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Bird's nest - Spring 2009

darkcat21 · 18133

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Offline darkcat21

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on: October 08, 2008, 09:50:19 PM
Yoshiki said this in an interview today!



EDIT by Hypno: A BIT better than the last thread... Next time explain everything with the first post please.


So, according to a Yoshiki interview found here, X Japan is planning a concert in Beijing National Stadium, aka the Bird's Nest, in 2009, after the other concerts.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 10:49:22 PM by Hypno »

hi there


Offline julien

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Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 10:13:24 PM
Bird's nest?

why did he say that?

X JAPAN [Belgian Street Team]

   | ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|
 |We want old songs ! |
 |___________|
       ∧∧ ||
    ( ゚д゚)||
    / づΦ


Offline Matthias

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Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008, 10:20:35 PM
Thanks for the info, and for the people who don't know what 'Bird's Nest' is, it's a common nickname for the Beijing National Stadium.



Offline darkcat21

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Offline denx

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Reply #4 on: October 09, 2008, 02:36:51 AM
any exact date?

Ex denxdenx


Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 06:12:19 AM
WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
I HAVE TO GO THERE

(My sister lives in Beijing)
WHAT WHAT WEAHT VDVBDFXH



Offline julien

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Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 06:30:42 PM
Thanks for the info, and for the people who don't know what 'Bird's Nest' is, it's a common nickname for the Beijing National Stadium.

Thanks ! I thought it really was a bird's nest XD

X JAPAN [Belgian Street Team]

   | ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|
 |We want old songs ! |
 |___________|
       ∧∧ ||
    ( ゚д゚)||
    / づΦ


Offline aruzo

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Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 10:23:35 PM
Thanks for the info, and for the people who don't know what 'Bird's Nest' is, it's a common nickname for the Beijing National Stadium.

Thanks ! I thought it really was a bird's nest XD

Haha, I was confused!

Is that the stadium they used for the olympics?



Offline Sander

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Reply #8 on: December 20, 2008, 12:40:40 PM
According to recordchina.co.jp, X Japan won't be allowed to preform at the Beijing National Stadium, also known as the Bird's Nest. A Beijing Culture office official said that they will not allow any foreigner, in particular, any Japanese, to give the first musical performance of the venue.

The Chinese promoters have suggested an alternative venue in Shangai, but Yoshiki has reportedly declined to give up on the Bird's Nest and has not accepted the alternative.

X Japan was supposed to preform there in Spring 2009, the stadium was opened in the end of June, 2008, for the Olympics, with the capacity of 80 000 people (91,000 with temporary seats for the Olympics). X Japan would have been the first musical venture to preform there. Chinese artists have, reportedly, shown little interest in preforming there, due to high rental fees.

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Offline nage

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Reply #9 on: December 20, 2008, 12:51:40 PM
Wow, now THAT is something completely RETARDED, considering the fact it's 21st century, bloody hell!


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Offline MIHO

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Reply #10 on: December 20, 2008, 01:03:08 PM
well that's complete bull***t.

edit: I meant that I think it's stupid and ridiculous, not that Hypno's source is bad or something :p



Offline Matthias

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Reply #11 on: December 20, 2008, 01:04:05 PM
To be honest, I'm not that surprised that there could be problems with the venue.



Offline kbish33

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Reply #12 on: December 20, 2008, 01:13:16 PM
yet something else to disrupt the world tour. Its almost like its not meant to be.



Offline Sander

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Reply #13 on: December 20, 2008, 01:30:33 PM
I'm not that surprised either really, it's not surprising for a country that big to be a bit ethnocentric. I mean it IS the first ever musical performance there, and that stadium is a national pride for them. If they weren't the first ones, I'm sure they'd be allowed there.

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Offline MIHO

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Reply #14 on: December 20, 2008, 01:34:37 PM
yet something else to disrupt the world tour. Its almost like its not meant to be.

That's what i thought. WHY is it so hard for the best band ever to dominate the world? WHY?



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #15 on: December 20, 2008, 02:42:25 PM
Well Done Yoshiki! Keep on pushing them until they let X Japan perform there, don't allow their racism to take over.

X Japan is about breaking down boundries, so please - stopping putting them up you damned communists!



Offline alex

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Reply #16 on: December 20, 2008, 04:35:24 PM
Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.

