murder,suicide or an accident?

MIHO · **Reply #180 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:02:12 AM

Quote from: "leria83"

I have a question for everyone. Do you think that if X didn't split up, hide would still be here today? And no I'm not stating the break up had anything to do with his death so please don't take it that way. But obviously events do make a difference for future ones. Like a "back to the future" effect. Sorry, I have no idea how else to explain it and that movie just came to my head.

I think so, yes.

I read somewhere, that, after X's break-up, hide was drinking all the time and talking about "his mission in life being over" and such, but I don't remind where I got it from....

Matthias · **Reply #181 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:06:35 AM

How should we answer such a question? If hide would have written a letter like "I killed myself because of the X breakup", yes than I could agree that he still would be alive if they didn't split, but with what we know I can just say "No idea" *g*
The dangerous thing in speculating about such a topic is, that some people may say things like (not the exact words) "It's Toshis fault that hide's dead", and that's just gross.

SarahAlex · **Reply #182 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:11:38 AM

Of course it's not Toshi's fault, no one here says that.

Matthias · **Reply #183 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:17:04 AM

Quote from: "SarahAlex"

Of course it's not Toshi's fault, no one here says that.

Of couse no one said that, and it wasn't directed at anyone. But IF you say "The Breakup was the cause for hide's death", maybe some people could think "Hm, who's responsible in the media for the breakup" and could say such things about Toshi. As I said, that wasn't directed at anyone, it was more in general. :wink:

Anna · **Reply #184 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:19:52 AM

I've seen some Japanese fans blaming Toshi for everything, hide's death including. I'm afraid that happends if you mix immaturity and too much emotional investment into a band and its members.

Sander · **Reply #185 on:** June 10, 2008, 10:18:25 AM

If X hadn't split, hide would have died of a car accident or something on 2nd May, 2008. Can't escape the grim reaper

^
||
My opinion and for sure, not to be taken seriously.

Hollywood · **Reply #186 on:** June 10, 2008, 05:39:22 PM

Since I think it was an accident, I don't see how being in X or not would've affected it. If X were still together, he still could've had an accident.

Madjhatter · **Reply #187 on:** June 10, 2008, 05:58:44 PM

Agreed.

Guys, its best to not talk about the 'what if'. I'm pretty sure its popped up in everybody's mind about what if he didn't die, what if X didn't break up and this and that. But it's honestly a waste of time and you might go nuts because of it. Unfortunatly we haven't figured out time travel to go back and see. So whats done is done.

leria83 · **Reply #188 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:04:54 PM

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend anybody. Someone asked me that question and well I was just curious on what others thought because like most of you, I didn't know how to respond either. Again, sorry if anybody took it the wrong way or was offended.

ben · **Reply #189 on:** June 17, 2008, 02:10:18 AM

You can always think and wonder what happened and why, but unfortunately it's happened, its past, we can't change it.

For sure the breakup of X would have left a big void in his life though.

But if an alternate reality exists..

:/

PSYCHed · **Reply #190 on:** June 19, 2008, 09:02:05 PM

I just often wonder what hide would have thought about all the madness after his death - the funeral, of his name and image being used on all that merchandise (and I am a sucker for this kind of stuff as much as anyone!), memorial concerts and so much of his possessions being put into a museum. :?:

Kind of freaks you out when you think about it really, though I guess that it is the same with a lot of celebrity death - people remember the iconic figure and forget about the person underneath, though thankfully the music will always remain the main legacy of life...

ben · **Reply #191 on:** June 20, 2008, 03:43:54 AM

Quote from: "PSYCHed"

I just often wonder what hide would have thought about all the madness after his death - the funeral, of his name and image being used on all that merchandise (and I am a sucker for this kind of stuff as much as anyone!), memorial concerts and so much of his possessions being put into a museum. :?:

Kind of freaks you out when you think about it really, though I guess that it is the same with a lot of celebrity death - people remember the iconic figure and forget about the person underneath, though thankfully the music will always remain the main legacy of life...

