X Freaks Forum
The band => The Concerts => X JAPAN ATTACKS AGAIN 2008 I.V. ~Towards Destruction~ => Topic started by: Kihl on March 31, 2008, 01:32:09 PM
-
I debated whether I should put up this topic, and I hope that it won't generate a flame war, but yeah, these t**ds are one of the ones who riled me up.
I really think that they are elitist and narrow-minded, but judge for yourself.
Note: Reading the Post and Comments may induce RAGE. :evil:
http://jrocknyc.blogspot.com/2008/03/yaxl-roshiki.html
http://jrocknyc.blogspot.com/2008/03/x-japan-live-2008-feed.html
http://jrocknyc.blogspot.com/2008/03/wes-with-x-japan-twice.html
-
YAXL-ROSHIKI, excellent :lol:
-
What the hell is with all the commentors agreeing with him/her, they should be flaming that poster.
There's always some loser on the internet being an asshole towards bands that come back, for example, the led zeppelin reunion, on a lot of the youtube videos, there's someguy who makes like, 20 page argumeants trying to wind people up by saying they're washed up has-beens, that Jimmy Page doesn't have it anymore and sounds horrible, makes jokes ect.
Infact funny enough, he took the mick out of Robert Plants vocal range compared to what he was like in the 70's, yet even though he might not be as good anymore, at the reunion he showed that even at his age he still has more range then the young singers in the crappy mainstream bands out in the UK these days.
I think luckily the amount of people on youtube saying Toshi isn't as good anymore is very small compared to the people who think he's just as good or even better.
-
I was thinking of saying something to that A*****E blogger as well actually.
He was waiting for Yoshiki to do something bad from the very first time X-Japan decided to reunite.He does nothing but insult Yoshiki whatever he does and he always finds a way to do that.
Many people were complainng about the first night(and they had the right to do it since they paid a lot of money for a 1 hour concert) but X Japan did 2 amazing shows after that and it's something nobody can lie about.What happened during the first night was not good,but it can happen(and it also happened in the past) so it's nothing anybody can't get over of (maybe except the ones who just saw the Night of Destruction concert :D ).
-
What the heck.
Seriously are they serious about saying that "I was a big fan of X"? 'Cause it doesn't sound like that at all.
And what grugde do they have with the hide hologram?!
I think it's a brilliant idea. Since that IS hide.
First they complained about the virtual hide, and then they complained about replacing him.
Wtf do they really want?!
Haters. I'm suprised that many people supported that poster.
He's getting on my nerves.
P/S: AND some of them spelt hide wrong! It's hide, not Hide! Damn it! :x
*EDIT* And I had enough on them badmouthing Yoshiki!! :evil:
-
Lol, I'm gonna get ripped apart, burnt and cloned to get killed again because I say this but...I kind of agree with that guy(?).
Not about X-Japan being too late, those concerts are huge and organization must have been a pain in the ass.
But
On the down side, still can't believe Yoshiki's doing the fake-as-hell exhaustion tumble AND destroying his drumkit. Get a new schtick, duder, that one was old and unimaginative when you did it FIFTEEN YEARS AGO.
I got no patience for rich assholes destroying perfectly good musical gear.
It's true, Yoshiki has pulled that show forever now, and it wasn't very original to begin with. I know people say it's "part of his personality" and his "way to express himself", still it doesn't make it any more exciting or new. And even though asshole is a too strong word, it has always been a pet peeve of mine when musicians destroy their instruments, I've never gotten the appeal.
In other words, fuck the current fans, he only wants NEW ones!
I agree with this to some extent. Some actions on Yoshiki's side made me think he is desperate to get into the US market and get a new audience (ehem, Saw).
I think luckily the amount of people on youtube saying Toshi isn't as good anymore is very small compared to the people who think he's just as good or even better.
Well, I'm not on youtube right now, but I don't find Toshi's voice as unique and appealing as it used to be (pre voice coach, I guess, bad voice coach, too).
Also, it's just some guy's opinion.
However "Yoshker Strudel" made me laugh, made me think of Yoshiki in Lederhosen :shock:
-
Lol! I was pissed at first but then I laughed. The whole blog is just messed and so r the ppl there.
Bout the concert being late:
For your info, the concert was late for 2 hours because of THE ELECTRICITY PROBLEM that Yoshiki had to deal with TOKYO DOME. Initially TOKYO DOME DIDN'T want to supply the electricity for Hide hologram (a contract problem) and Yoshiki himself talked to tokyo dome til at last, it was allowed. Thus made him over exhausted, no break before hand and during concert! You guys at least should pay some respect to him and X Japan.
-
I debated whether I should put up this topic, and I hope that it won't generate a flame war, but yeah, these t**ds are one of the ones who riled me up.
I really think that they are elitist and narrow-minded, but judge for yourself.
Note: Reading the Post and Comments may induce RAGE. :evil:
Dont tell me you didn't expect this ;P Humans are just humans, first they complain because X is disbanded and when they do a reunion, they do it wrong.
-
it was expected.. but that was really mean.
How they made it sound like X Japan, Yoshiki and this whole reunion thing is a joke.
-
Generally I'm not really bothered by it. It's just someone's opinion I don't agree with.
I'm irked by him calling Pata "a bad Jimmy Page impersonator, which I guess he's always sorta been..." though XD.
-
and I laugh over a guy there saying that although X asked him to play with, he would refuse.
ROFL! what a joke of the year? Who would ever think that X will ask him to jam with? Lol. I can't even be angry at this.
-
I hate all the haters >,< (XD)
That really doesn't get into my head ... I'm also kind of sorry for Wes, because all those people went so crazy when they heard about this o.O I mean "OMG, this totally ruins everything, I won't watch the concert!" ... wtf? xD Everybody complained about hide being replaced ... (and the choice of the 'new' guitarists e__e)
And then when almost every hide-part had been played by hide (incl. hologram) ... it was wrong. XD I can just laugh, don't know ...
People seem to be so narrow-minded. I'm really asking myself what X should have done so everybody would be satisfied. I guess, that's just impossible.
(And after all it's Yoshikis and Toshis project, yeah ... and Yoyo had been around long enough to decide who can be on stage with the band. e_ê imo)
And all the Yoshiki-haters get on my nerves as well xD;
"He disrespects his fans, he only does it because of money, he is so selfish, blabla".
I really doubt that Yo has any money-problems or is that greedy, he needs this reunion. <,< But yeah ... *shrugs* Surely he does it, because he feels its time for it ... and he really wants to do it. So ... what's wrong with that? I can't see anything bad about this kind of selfishness. Hasn't he a right to live his dream as anybody else in this world? And he didn't force anybody to join him ... and he didn't ruin anything with the reunion. Nobody can deny that at least the third concert was AMAZING (I didn't watch the second yet, so ... no idea bout this xD). At least I am very happy I was able to experience this.
Ok, what I can understand is that people who only attended the first concert are a bit pissed off ... XD It left me with mixed feelings too, at first.
So ... long text and I don't know what I actually wanted to say ... (in german this would have been a bit easier xD).
I don't mind Yoshiki being a drama queen (besides I still think his fading the first night was no show. <<) and destroying stuff on the stage. Well, I won't use the "it's his personality!"-argument now. ;P But it always have been part of the show, thats true. e,e And I don't know why some people complain so much ...
Oh yeah, something more comes to my mind XD;; Euh ...
It seems to me, everybody thinks like "In the good old times everything was perfect, but now there's just shit left!" ...
This is not the first X show ever who has ended because of Yoshikis physical health. And Toshi always had strong and weak moments. I'm asking myself if all those people even listened to old X live stuff. (some performances were really bad e.e)
Now I really lost the plot and end this confused post e__e;
Sorry for writing that much XD
Maya
-
and I laugh over a guy there saying that although X asked him to play with, he would refuse.
ROFL! what a joke of the year? Who would ever think that X will ask him to jam with? Lol. I can't even be angry at this.
LOL that would make the joke of the century! :lol: I couldn't help but bold it up. XD
And Maya, well said!
If Yoshiki didn't smash drums or do those dramatic things, I won't feel satisfied coz it seems like something was missing..
And I love Yoshiki for how he is!
-
Well, I'm not on youtube right now, but I don't find Toshi's voice as unique and appealing as it used to be (pre voice coach, I guess, bad voice coach, too).
I prefer his pre coach voice for songs like weekend and X as well. But the point is wether his voice has gotten worse since 1997, I don't think so imo.
-
...and they started talking about Yoshiki's personality. Ok, who gives a crap about that? people will always have their opinion, and you can't help assholes to exist, but what amuses me is that that's the opinion of an ignorant 15 y/o "rebel" that has nothing else to do, and he didn't even assisted the concerts. Man, I haven't seen a single person that actually went to the first day complaining like a granny with hemorrhoids on a department store.
