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Severely Under-rated

BizKiTRoAcH · 7882

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Offline Anna

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Reply #30 on: May 18, 2007, 09:39:40 AM
I
Quote
for myself can live very well without songs which are that hateful like hide's - especcially the latest things he has written.


Hateful? Again, it is a matter of personal opinion, but I do not find them hateful, at least majority of them.

Pony rocks!


Offline Sander

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Reply #31 on: May 18, 2007, 11:00:33 AM
Quote from: "genkai69hide"
Quote from: "BizKiTRoAcH"
Dont get me wrong, I like hide.. but in my opinion, Pata's music-writing skills are superior to hide's.


NO WAY!!! hide was like the best composer ever. haha ok maybe about as good as yoshiki but better than pata.  ill admit pata is SUPER under rated, and he is a way better guitarist than hide[ at least now what with hide being dead and all and pata being virtuoso] but he doesnt have better composing skillz than hide.  Hide had mixed many things into his music.  so0o0o many different styles and he created a new sound[well kinda] anyways at the time [ when hide was ALIVE] hide was a better over musician than pata. though pata is very cool and is virtuoso now
Well Pata was better when hide was alive also :)

And it's hard to compare hide's and Pata's styles, so it REALLY is a matter of personal opinion. I like hide's songs. I like Pata's songs as well. I won't say who's better becouse they are too different for me to compare.

Btw have you even heard any of Pata's songs exept 'Pata's nap'? :P

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Offline BizKiTRoAcH

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Reply #32 on: May 18, 2007, 11:23:24 AM
Quote from: "genkai69hide"
Quote from: "BizKiTRoAcH"
Dont get me wrong, I like hide.. but in my opinion, Pata's music-writing skills are superior to hide's.


NO WAY!!! hide was like the best composer ever. haha ok maybe about as good as yoshiki but better than pata.


Wow, that is very wrong. He was good but I wouldnt even call him a great composer. I've heard most hide songs and he's above average but I wouldnt even say he was great, nevermind "the best".



Offline Hurley

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Reply #33 on: May 18, 2007, 12:47:07 PM
Sadistic Desire, Dice, Eyes Love You, Scars, Drain and Blue Sky Complex, that's where his composing skills end IMO. And they are good songs, but not masterpieces.

And neither one of them could hardly be called a virtuoso.


Offline ferret

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Reply #34 on: May 18, 2007, 01:19:41 PM
Ok, now I have one great suggestion for you hide-lovers and hide-haters (I don't really care if you hate him, I'll just call you that way) here: Stop the discussion about hide and discuss about Pata, dammit. If you wanna say how much you love hide/think he's a genius/... or what an untalented prick he was or whatever, do that in the
hide section. Thank you.

RIP


Offline genkai69hide

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Reply #35 on: May 22, 2007, 04:09:49 AM
oh ya i never said that any of hide's songs were virtuoso
 i said pata is NOW considered virtuoso. and thats cause dopeheadz didnt last much well kinda i guess but he had BUTT LOADS of time so he had practiced.  but in MY OPINION i think hide is a better composer than pata[ even though i really like pata and yes i have heard MANY songs that pata composed.  AND hide did have better musician skillz cause he wasnt as limited as pata. pata only knew like about 3 styles of music. metal, jazz, and classical. while hide knew like 128367193874256 different styles of music. AND pata only could compose guitar. while hide could compose the guitar, drums, keyboard/piano, trumpet, bass, and vocals for a song.

over all in MY OPINION[/i]
i think hide is a better composer than pata. and hide DID have ACTUAL LYRICS that meant something.  go look at translations.[/i]



Offline ferret

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Reply #36 on: May 22, 2007, 06:32:38 AM
Quote from: "genkai69hide"
while hide knew like 128367193874256 different styles of music.[/i]


First of all: Prove that. Plus, even if he knew that much (which I don't think would be possible for ANY human being), it doesn't mean he'd play them all on guitar. From all I know he liked to play metal of different kinds, hard rock, some country/American folk kind of stuff and ska.

And if you people would actually stop comparing them, you'd realize that they were both good in their own way.

