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People who hated the Concert

Kihl · 53243

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Offline ferret

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Reply #90 on: April 09, 2008, 08:02:22 AM
Quote from: "Uncontrol"
I mean, sure, Give Me the Pleasure and Desperate Angel are alright songs, but do they really represent X? Not really.


How do they not represent X? They are X songs, therefore they represent what the band has accomplished.

RIP


Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #91 on: April 09, 2008, 08:12:48 AM
Well, I meant represent well.

That's like saying Rocky Raccoon represents the Beatles.



Offline Kihl

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Reply #92 on: April 09, 2008, 08:46:04 AM
Quote from: "X-J"
Quote from: "nage"
Quote from: "X-J"
8)  Well, I'm 27, what about you?  :P

younger but adult.. since when does age matter? XD


Uuh...  8)  Since never. Okay, PM me and let's get down into details...  :D Oh, I just PMd you instead...  :)


Since when age matters? Well in some cases it's called statutory rape. XD

Edit: Please disregard the above statement. Procrastination in the face of mounting assignments in progress.

Love will Find a Way

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Do you Still believe that?


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #93 on: April 09, 2008, 06:57:38 PM
Quote from: "X-J"
Well, they are as far as intellectual history and culture are concerned.  :) In opposition, there's talk of Continental way of thought. These branches have been uniting more only since after the Second World War.

I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell that the totality of culture in the US is exclusively derived from the culture of England.  The US is a melting pot of immigrants (my recent ancestors included), especially in its major cultural centers like LA and NY.  If you want to talk about "Western" or "occidental" thought, that would make sense and be perfectly applicable, but saying everything here is "Anglo" is simply not a reflection of reality.

Or to put it more succinctly: if you ever come to the US and start telling people they're all "Anglo" somehow, don't expect to be overly popular among, for example, the legions of we Latin types. ;)

About Yoshiki, ferret's George Lucas comparison is exactly it.  I think a Gene Simmons comparison is very apt here too, especially given that Yoshiki is a KISS fan and surely was inspired by their marketing as well.

Now, I'm not saying that Yoshiki isn't a passionate performer or something.  He is, and that's part of why I like him so much.  I do think he is honestly willing to die onstage for his art, and I really admire that.

But I also admire him as a businessman-- and he IS a businessman.  And X Japan IS also about making money, live performances included.  Last time I checked, you have to pay to get in.

And there were souvenir stands where they sold 6,500 yen towels. :P

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline Lucs

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Reply #94 on: April 09, 2008, 07:02:46 PM
I just want to say that I don't care about the people who hated the shows !

About X Japan making money, well, of course they are ! A band couldn't exist without money... now I really don't think X Japan is a "commercial" band.

See, Metallica (which is a band I really like) IS a commercial band ! You can find any Metallica accessory that you want... I even saw toilet seats Metallica...

With X Japan, I can't find any T-Shirts (had to make my own), can't even find Vanishing Vision... seriously, if they wanted to make more money, they could without any problem.

X Japan is like Guns N'Roses on that point in my opinion. They are not TOO much commercial, just what we need so fans can be satisfied (well, if GNR would release an album it'd be cool :D lol).

Towel for 6500yen ? I think it's a correct price. Of what I saw, Japan is a bit more expensive than here. At a regular show, you'd find T-Shirt for sell at about 40$. So I guess it's the normal price.


Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #95 on: April 09, 2008, 07:17:18 PM
I KNOW this is a little bit late, but I can't believe that noone did this earlier....



Edit: Okay, so a guy pulled it in the comments on that blog, but still! A macro had to be done!



Offline Zwanster

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Reply #96 on: April 09, 2008, 08:10:13 PM
Quote from: "X-J"
Quote from: "nage"
Quote from: "X-J"
8)  Well, I'm 27, what about you?  :P

younger but adult.. since when does age matter? XD


Uuh...  8)  Since never. Okay, PM me and let's get down into details...  :D Oh, I just PMd you instead...  :)


Damn it's on like king kong  :lol:



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #97 on: April 09, 2008, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: "Lucs"
I just want to say that I don't care about the people who hated the shows !

About X Japan making money, well, of course they are ! A band couldn't exist without money... now I really don't think X Japan is a "commercial" band.

See, Metallica (which is a band I really like) IS a commercial band ! You can find any Metallica accessory that you want... I even saw toilet seats Metallica...

.



Lol,don't forget about KISS.I like them,but still.....these guys......they've even made a KISS coffin.