So yes, his post is as smart as Bush is :roll:
-
Generally I'm not really bothered by it. It's just someone's opinion I don't agree with.
I'm irked by him calling Pata "a bad Jimmy Page impersonator, which I guess he's always sorta been..." though XD.
Exactly how I felt too, that was really the only part of the whole thing that bugged me.
JrockNYC annoys me in general, because that guy tries so hard to be "cool" and "edgy" and shit like that that it's usually quite painful to read. These particular posts don't especially bother me though. In fact I thought that Yaxl-Roshiki photo was pretty hilarious. :twisted:
And I agree with the person who posted this comment on his blog:
Man, X is my favorite band - very dear to me, etc. And I don't give a fuck about this new thing. Whatever it is, it's not X. I think Yoshiki needs Taiji and hide constantly smacking sense into him for him to be able to run a proper rock band.
...with the exception that I do personally find myself caring about-- and even enjoying-- this new thing more than I expected to. It's not X, but I'm having fun with it anyway (perhaps in part because of my low expectations and ability to separate the two?).
-
The problem imho is, that after the first night, the night was still awesome, X was back and you had a great night (even when it was cut short because of Yoshiki), but when the second and especially the third night came and you saw what they played there I can understand if people who went only to the first show are a little bit disapointed/jealous/whatever, cause compared to the other nights I would consider the first one the weakest (but still pretty cool).
Does that make any sense what I wrote? :lol:
-
the only thing i agree with those comments..
is the fact that Yoshiki ask Wes Borland to play guitar with X.
like someone said in the comments,
it was just like a punch to the gut, to me.
Wes Borland should not be playing with X
and in all the other things, im fucking happy.
-
at first i thought wes borland would have runied it too. they way he annouced it, it seemed he didn't get the importance of it. but after reading his recent blog post, i feel much better about the decision. plus i kinda feel bad for him, imagine haveing to deal with the fact that no one will ever take you seriously because you were in limp bizket. its really tainted his career. all that cosidered, i think he did pretty well
-
...(even when it was cut short because of Yoshiki)...
I want to clear it up, that there were technical problems (that Yoshiki actually had to deal with himself) which caused the concert to be late.
-
I wasn't reffering on the being late, more on his breakdown during Art of Life. But for the audience both things (technical problems and Yoshiki down) wasn't that great I suppose.
-
@Babak, I haven't read that thread on JRR yet but I agree, I don't see why anyone should be flamed simply for disliking something or being disappointed. Everyone should be free to like or dislike whatever they want-- ESPECIALLY if they went through a lot of trouble and expense to see it. A lot of fans (and I mean in general, I'm not referring to anyone in particular here/there/anywhere) just take stuff too personally. People have different tastes. Not liking the same concert/song/band whatever doesn't mean someone is eeeeeeevil and out to get you.
And it's funny but I was actually more excited after the first night than I was about the second or third nights, but I dunno, I might just be weird. ;) And I wasn't there of course, I mean just following the three nights with you guys and etc. (which was a hell of a lot of fun!).
About Wes, I like what he wrote in his blog but I don't think he should feel the need to apologize. I still don't think he fits with X, but that's not his own fault. Wes is just being Wes, as he should be. The source of the "problem" (for those who consider it a problem) isn't him, but the guy who invited him. To me it's just another weird decision by Yoshiki. (And no, I don't hate Yoshiki, at all, and it's Yoshiki's band and he can do what he wants with it. But the guy makes some damn weird decisions sometimes.)
-
But the guy makes some damn weird decisions sometimes.)
Come on ... say it, we all know what comes next. :wink:
-
Come on ... say it, we all know what comes next. :wink:
Alright, alright, I'll say it...
His lipstick in "Nude" was totally the wrong shade.
;)
-
Wes did great I think, as for all the people flaming him before he even played thats just stupid, give the guy a chance.
I think people moaning about the first night is kind of fair enough though to be fair, Toshi's voice was a bit shaky, Yoshiki missed a few smacks on the drums, and then theres the whole "falling unconcious" thing which ended the show early, to be fair If I'd flown over to Japan for that one night, I'd probably be pissed off (I enjoyed watching it the day after extremely though, but I hadn't paid lots of dough for it). But the 2nd and 3rd nights so made up for it, Toshi's voice improved a hell of a lot, and the set list of the 3rd night was just plain awesome (I watched it steaming :D ) especially the bit at the end with the hide doll and Pata crying, seriously that dude never cries.
P.S. Hows it going... I'm new
-
Go to say I was really lucky to get us tickets for the 3rd Night as well - as we were originally supposed to watch only the Night of Destruction, I would have been rather disappointed. Not because of overall performance, which was great, but because the concert ended so abruptly and we were worried about Yoshiki.
Also, Toshi's voice at the first concert was actually great - sure, he had a bit of trouble, but mostly due to tiredness and also because he was greatly moved. Wouldn't blame him for that.
Yoshiki was indeed pretty tired, too, so I really won't complain. And the atmosphere was fantastic, people were cheering so much, especially for Toshi and hide. I know several people voiced their discontent over hide's image being shown so much, but it was acutally wonderful! Absolutely appreciated by the wast majority of people, you could tell from all that cheering around whenever hide appeared. It was really moving. :)
-
Ok well he very rarely cries then :lol:
-
Maybe he cries once every 16 years.
-
Every full moon probably, does have the hair of a werewolf.
-
ok...now here goes my opinion.
At first I'd like to say that usually I hate all those hating stuff (sorry, but iti's simply like that).
If somebody only watched Nights of Destruction he/she would be really disappointed. I mean, I was...
The ending came really as a suprise. The first couple of mins afterwards I was thinking this was it...this was really it...wouldn't it have been better if X hadn't reunited??!
Afterwards worrying about Yoshiki's health and the next two live came on my mind.
I was soo happy to see X Japan and especially Yoshiki doing fine on those next two lives and to even finishing AoL on Night of Creation.
I think the concerts need to be looked at as something that belongs together. At least two nights, destrution and creation belong together and need to be regarded as one show.
Hopefully Yoshiki will bring us a box with all three lives. Somehow I'm pretty sure we'll get that.
But to get back to the actual topic. The problem is that if one only looks at the first night, he/she will be pretty disappointed and hence the "hate".
Maybe I should add that I didn't read those hater-opinions. Being a Gackt fan too, I'm used to hater communities, but this really sux. I like artists that I like and I really don't care about ppl who don't like them.
X Japan's lives were great (at least what I've seen so far). I was really afraid that they might have turned out crappy (concerning the hide thing and guest guitarists) but X prooved me wrong. They really kicked ass again.
Well, enough said. I'm a bit drunk right now, but I guess I made my point clear.
Sorry for the text flood. ^_^ <3<3
-
well, lets get one thing clear: it's not X, they are X JAPAN, X died when Taiji got kicked out, so I really think people need to stop saying "its not X" because it hasnt been X since 1993.
So, knowing that, I must agree with the comment about Wes, because I thought his first announcement about him playing with X Japan was kinda... how do I say this... kinda like he didnt realised it was a huge honor to play with X Japan.
But, after Ive seen him play, I must admit I was wrong, I did like his performance and in his recent blog post, he says it was a big honor (kinda) so, my apologies for that.
And about being late and the abrupt ending: seriously I would have payed double to see at least the half of the first night if it wasnt for my mother going into surgery. and I still think its KICK FUCKING ASS to have theband back and acctually see them live playing some of their AMAZING songs. This band has, and will continue to change my life!
and about Toshi's voice: I loved it, it feels like he puts in more emotion in the songs, though I do miss his old voice in songs like X and Week End.
by the way, don't get me wrong, I miss hide VERY much, but, for an X Japan without hide, they did fucking great!
sorry for the long post guys, I hope you get my point. :)
-
I think Radicalblues commented that he is 15.....probably.
That was me actually, although Blues is my bf, lol.
And yes, I do agree with what you say about people never being pleased, because that's actually human nature, we always want MORE.
-
...If he did a whole concert of breaking drums for 2 hours I would laugh because I know that would annoy the haters...
Well in this case I would be pretty pissed, too :lol:
-
well i was at the first night's concert and my initial feeling was nothing short of shock and disappointment since i had to rush there directly from airport and didnt sleep nearly 2 days because of work...so i couldnt help but fell asleep while waiting inside and look like a fool carrying my luggage with me, albeit a small one, but still...the problem on the first night apart from Toshi's voice was hide's hologram and that cost us the encore IMO. I mean I wouldnt mind anything else I just wanted a wonderful concert, hoping I could jump and yell WE ARE X and sang Tears and so on...yes I was pleasantly surprised to hear Say Anything (which I loved on unplugged), Silent Jealousy (that they havent sang since On the Verge of Destruction and of course Art of Life) but to end that way because of they are being warned by Tokyo Dome that they wanted to pull the plug at 1100pm was not acceptable for me at that moment. I was there, feeling numb and shocked at the same time asking myself what the f***?