The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #17 on: December 20, 2008, 06:11:45 PM
Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.

The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.

This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.



Offline xScQ

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Reply #18 on: December 20, 2008, 07:45:14 PM
Maybe it'll also teach the management and X Japan to shut up until things are final.



Offline Maverick

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Reply #19 on: December 20, 2008, 10:47:54 PM
Actually I'm not really surprised that that happened now - I'm rather surprised that that happens so late...

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Pocku

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Reply #20 on: December 21, 2008, 02:42:16 AM
Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.

The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.

This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.

But isn't it's kind of understandable why the anti-Japanese sentiment is there? It's been less than a century since the atrocities have been committed and those were almost or just as bad as what Hitler did to the Jews. Yet, not a whole lot of people know of events like the Nanjing Massacre and to add insult to injury, even the Japanese government isn't fully or openly acknowledging what happened.

I'm not saying Chinese people have the justification to hate or that they should hate the Japanese but I don't think people should call them racist or call what the government is doing as stupid without understanding why China and Japan's relationship is strained first.

But yeah, people should stop being so stubborn. Let bygone be bygone, admit to past faults, and choose another venue. But we all know Yoshiki ain't gonna do that. ;D And who knows, Yoshiki's got some pretty impressive persuasion skills, maybe he'll be able to charm the higher-ups into letting X Japan perform, lol. :D
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 10:47:45 AM by Pocku »



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #21 on: December 21, 2008, 03:10:35 AM
Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.

The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.

This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.

But isn't it's kind of understandable why the anti-Japanese sentiment is there? It's been less than a century since the atrocities have been committed and those were almost or just as bad as what Hitler did to the Jews. Yet, not a whole lot of people know of events like the Nanjing Massacre and to add insult to injury, even the Japanese government isn't fully or openly acknowledging what happened.

I'm not saying Chinese people have the justification to hate or that they should hate the Japanese but I don't think people should call them racist or call what the government is doing as stupid without understanding why China and Japan's relationship is strained first. (I'm not refering to you here btw)

But yeah, people should stop being so stubborn. Let bygone be bygone, admit to past faults, and choose another venue. But we all know Yoshiki ain't gonna do that. ;D And who knows, Yoshiki's got some pretty impressive persuasion skills, maybe he'll be able to charm the higher-ups into letting X Japan perform, lol. :D

Okay, yeah - say you're right. Let's all ban the Germans from playing concerts in our contries - afterall, it's understandable, right - they tried to take over the world and all. While we are at it, let's go and kick all the muslims out of our contries. Afterall, those few Jihadist's are sure causing one hell of a stirr.

It's not understandable, it's not understandable AT ALL

Nationalism is fucking stupid, people have NO RIGHT to associate the decisions of government to the people who are born in a specific nature. It's racism and it's wrong - if you think that the Chinese population have ANY right to feel upset at the fact that a group of post-war Japanese musicians want to play a concert in their national stadium on the grounds that they are Japanese you are an absolute moron and you don't deserve to have a say in the discussion.

Don't be so stupid.



Offline alex

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Reply #22 on: December 21, 2008, 05:16:12 AM
Okay, yeah - say you're right. Let's all ban the Germans from playing concerts in our contries - afterall, it's understandable, right - they tried to take over the world and all. While we are at it, let's go and kick all the muslims out of our contries. Afterall, those few Jihadist's are sure causing one hell of a stirr.

It's not understandable, it's not understandable AT ALL

Nationalism is fucking stupid, people have NO RIGHT to associate the decisions of government to the people who are born in a specific nature. It's racism and it's wrong - if you think that the Chinese population have ANY right to feel upset at the fact that a group of post-war Japanese musicians want to play a concert in their national stadium on the grounds that they are Japanese you are an absolute moron and you don't deserve to have a say in the discussion.

Don't be so stupid.

I think you are the one to reconsider your stance on this. You make it sound very simple when it is not. I wonder, what do you propose the Asian governments should do to protest against Japan? Are you saying that they should just swallow the Japanese way of pretending like their atrocities in the past weren't all thaaat bad? There's a clear difference between your example and this situation since Germany took responsibility in a way which Japan chose not to. The fact remains that the Japanese government do not acknowledge undeniable proof. In fact, they even try to hide things from Japanese citizens. Sure, China aren't any angels when it comes to objectivity and absolute truth in their official books neither, but it doesn't matter as much because they are not the ones at fault here, and unless Japan changes their policy of semi-denial, it will remain so.

