel that I need to defend myself for an action that is based on both law and common sense and was done to protect the board.

The one post I deleted was darkcat's post about the Taiwan live. I deleted that based on what turned out to be a bug in the phpbb forum software, which doesn't adjust for summertime and therefore for me (Japan doesn't change to summertime) showed the post as submitted before the news was officially released. While that isn't illegal to do, at the moment I saw that and in the situation I was in at that moment - which I won't go in now but I provide if someone would like me too, and asks in an appropriate way - it seemed the common sense thing to do. I also believe I had made a post to the moderators forum about that, but due to unfortunate circumstances at that time the post didn't make it. More unfortunate circumstances prevented me logging on here for a while, but after I did, I posted a clarification for my actions.


Fact No 2: I do not delete for personal reasons, even if I personally find something objectionable. If anyone repeats that accusation, I expect this to be backed up, as well as accusations of "trolling or abusing her moderator powers" or bullying and harassing people, not yet another repetition that I do. Also, can someone place explain to me why I, IF I edit and delete as it suits my fancy, haven't deleted uncontrol's "Panthere Noire" thread or any number of posts in this or that one?

I PMed Hollywood about his post about Yoshiki's performance after several other board members contacted me privately, through IMs, because they found the way he expressed himself offensive, but didn't want to say so publicly. My impression was that was due to fear of hostile reactions.

I approached him in a professional way and I didn't edit the post after he declined to do so. I don't consider that bullying behaviour. I believe it's my right not to engage in a public discussion on a comment that I find tasteless, in particular since I originally said I would prefer not to have it public.

I'm aware that I have said things publicly about 18 month back here that I wouldn't say in the same fashion anymore, but at that time the forum was a very small community of people who all knew each other fairly well and talked without much guarding their words. Moderation wasn't even an issue then, there were no mods.

Which brings me to both the "death threats against Masaya" and "PN HATES hide," the latter something not having been said publicly this time around - at least not spelled out like this - but brought privately to my attention as an issue several people seems to have. I guess it was mentioned by implication.

On both topics, the things that certain people now seem to find most offensive I made at a particular time, under particular circumstances, for particular reasons, and quoting those without knowing the context and background just to find a reason to complain I find ridiculous. In particular, to drag out the same comment a dozen times.

For the record, I didn't engage in "continual" - continuos? - "defamation of Masaya" nor did I make "death threats against Masaya." I used a colloquial expression to voice my feelings in a particular situation, which should be obvious from the context. Pardon me if I am not very inclined to talk to someone who twists that into "death threats." I talked about Masaya during a very brief period in 2006, for reason I won't explain again, and hardly if ever after. As for my feelings about Toshi, anyone who has read my myspace blog or JRR articles should know how I feel about him, so I would appreciate it if this nonsensical dragging up of old stuff would stop.

Again for the record, I don't hate hide either. In fact, in a conversation with Sander/Hypno recently I explained exactly how I feel about hide at this moment. It's publicly on my myspace blog, at http://blog.myspace.com/pantherenoir for anyone who wants to to read. (I'll probably add something about Toshi, and maybe Yoshiki as well, later.) Furthermore, I have clearly stated in the the "Murder, Suicide or an accident" thread that I was expressing my personal opinion and nothing but that. As I already said before, I wasn't a moderator then nor where there any moderators, but I believe that even as a moderator or administrator, I am still entitle to a personal opinion clearly expressed as that.

As for my "demeaning attitude," I would like a list of all the times I have supposedly shown that. Furthermore, I would also appreciate it if people who use inflammatory language would refrain from critizing my supposed attitude. Equally I'd appreciate it if people would stop looking at post of mine for no other reason than to search for an excuse to be offended and answer for no other purpose to try to pick an argument.

Beyond that, I am open to talking to anyone who approaches me about whatever they perceive as a problem as long as it is done in an appropriate manner, if they will PM me. (Please give me a little time to respond, sometimes I can't do so immediately.) Should anyone feel uncomfortable PMing me, PM Sander/Hypno. And that's all I have to say at the moment.