Now looking back, I think Yoshiki must not be happy in every sense about the first night. Nothing was on that night except the fans were awesome. I have never sang so loud for so long in my whole life. I literally shed tears when Toshi started singing The Last Song. It was like a dream, but a dream too real, I slightly slapped myself to make sure it was real and it surely was real . I think if there wasnt any technical problems to the hologram in the first place, the songs on the first night would have been perfect as they are all my personal favorite songs.
I cant stop watching the clips of that night still, it still brings so much wonderful memories for being to make such impossible dream came true. Now I'm looking forward to their other asian shows - I cant wait already. :P
-
and of course Art of Life) but to end that way because of they are being warned by Tokyo Dome that they wanted to pull the plug at 1100pm was not acceptable for me at that moment. I was there, feeling numb and shocked at the same time asking myself what the f***?
I thought this was only a rumour. How do you know that it's the actual reason?
-
And about being late and the abrupt ending: seriously I would have payed double to see at least the half of the first night
I think you forget that there was flight ticket and hotel costs involved, more than 10 times the price of the actual concert, not to mention all the time spent for travelling. I would be extremely disappointed if I only saw the first one, though still, I hold the first concert most dear because it was a very special moment. The third one was obviously the best one though.
I literally shed tears when Toshi started singing The Last Song. It was like a dream, but a dream too real, I slightly slapped myself to make sure it was real and it surely was real.
Haha, it was a very surrealistic moment indeed. I felt like exploding. For me it was like I realized that Toshi (and X Japan) actually existed in reality. Very overwhelming feeling, like being in a dream :)
I thought this was only a rumour. How do you know that it's the actual reason?
It does make a lot of sense though, if people don't get on the last subway trains, there'll be chaos. Imagine 60k people searching for taxi, and also how many who live too far away to afford it. It'll be totally crazy.
-
It does make a lot of sense though, if people don't get on the last subway trains, there'll be chaos. Imagine 60k people searching for taxi, and also how many who live too far away to afford it. It'll be totally crazy.
Alex... this brings back memories... :P
-
Hahahah, it sure does. There was complete chaos.
-
Like hell. I swear one guy seriously bruised my livers.
But you made it fine in the end, right? It is a bit sad to think that we parted that night never to meet again due to that stupid accident on Sunday. Ah well, see you in Paris or something. :D
(The mere thought that Dana and I might have not made it in time makes me shudder even now. ) :shock:
-
What a bastard.
Yeah I made it fine. I took the subway to the dome on my own the other two nights! Quite impressive, if I might say so myself. The subway system in Tokyo is kinda chaotic even without all those people. But yeah, see you in Paris! Heheh, if you missed that show you would be experiencing some of the most bitter days of your life right now.
And now I just finished downloading the first concert!
-
Heheh, if you missed that show you would be experiencing some of the most bitter days of your life right now.
You're kidding, right? Had we really missed the shows, Dana and I would have commited a ritual double suicide in front of the Dome.
-
It does make a lot of sense though, if people don't get on the last subway trains, there'll be chaos. Imagine 60k people searching for taxi, and also how many who live too far away to afford it. It'll be totally crazy.
I'm very curious about this issue. I wasn't there on the night, and I'm not from Japan either. When's the last train/ subway there? Considering it's tokyo, and it's weekend.... should be after midnite.
I asked my Jap friend & he said last one is around 1am.
ok, wht i mean is.. let's say last one is 1am, and allow 1 hour for ppl to get the transportation from the dome. so.. it's 12 am the latest the concert should end. And to be safer, make it 11.45pm.
Reality, it ended around 10.55pm if i'm not mistaken.. which means, they actually still have 50mins to continue the concert that might fill 3-4 more songs (well by finishing AoL, perhaps 2-3 more songs could be added to the show) that would make 14 songs for the night... and 14 doesn't sound bad.
Well, this considerations is apart from other reality check such as tokyo dome policy, different train schedule and others.
Now i feel like checking the train schedule :twisted: :twisted:
And.. another opinion..
News I know, reason of being late was.. electricity problem for hide hologram.
And if this transportation issue is real, X Japan should have known and taken this into consideration that may bring them not to play hide hologram instead.
You know.. it's Yoshiki, it's X Japan.. who would do ALMOST ANYTHING for the fans.
I don't actually think he would put hide hologram on top of their fans. hide hologram is awesome and important in some way, but for his fans, he would skip it at first night & do full concert instead, and show the hologram on the 2nd nite.
Just my thoughts..
-
Here's a post by JRR's Admin, Kuri, about the events surrounding Yoshiki's collapse:
http://www.twilighthush.com/?p=12
-
Thanks Kihl.
That obviously clear things up. I'm glad at last there's some truth came out from the person who was actually there.
I have the belief since before that IT'S NOT FUCKING FAKE.
About the “Why the cameras were exactly on Yoshiki when he fainted? as if it’s predicted or planned already?” –> whoever asked this question, is stupid. I’ve seen the show from WOWOW broadcast, the camera DIDN’T shoot at Yoshiki when he started to stand up. It SHOT Toshi, and I saw the background, some of Yoshiki’s drums got pushed away, and THEN the camera switched to Yoshiki. Plus considering how good the technology in shooting now, of course they managed to switch view very quickly.
I know haters always exist, however that fuking blog got my nerves at some point, and especially tonite, i'm so pissed. All the bullshit they posted are very truly the worst BS ever!
-
Kuri's post is really great. :3
-
I don't mind people not liking the concerts, but there are ways to say it, like "I didn't like this and this..."
Grabbing a band art from 1994 and photoshoping Wes Borland in is pretty damned immature. Crying about bawww hide's getting a replace is pretty damn stupid. Insulting Wes Borland or anyone for accepting A REQUEST MADE BY X JAPAN is really fucking idiotic.
What I'll agree on to a certain extent was the 2 hours that people waited, which never got a real answer AFAIK, only all sorts of rumors for explaining it, like Yoshiki being late, technical problems, legal babble, etc. At least the show was worth it.
-
It's an informative post but it's not very fair to people who had doubts in terms of manner.
I was pretty sure that Yoshiki was playing drama on us when it actually happened, but after the second concert was about two hours longer, I started wondering, and after the last concert which was even longer than the second one, I didn't think so anymore.
Either way, I just feel sorry for the people who travelled to Japan and only had tickets to the first concert. They were robbed.
-
well i was at the first night's concert and my initial feeling was nothing short of shock and disappointment since i had to rush there directly from airport and didnt sleep nearly 2 days because of work...so i couldnt help but fell asleep while waiting inside and look like a fool carrying my luggage with me, albeit a small one, but still...the problem on the first night apart from Toshi's voice was hide's hologram and that cost us the encore IMO. I mean I wouldnt mind anything else I just wanted a wonderful concert, hoping I could jump and yell WE ARE X and sang Tears and so on...yes I was pleasantly surprised to hear Say Anything (which I loved on unplugged), Silent Jealousy (that they havent sang since On the Verge of Destruction and of course Art of Life) but to end that way because of they are being warned by Tokyo Dome that they wanted to pull the plug at 1100pm was not acceptable for me at that moment. I was there, feeling numb and shocked at the same time asking myself what the f***?
Now looking back, I think Yoshiki must not be happy in every sense about the first night. Nothing was on that night except the fans were awesome. I have never sang so loud for so long in my whole life. I literally shed tears when Toshi started singing The Last Song. It was like a dream, but a dream too real, I slightly slapped myself to make sure it was real and it surely was real . I think if there wasnt any technical problems to the hologram in the first place, the songs on the first night would have been perfect as they are all my personal favorite songs.
I cant stop watching the clips of that night still, it still brings so much wonderful memories for being to make such impossible dream came true. Now I'm looking forward to their other asian shows - I cant wait already. :P
OMGosh! You're lucky you were there :). I had to settle for watching it on YouTube like most of us. Seemed damn awesome though =D
-
I don't mind people not liking the concerts, but there are ways to say it, like "I didn't like this and this..."
Grabbing a band art from 1994 and photoshoping Wes Borland in is pretty damned immature. Crying about bawww hide's getting a replace is pretty damn stupid. Insulting Wes Borland or anyone for accepting A REQUEST MADE BY X JAPAN is really fucking idiotic.
What I'll agree on to a certain extent was the 2 hours that people waited, which never got a real answer AFAIK, only all sorts of rumors for explaining it, like Yoshiki being late, technical problems, legal babble, etc. At least the show was worth it.
You have managed to put across the way I feel in this matter in a manner far more eloquent than I will be able to.