PARTY HARD


Offline Lucs

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Reply #98 on: April 09, 2008, 08:49:34 PM
Quote from: "Yu~Kun"
Quote from: "Lucs"
I just want to say that I don't care about the people who hated the shows !

About X Japan making money, well, of course they are ! A band couldn't exist without money... now I really don't think X Japan is a "commercial" band.

See, Metallica (which is a band I really like) IS a commercial band ! You can find any Metallica accessory that you want... I even saw toilet seats Metallica...

.



Lol,don't forget about KISS.I like them,but still.....these guys......they've even made a KISS coffin.


Well I don't really know KISS ! It's why I took the example of Metallica :D


Offline X-J

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Reply #99 on: April 10, 2008, 07:33:45 AM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell that the totality of culture in the US is exclusively derived from the culture of England.


Who said so? But take a look at history, philosophy and epistemology (for starters)... I'm talking about traditions here, "official" ones. And so is the literature on the topic. BTW: the US is today referred to more as a salad bowl than a melting pot, the melting pot theory would rather contradict your argument, wouldn't it?  :D

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #100 on: April 10, 2008, 08:04:47 AM
Quote from: "X-J"
BTW: the US is today referred to more as a salad bowl than a melting pot, the melting pot theory would rather contradict your argument, wouldn't it?  :D

But you knew precisely what I meant, didn't you?  Careful, don't get even more hung up on semantics than I am. ;)

Quote from: "Lucs"
Towel for 6500yen ? I think it's a correct price. Of what I saw, Japan is a bit more expensive than here. At a regular show, you'd find T-Shirt for sell at about 40$. So I guess it's the normal price.

OK, yeah, stuff is expensive in Japan, but... they were selling TOWELS!  That's so obscure and so let's-slap-this-logo-on-everything. :P  I also thought it was pretty amusing because it was in such (unintentionally I'm sure) poor taste.  I agree that X doesn't seem to have oversaturated their market yet, at least, but... X condoms?  Mint cases?  Yoshiki perfume and panties?
And I'm not saying "omg too commercial!", because I really don't mind it at all, I just think it's funny.  And if I had been at those concerts, I'm sure I would've been tempted to buy a set of towels for my bathroom.

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline friday

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Reply #101 on: April 10, 2008, 08:51:35 AM
Whether you have a Sadistic Desire, or are in the mood for Standing Sex...Whether it is the Weekend or time for a Celebration... The new X Japan "Give me the pleasure" Condoms are here to satisfy you and your partners every need. Guaranteed to withlast 20 minute Orgasms so you and your partner can discover the REAL Art of Life.

(Comes in two colours, Blue Blood and Kurenai)

MODERATOR'd!


Offline jigokugal

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Reply #102 on: April 10, 2008, 08:54:52 AM
Thats funny, but i don't know if i should laugh or not :S

 jigokugal


Offline ferret

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Reply #103 on: April 10, 2008, 09:02:21 AM
That is perfect!  :lol:

RIP


Offline nage

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Reply #104 on: April 10, 2008, 09:33:24 AM
Quote from: "friday"
Whether you have a Sadistic Desire, or are in the mood for Standing Sex...Whether it is the Weekend or time for a Celebration... The new X Japan "Give me the pleasure" Condoms are here to satisfy you and your partners every need. Guaranteed to withlast 20 minute Orgasms so you and your partner can discover the REAL Art of Life.

(Comes in two colours, Blue Blood and Kurenai)

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol: That's cool... XD


May X be with you!


Offline X-J

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Reply #105 on: April 10, 2008, 10:16:05 AM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
Quote from: "X-J"
BTW: the US is today referred to more as a salad bowl than a melting pot, the melting pot theory would rather contradict your argument, wouldn't it?  :D

But you knew precisely what I meant, didn't you?  Careful, don't get even more hung up on semantics than I am. ;)


The point is, from a salad bowl doesn't follow non-Anglo-Americanness in an intellectual sense...  :) If we consider the way American science and society work, rationality, empiricism, progress and consumerism are very much its cornerstones in spite of nowadays acknowledged post-colonialism. It is impervious in this sense to a critique of modernity that many Europeans have come up with and that the Japanese culture, from what I've read and seen, doesn't recognize in a similar, all-encompassing form.