Though, I have to add that it isn't so easy for Japan to come clean. It's probably not so fun to make proper apologies to a dictatorship government that doesn't really care about their citizens' rights. I also suspect some Asian countries unfairly will give Japan a really hard time about it afterwards. There's no simple solution, but I do think the people of Asia deserve recognition.

It has nothing to do with racism, it's simply (Asian) politics. If there's any racism involved whatsoever, I can assure you it would be from the Japanese side. China is a multi-ethnic/multi-cultural country whilst Japan is pretty much homogeneous. Nationalism is however widespread on both sides. You should keep in mind that they are still allowed to perform in China, just not in what has become a national symbol of the country. That is the only reason to why this has become political.

By the way, calling China a developed country isn't quite right, unless you're referring to cities only.



Offline Maverick

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Reply #23 on: December 21, 2008, 08:18:55 AM
Somehow I have come that seen that the war-responsibility discussion rises up...
Well, I can understand why X want to play in the Bird's Nest. I also understand Chinese Government why they don't want that to happen. Since to them it might feel like a slap in the face when in the biggest staduim in Beijing first a JAPANESE band is playing, when not even a Chinese band played there before.
For X, naturally, that is also a symbol to show their friendship. But still, this is not so easy.
Many people say Japan hasn't taken responsibility of what happened back then. However, this is not true in any way. But it's also clear that it is not as acknowleged as the Germans did (and IMO the American occupation plays a big role in that matter, as well.) and there are still lots of right wing organizations around who have another point of view.
Tricky and looooong story... but the Sino-Japanese relationship however is strained and it for sure takes more than a concert to solve their disagreements.

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline Pocku

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Reply #24 on: December 21, 2008, 10:40:15 AM

Okay, yeah - say you're right. Let's all ban the Germans from playing concerts in our contries - afterall, it's understandable, right - they tried to take over the world and all. While we are at it, let's go and kick all the muslims out of our contries. Afterall, those few Jihadist's are sure causing one hell of a stirr.

It's not understandable, it's not understandable AT ALL

Nationalism is fucking stupid, people have NO RIGHT to associate the decisions of government to the people who are born in a specific nature. It's racism and it's wrong - if you think that the Chinese population have ANY right to feel upset at the fact that a group of post-war Japanese musicians want to play a concert in their national stadium on the grounds that they are Japanese you are an absolute moron and you don't deserve to have a say in the discussion.

Don't be so stupid.

What? Just because I have a different opinion than you, suddenly I'm a moron and is stripped of my rights to take part in this discussion? Wonder if anyone else will agree with that kind of logic. 

If you were actually paying attention to my post, then you wouldn't have used Germany or Muslims as your examples. Stop spewing things like who has the right to think/do what when you're not even willing to listen.

Besides, if Japanese people in general have acknowledged what their country has done and think it's wrong, they could always have demostrations. Yet, demostrations of these kinds are few and small within the country.


I think you are the one to reconsider your stance on this. You make it sound very simple when it is not. I wonder, what do you propose the Asian governments should do to protest against Japan? Are you saying that they should just swallow the Japanese way of pretending like their atrocities in the past weren't all thaaat bad? There's a clear difference between your example and this situation since Germany took responsibility in a way which Japan chose not to. The fact remains that the Japanese government do not acknowledge undeniable proof. In fact, they even try to hide things from Japanese citizens. Sure, China aren't any angels when it comes to objectivity and absolute truth in their official books neither, but it doesn't matter as much because they are not the ones at fault here, and unless Japan changes their policy of semi-denial, it will remain so.


Couldn't have said it better.


Many people say Japan hasn't taken responsibility of what happened back then. However, this is not true in any way. But it's also clear that it is not as acknowleged as the Germans did (and IMO the American occupation plays a big role in that matter, as well.) and there are still lots of right wing organizations around who have another point of view.

If the Chinese government had actually publicized and acknowledge the contributions that Japan made, maybe, MAYBE, things wouldn't have be so bad. But I think what's really getting to the Chinese is because Japan isn't fully acknowledging what they've done.