True, the lack of explanations and abrupt end of the concert on 28/03 certainly left a lot of people dissatisfied and disappointed, especially after the 2-hour delay. But it is just sad that people tend to forget that X Japan are still human, they have their limits and flaws.
Even worse, I thought, was Wes Borland's treatment, with certain 'fans' dismissing him outright just because he used to play for Limp Bizkit.
Isn't this the same kind of attitude that no doubt plagued X from being produced by mainstream record companies in their early career? Isn't this the same attitutde that, no doubt, partially caused X Japan's failure to break into the US music industry in 1993/1994?
I am in no way a fan of Limp Bizkit or Wes Borland, but I can appreciate a person's efforts.
-
Yeah, I understand the feelings of people who just went for the first night, especially the international fans.
Waiting in the rains for hours without clear information or apology from the dome, it's rather impolite & dissappointing. That a fact that can't be denied.
However, taking this reason and develop it into absurds bullshit towards the whole concerts (and bringing up the collapse, connecting it into a big story) is unacceptable.
The guy tried so hard for the fans. He worked fucking upside down that I’m sure none of the haters can compete that, YET no respect is paid to him. That’s utterly insane.
-
well i was at the first night's concert and my initial feeling was nothing short of shock and disappointment since i had to rush there directly from airport and didnt sleep nearly 2 days because of work...so i couldnt help but fell asleep while waiting inside and look like a fool carrying my luggage with me, albeit a small one, but still...the problem on the first night apart from Toshi's voice was hide's hologram and that cost us the encore IMO. I mean I wouldnt mind anything else I just wanted a wonderful concert, hoping I could jump and yell WE ARE X and sang Tears and so on...yes I was pleasantly surprised to hear Say Anything (which I loved on unplugged), Silent Jealousy (that they havent sang since On the Verge of Destruction and of course Art of Life) but to end that way because of they are being warned by Tokyo Dome that they wanted to pull the plug at 1100pm was not acceptable for me at that moment. I was there, feeling numb and shocked at the same time asking myself what the f***?
Now looking back, I think Yoshiki must not be happy in every sense about the first night. Nothing was on that night except the fans were awesome. I have never sang so loud for so long in my whole life. I literally shed tears when Toshi started singing The Last Song. It was like a dream, but a dream too real, I slightly slapped myself to make sure it was real and it surely was real . I think if there wasnt any technical problems to the hologram in the first place, the songs on the first night would have been perfect as they are all my personal favorite songs.
I cant stop watching the clips of that night still, it still brings so much wonderful memories for being to make such impossible dream came true. Now I'm looking forward to their other asian shows - I cant wait already. :P
OMGosh! You're lucky you were there :). I had to settle for watching it on YouTube like most of us. Seemed damn awesome though =D
yeh I know I sounded like a whinger but people have gotta understand fans esp who travelled so far just to make the concert and some of them are not especially rich. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have forego some of my shopping time to get myself a tout ticket at ANY cost...due to the fact the first concert was not properly end and that still leaves a very weird feeling :?
I wouldnt blame Toshi nor Pata for being below par that night. At least Yoshiki had confirmed that in addition to the US and Paris show, they are also going to Shanghai, Taiper and my home, HK in August, now I'm happier knowing I am not gonna miss a single show this time around :P
-
Yoshiki's fainting seemed pretty staged to me, unfortunately.
I mean, he collapsed in cue to the music. Come on.
-
Yoshiki's fainting seemed pretty staged to me, unfortunately.
I mean, he collapsed in cue to the music. Come on.
I truly hope you are KIDDING now.
-
Yoshiki's fainting seemed pretty staged to me, unfortunately.
I mean, he collapsed in cue to the music. Come on.
I gotta say, he did collapse at the perfect time musically... :P
Though I personally think it was real, because:
- When he fakes a collapse for drama purposes, he always writhes around dramatically on the floor, etc. No writhing that time.
- The set lists for the second two nights were easier drum-wise and had a lot more drum-free rest periods for Yoshiki. The second night setlist in particular was more like "sensible night" than "madness night". It strikes me that they may have modified some set lists after what happened the first night.
And as for the perfect timing-- have you ever seen a marathon runner collapse the moment they cross the finish line? It's very possible to drive your body so hard that the moment you stop exerting yourself-- and Yoshiki of course would have anticipated the upcoming stopping point in the song-- your body takes the opportunity to say "OK, done now" in rather abrupt fashion.
Just my take on things, but it doesn't bother me if people disagree. Yoshiki's the only one who really knows for sure, after all.
-
Well, it's not even that he fainted (assuming that was the official reason) It's was more of a collapse than anything. I mean, you could see his eyes open and what not.
I mean, Yoshiki falls like 80 times during the drum breaks and gets back up, I'm not sure why 3.28 was so different. <_<
-
Well during his previous 'faints', who many times has he been carried off by the Crew? And how many times he has 'fainted' later, after the press conference also? :P
-
Yoshiki fainted while sitting in an air conditioned room? <_<
-
Hey, I was told my eyes flutter and stay half open and I even move slightly when I faint... It's not like closing your eyes neatly and slumping to the ground with a fanfare... :D
-
Well, it's not even that he fainted (assuming that was the official reason) It's was more of a collapse than anything. I mean, you could see his eyes open and what not.
Does it matter if his eyes were open? He can still be exhausted and unable to continue without being fully unconscious.
Like I said, only Yoshiki knows for sure, though personally I don't think it's at all impossible that it was real. I'm a little less convinced of it nowadays than I was immediately after it happened, but still, I'd say it's "more likely than not" that it was real.
It's like the boy who cried wolf, yeah, so I can see where people don't take it seriously. But even someone who loves to fall over dramatically (and then get back up again) CAN drive himself to exhaustion and collapse for real. :P
-
Of course only Yoshiki (and his doctor) knows, but that doesn't stop us from speculating about it on the internet. :P
The guy has been doing this for over 20 years, he's conditioned for it. Not to mention the breaks he got in between. Fainting due to exhaustion? Come on.
Also, I'm not 100% sure, but when you faint...you're unconscious meaning eyes go closed. <_<
-
Let's say he was not unconscious but he broke down, if that's better for you *g* So I think his breakdown was not staged but it was real.
First when I read about it in the live-ticker I thought, "Yeah, another Yoshiki-Drama-Queen-Moment, come on, we've all see that a hundred times before, get up". But after seeing it myself and reading the comments about how less sleep he had the nights before and how much pressure he must have had onto his shoulders I think this breakdown was for real. He pushed himself to get the drumpart of Art of Life done and then when he wanted to stand up his body just said "No no, my friend, enough for today" and that's it.
I don't know if that's the truth, but at least that is what I believe. :wink:
-
Also, I'm not 100% sure, but when you faint...you're unconscious meaning eyes go closed. <_<
I meant that the whites of your eyes are often still visible, which was Yoshiki's case - I think. Never mind though, sorry for adding up unnecessary info. :P :)
-
Where the hell is that link to KURI's blog when I need it?!
IT WAS NOT STAGED.
And why does everyone need to discuss it anyway?!
-
And why does everyone need to discuss it anyway?!
Because not everyone believes it wasn't staged.
It's like when you lie often to your teacher and after a while he doesn't believe you a word, no matter truth or lie.
Same with Yoshiki's fainting. He's done it so often for the effect, some people become sceptical.
-
Of course only Yoshiki (and his doctor) knows, but that doesn't stop us from speculating about it on the internet. :P
Oh yeah, of course. Sorry, I didn't mean that in a "don't speculate on the internet" way-- quite the opposite in fact. ;) I meant it more like "I disagree personally, but I don't mind if people speculate, because I don't automatically trust 'official' sources to be the absolute truth either", etc.
@nage, But what's wrong with discussing it? I mean, yeah, it's not the first discussion on the subject, but if people want to-- why not? It was a pretty dramatic finale to the first night of X Japan's reunion and I'm sure there will always be speculation as to what exactly happened and why.
-
Same with Yoshiki's fainting. He's done it so often for the effect, some people become sceptical.
Well, I don't think it was done for effect that many times...I'm at work now, so cannot check, but I bought one of the interview books and there he says it's real in vast majority of cases, because he considers is his goal to drum so hard that he won't be able to walk away properly after it's finished, hinting he would be dissatisfied if he could.
As for his recent collapse during the first night, I really don't doubt it was real. But at the same time, I understand some people doubt it despite mentioned blog. Because, to be honest, the blogs explains it pretty well and I believe it (though mainly because of what I saw on my very own eyes), but is it a real proof? Not really. It's just a reasonable explanation. And so, many people will believe Yoshiki was really exhausted to the point of collapsing that night (as I do) - and many won't and people will discuss it until everybody gets tired. Period. Nothing wrong about that, as long as they don't really insult Yoshiki.
-
Same with Yoshiki's fainting. He's done it so often for the effect, some people become sceptical.