Offline SarahAlex

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Reply #35 on: June 01, 2008, 05:36:14 PM
Thank you, PanthereNoire, for explaining it from your point of view.


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PanthereNoire

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Reply #36 on: June 01, 2008, 05:43:59 PM
Quote from: "SarahAlex"
Thank you, PanthereNoire, for explaining it from your point of view.


You are welcome.



Offline xScQ

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Reply #37 on: June 01, 2008, 06:11:49 PM
My post is not going to add anything, but I want to say it anyway.. I've never been against PN like some of you are, but I do understand where this general resistance comes from. I might have explained it before.

I honestly think that interaction here, on a forum like this doesn't go well together with the (good) intentions of a person like PN. On one hand you have your fan forum where people talk about anything and everything, whether its true or not, fact or not.

On the other hand I think PN's nature wants everything to be as correct and accurate as possible, but since the fan base here and PN are seperated by a language & age barrier (professionally) I believe it to be a tough pill to swallow for some people when it comes to statements from her regarding X (Or views on various subjects mostly etiquette wise). And yes PN isn't out of line obviously, but it's various factors (of which two I pointed out) that make it seem so.

And i think it's these two things that just clash constantly like a teen rebelling against it's parents. Personally I have come to understand PN and how she works and maybe that's why I have peace with the things she does. I think in both ways I suppose, where I personally don't mind a conversation of rumour yet at the same time I like the conversations to be proper and accurate in a sense that you don't have figure out if something is true or false with every sentence that's said.

I think the rule-set for this forum need a serious cleaning up if these things want to be avoided in the future (for example: can news be posted before it's official (and what needs to be done to have it posted).. or what the views are on personal opinion. Since an opinion can quickly cross the line to become an accusation). If you vote on the rules afterwards there is no problem ahead.

If I come up with an addition to what I just said I'll post it later. I lose my mind quite easily trying to explain something that's naturally to me but not to others. Maybe now you know where the nickname inxxane comes from  :P



Offline Hurley

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Reply #38 on: June 01, 2008, 06:15:29 PM
Quote from: "Hurley"
I'm sorry, this is probably a really stupid reply and if I get  banned, well, I dont give a shit cos I'm really drunk now, but : WTF. You know, this board used to be fun. This kind of stuff is just bullshit. You know, no one cares if someone says Yoshiki does multiorgasmic-deathsex drumming. Yoshiki would've appreciated it back in the days.

But of course it's nice to see that we've been discovered and we are the new official X JAPAN board.


Ahem, I guess I should explain myself with a bit less cloudy mind :P This wasn't an attack against PN like this thread is. I'm not putting the blame on any one person. I just don't like the direction this board has taken lately. At first I just didn't really like how "official" we've become, and it includes all the censoring, strictness about rumours etc. and now they have lead to this "war" against one person and threatening people with bans, which maybe bugs me the most, because I can't remember anyone being banned ever. And threatening with banning is certainly not the right choice for a situation like this. I can't see anything good at the end of this road. We should just stop, calm down and think of a solution, dunno how possible that is anymore tho.


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #39 on: June 01, 2008, 06:47:05 PM
Thank you PN, I too appreciate reading your perspective.

I understand that, given how you apparently do not wish to discuss your statements publicly with anyone who disagrees with them, I will probably not receive an answer to the comments I'm about to make.  That's your choice, and that's fine.  But, like you, I feel the need to present some facts and clarify some situations here.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
The first post I edited was to delete the quote of a PM from Yoshiki, in accordance with the rule of the board that disallows such quotes. I also stated the reason for the edit. As is is in accordance with the forum's rules. I did not and do not feel that I need to defend myself for that, as some people seem to assume I have to.

Two things I would like to point out here:

1. You edited more than one post on the same subject, and at least one post was outright deleted.  Only one of these moderation actions came with a stated reason.