RIP


Offline Maverick

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Reply #37 on: May 22, 2007, 08:30:21 AM
Quote from: "genkai69hide"
oh ya i never said that any of hide's songs were virtuoso
 i said pata is NOW considered virtuoso. and thats cause dopeheadz didnt last much well kinda i guess but he had BUTT LOADS of time so he had practiced.  but in MY OPINION i think hide is a better composer than pata[ even though i really like pata and yes i have heard MANY songs that pata composed.  AND hide did have better musician skillz cause he wasnt as limited as pata. pata only knew like about 3 styles of music. metal, jazz, and classical. while hide knew like 128367193874256 different styles of music. AND pata only could compose guitar. while hide could compose the guitar, drums, keyboard/piano, trumpet, bass, and vocals for a song.

over all in MY OPINION[/i]
i think hide is a better composer than pata. and hide DID have ACTUAL LYRICS that meant something.  go look at translations.[/i]


First of all - YES! We KNOW that you ARE a fan of hide - but NOT everyone of us is, and saying things like "hide knew like 128367193874256 different styles of music" just shows, that you don't even WANT to have an objective opinion towards this discussion - hide at least is not a god or sth like that, but just a human being, as well, so accept this and think about it!

Pata's style belongs to Pata - he found his way and stands true to it, and really, I even cannot imagine Pata making other music but he does - so WHY the hell should he change his style? That wouldn't even fit and how many styles of music one plays doesn't even express his skills - the important thing is how GOOD one plays it.

EDIT: And I KNOW hide's lyrics which actually are to me no pleasure to read them...

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline darkcat21

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Reply #38 on: May 22, 2007, 09:28:56 AM
genkai69hide is true, hide played lot of instruments in his songs, like organs and trumpets. Sources? hide official books, if you live in Japan go and buy some.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 08:19:57 PM by Maverick »

hi there


Offline BizKiTRoAcH

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Reply #39 on: May 22, 2007, 01:23:10 PM
Quote from: "genkai69hide"
oh ya i never said that any of hide's songs were virtuoso
 i said pata is NOW considered virtuoso. and thats cause dopeheadz didnt last much well kinda i guess but he had BUTT LOADS of time so he had practiced.  but in MY OPINION i think hide is a better composer than pata[ even though i really like pata and yes i have heard MANY songs that pata composed.  AND hide did have better musician skillz cause he wasnt as limited as pata. pata only knew like about 3 styles of music. metal, jazz, and classical. while hide knew like 128367193874256 different styles of music. AND pata only could compose guitar. while hide could compose the guitar, drums, keyboard/piano, trumpet, bass, and vocals for a song.

over all in MY OPINION[/i]
i think hide is a better composer than pata. and hide DID have ACTUAL LYRICS that meant something.  go look at translations.[/i]


I dont even know how to respond to this. I really dont. You are clearly too much of a fangirl/fanboy to actually have a real conversation with. Maybe instead of sitting there playing with yourself over pictures of hide, you could actually read some REAL sites and interviews about hide instead of just spurting out the first pile of crap that comes into your head.



Offline ferret

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Reply #40 on: May 22, 2007, 02:00:31 PM
Yes, stay on topic. This is the second time I'm saing it: Stop the hide talk HERE and continue with it on the hide subforum/in private (pm) if you really want to.

This was the second time I'm saying this. If you force me to say it a third time I'll just start deleting the offtopic stuff without any warning (I'd rather not see this topic closed since I guess there ARE Pata fans who wanna discuss this sopic).

RIP


Offline Keppikeksi

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Reply #41 on: May 22, 2007, 02:18:32 PM
BizKiTRoAcH: I'm speechless too. I'm a bit amused also... ^^' People have different opinions on things like who's lyrics are better and who makes better music. But we can't argue about technical facts, can we? Have you genkai69hide even watched X's live performances then? Have you noticed how many mistakes does hide make while playing? I can give you a small hint... HE MADE THEM A LOT! To tell you the truth, I have never seen Pata making mistakes but I might have just missed them though. I'm not saying hide was a lousy guitar player but he wasn't one of best either. Of cource everyone makes mistakes so hide can't be crucified for playing a solo wrong. But more important is that we can't let the halo effect get us on this one.