Well, I don't think it was done for effect that many times...I'm at work now, so cannot check, but I bought one of the interview books and there he says it's real in vast majority of cases, because he considers is his goal to drum so hard that he won't be able to walk away properly after it's finished, hinting he would be dissatisfied if he could.
I don't doubt he was exhausted, but there's no need to stand up 20 times, fall down, crawl, stand up, etc. He as well could just sit/lie there until it got better and THEN stand up. For me that's just acting.
-
I don't doubt he was exhausted, but there's no need to stand up 20 times, fall down, crawl, stand up, etc. He as well could just sit/lie there until it got better and THEN stand up. For me that's just acting.
Might be, yeah. Might not be, though. Hard to imagine for me, but I guess your legs wobble, too, and head is spinning and such (I remember how Yoshiki said that he would usually get pretty sick and vomit after such hard drumming, sometimes much to the despair of the staff). It's not all that simple.
But yeah, I respect Your opinion, ferret. :)
-
I still think the main piece of evidence is the staff carrying him away... I mean THAT hasn't happened before (except for the times he really broke something...), has it?
-
Once he was carried on the stretcher.. so yeah, he's obviously faking it all the time... hpmf...
@Hollywood: I just think it's sad that people doubt this... that they need to discuss this at all. What's good about it? are we going to laugh, thinking everything's ok? that no, this has never had appened before? that he doesn't have any health problems? that he doesn't have to wear that thing for his neck and wrists..? so we rather go with the fact that everything's ok? really just thinking it was staged? oh yeah.. that'd be nice...
this is ridiculous, sorry.... I have enough facts for thinking it was real. And I know what it is to faint. So what I saw would be enough for me too.
-
I think it did, but one can often see the staff waiting nearby, so that he could collapse into their arms like a sack of potatoes (pardon the comparsion :P) once he's off the stage.
Again, in that interview, he sort of complained how sometimes his hair get tangled into the set and that it hurts when they are trying to pick him up and carry him away.
On the other hand, there is that video on Youtube from March 1996, when Yoshiki got badly injured during Dahlia tour and at that time, he walked away by himself.
But as it was said before, only Yoshiki himself and his staff know and honestly, I don't expect him to be bothered enough to feel necessary to prove himself to anybody. :) And in my opinion, there's no need to. He did his fucking best at the concerts. 8)
Once he was carried on the stretcher.. so yeah, he's obviously faking it all the time... hpmf...
Nobody claims that, so let's not stir waters again, okay? :D
-
Here: READ (http://www.twilighthush.com/?p=12)
-
Yeah, I've read that.
But that's not really related to X-freaks, is it?
-
Yeah, I've read that.
But that's not really related to X-freaks, is it?
Does it have to be? O_o It's about what's discussed here now...
-
Well, we have one sort of discussion here and personally, that's the only I care about. If I wanted to argue over there or at JRR, I would go there. But I'm somehow fond of this board and the way we discuss things here, so bringing a sort of out-of-the-blue perspective into this debate felt a bit... well, weird.
-
Here: READ (http://www.twilighthush.com/?p=12)
The post and most of the comments are pretty one sided, and that "religion" statement works the other way round, as well. (this forum has evidence of that)
-
Well, we have one sort of discussion here and personally, that's the only I care about. If I wanted to argue over there or at JRR, I would go there. But I'm somehow fond of this board and the way we discuss things here, so bringing a sort of out-of-the-blue perspective into this debate felt a bit... well, weird.
There are the facts about the circumstances during which happened what we're discussing. That's what I wanted to show. Not the debate below.
-
You could read the other side of the opinions from the link posted at the first page of this thread.
I'm tired already with this issue and opinions and talks regarding this matter. It will be endless and by the end of the day only anger & dissatisfaction (in any level) are left.
Speaking up your opinions is ok as long as not influencing people to follow your path or else the debate getting too ridiculous to even be read by a 10 year old.
As my side, I believe in the blog Kuri posted (inc by puting aside any subjective feelings).
-
But I was referring to the "faking all the time" thing. I said nobody is really claiming that, period.
-
Ok.
I'll shut up now. :)
-
Looking at it from a perspective of intellectual history and philosophy, my favourite fields, I would say that generally, a sceptical gloom strongly pervades the West, especially America and anglo-american culture (meaning US and UK and countries that closely emulate, such as Finland :roll: ), as to how "genuine" can an artist be in her performance. We've been so much marinated in commerciality, entertainment, false idols and downright dishonesty just to gain that many extra bucks that it is difficult to conceive of anyone "in the business" doing something "straight from the heart" any longer. Time and again has there been calculation just to maximise the profit and monopolise on people's popularity.
However, I think the Japanese culture is somewhat (refreshingly) different in this aspect. My knowledge of it is somewhat limited, but I think Martin Heidegger, for one, has pointed out that the Japanese do not think like (especially) the anglo-americans. I think one arena where this manifests itself is in calculability on the one hand, rationality on the other.
Yoshiki's performance does not seem down-to-earth and "controlled" in the least. On the contrary, there seems something innocent, chaotic and naive about it that can very rarely be found within angloamerican society. Indeed, innocent, child-like acting and thinking is often hailed as foolish and stupid: in a fantasy series by American author George R. R. Martin, there's a very naive female character with her head in the clouds. She gets loads of sh*t for this world-view from the readers, with only scattered sympathisers here and there.
In reality, what most people don't realise is that this mechanist-rational austere culture has certainly not been with us since forever: it only "won" in England and America after Darwin and rage for technocracy since late-19th century.
Since then, many thinkers, especially in Germany and France, have re-called the culture of poetics, or non-rational, non-calculating, non-commercialised way to act in the world. Sadly, not everyone knows about this.
It is my interpretation that it is these conflicting values within societies that cause some to dismiss Yoshiki's exhaustion "as bull". I personally believe the scene was almost or possibly even completely real, because I have faith in Yoshiki being genuinely, almost astonishingly from the calculating-rational Western perspective, committed to his job. This may be difficult for many to understand but I hope people to be more reflexive regarding their own cultural assumptions and background of thinking.
-
X-J.... marry me...? O_O
-
X-J.... marry me...? O_O
8) Well, I'm 27, what about you? :P
-
Just yesterday, I was talking a bit to my mother about X (seeing as she's got curious after learning about the live in Paris) and when it came to the reunion the first question she asked and answered herself was "Why did they reunite? To make more money i suppose". This kind of approach, and the skepticism I've found from friends when showing the Last Live etc, is something that I've thought about.
It all boiled down to what you've said, only a bit worse formulated in my head. :D
At the same time I don't believe that what you are saying is any longer typical for the japanese society. Tokyo is easily the most commercial city I've yet to visit, the huge billboards everywhere, the obsession with idols, and so on. I would say that especially the music industry has been heavily commercialised, with Johnny's Jimusho and all. My japanese teacher often brings up this point, that popular japanese musicians can't sing these days, only look beautiful (which i find to be true - SMAP etc really have awful voices).
I would rather say that it's fairly particular to X, or at least that the cultural difference isn't the largest factor. After Yoshiki's collapse i looked a bit at the music BBS's at 2ch and doubters were prominent there as well.
-
8) Well, I'm 27, what about you? :P
younger but adult.. since when does age matter? XD
-
Well, call me a gloomy, calculating, biased, jaded, skeptical Westerner, but--
When a band releases more compilations than actual albums, it gets a little tough for me to believe that everything their leader has ever done was purely for innocent-childlike-poetic "artistic reasons".
By the way, I'm not opposed to money and marketing. Not at all. But really... "Starlight Yoshiki" dolls? Got no problem with that, but it's-- heheh-- not exactly my idea of art for art's sake.
And as a sidenote, not all Americans nor all Westerners are "Anglo", as "Anglo" is a prefix relating specifically to England and English descent. I'm an American, but I have no English blood at all. Sorry for the OT and semantic BS, that's just a peeve of mine.
So anyway... Ballad Collection, anyone? :P
-
8) Well, I'm 27, what about you? :P
younger but adult.. since when does age matter? XD
Uuh... 8) Since never. Okay, PM me and let's get down into details... :D Oh, I just PMd you instead... :)
-
Well, call me a gloomy, calculating, biased, jaded, skeptical Westerner, but--
When a band releases more compilations than actual albums, it gets a little tough for me to believe that everything their leader has ever done was purely for innocent-childlike-poetic "artistic reasons".
You're totalising my position; I was referring to the general, ideological characteristics of the cultures. Certainly, praxis requires skills to do business in Japan also. It does not follow, however, that this business-scenting necessarily reaches into the stage and the private self on stage, every breathing moment there, because experience itself is more than rational, level-headed calculation or strictly following a rule-based discourse.