2. At the time of your edits and deletions of these posts, there was no stated rule on the forum that disallowed posting quotes from Yoshiki's PMs.  Soon after these incidents Hypno added such a rule, presumably to retroactively justify your actions.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
The second post I edited was one that contained a slanderous claim about JRR, that's legally actionable, which is completely different from speculating why someone might have done something. Since things like that hadn't happened here before there was no rule to cover that. However, law isn't suspended online and laws about slander and defamation are quite clear, regardless whether or not people believe that "no one cares online." Again, I stated the reason for my editing in the edited post. Again, I did not and do not feel that I need to defend myself for an action that is based on both law and common sense and was done to protect the board.

However, you yourself have made legally-actionable statements on this very board-- your death threat against Masaya, for example (more on this later), which you yourself know is legally actionable due to your post asking hyderix not to make similar death threats against Masaya for legal reasons-- and as many have stated, there is a hidden subforum on this board where users share copyrighted mp3s and videos.  As I am not a member of this subforum, I don't know whether or not you yourself participate in this distribution of copyrighted material-- but you are an admin, and the sharing subforum is there.

To make a long story short, your application and enforcement of the law is extremely selective, and you do not apply the law equally to all posts/all users.  Basically, one is left with the distinct impression that you apply the law only when it suits your own perspectives and opinions.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
The one post I deleted was darkcat's post about the Taiwan live. I deleted that based on what turned out to be a bug in the phpbb forum software, which doesn't adjust for summertime and therefore for me (Japan doesn't change to summertime) showed the post as submitted before the news was officially released. While that isn't illegal to do, at the moment I saw that and in the situation I was in at that moment - which I won't go in now but I provide if someone would like me too, and asks in an appropriate way - it seemed the common sense thing to do. I also believe I had made a post to the moderators forum about that, but due to unfortunate circumstances at that time the post didn't make it. More unfortunate circumstances prevented me logging on here for a while, but after I did, I posted a clarification for my actions.

Three points on this one:

1. To clarify, that was not a single post, it was an entire thread which several users had already posted on by the time you deleted it.

2. Darkcat's post included a link to an official website where the news was presented.  Even though clearly-marked rumors are allowed on this board, darkcat's post was not even a rumor post.

3. Please correct me if I'm wrong (and I mean that with all sincerity), but I assume that "the situation you were in at the moment" refers to your attending the concert in an "official capacity", as you mentioned on the thread you created in place of darkcat's.  If attending concerts in an official capacity prevents you from allowing threads which do not violate the rules of X Freaks to stand-- in other words, if you are deleting threads due solely to your official status-- then that is a massive conflict of interest which prevents you from appropriately administrating this board.  If you are concerned that properly administrating an unofficial X board could potentially cost you your job, perhaps you should reconsider whether an administration role on an unofficial board is right for you.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
Also, can someone place explain to me why I, IF I edit and delete as it suits my fancy, haven't deleted uncontrol's "Panthere Noire" thread or any number of posts in this or that one?

As I've said before, this is not about what you don't do, it's about what you do do.  Saying "but I didn't do this, it could be even worse!" does not make the actions you have taken any more justified.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
I PMed Hollywood about his post about Yoshiki's performance after several other board members contacted me privately, through IMs, because they found the way he expressed himself offensive, but didn't want to say so publicly. My impression was that was due to fear of hostile reactions.

Your PM mentioned nothing about other board members at all.  In fact, you phrased the PM as if it was your own personal request: "And there are some things I don't want him to read in public comments".
Given that we are opening things up now, I would appreciate if those "several other board members" would come forward and state their objections to the phrase "multiorgasmic death-sex".
If they do not step forward, I am highly inclined to believe that they do not actually exist, given that so far there has not been one single person posting on this thread who found the phrase "multiorgasmic death-sex" offensive or inappropriate on an X board.

If you will pardon my moment of amusement, I personally find it highly ironic that anyone who is a fan of the "Sexy Scandal X Love Violence" band who brought us Orgasm, Standing Sex, Stab Me in the Back, Sadistic Desire, "oh, what's going on? fuck the blood!", and that charming Vanishing Vision album cover could possibly be offended by "multiorgasmic death-sex".  Yoshiki himself has written similar and worse.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
I approached him in a professional way and I didn't edit the post after he declined to do so. I don't consider that bullying behaviour. I believe it's my right not to engage in a public discussion on a comment that I find tasteless, in particular since I originally said I would prefer not to have it public.