Paradoxically, though (Central) Europeans are more sceptical of these four elements, their tradition still more readily recognises the subjective/aesthetic existential condition in much wider areas of life than the more bourgeois Anglo-American thought which, again paradoxically, has lost faith in "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" in spite of its stronger (Enlightenment) optimistic belief in progress and what not. This is, arguably, the result of seeing the world through the glasses of austere, "colder", mechanicist science/culture whose key beliefs are mentioned above.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Anna

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Reply #106 on: April 10, 2008, 10:54:06 AM
Quote
Paradoxically, though (Central) Europeans are more sceptical of these four elements, their tradition still more readily recognises the subjective/aesthetic existential condition in much wider areas of life than the more bourgeois Anglo-American thought which, again paradoxically, has lost faith in "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" in spite of its stronger (Enlightenment) optimistic belief in progress and what not. This is, arguably, the result of seeing the world through the glasses of austere, "colder", mechanicist science/culture whose key beliefs are mentioned above.


Being a Central European myself, I cannot say I completely agree, at least a far as  "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" are concerned.   :?

Pony rocks!


Offline X-J

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Reply #107 on: April 10, 2008, 11:45:31 AM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote
Paradoxically, though (Central) Europeans are more sceptical of these four elements, their tradition still more readily recognises the subjective/aesthetic existential condition in much wider areas of life than the more bourgeois Anglo-American thought which, again paradoxically, has lost faith in "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" in spite of its stronger (Enlightenment) optimistic belief in progress and what not. This is, arguably, the result of seeing the world through the glasses of austere, "colder", mechanicist science/culture whose key beliefs are mentioned above.


Being a Central European myself, I cannot say I completely agree, at least a far as  "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" are concerned.   :?


Then you may not have become aware of Continental Philosophy and intellectual history on which your society's based on...

It all started from Nietzsche, de Saussure, Kierkegaard and Husserl (and later Freud), tradition of Lebensphilosophie.  

To Americans, this branch of Continental Philosophy has until recently been virtually alien, because they jumped into the Darwinist bandwagon of positivist natural/social science besides their Lockean materialist conception of capitalism (where the right to hold private property was front and center) and post-Jacksonian and pragmatic "common sense philosophy". Its key manifestation was industrialism (and later, in extremis, Marxism). The second source was Britain. You can read more at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_philosophy

I quote:

From the early 20th century until the 1960s, continental philosophers were only intermittently discussed in British and American universities. Mentions of continental philosophy were usually dismissive or hostile. However, due to student demand, philosophy departments began offering courses in continental philosophy in the late 1960s and 1970s. With post-modernism in the 1970s and 1980s, analytic philosophers became more vocally opposed to the methods and conclusions of continental philosophers. Derrida, for example, was the target of polemics by John Searle and, later, assorted signatories protesting an honorary degree given to Derrida by Cambridge University.

While American and British universities continue to offer courses devoted to continental philosophy, the divide between analytic and continental philosophy is more explicit than it was prior to the 1960s. The majority of academic periodicals in philosophy today, which are analytic journals, only accept papers "written in a broadly analytic style". The differentiating terms, "continental" and "analytic", appear with increasing frequency in book titles. Meanwhile, university departments in literature, the fine arts, film, sociology, and political theory have increasingly incorporated ideas and arguments from continental philosophers into their curricula and research.


http://www.autodidactproject.org/guidlebn.html

To be sure, the Western, or, Anglo-American, post-industrialist popular culture, in highlighting popular entertainment and consumerism, which cannot be dissected from aforementioned values, has been uniting in the past century towards "the American way," much to the chagrin of many Continental thinkers.

My point all along was that criticism of this current is to be found in Continental, i.e. European thinkers, and that the Japanese do not approach the issue similarly.


A normal person from the street who hasn't read on the subject may not even realize this. Reading about these things is, however, my job  :)

  • To be exact, no-one experiences the world similarly, but nevertheless "the guidelines", or epistemes in Foucaldian terminology, can be dissected through careful studying.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #108 on: April 10, 2008, 11:56:16 AM
what the hell



Offline Anna

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Reply #109 on: April 10, 2008, 11:58:52 AM
Quote
Then you may not have become aware of Continental Philosophy and intellectual history on which your society's based on...


Quote
A normal person from the street who hasn't read on the subject may not even realize this. Reading about these things is, however, my job Smile


Right. An ignorant person from the streets goes playing with her Find Andy books. I guess I will use my academic papers as isolation during tough winter from now on.  :roll:

Pony rocks!


Offline X-J

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Reply #110 on: April 10, 2008, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Quote
Then you may not have become aware of Continental Philosophy and intellectual history on which your society's based on...


Quote
A normal person from the street who hasn't read on the subject may not even realize this. Reading about these things is, however, my job Smile


Excuse me? Aren't you being a little arrogant here?  :?
I do consider myself quite informed on the subject, being an academic myself; I was merely reffering to the real situation here here.