Analogously, a guy or a girl may have non-rational, non-down-to-earth experiences, but it does not follow that s/he's completely detached from practical world... Otherwise s/he'd die... Which, by the way, has not been that distant a possibility in Yoshiki's case. :)
"Starlight Yoshiki" dolls? Got no problem with that, but it's-- heheh-- not exactly my idea of art for art's sake.
There are other aesthetic theories besides "art for art's sake" which, by the way, is an Anglo-American construct famously manifesting in New Criticism. Its mistake is to believe that the aesthetic world is some detachable, pure a priori. I, on the other hand, believe that we cannpt separate aesthetic experience from the rest of life so easily.
And as a sidenote, not all Americans nor all Westerners are "Anglo", as "Anglo" is a prefix relating specifically to England and English descent. I'm an American, but I have no English blood at all. Sorry for the OT and semantic BS, that's just a peeve of mine.
Well, they are as far as intellectual history and culture are concerned. :) In opposition, there's talk of Continental way of thought. These branches have been uniting more only since after the Second World War.
-
When a band releases more compilations than actual albums, it gets a little tough for me to believe that everything their leader has ever done was purely for innocent-childlike-poetic "artistic reasons".
I agree and that is actually a perfectly good reason for scepticism.
There was a little wtf moment for me when I read last year or the year before that, that there will be possibly a "complete" Last Live and a complete whatnot. Thing is, we don't know how complete that really is (except maybe for the people who were at that concert).
It reminds me of George "I milk it all" Lucas (that is just an extreme case, I don't say Yoshiki is exploiting his fans like he does), when he brings out a director's cut of Star Wars every two years or so "with never before scenes", digitally remastered, with 5 trading cards etc. Yeah, and now I feel stupid for buying the director's cut box from two years ago because it said exactly the same "never before seen scenes" blablabla.
-
Eh. I love Yoshiki, it's just sometimes he scares me.
I see Hollywood talking about all of the "Best of" albums and various compliations and then I remembered the English best of album. It made me wonder. If only their pre-existing English songs are thrown in there, then you have to wonder how much he REALLY cares about the music. I mean, sure, Give Me the Pleasure and Desperate Angel are alright songs, but do they really represent X? Not really.
So, I mean...if they re-records X classics like WEEK END, Endless Rain, and X, then that's one thing. But releasing "Give Me The Please" on the album is just an obvious cash grab.
Time will tell.
-
I mean, sure, Give Me the Pleasure and Desperate Angel are alright songs, but do they really represent X? Not really.
How do they not represent X? They are X songs, therefore they represent what the band has accomplished.
-
Well, I meant represent well.
That's like saying Rocky Raccoon represents the Beatles.
-
8) Well, I'm 27, what about you? :P
younger but adult.. since when does age matter? XD
Uuh... 8) Since never. Okay, PM me and let's get down into details... :D Oh, I just PMd you instead... :)
Since when age matters? Well in some cases it's called statutory rape. XD
Edit: Please disregard the above statement. Procrastination in the face of mounting assignments in progress.
-
Well, they are as far as intellectual history and culture are concerned. :) In opposition, there's talk of Continental way of thought. These branches have been uniting more only since after the Second World War.
I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell that the totality of culture in the US is exclusively derived from the culture of England. The US is a melting pot of immigrants (my recent ancestors included), especially in its major cultural centers like LA and NY. If you want to talk about "Western" or "occidental" thought, that would make sense and be perfectly applicable, but saying everything here is "Anglo" is simply not a reflection of reality.
Or to put it more succinctly: if you ever come to the US and start telling people they're all "Anglo" somehow, don't expect to be overly popular among, for example, the legions of we Latin types. ;)
About Yoshiki, ferret's George Lucas comparison is exactly it. I think a Gene Simmons comparison is very apt here too, especially given that Yoshiki is a KISS fan and surely was inspired by their marketing as well.
Now, I'm not saying that Yoshiki isn't a passionate performer or something. He is, and that's part of why I like him so much. I do think he is honestly willing to die onstage for his art, and I really admire that.
But I also admire him as a businessman-- and he IS a businessman. And X Japan IS also about making money, live performances included. Last time I checked, you have to pay to get in.
And there were souvenir stands where they sold 6,500 yen towels. :P
-
I just want to say that I don't care about the people who hated the shows !
About X Japan making money, well, of course they are ! A band couldn't exist without money... now I really don't think X Japan is a "commercial" band.
See, Metallica (which is a band I really like) IS a commercial band ! You can find any Metallica accessory that you want... I even saw toilet seats Metallica...
With X Japan, I can't find any T-Shirts (had to make my own), can't even find Vanishing Vision... seriously, if they wanted to make more money, they could without any problem.
X Japan is like Guns N'Roses on that point in my opinion. They are not TOO much commercial, just what we need so fans can be satisfied (well, if GNR would release an album it'd be cool :D lol).
Towel for 6500yen ? I think it's a correct price. Of what I saw, Japan is a bit more expensive than here. At a regular show, you'd find T-Shirt for sell at about 40$. So I guess it's the normal price.
-
I KNOW this is a little bit late, but I can't believe that noone did this earlier....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/millieqof/leaveyo.jpg)
Edit: Okay, so a guy pulled it in the comments on that blog, but still! A macro had to be done!
-
8) Well, I'm 27, what about you? :P
younger but adult.. since when does age matter? XD
Uuh... 8) Since never. Okay, PM me and let's get down into details... :D Oh, I just PMd you instead... :)
Damn it's on like king kong :lol:
-
I just want to say that I don't care about the people who hated the shows !
About X Japan making money, well, of course they are ! A band couldn't exist without money... now I really don't think X Japan is a "commercial" band.
See, Metallica (which is a band I really like) IS a commercial band ! You can find any Metallica accessory that you want... I even saw toilet seats Metallica...
.
Lol,don't forget about KISS.I like them,but still.....these guys......they've even made a KISS coffin.
-
I just want to say that I don't care about the people who hated the shows !
About X Japan making money, well, of course they are ! A band couldn't exist without money... now I really don't think X Japan is a "commercial" band.
See, Metallica (which is a band I really like) IS a commercial band ! You can find any Metallica accessory that you want... I even saw toilet seats Metallica...
.
Lol,don't forget about KISS.I like them,but still.....these guys......they've even made a KISS coffin.
Well I don't really know KISS ! It's why I took the example of Metallica :D
-
I'm sorry, but there's no way in hell that the totality of culture in the US is exclusively derived from the culture of England.
Who said so? But take a look at history, philosophy and epistemology (for starters)... I'm talking about traditions here, "official" ones. And so is the literature on the topic. BTW: the US is today referred to more as a salad bowl than a melting pot, the melting pot theory would rather contradict your argument, wouldn't it? :D
-
BTW: the US is today referred to more as a salad bowl than a melting pot, the melting pot theory would rather contradict your argument, wouldn't it? :D
But you knew precisely what I meant, didn't you? Careful, don't get even more hung up on semantics than I am. ;)
Towel for 6500yen ? I think it's a correct price. Of what I saw, Japan is a bit more expensive than here. At a regular show, you'd find T-Shirt for sell at about 40$. So I guess it's the normal price.
OK, yeah, stuff is expensive in Japan, but... they were selling TOWELS! That's so obscure and so let's-slap-this-logo-on-everything. :P I also thought it was pretty amusing because it was in such (unintentionally I'm sure) poor taste. I agree that X doesn't seem to have oversaturated their market yet, at least, but... X condoms? Mint cases? Yoshiki perfume and panties?
And I'm not saying "omg too commercial!", because I really don't mind it at all, I just think it's funny. And if I had been at those concerts, I'm sure I would've been tempted to buy a set of towels for my bathroom.
-
Whether you have a Sadistic Desire, or are in the mood for Standing Sex...Whether it is the Weekend or time for a Celebration... The new X Japan "Give me the pleasure" Condoms are here to satisfy you and your partners every need. Guaranteed to withlast 20 minute Orgasms so you and your partner can discover the REAL Art of Life.
(Comes in two colours, Blue Blood and Kurenai)
-
Thats funny, but i don't know if i should laugh or not :S
-
That is perfect! :lol:
-
Whether you have a Sadistic Desire, or are in the mood for Standing Sex...Whether it is the Weekend or time for a Celebration... The new X Japan "Give me the pleasure" Condoms are here to satisfy you and your partners every need. Guaranteed to withlast 20 minute Orgasms so you and your partner can discover the REAL Art of Life.
(Comes in two colours, Blue Blood and Kurenai)
:lol: :lol: :lol: That's cool... XD
-
BTW: the US is today referred to more as a salad bowl than a melting pot, the melting pot theory would rather contradict your argument, wouldn't it? :D
But you knew precisely what I meant, didn't you? Careful, don't get even more hung up on semantics than I am. ;)
The point is, from a salad bowl doesn't follow non-Anglo-Americanness in an intellectual sense... :) If we consider the way American science and society work, rationality, empiricism, progress and consumerism are very much its cornerstones in spite of nowadays acknowledged post-colonialism. It is impervious in this sense to a critique of modernity that many Europeans have come up with and that the Japanese culture, from what I've read and seen, doesn't recognize in a similar, all-encompassing form.