As you say yourself, you approached me in a "professional" capacity-- i.e., not as simply one user to another, as Hypno has claimed, but as a mod.

I do consider it bullying, because it was essentially a threat: "Yoshiki will read your comment and be upset".  Such a notion-- nonsensical as it is-- could be upsetting to a young, impressionable fan.  Simply because I don't fall for stuff like that and didn't respond as planned doesn't mean that the scare tactics weren't there.

Incidentally, while I'm very glad that you ultimately chose to allow the PMs to be posted, that was your own decision.  If you had preferred for them to remain private, you could have chosen for them remain so.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
On both topics, the things that certain people now seem to find most offensive I made at a particular time, under particular circumstances, for particular reasons, and quoting those without knowing the context and background just to find a reason to complain I find ridiculous. In particular, to drag out the same comment a dozen times.

This is a public forum-- not a chatroom, but a place where previous posts, even old ones, are visible for all to see.  Now, let me use the same logic about Masaya as you use about Yoshiki: if Masaya visited this board and saw death threats against him, do you think he would care how old they were or under what context they were made?

Remember, this is the internet.  I would advise you to not type things in public forums that you aren't comfortable having the public read and re-read months or even years down the road.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
For the record, I didn't engage in "continual" - continuos? - "defamation of Masaya" nor did I make "death threats against Masaya." I used a colloquial expression to voice my feelings in a particular situation, which should be obvious from the context. Pardon me if I am not very inclined to talk to someone who twists that into "death threats."

You have made numerous posts alleging Masaya to be a cult leader, to be manipulating Toshi, to be participating in illegal activities, etc. etc.  If that does not constitute "continuous defamation of Masaya", I'm not sure what does.  Whether or not you feel that you have "evidence" is immaterial.  As I said, MiscastDice felt that he had evidence of JRR's activities, so this is again a double-standard.
As for your "colloquial expression", let me remind you of this (thank you to friday for finding this one):
http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=314&highlight=kill
Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
Incidentally, hyderix, threatening to kill a person, even if you do it with a quote, is a crime. I could trace your connection and report you to your local police for that. Please mind your words from now on.

It's illegal for hyderix to say this:
Quote from: "hyderix"
You'd better listen to Xjapan song:
I'LL KILL YOU

...but not for you to say this?
Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
As Dian said before, I, too, if it were legal - or even if it were still illegal but I could get away with it without being caught - would kill masaya and his creeps if I could.

Double-standard much?  Frankly, your death threat against Masaya reads as much more serious than hyderix's death threat against you.

Quote from: "PanthereNoire"
As for my "demeaning attitude," I would like a list of all the times I have supposedly shown that.

Many, many of these episodes have already been pointed out on the other thread.  Here's the problem: when we point them out, we are ignored; when we point them out again, we are accused of repeating ourselves.  So which would you like?  Yet another repetition of your "demeaning attitude" incidents, or for us to not repeat ourselves?

Quote from: "Hurley"
I just don't like the direction this board has taken lately. At first I just didn't really like how "official" we've become, and it includes all the censoring, strictness about rumours etc. and now they have lead to this "war" against one person and threatening people with bans, which maybe bugs me the most, because I can't remember anyone being banned ever. And threatening with banning is certainly not the right choice for a situation like this.

I agree 100% with this part I quoted.  Very, VERY well said.

EDITED to correct a spelling error: "death thread" --> "death threat".

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline Matthias

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Reply #40 on: June 01, 2008, 06:48:45 PM
You don't expect anyone to read this novel-like answer do you?  :wink:



Offline Hollywood

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Reply #41 on: June 01, 2008, 06:53:06 PM
If they can read PN's novel, I'm sure they can read mine too. ;)

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline SarahAlex

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Reply #42 on: June 01, 2008, 06:57:54 PM
Oh, I just read it all through, am I weird?