Well, arrogant or not (ad hominem is no argument, mind  :wink: ), the real situation is that the gulf between European and American thought has grown, with any dialogue only during the past 50 years, because European Continental thinkers are largely more hostile to values of modernity. At the same time, popular culture has been exported from America into Europe, but this does not change the fact that the thought patterns are different, especially in thinkers from Switzerland, Austria, France and Germany.

The values of modernity are prone to view everything as calculated and industrialised. It also doesn't value naivety and irrationality, and it disregards questions of existenz, in contrast to the tradition of Lebenshilosophie and its subsequent (i.e. Continental) modulations.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Anna

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Reply #111 on: April 10, 2008, 12:12:40 PM
Hey, comment on Andy, too!  :P

Pony rocks!


Offline X-J

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Reply #112 on: April 10, 2008, 12:22:48 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
Right. An ignorant person from the streets goes playing with her Find Andy books. I guess I will use my academic papers as isolation during tough winter from now on.  :roll:


Hey, I didn't mean it like that, don't take it personally on yourself.  :)

Of course you may well have better knowledge how things stand in Czech Republic today. In Finland, even though we belong to Europe, we have until very recently emulated the Anglo-American, not Continental, thought patterns. Which makes me a gypsy of sorts in own my country...  :cry:

I summarize my point by saying that I approach X from a Continental perspective (I agree with many of their observations), and this possibly explains my more aesthetico-idealist attitude to their performances. It's a question of world-view.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Matthias

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Reply #113 on: April 10, 2008, 12:29:36 PM
Quote from: "Uncontrol"
what the hell


Yeah, second that.



Offline Anna

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Reply #114 on: April 10, 2008, 12:30:10 PM
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Hey, I didn't mean it like that, don't take it personally on yourself. Smile


'S okay.  :D (Sadly, I don't even own Andy.  :P )
 
Quote
In Finland, even though we belong to Europe, we have until very recently emulated the Anglo-American, not Continental, thought patterns. Which makes me a gypsy of sorts in own my country... Crying or Very sad


I understand Your feelings, because I believe it's the same here...  :? And as a side note, teaching about Japanese culture and philosophy is one of my jobs, so I have to agree on the topic of "Japanese genuineness". But I agree with Hollywood, too, as far as X-Japan case (especially Yoshiki's approach) is concerned.

Pony rocks!


Offline nage

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Reply #115 on: April 10, 2008, 12:38:41 PM
@_@ This thread is weird...


May X be with you!


Offline X-J

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Reply #116 on: April 10, 2008, 12:47:26 PM
Quote from: "Anna"
I understand Your feelings, because I believe it's the same here...  :? And as a side note, teaching about Japanese culture and philosophy is one of my jobs, so I have to agree on the topic of "Japanese genuineness".


That's interesting, I'm writing a Ph.D. myself  :)  You proboably know more about the Japanese culture than I, mine are just observations and intrusions, observations, however, that I've done as a relative "outsider" to my surrounding thinking. My intuition was correct if you agree with me on the different values between US vs. Japan.

Quote from: "Anna"
But I agree with Hollywood, too, as far as X-Japan case (especially Yoshiki's approach) is concerned.


I agree as far as business (as an activity) is concerned, but I disagree as far as Yoshiki's existential experience is concerned (thus, I'm the more Continental observer  :) ). You just don't act crazy, engage in self-immolation and think about money and plan it all in the process. I think that's simply a contradiction in terms.

Easing the pain/difficulty (of everything), on the contrary, is what analytic thought values, but I honestly think, or experience, this leisurely approach and easiness runs counter to many things (almost everything except praxis of business etc.) Yoshiki stands for.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline X-J

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Reply #117 on: April 10, 2008, 12:50:30 PM
Quote from: "nage"
@_@ This thread is weird...


Agreed.  :D  It borders on off-topic but I'm a fan of cultural analyses, what makes Yoshiki/X tick, and how it relates to others!  :) Forgive me?  :oops:   :)

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Anna

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Reply #118 on: April 10, 2008, 12:58:04 PM
Quote
My intuition was correct if you agree with me on the different values between US vs. Japan.


I sure agree, different values and ways of thinking is something I meet every day as an interpreter (one also has to have several jobs here if he wants to devote himself to studies profesionally :D ). Sometimes it means hours of overtime work, as vanquishing cultural barriers is often much more difficult that dealing with mere language.

Pony rocks!


Offline Kihl

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Reply #119 on: April 10, 2008, 02:19:04 PM
Ow... it was just getting interesting.  :D

Love will Find a Way

This the Line you Used to Love

Do you Still believe that?