Paradoxically, though (Central) Europeans are more sceptical of these four elements, their tradition still more readily recognises the subjective/aesthetic existential condition in much wider areas of life than the more bourgeois Anglo-American thought which, again paradoxically, has lost faith in "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" in spite of its stronger (Enlightenment) optimistic belief in progress and what not. This is, arguably, the result of seeing the world through the glasses of austere, "colder", mechanicist science/culture whose key beliefs are mentioned above.
-
Paradoxically, though (Central) Europeans are more sceptical of these four elements, their tradition still more readily recognises the subjective/aesthetic existential condition in much wider areas of life than the more bourgeois Anglo-American thought which, again paradoxically, has lost faith in "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" in spite of its stronger (Enlightenment) optimistic belief in progress and what not. This is, arguably, the result of seeing the world through the glasses of austere, "colder", mechanicist science/culture whose key beliefs are mentioned above.
Being a Central European myself, I cannot say I completely agree, at least a far as "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" are concerned. :?
-
Paradoxically, though (Central) Europeans are more sceptical of these four elements, their tradition still more readily recognises the subjective/aesthetic existential condition in much wider areas of life than the more bourgeois Anglo-American thought which, again paradoxically, has lost faith in "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" in spite of its stronger (Enlightenment) optimistic belief in progress and what not. This is, arguably, the result of seeing the world through the glasses of austere, "colder", mechanicist science/culture whose key beliefs are mentioned above.
Being a Central European myself, I cannot say I completely agree, at least a far as "genuinity" and "primordial sincerity of acting" are concerned. :?
Then you may not have become aware of Continental Philosophy and intellectual history on which your society's based on...
It all started from Nietzsche, de Saussure, Kierkegaard and Husserl (and later Freud), tradition of Lebensphilosophie.
To Americans, this branch of Continental Philosophy has until recently been virtually alien, because they jumped into the Darwinist bandwagon of positivist natural/social science besides their Lockean materialist conception of capitalism (where the right to hold private property was front and center) and post-Jacksonian and pragmatic "common sense philosophy". Its key manifestation was industrialism (and later, in extremis, Marxism). The second source was Britain. You can read more at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_philosophy
I quote:
From the early 20th century until the 1960s, continental philosophers were only intermittently discussed in British and American universities. Mentions of continental philosophy were usually dismissive or hostile. However, due to student demand, philosophy departments began offering courses in continental philosophy in the late 1960s and 1970s. With post-modernism in the 1970s and 1980s, analytic philosophers became more vocally opposed to the methods and conclusions of continental philosophers. Derrida, for example, was the target of polemics by John Searle and, later, assorted signatories protesting an honorary degree given to Derrida by Cambridge University.
While American and British universities continue to offer courses devoted to continental philosophy, the divide between analytic and continental philosophy is more explicit than it was prior to the 1960s. The majority of academic periodicals in philosophy today, which are analytic journals, only accept papers "written in a broadly analytic style". The differentiating terms, "continental" and "analytic", appear with increasing frequency in book titles. Meanwhile, university departments in literature, the fine arts, film, sociology, and political theory have increasingly incorporated ideas and arguments from continental philosophers into their curricula and research.
http://www.autodidactproject.org/guidlebn.html
To be sure, the Western, or, Anglo-American, post-industrialist popular culture, in highlighting popular entertainment and consumerism, which cannot be dissected from aforementioned values, has been uniting in the past century towards "the American way," much to the chagrin of many Continental thinkers.
My point all along was that criticism of this current is to be found in Continental, i.e. European thinkers, and that the Japanese do not approach the issue similarly.
A normal person from the street who hasn't read on the subject may not even realize this. Reading about these things is, however, my job :)
- To be exact, no-one experiences the world similarly, but nevertheless "the guidelines", or epistemes in Foucaldian terminology, can be dissected through careful studying.
-
what the hell
-
Then you may not have become aware of Continental Philosophy and intellectual history on which your society's based on...
A normal person from the street who hasn't read on the subject may not even realize this. Reading about these things is, however, my job Smile
Right. An ignorant person from the streets goes playing with her Find Andy books. I guess I will use my academic papers as isolation during tough winter from now on. :roll:
-
Then you may not have become aware of Continental Philosophy and intellectual history on which your society's based on...
A normal person from the street who hasn't read on the subject may not even realize this. Reading about these things is, however, my job Smile
Excuse me? Aren't you being a little arrogant here? :?
I do consider myself quite informed on the subject, being an academic myself; I was merely reffering to the real situation here here.
Well, arrogant or not (ad hominem is no argument, mind :wink: ), the real situation is that the gulf between European and American thought has grown, with any dialogue only during the past 50 years, because European Continental thinkers are largely more hostile to values of modernity. At the same time, popular culture has been exported from America into Europe, but this does not change the fact that the thought patterns are different, especially in thinkers from Switzerland, Austria, France and Germany.
The values of modernity are prone to view everything as calculated and industrialised. It also doesn't value naivety and irrationality, and it disregards questions of existenz, in contrast to the tradition of Lebenshilosophie and its subsequent (i.e. Continental) modulations.
-
Hey, comment on Andy, too! :P
-
Right. An ignorant person from the streets goes playing with her Find Andy books. I guess I will use my academic papers as isolation during tough winter from now on. :roll:
Hey, I didn't mean it like that, don't take it personally on yourself. :)
Of course you may well have better knowledge how things stand in Czech Republic today. In Finland, even though we belong to Europe, we have until very recently emulated the Anglo-American, not Continental, thought patterns. Which makes me a gypsy of sorts in own my country... :cry:
I summarize my point by saying that I approach X from a Continental perspective (I agree with many of their observations), and this possibly explains my more aesthetico-idealist attitude to their performances. It's a question of world-view.
-
what the hell
Yeah, second that.
-
Hey, I didn't mean it like that, don't take it personally on yourself. Smile
'S okay. :D (Sadly, I don't even own Andy. :P )
In Finland, even though we belong to Europe, we have until very recently emulated the Anglo-American, not Continental, thought patterns. Which makes me a gypsy of sorts in own my country... Crying or Very sad
I understand Your feelings, because I believe it's the same here... :? And as a side note, teaching about Japanese culture and philosophy is one of my jobs, so I have to agree on the topic of "Japanese genuineness". But I agree with Hollywood, too, as far as X-Japan case (especially Yoshiki's approach) is concerned.
-
@_@ This thread is weird...
-
I understand Your feelings, because I believe it's the same here... :? And as a side note, teaching about Japanese culture and philosophy is one of my jobs, so I have to agree on the topic of "Japanese genuineness".
That's interesting, I'm writing a Ph.D. myself :) You proboably know more about the Japanese culture than I, mine are just observations and intrusions, observations, however, that I've done as a relative "outsider" to my surrounding thinking. My intuition was correct if you agree with me on the different values between US vs. Japan.
But I agree with Hollywood, too, as far as X-Japan case (especially Yoshiki's approach) is concerned.
I agree as far as business (as an activity) is concerned, but I disagree as far as Yoshiki's existential experience is concerned (thus, I'm the more Continental observer :) ). You just don't act crazy, engage in self-immolation and think about money and plan it all in the process. I think that's simply a contradiction in terms.
Easing the pain/difficulty (of everything), on the contrary, is what analytic thought values, but I honestly think, or experience, this leisurely approach and easiness runs counter to many things (almost everything except praxis of business etc.) Yoshiki stands for.
-
@_@ This thread is weird...
Agreed. :D It borders on off-topic but I'm a fan of cultural analyses, what makes Yoshiki/X tick, and how it relates to others! :) Forgive me? :oops: :)
-
My intuition was correct if you agree with me on the different values between US vs. Japan.
I sure agree, different values and ways of thinking is something I meet every day as an interpreter (one also has to have several jobs here if he wants to devote himself to studies profesionally :D ). Sometimes it means hours of overtime work, as vanquishing cultural barriers is often much more difficult that dealing with mere language.
-
Ow... it was just getting interesting. :D
-
Ow... it was just getting interesting. :D
second that. this what makes X freaks different. =p
-
It's only been dicussed that Continental Philosophy is different than "Anglo" perspectives, and thus people will have differing opinions on the issue. All that space used just to explain why people will have different perspectives....
But was it staged....the real question.
Anwser that Nietzsche.
P.s. Fangirls don't like Nietzsche, cause of the moustache.