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Offline Sander

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Reply #43 on: June 01, 2008, 07:31:59 PM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
2. At the time of your edits and deletions of these posts, there was no stated rule on the forum that disallowed posting quotes from Yoshiki's PMs.  Soon after these incidents Hypno added such a rule, presumably to retroactively justify your actions.
Actually, there was an incident several months before, where a user posted a PM by Yoshiki, it got removed, I checked with VUK Street Team, who asked Yoshiki, and got a confirmation that they wouldn't like those kind of PMs to be posted publicly, everyone got that and were happy. It's, again, my fault not adding it to the rules.

This is my administrator color.


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #44 on: June 01, 2008, 09:09:32 PM
Quote from: "Hypno"
Actually, there was an incident several months before, where a user posted a PM by Yoshiki, it got removed, I checked with VUK Street Team, who asked Yoshiki, and got a confirmation that they wouldn't like those kind of PMs to be posted publicly, everyone got that and were happy. It's, again, my fault not adding it to the rules.

OK, fair enough.

By the way, I notice I made one error in my previous post-- in the first part where I compared the death threats I accidentally said that PN's and hyderix's were both against Masaya.  Oops, that was wrong, I don't know why I said that-- PN's was against Masaya and hyderix's was against PN (as it says later in my post).  Sorry for the error.  In the interest of transparency I guess I won't edit it, so long as this "correction" post remains.

One thing I've been meaning to ask by the way.  PN and/or the mysterious unnamed other users who apparently found my Yoshiki comment offensive, can I just politely ask what the difference is between:

1. "get to orgasm, get to orgasm, karada tokase (just like death)"
and
2. "multiorgasmic death-sex"
?

I guess I'm just confused about how #1 is great but #2 is tasteless and offensive and I must change it because Yoshiki would be traumatized to read such a thing.  Anyone care to explain this one?

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline Madjhatter

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Reply #45 on: June 01, 2008, 09:35:37 PM
this is alot to take in after leaving for a bit..

I dont see any real difference between 1 and 2, its the same thing worded differently. whats the deal with it anyway?

~Live boldly. Take risks. Make somebody say, "what the hell was that all about?"~


Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #46 on: June 01, 2008, 11:05:30 PM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
Quote from: "Hypno"
Actually, there was an incident several months before, where a user posted a PM by Yoshiki, it got removed, I checked with VUK Street Team, who asked Yoshiki, and got a confirmation that they wouldn't like those kind of PMs to be posted publicly, everyone got that and were happy. It's, again, my fault not adding it to the rules.

OK, fair enough.

By the way, I notice I made one error in my previous post-- in the first part where I compared the death threats I accidentally said that PN's and hyderix's were both against Masaya.  Oops, that was wrong, I don't know why I said that-- PN's was against Masaya and hyderix's was against PN (as it says later in my post).  Sorry for the error.  In the interest of transparency I guess I won't edit it, so long as this "correction" post remains.

One thing I've been meaning to ask by the way.  PN and/or the mysterious unnamed other users who apparently found my Yoshiki comment offensive, can I just politely ask what the difference is between:

1. "get to orgasm, get to orgasm, karada tokase (just like death)"
and
2. "multiorgasmic death-sex"
?

I guess I'm just confused about how #1 is great but #2 is tasteless and offensive and I must change it because Yoshiki would be traumatized to read such a thing.  Anyone care to explain this one?


I've got a major case of lulz here. That Yoshiki would be OMG OFFENDED and willing to fucking sue us over your comment on his drumming is absolutely fucking absurd. You made a great point: the lyrics and art of the band make such a comment more than acceptable.

Honestly, I find it much easier to believe PanthereNoire and the other JRR staffers are on an OMG WE MUST CLEAN UP THE INTERNET crusade to make themselves look good rather than are doing ANYTHING on behalf of Yoshiki. As far as I know, Yoshiki hasn't suddenly become a prude. And I have the pics of two groupies crawling all over him and of Miyavi driving Yoshiki's car in Vegas with Yoshiki as his passenger to prove it.



Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #47 on: June 02, 2008, 01:32:29 AM
Actually I didn't want to post here, but...
Yeah not really related to the topic, but apart from this I can't recognize Yoshiki on any of those two photos. :| No clue about if it's fake or not... don't care anyway.
Another point is, that I don't really like paparazzi photos, but that's just my opinion. I'm pretty sure they won't be visible here for long though (just my guess about the admin opinions).

And damn, I really start to hate discussions about the private lives from celebs. :roll: Sure, that's the disadvantage of being popular, but I don't get how people can't stop digging in stuff which is none of their business (not adressing anyone in person - it's just my general opinion... agree or disagree, blah-blah.. :lol:).
Actually I don't care whether the members are having sex with groupies, girlfriends, each other, their own hands or goats - same goes for other private stuff. :roll:

As for the multi-orgasmic issue:
Don't see a reason for this to get edited either. And I'm still trying to guess who might have felt disturbed by this but didn't dare to tell Hollywood in person. :| Well, I'm curious if someone will dare now - but reading the original PM I gotta agree, that it didn't sound like that at all.

And I must say, that I don't like that using a messenger behaviour at all. Really, I think on a board like this no one has reasons to be THAT scared of another person when it's about criticizing actions of other users, as long as you just stay polite. If the response isn't polite it's sad, but I think it's nothing anyone should be afraid of. And of course a "no" of the other should be accepted as long as there's really no rule broken and everyone has to deal with something not so pleasing/not so fitting to the own opinion.

Beat me for that, but that's so fitting to X at all! Their history was/is a thriller - the board's history is becoming a thriller as well. Sorry, I'm not making fun of the situation... it's just gonna get as high drama as X as it seems. :P ;)

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And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
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So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse


Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #48 on: June 02, 2008, 01:46:27 AM
Quote from: "VioletCamicat"
Actually I didn't want to post here, but...
Yeah not really related to the topic, but apart from this I can't recognize Yoshiki on any of those two photos. :| No clue about if it's fake or not... don't care anyway.
Another point is, that I don't really like paparazzi photos, but that's just my opinion. I'm pretty sure they won't be visible here for long though (just my guess about the admin opinions).

And damn, I really start to hate discussions about the private lives from celebs. :roll: Sure, that's the disadvantage of being popular, but I don't get how people can't stop digging in stuff which is none of their business (not adressing anyone in person - it's just my general opinion... agree or disagree, blah-blah.. :lol:).
Actually I don't care whether the members are having sex with groupies, girlfriends, each other, their own hands or goats - same goes for other private stuff. :roll:

As for the multi-orgasmic issue:
Don't see a reason for this to get edited either. And I'm still trying to guess who might have felt disturbed by this but didn't dare to tell Hollywood in person. :| Well, I'm curious if someone will dare now - but reading the original PM I gotta agree, that it didn't sound like that at all.

And I must say, that I don't like that using a messenger behaviour at all. Really, I think on a board like this no one has reasons to be THAT scared of another person when it's about criticizing actions of other users, as long as you just stay polite. If the response isn't polite it's sad, but I think it's nothing anyone should be afraid of. And of course a "no" of the other should be accepted as long as there's really no rule broken and everyone has to deal with something not so pleasing/not so fitting to the own opinion.

Beat me for that, but that's so fitting to X at all! Their history was/is a thriller - the board's history is becoming a thriller as well. Sorry, I'm not making fun of the situation... it's just gonna get as high drama as X as it seems. :P ;)


Honestly, the presumption that Yoshiki or any other member of X has issues, but that somehow they are too OMG FRAGILE to speak for themselves, pisses me the fuck off. If Yoshiki has issues, let's hear them FROM HIM. He can speak and write in English, he maintains his own myspace, and he is an adult who does know how to use the internet. I HIGHLY doubt that he would use a proxy who regularly defames two people he loves (hide and Toshi), who makes him look like a whiny lawsuit-abusing bitch when he isn't one, and who pisses off his fans.



Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #49 on: June 02, 2008, 02:30:30 AM
I also don't really think that he needs an internet security police. Just wanted to state that I personally don't get how people can be so obsessed about the private lives of celebs in general, that's all.
Just from the point: Don't treat people like you wouldn't like to be treated by others yourself... just in general, no matter if it's about Yoshiki, your neighbour, the Dalai Lama, Michael Jackson or George W. Bush.
Obviously not everyone thinks so and sadly celebs have to deal with that shit. In case they're not able to deal with it, they might have chosen the wrong job... or they might find ways to stop that crap... what ever...

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And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
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So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #50 on: June 02, 2008, 05:16:16 AM
Quote from: "Unfinished"
Hollywood I don't think you were here at the time of hyderix so why bring it up...?

Because it's an extremely graphic illustration of the double-standard at work here.

Quote from: "VioletCamicat"
Actually I didn't want to post here, but...
Yeah not really related to the topic, but apart from this I can't recognize Yoshiki on any of those two photos. :| No clue about if it's fake or not... don't care anyway.
Another point is, that I don't really like paparazzi photos, but that's just my opinion. I'm pretty sure they won't be visible here for long though (just my guess about the admin opinions).

And damn, I really start to hate discussions about the private lives from celebs. :roll: Sure, that's the disadvantage of being popular, but I don't get how people can't stop digging in stuff which is none of their business (not adressing anyone in person - it's just my general opinion... agree or disagree, blah-blah.. :lol:).
Actually I don't care whether the members are having sex with groupies, girlfriends, each other, their own hands or goats - same goes for other private stuff. :roll:

Totally agree with all this.
And I entirely agree that Yoshiki's body of work and public persona are anything but prudish, though I really don't care what he does or doesn't do in his private life.  I don't like paparazzi photos either-- just my own personal feeling, not condemning or trying to censor anyone here-- and I think we can draw plenty of parallels between "multiorgasmic death-sex" and Yoshiki's lyrics and public persona without having to delve into his private life.  (Beyond that I really don't see Yoshiki in that second photo... sorry!)

Quote from: "VioletCamicat"
And I must say, that I don't like that using a messenger behaviour at all. Really, I think on a board like this no one has reasons to be THAT scared of another person when it's about criticizing actions of other users, as long as you just stay polite. If the response isn't polite it's sad, but I think it's nothing anyone should be afraid of.

Totally agree here, too.  I really don't like this business of people hiding behind proxies and messengers who speak for them-- it's very unfair to those who are used as messengers, for one thing.  No one should have to do that for anyone else.  This is a forum, it's about communicating with people.  Admins especially need to speak for themselves (I appreciate PN's post where she did so) and tolerate differences of opinion.

No one needs to be afraid of anyone, and no one should be encouraged to use a proxy, for that matter.  If User 1 doesn't like something User 2 said, then User 1 should tell User 2 about it themselves.

Still waiting for those "several other board members" (who weren't mentioned nor even implied in the PM that PN sent me) to step forward and tell me about how they're offended by multiorgasmic death-sex...

Quote from: "VioletCamicat"
Beat me for that, but that's so fitting to X at all! Their history was/is a thriller - the board's history is becoming a thriller as well. Sorry, I'm not making fun of the situation... it's just gonna get as high drama as X as it seems. :P ;)

Oh, indeed.  Call me superstitious, but I think ANYTHING related to X is somewhat "cursed" in that way. :P

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline Sander

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Reply #51 on: June 02, 2008, 05:49:59 AM
MiscastDice, I deleted your posts (and Hurley's, as they were just to answer you) as they were irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you want to post them somewhere, do it, but not here. This isn't the goddamn /b/.

This is my administrator color.


Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #52 on: June 02, 2008, 07:12:33 AM
Hypno, Panthere...I don't understand.

You have two topics in covering the span of 4 days with over 150 posts between the two of them. And most of those posts are saying the exact same thing. Panthere is fucking up and she should not be admin anymore.

I mean, how many times do you guys need to be told before you think "Huh. Maybe I should listen to the guys." or "Hey, maybe I am wrong"? It's not like the majority of the message board pits against a different admin/moderator each week in hopes of having them de-admin'd. And apparently, this is an ongoing problem as has been an issue before.