Yeah this is true. Memorial concerts are just a nice gesture to bring everybody together much like a public wake, but aside from that, the whole iconic status, fans going crazy, exploiting his image etc is scary.

~Carmilla~ · **Reply #192 on:** August 06, 2008, 01:54:46 PM

It was an accident. He was too drunk... I believe what Taiji says. He just had this crazy idea that he wants to "stretch" his neck little bit and he passed out and... well. yeah.

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!! He was such a happy person.... He couldn't do it on purpose.... he couldn't..

visualrocker69 · **Reply #193 on:** August 06, 2008, 05:57:47 PM

*bangs head against a wall*

Ryo-Ohki · **Reply #194 on:** August 07, 2008, 02:39:34 AM

I agree with the Accident thing. I do not believe for a moment that hide would commit suicide on the eve of releasing a new single or album. Fo those who want to tote the wole suicide thing.. please.. just wake up.

visualrocker69 · **Reply #195 on:** August 07, 2008, 03:04:02 AM

^ Well I guess you have all the answers, then.

xkurokei · **Reply #196 on:** August 07, 2008, 09:05:00 AM

I agree too. He couldn't have suicide, he have so many plans for the future..
But nobody knows what actually happened that day so~ I could be wrong.

However I choose to believe that it is an accident. =)

visualrocker69 · **Reply #197 on:** August 07, 2008, 09:37:30 AM

Uhh, we're going in circles. Plenty of people with bipolar disorder have been known to kill themselves moving from depressive and manic phases, leaving unfinished plans.

Lucs · **Reply #198 on:** August 07, 2008, 09:40:07 AM

We'll just never know. That's it...

visualrocker69 · **Reply #199 on:** August 07, 2008, 09:43:48 AM

Now THAT is indisputable. There are just two choices - carefully analysing the information that we have or ignoring it just to ease the pain of dealing with what MIGHT have been the truth. Seems like most go with the latter.

Sander · **Reply #200 on:** August 07, 2008, 11:48:32 AM

Unless it was a murder, hide killed himself. Accidentally or intentionally, that can be argued about. But he's dead, burned up and scattered all over the world. And that can't be changed. HOW he died doesn't really matter, does it?

mC · **Reply #201 on:** August 07, 2008, 11:52:04 AM

Quote from: visualrocker69 on August 07, 2008, 09:43:48 AM

Now THAT is indisputable. There are just two choices - carefully analysing the information that we have or ignoring it just to ease the pain of dealing with what MIGHT have been the truth. Seems like most go with the latter.

Either that or just let it rest. I love hide and his music and to be honest, when I first found out how he died, I was curious. After reading tons of posts with people arguing about it, I really can't see the point anymore. It's happened, it can't be changed, get over it. Sadly I realize that for some it's not that easy and this thread will continue to get longer as more people contribute their ideas.

visualrocker69 · **Reply #202 on:** August 07, 2008, 05:00:09 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't see how it does NOT matter? If it were indeed intentional suicide (at least at the moment) that pretty much changes our whole perspective on how we view his life and works. Similarly, based on Percy Bysshe Shelley's suicide by drowning, the meaning of his later poems such as "Stanzas Written In Dejection Near Naples" take on a whole new meaning... particularly the section that alludes to drowning.

No, if there was something brewing in hide's mind, even in the BACK of hide's mind, it is of the utmost importance... of course, unless it isn't of the utmost importance to YOU (indefinate plural) are a listener/fan... in which case, we might establish that you as an audience have no interest in critically listening to his works. As I said, such ignorance only deprives us from a deeper sense of appreiciaton of hide's music.

I mean, while we're at it, let's just ignore the fact that Yoshiki's father committed suicide, and the sacrifices his mother made by selling the business due to her faith in Yoshiki's dreams... Well now, the whole legendary tale of X's success is starting to lose it's glamour a bit, no?