-
Eh, the only way we can overcome cultural barriers is by talking through it, not by staying in your own compound and expecting them to do the same. :P
Nietzche won't be able to say anything. Cause he was dead and buried by the time the 'Say Anything' single was released. ;)
That said, the accusation of Yoshiki staging his fall was a result of his often-overdramatic 'falls' during concert. As someone has mentioned, a case of the 'Cry-Wolf syndrome'.
-
was it staged? then read some facts in the link previously posted.
The real question is.. do you believe in those facts? or from what I gather, do you believe that they are facts?
If so, blah, this whole discussion will just keep being repeated again and again making a big round. :?
-
Eh, the only way we can overcome cultural barriers is by talking through it, not by staying in your own compound and expecting them to do the same. Razz
I wish the people I'm working for knew as much. :?
But yes, the whole debate will just go over and over. I guess I'm leaving. 8)
-
P.s. Fangirls don't like Nietzsche, cause of the moustache.
Man, so true. But if you ran him in a "who is the most sexy?" poll against Yoshiki, I bet he'd surprise everyone and get second place anyway.
Oh, thank god for threads like this. I learn so much. I mean, without this thread, I NEVER would have realized that:
1. I'm an Englishman, and my Mexican friends are Englishmen too! :D
2. Because I'm not Japanese, I'm a coldhearted bastard and generally suck. :(
3. There are people who can BS on the internet even better than me. :(
...Pardon me, I think I need to go listen to my innocent-childlike-noncommercial Ballad Collection and feel sorry for myself because I'm... I'm... not Japanese! :cry:
:lol:
Anyway, yeah, I still think Yoshiki really did collapse (despite X Japan being amusingly commercial at times), but the debate will go on forever I'm sure, and personally that doesn't bother me. It's only natural considering the drama of what happened, after all.
-
...Pardon me, I think I need to go listen to my innocent-childlike-noncommercial Ballad Collection and feel sorry for myself because I'm... I'm... not Japanese! Crying or Very sad
Man... :D
-
Guys/girls... :) You really got me hooked with the debating, for a minute little else mattered. I apologize if I hurt someone, I do hope not.
I guess I'm one of those few (as well as maybe Anna) who can combine work and play... When I read Heideggerian existentialist philosophy of de-construction (it is my favourite) and contemporary aesthetics, yes, I'm at times very much thinking about Yoshiki and X as art and cultural phenomenon... :lol: My first thread here was about X Japan as art.
My studies is a passion, and X is a passion, and these both I turn into subjective self-reflection about me, my culture, and other cultures. That's my vocation.
No wonder they don't always pay grad students well here :lol:
-
Russian Yoshiki would have collapsed 'cause the wodka was too much for him.
Vodka!! omg Vodka! normal V.. and Russian would NEVER collapse because of VODKA! XDDDD Tha's only abut 40+%
:lol: :lol: But Babak, you can always make me laugh! XD I love you for that, hehe...
...Pardon me, I think I need to go listen to my innocent-childlike-noncommercial Ballad Collection and feel sorry for myself because I'm... I'm... not Japanese!
-_-;
-
Heh, isn't it wodka in Russian? Here in Sweden, vodka is the term for.. well... ordinary vodka. Wodka is ACTUALL RUSSIAN SHIT THAT'S REALLY STRONG (AND SO EFFECTIVE I NEED TO WRITE THIS IN CAPS! ;D
Oh, you meant THAT SHIT? blergh... ok, my mistake! XD
I love you too. In fact, I love all ya guys, even the ones who like to argue and those who don't. Those who are Japanese and those who aren't. Those who... ok I think you get it by now :roll:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
-
Man, this thread is way above my IQ level.
*eats a biscuit in a corner*
-
Right?
I was sitting here like "oh, that word I know...oh, I know that one, too".
I might have understood it in German, but my English is below that level.
-
I think either way is alright with me (sorry to bring it up again). but if it was a real collapse, then i'm glad he's fine, and it means he was putting his all. but if it was staged, what a show! :D,it was engaging either way, to say the least.
-
actually.. good job X-J for making this thread seriously different from normal one judging from the title.
It sounds very interesting...
altho.. i will do the same as zwanster.. sharing some biscuits in the corner.. anyone else wanna join us? =p
-
actually.. good job X-J for making this thread seriously different from normal one judging from the title.
It sounds very interesting...
altho.. i will do the same as zwanster.. sharing some biscuits in the corner.. anyone else wanna join us? =p
I'll join! I'm getting confused looking at all the post. @_@
-
altho.. i will do the same as zwanster.. sharing some biscuits in the corner.. anyone else wanna join us? =p
*brings some coconut biscuits* ^^ let's sit down guys...
-
I think either way is alright with me (sorry to bring it up again). but if it was a real collapse, then i'm glad he's fine, and it means he was putting his all. but if it was staged, what a show! :D,it was engaging either way, to say the least.
Well said-- that's how I feel about it too. Some very X-worthy drama either way.
-
Munch munch munch.
Seriously, some people are far too intelligent, makes my mind hurt.
-
Munch munch munch.
Seriously, some people are far too intelligent, makes my mind hurt.
Yeah, I feel so dumb and stupid... >.>;
-
Munch munch munch.
Seriously, some people are far too intelligent, makes my mind hurt.
Yeah, I feel so dumb and stupid... >.>;
All I saw was something about "anglo" somethings, my mind switched off at that point. There were too many words :cry: and English is my first language :lol:
-
My mind is off most of the time... XD
and English is my first language :lol:
Haaa, this reminds meeee... we gotta do some meeting when I'm in London... ^_^ I hope I'll be able to get there at the end of June... and I'm planning to stay (if I find a job) till the end of September... :3
-
I love you, guys XDD
Well, I didn't understand everything here as well.
xD Cookies ~ *_*
-
My mind is off most of the time... XD
and English is my first language :lol:
Haaa, this reminds meeee... we gotta do some meeting when I'm in London... ^_^ I hope I'll be able to get there at the end of June... and I'm planning to stay (if I find a job) till the end of September... :3
Hehe yeah definetly! You can outdo me in my own language :lol:
-
You can outdo me in my own language :lol:
I highly doubt that... ^_~
-
You can outdo me in my own language :lol:
I highly doubt that... ^_~
I don't :lol:
-
YAXL-ROSHIKI, made a real valid point though, I found it more hilarious than offensive! "BRING A BOOK" xDDDDDD
-
YAXL-ROSHIKI, made a real valid point though, I found it more hilarious than offensive! "BRING A BOOK" xDDDDDD
The dude who runs that blog thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread. I hate people who speak with such arrogance and ignorance, especially considering that above all else he has no knowledge of music theory. :p
-
YAXL-ROSHIKI, made a real valid point though, I found it more hilarious than offensive! "BRING A BOOK" xDDDDDD
The dude who runs that blog thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread. I hate people who speak with such arrogance and ignorance, especially considering that above all else he has no knowledge of music theory. :p
Haha yeah I get what you mean he was just being a dick tbh. I just thought his arrogance was hilarious. I wouldn't be that pissed off. I waited like 4-5 hrs to see Dir en grey once. At FUSE In London they had like 4-5hrs worth of video games to be shown, about 6 support bands and finally we got 30mins of Dir en grey and I missed me coach home X_X.
I think if I was at X, I could relate myself to that moment and realise how grateful I am for seeing the band aswell as not waiting aslong as then!
-
YAXL-ROSHIKI, made a real valid point though, I found it more hilarious than offensive! "BRING A BOOK" xDDDDDD
The dude who runs that blog thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread. I hate people who speak with such arrogance and ignorance, especially considering that above all else he has no knowledge of music theory. :p
Haha yeah I get what you mean he was just being a dick tbh. I just thought his arrogance was hilarious. I wouldn't be that pissed off. I waited like 4-5 hrs to see Dir en grey once. At FUSE In London they had like 4-5hrs worth of video games to be shown, about 6 support bands and finally we got 30mins of Dir en grey and I missed me coach home X_X.
I think if I was at X, I could relate myself to that moment and realise how grateful I am for seeing the band aswell as not waiting aslong as then!
I didn't mind the concert being late, the X fans outside the dome were great. It was great to socialise and meet all of them, the only grumble I had is that the weather turned cold and rainy just before they let us in :/
I was so jetlagged at the time though, I was nearly falling asleep sat in my seat on the 28th - but when the lights went down and the crowd went wild I had second wind :p
-
from yoshiki's autobio now we know that they had to finish the first concert because of the tokyo dome issue. The hologram had issues and they were 2 hours late and Tokyo Dome had a strict rule of closing curtain at a certain time. There was no choice but to cut the show in half. And of course you cannot just walk out and say, hey peeps, Tokyo Dome wants us to go home, bye! He faked the fainting, so it was easier on fans' minds. Which also describes why he was perfectly fine on the 2nd and 3rd days. :)