I'm totally speechless. I'm not really sure what to say... I really would want to hear genkai69hide proving his/her allegations true.

OFFTOPIC: There are dozens of guitarists in Japan who are more skilled technically than hide and Pata put together! Like Syu of Galneryus, (another video by him here) and Akio Shimizu of ANTHEM.

EDIT: ferret: I'm sorry. I was posting this while you posted your message... My deepest apologies...  :? There probably should be a topic about hide's guitar playing. I can make one if someone doesn't make it before me.

EDIT2: Here maybe?

'm at my wits end


Offline Hurley

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Reply #42 on: May 22, 2007, 02:50:13 PM
Now I'm REALLY offtopic but I have to ask, what's with that backing track from the first Syu video? I've seen C.V. Panther do a solo for that (here) and I think someone else too...


Offline BizKiTRoAcH

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Reply #43 on: May 22, 2007, 02:57:32 PM
I've heard that backing track a few times but I couldnt say what it was



Offline Keppikeksi

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Reply #44 on: May 22, 2007, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: "Hurley"
Now I'm REALLY offtopic but I have to ask, what's with that backing track from the first Syu video? I've seen C.V. Panther do a solo for that (here) and I think someone else too...


Isn't that video also from Young Guitar? Maybe it's made by them?

'm at my wits end


Offline Hurley

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Reply #45 on: May 22, 2007, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: "Keppikeksi"
Quote from: "Hurley"
Now I'm REALLY offtopic but I have to ask, what's with that backing track from the first Syu video? I've seen C.V. Panther do a solo for that (here) and I think someone else too...


Isn't that video also from Young Guitar? Maybe it's made by them?

Probably yes. I'm not sure if that's from Young Guitar tho.


Offline motorhead

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Reply #46 on: June 23, 2007, 09:20:43 AM
true, hide was and always will be overrated. so many fan girls claim they are a hide fan but they can't name two members of spread beaver, or know the name of his first hit single.

however, i love hide's works because i do. not because everyone else says does.

pata is a fantastic musician and brilliant song writer. he's underrated. but i'd have to say i equally feel the same way about hide's music. i like them both.

but if you feel that one is better than the other, that's cool because that's your opinion and no one should be offended because we all speak for ourselves.



Offline BizKiTRoAcH

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Reply #47 on: June 23, 2007, 09:43:16 AM
Quote from: "motorhead"

but if you feel that one is better than the other, that's cool because that's your opinion and no one should be offended because we all speak for ourselves.


Nicely said.



Offline matsumoto

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Reply #48 on: July 30, 2007, 06:33:29 PM
Still regarding the hide versus Pata subject:

Of course everyone has a different oppinion and a different taste. It is not worth arguing which of the two you prefer/think was better especially since one is dead and the other is still a 'developing' musician.

Anyway, this is what I think;

Yes, Pata is really underrated. But he does nothing to fix that, as someone said. Plus, he's a very quiet (or even shy) person, not the look-at-my-great-performance style. Also, all of his appearance is rather simple, not overdone, not eccentric, not wannabe-sexy, not properly what fan-girls search for.
And what do all guitar heroes have in common? An attractive image and personality, as well as an implosive performance.
Look at YouTube amateur guitar covers made by random teenagers, for example; some of them are great, they make me wonder if good old Jimi Hendrix wouldn't be jealous of their skils. Still, they hardly ever get known.

As for hide;

hide could play guitar. Maybe he could play guitar better than average. Maybe he was even pretty good. But what is the first thing you focus on when you look at hide? His appearence, his style, his performance. You can't deny that. hide had a pretty face and most people are aware of that. And to add to it, he had that colourful style and a nice smile. He was not as introverted as Pata and mostly acted like X JAPAN's second leader. What else does a fan want? It's 50% visual, 50% talent.
I am a big fan of hide myself. But yes, I do assume there are better guitarrists. And to be totally honest, there are musicians whose music I listen much more often than hide's.
So what makes hide so special?
I don't know. Some things just can't be explained. It's like the Father & Son thing; there are better/cleverer/stronger/nicer kids out there but yours is just special.