Tricky and looooong story... but the Sino-Japanese relationship however is strained and it for sure takes more than a concert to solve their disagreements.
 
If one concert can solve everything, the world would be a muuuuuuuuch better place... but you gotta admit, it'll be pretty awesome if X Japan has the ability to resolve half a century of poltical conflict with just one concert.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 11:21:35 AM by Pocku »



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #25 on: December 21, 2008, 05:29:24 PM
What? Just because I have a different opinion than you, suddenly I'm a moron and is stripped of my rights to take part in this discussion? Wonder if anyone else will agree with that kind of logic. 

If you were actually paying attention to my post, then you wouldn't have used Germany or Muslims as your examples. Stop spewing things like who has the right to think/do what when you're not even willing to listen.

Besides, if Japanese people in general have acknowledged what their country has done and think it's wrong, they could always have demostrations. Yet, demostrations of these kinds are few and small within the country.

My examples are logically sound - they are equally as abstract as you expecting ordinary Japanese citizens to take the burden of their ancestor's crime. X Japan ARE NOT endorsing the crap that went on in World War 2, isn't that enough? Do you expect them to get on their knees and beg for forgiveness for sins they haven't actually committed? They just want to play a rock concert to their fans - fans who may have been waiting for the best part of 20 years to see this band play in their country.

I think you are the one to reconsider your stance on this. You make it sound very simple when it is not. I wonder, what do you propose the Asian governments should do to protest against Japan? Are you saying that they should just swallow the Japanese way of pretending like their atrocities in the past weren't all thaaat bad? There's a clear difference between your example and this situation since Germany took responsibility in a way which Japan chose not to. The fact remains that the Japanese government do not acknowledge undeniable proof. In fact, they even try to hide things from Japanese citizens. Sure, China aren't any angels when it comes to objectivity and absolute truth in their official books neither, but it doesn't matter as much because they are not the ones at fault here, and unless Japan changes their policy of semi-denial, it will remain so.

Though, I have to add that it isn't so easy for Japan to come clean. It's probably not so fun to make proper apologies to a dictatorship government that doesn't really care about their citizens' rights. I also suspect some Asian countries unfairly will give Japan a really hard time about it afterwards. There's no simple solution, but I do think the people of Asia deserve recognition.

It has nothing to do with racism, it's simply (Asian) politics. If there's any racism involved whatsoever, I can assure you it would be from the Japanese side. China is a multi-ethnic/multi-cultural country whilst Japan is pretty much homogeneous. Nationalism is however widespread on both sides. You should keep in mind that they are still allowed to perform in China, just not in what has become a national symbol of the country. That is the only reason to why this has become political.

You're missing the point. What does any of this have to do with X Japan? X Japan is a band, they play music - they don't stand for the Japanese political system or endorse the things that went on several generations ago. This has nothing to do with X Japan, other than the fact that the members are Japanese.

Yoshiki, Pata, Heath and Toshi have NO responsibility for what went on several generations ago nor do they stand for it. If the Chinese government wants to make them a political scape-goat on account of their nationality then they are doing so illegitamately and for reasons which are close to impeding on human rights.

China is one of the most powerful economic countries in the world, this makes them developed. What their government chooses to do with the money is their problem.



Offline Matthias

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Reply #26 on: December 21, 2008, 06:09:53 PM
Correct, X Japan is just a band, and if the Chinese government isn't willing to let them perform at Bird's Nest they should play at another venue.



Offline darkcat21

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Reply #27 on: December 21, 2008, 08:12:04 PM
who has said that the chinese goverment has asked them not to play? it was a local office from beijing, not the government

Quote
This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.
free ireland

hi there


Offline Matthias

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Reply #28 on: December 21, 2008, 08:16:53 PM
Replace 'Government' with 'Beijing Culture office official', doesn't change that much what I was saying ;-)



Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #29 on: December 21, 2008, 08:41:42 PM
who has said that the chinese goverment has asked them not to play? it was a local office from beijing, not the government

Erm yeah, buddy - that's still a Government organisation.

free ireland

They've been free for a long time now. I guess that just like Gibraltar, they don't want people telling them what to do :p
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 08:44:34 PM by Beauty/Broken »