I guess I'm just irritated because it's very obvious what is going on here and I find it ridiculous.



Offline Hollywood

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Reply #53 on: June 02, 2008, 05:23:40 PM
Quote from: "Uncontrol"
Hypno, Panthere...I don't understand.

You have two topics in covering the span of 4 days with over 150 posts between the two of them. And most of those posts are saying the exact same thing. Panthere is fucking up and she should not be admin anymore.

I mean, how many times do you guys need to be told before you think "Huh. Maybe I should listen to the guys." or "Hey, maybe I am wrong"? It's not like the majority of the message board pits against a different admin/moderator each week in hopes of having them de-admin'd. And apparently, this is an ongoing problem as has been an issue before.

I guess I'm just irritated because it's very obvious what is going on here and I find it ridiculous.

This ^ is the best post on the entirety of the two threads.

Hypno and PN, ignoring the subject and hoping it will go away isn't going to work.  It obviously hasn't so far.  You know what happens in real life when you consistently ignore what people are saying, right?  The people who feel ignored start getting angrier, talking louder, and repeating themselves until things get even worse.  What makes anyone think that this situation would be any different?

New rules are not a solution.  No one is asking for more rules.  In fact, there are a number of posts where people voice their preference for fewer restrictions, not more.  As of my typing this, here are the numbers of views so far for the relevant threads:

New rules suggestions - 58
Suggestion: let people talk - 924
I would really like something to be done about PanthereNoire - 1505

That's 2429 views on the PN threads, and 58 on the thread about suggesting new rules.  What do you think people are more interested in and concerned about, then?  The PN situation, or new rules?

The longer this PN situation festers, the worse the resentment is going to get.  I suggest it be properly solved before the forum becomes a total loss.  And by "solved", I mean one of two things.  Either:
1. PN is made a normal user again
or
2. The vast majority of the board is permabanned, leaving only the 8 or so users who think PN is doing a great job as an admin (PN, Hypno, AsukaMiyu, and-- by generous estimate-- I'm guessing there might be 5 others).

Unfortunately, nothing else is going to be a permanent solution at this point.

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline Sander

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Reply #54 on: June 02, 2008, 05:35:59 PM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
New rules are not a solution.  No one is asking for more rules.  In fact, there are a number of posts where people voice their preference for fewer restrictions, not more.
So I won't add rules that restrict admins/mods actions and what they are allowed to do? I can live with that, if that's what you really want.

This is my administrator color.


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #55 on: June 02, 2008, 05:43:44 PM
Quote from: "Hypno"
Quote from: "Hollywood"
New rules are not a solution.  No one is asking for more rules.  In fact, there are a number of posts where people voice their preference for fewer restrictions, not more.
So I won't add rules that restrict admins/mods actions and what they are allowed to do? I can live with that, if that's what you really want.

It's a shame it's gotten to the point where, due to the behavior of one individual, we are now considering the prospect of having to dictate common-sense behavior to mods and admins.  There have been no users vs. mod/admin conflicts other than this one.

The rules were perfectly adequate up until the point where you made PN an admin.

Therefore, how are rules themselves a solution?

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline Radical Pan

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Reply #56 on: June 02, 2008, 08:26:53 PM
Now xScQ's topic with a screenshot of baby Toshi  from a YouTube video has been deleted without further notice o warnings, and it didn't break any friggin rule.

That was the link: http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2386

I just came to post this: you're a bunch of assholes, loud and clear. Enjoy banning me.
Too bad for you that other 2 users had notify me they will leave, I think that was the last drop to fill the glass of water.
Enjoy your kingdom in the internetz.


Offline Matthias

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Reply #57 on: June 02, 2008, 08:30:37 PM
What the hell are you talking about? The link works absolutely fine, so what was deleted?




Offline Matthias

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Reply #59 on: June 02, 2008, 08:35:28 PM
In the sharing/pictures subforum, where it belongs to. But of course let's first insult some people instead of thinking about where the thread may have been gone.