Anway, believe what you want, but I firmly stand by my philosophy that paying attention to both intrinsic and extrinsic literary analysis go hand in hand with being a true fan. Ignorance is bliss, but only very superficially.

mC · **Reply #203 on:** August 07, 2008, 09:35:19 PM

Just because I don't think that a matter like this should be discussed in the way that it is doesn't mean that people shouldn't think about it. And honestly, I would like to know how many people actually analyse his music in such a way as you mentioned. All I can see is a group of people saying he killed himself and others fighting against that saying it was an accident. Unless there is someone out there who knew hide extremely well and hide confided any sort of information to him, I don't see that there will be any end to this topic. Therefore I see this sort of thing as gossiping and, while I don't mind gossip, I think that this has really gone on to too long. Well that's just my opinion and I realize that everyone else's will be different.

visualrocker69 · **Reply #204 on:** August 07, 2008, 09:43:27 PM

Fair enough.

~Carmilla~ · **Reply #205 on:** August 09, 2008, 12:42:20 PM

Quote from: Hypno on August 07, 2008, 11:48:32 AM

Unless it was a murder, hide killed himself. Accidentally or intentionally, that can be argued about. But he's dead, burned up and scattered all over the world. And that can't be changed. HOW he died doesn't really matter, does it?

That hurt ;;________;;

In my opinion, that would be also murder.... I think. You know.. If the guy who found him, would have just let him be, he would have maybe wake up!!! he was unconscious when he was found!!! IF THEY WOULD HAVE LET HIM BE HE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE!!!! ;;__________;;

hide-samaaaaaaa~~~

Sander · **Reply #206 on:** August 09, 2008, 02:07:31 PM

He was hanging by a towel when he was found (by his girlfriend). He was only unconscious then, but if she would have let him be, he would have died a bit earlier. Or do you think that if you let someone hang long enough, he'll wake up? No. If you hang yourself (given that your neck doesn't break) you'll die. If you are taken off the hook before your brain has lost too much oxygen you might be saved. hide's brain however had been without it for too long and that caused it to stop working, which also means that he died.

Beauty/Broken · **Reply #207 on:** August 09, 2008, 02:59:58 PM

Quote from: Hypno on August 09, 2008, 02:07:31 PM

He was hanging by a towel when he was found (by his girlfriend). He was only unconscious then, but if she would have let him be, he would have died a bit earlier. Or do you think that if you let someone hang long enough, he'll wake up? No. If you hang yourself (given that your neck doesn't break) you'll die. If you are taken off the hook before your brain has lost too much oxygen you might be saved. hide's brain however had been without it for too long and that caused it to stop working, which also means that he died.

Indeed. Even if the medical staff had been able to succesfully revive hide what is certain is that the brain damage he will have suffered would seriously affect his ability to understand and interact with the world - he probably would have been what someone would call a 'vegetable'. To me, the man and the personality who was Hideto Matsumoto died long before his body did.

Sander · **Reply #208 on:** August 09, 2008, 03:55:13 PM

Yup. Unless he would have been found right after the hanging took place (like 5-10 minutes, not sure though, someone correct me if you know better), the damage to his brain would have been permanent, and the longer he would stay hanged there, the more damage he would have gotten.

Lord Arioch · **Reply #209 on:** August 09, 2008, 05:23:24 PM

I think your right 5-10 minutes of being 'choked' (i.e: unable to breathe). If the blood flow to his brain was cut off as well due to the compression on the arteries on his neck it would be even less time.

Quote from: Beauty/Broken on August 09, 2008, 02:59:58 PM

Indeed. Even if the medical staff had been able to succesfully revive hide what is certain is that the brain damage he will have suffered would seriously affect his ability to understand and interact with the world - he probably would have been what someone would call a 'vegetable'. To me, the man and the personality who was Hideto Matsumoto died long before his body did.

imo, that would have been far worse and far more tragic than his actually dying

murder,suicide or an accident?

ben

ben