This is all. Anyway, I don't see the problem in comparing them, too. Or are we just afraid to assume that shy-Pata was better than explosive-hide or vice-versa? Some people are just better than others and that doesn't mean you have to change your tastes or oppinions.

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Offline BizKiTRoAcH

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Reply #49 on: July 31, 2007, 12:22:39 AM
Nicely put. Its good to see a "proper" response from a hide fan and not "OMG U SUX HIDE IS DA BEST!!!!!!!!!!!11"



Offline ferret

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Reply #50 on: July 31, 2007, 07:00:25 AM
Quote from: "matsumoto"

This is all. Anyway, I don't see the problem in comparing them, too. Or are we just afraid to assume that shy-Pata was better than explosive-hide or vice-versa? Some people are just better than others and that doesn't mean you have to change your tastes or oppinions.


Our (that is my) problem is, that people never define the word "better". What's better? More techniques? More personality? More guitar solos? More talent? Being a "better" musician or a "better" guitarist? More talent, maybe? (that's the most rediculous one, IMO) What?
Plus, like you said, it's hard to compare a dead guitarist to a living, that's what many morons do with Jimi. "XXX is sooo much better than Jimi"...apart from better, that annoys me, Jimi Hendrix died at a very young age, NOBODY knows how much he could have developed if he was still alive (and clean, that is). Same for hide. I've read so many comments in this forum, like "that song was the best hide could do", how can you know that?

Anyway, I agree that that post of yours was pretty nice. However I don't understand why, whenever there is a dicsussion about Pata, it switches from "Pata is great" to "Pata is better than hide". If you think he's great, hey, I'm totally for it, but then discuss it. To me this "better than hide" debate seems like an excuse for not finding reasons why Pata is so good at what he's doing, so it's easy to say "well, he's better than hide". So what? He's better than me, as well, that doesn't make him an extraordinary guitarist, tho, because I suck.
"being better than hide" doesn't make him a good guitarist, but his experience, his skills, the years. IMO it's his "own fault" he's underrated, since he rather likes to be in the background, and that's fine with me. And only fangirls/boys underrate him, serious guitarists and people who appreciate music, IF they heard him, they acknowledge how good he is.

RIP


Offline matsumoto

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Reply #51 on: July 31, 2007, 02:01:47 PM
Quote from: "ferret"


Our (that is my) problem is, that people never define the word "better". What's better? More techniques? More personality? More guitar solos? More talent? Being a "better" musician or a "better" guitarist? More talent, maybe?


Well, I'm not a guitar expert at all. I'm a mere listener and appreciator, just like most of us. And to be honest I never really paid big attention to Pata's solo work.
But I agree with you on the lack of definition of the word 'better'. But as we're analysing what he listen and not what we see, I'd say 'better' here stands for proper guitar skills. Attention, I'm not saying I think Pata has 'better' skills than hide had, I was just saying that maybe Pata is underrated when compared to hide's visual-ism explosion. But doesn't make him better or worse, once again. If we analyse hide's performance and personality (because, apart of ears, we also have eyes), I'd say he was 'better'. But as I said, I needed to be a real guitar expert to make a proper skills analysis.

The definition of 'better' is tricky. What surpasses what? what-we-see-and-feel or what-we-listen?


Quote
An To me this "better than hide" debate seems like an excuse for not finding reasons why Pata is so good at what he's doing, so it's easy to say "well, he's better than hide". So what? He's better than me, as well, that doesn't make him an extraordinary guitarist, tho, because I suck.
"being better than hide" doesn't make him a good guitarist, but his experience, his skills, the years.


Yes, absolutely. Maybe I (someone who has never touched a guitar) have more talent than any guy who spent half of his life learning to play this or that song. Personally I don't think Pata is an extraordinary guitarrist. But I assume he may be real good, if heard with eyes closed and by someone you really understands of guitar, as you said.[/quote]

Woah, I can haz admin colour.