X Freaks Forum
The band => The Concerts => X JAPAN World Tour => Topic started by: darkcat21 on October 08, 2008, 09:50:19 PM
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Yoshiki said this in an interview today!
EDIT by Hypno: A BIT better than the last thread... Next time explain everything with the first post please.
So, according to a Yoshiki interview found here (http://www.sanspo.com/geino/news/081009/gnj0810090510021-n1.htm), X Japan is planning a concert in Beijing National Stadium, aka the Bird's Nest, in 2009, after the other concerts.
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Bird's nest?
why did he say that?
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Thanks for the info, and for the people who don't know what 'Bird's Nest' is, it's a common nickname for the Beijing National Stadium.
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http://www.sanspo.com/geino/news/081009/gnj0810090510021-n1.htm
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any exact date?
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WHAT
WHAT
WHAT
I HAVE TO GO THERE
(My sister lives in Beijing)
WHAT WHAT WEAHT VDVBDFXH
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Thanks for the info, and for the people who don't know what 'Bird's Nest' is, it's a common nickname for the Beijing National Stadium.
Thanks ! I thought it really was a bird's nest XD
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Thanks for the info, and for the people who don't know what 'Bird's Nest' is, it's a common nickname for the Beijing National Stadium.
Thanks ! I thought it really was a bird's nest XD
Haha, I was confused!
Is that the stadium they used for the olympics?
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According to recordchina.co.jp (http://www.recordchina.co.jp/group/g26845.html), X Japan won't be allowed to preform at the Beijing National Stadium, also known as the Bird's Nest. A Beijing Culture office official said that they will not allow any foreigner, in particular, any Japanese, to give the first musical performance of the venue.
The Chinese promoters have suggested an alternative venue in Shangai, but Yoshiki has reportedly declined to give up on the Bird's Nest and has not accepted the alternative.
X Japan was supposed to preform there in Spring 2009, the stadium was opened in the end of June, 2008, for the Olympics, with the capacity of 80 000 people (91,000 with temporary seats for the Olympics). X Japan would have been the first musical venture to preform there. Chinese artists have, reportedly, shown little interest in preforming there, due to high rental fees.
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Wow, now THAT is something completely RETARDED, considering the fact it's 21st century, bloody hell!
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well that's complete bull***t.
edit: I meant that I think it's stupid and ridiculous, not that Hypno's source is bad or something :p
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To be honest, I'm not that surprised that there could be problems with the venue.
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yet something else to disrupt the world tour. Its almost like its not meant to be.
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I'm not that surprised either really, it's not surprising for a country that big to be a bit ethnocentric. I mean it IS the first ever musical performance there, and that stadium is a national pride for them. If they weren't the first ones, I'm sure they'd be allowed there.
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yet something else to disrupt the world tour. Its almost like its not meant to be.
That's what i thought. WHY is it so hard for the best band ever to dominate the world? WHY?
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Well Done Yoshiki! Keep on pushing them until they let X Japan perform there, don't allow their racism to take over.
X Japan is about breaking down boundries, so please - stopping putting them up you damned communists!
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Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.
The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.
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Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.
The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.
This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.
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Maybe it'll also teach the management and X Japan to shut up until things are final.
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Actually I'm not really surprised that that happened now - I'm rather surprised that that happens so late...
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Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.
The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.
This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.
But isn't it's kind of understandable why the anti-Japanese sentiment is there? It's been less than a century since the atrocities have been committed and those were almost or just as bad as what Hitler did to the Jews. Yet, not a whole lot of people know of events like the Nanjing Massacre and to add insult to injury, even the Japanese government isn't fully or openly acknowledging what happened.
I'm not saying Chinese people have the justification to hate or that they should hate the Japanese but I don't think people should call them racist or call what the government is doing as stupid without understanding why China and Japan's relationship is strained first.
But yeah, people should stop being so stubborn. Let bygone be bygone, admit to past faults, and choose another venue. But we all know Yoshiki ain't gonna do that. ;D And who knows, Yoshiki's got some pretty impressive persuasion skills, maybe he'll be able to charm the higher-ups into letting X Japan perform, lol. :D
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Racism? The whole region suffers from some historical issues that haven't been properly dealt with. The Chinese government still breeds hate against Japan in their history books, and Japan keeps whitewashing their history books of the atrocities they committed during World War 2. Their relationship is strained even today and since no solution has been found, it's allowed to affect everything.
The Bird's Nest has become a symbol of modern China, so this must be very political indeed. I think Yoshiki would have to gain help from Japanese politicians in order to work out a solution for a possible concert.
This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.
But isn't it's kind of understandable why the anti-Japanese sentiment is there? It's been less than a century since the atrocities have been committed and those were almost or just as bad as what Hitler did to the Jews. Yet, not a whole lot of people know of events like the Nanjing Massacre and to add insult to injury, even the Japanese government isn't fully or openly acknowledging what happened.
I'm not saying Chinese people have the justification to hate or that they should hate the Japanese but I don't think people should call them racist or call what the government is doing as stupid without understanding why China and Japan's relationship is strained first. (I'm not refering to you here btw)
But yeah, people should stop being so stubborn. Let bygone be bygone, admit to past faults, and choose another venue. But we all know Yoshiki ain't gonna do that. ;D And who knows, Yoshiki's got some pretty impressive persuasion skills, maybe he'll be able to charm the higher-ups into letting X Japan perform, lol. :D
Okay, yeah - say you're right. Let's all ban the Germans from playing concerts in our contries - afterall, it's understandable, right - they tried to take over the world and all. While we are at it, let's go and kick all the muslims out of our contries. Afterall, those few Jihadist's are sure causing one hell of a stirr.
It's not understandable, it's not understandable AT ALL
Nationalism is fucking stupid, people have NO RIGHT to associate the decisions of government to the people who are born in a specific nature. It's racism and it's wrong - if you think that the Chinese population have ANY right to feel upset at the fact that a group of post-war Japanese musicians want to play a concert in their national stadium on the grounds that they are Japanese you are an absolute moron and you don't deserve to have a say in the discussion.
Don't be so stupid.
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Okay, yeah - say you're right. Let's all ban the Germans from playing concerts in our contries - afterall, it's understandable, right - they tried to take over the world and all. While we are at it, let's go and kick all the muslims out of our contries. Afterall, those few Jihadist's are sure causing one hell of a stirr.
It's not understandable, it's not understandable AT ALL
Nationalism is fucking stupid, people have NO RIGHT to associate the decisions of government to the people who are born in a specific nature. It's racism and it's wrong - if you think that the Chinese population have ANY right to feel upset at the fact that a group of post-war Japanese musicians want to play a concert in their national stadium on the grounds that they are Japanese you are an absolute moron and you don't deserve to have a say in the discussion.
Don't be so stupid.
I think you are the one to reconsider your stance on this. You make it sound very simple when it is not. I wonder, what do you propose the Asian governments should do to protest against Japan? Are you saying that they should just swallow the Japanese way of pretending like their atrocities in the past weren't all thaaat bad? There's a clear difference between your example and this situation since Germany took responsibility in a way which Japan chose not to. The fact remains that the Japanese government do not acknowledge undeniable proof. In fact, they even try to hide things from Japanese citizens. Sure, China aren't any angels when it comes to objectivity and absolute truth in their official books neither, but it doesn't matter as much because they are not the ones at fault here, and unless Japan changes their policy of semi-denial, it will remain so.
Though, I have to add that it isn't so easy for Japan to come clean. It's probably not so fun to make proper apologies to a dictatorship government that doesn't really care about their citizens' rights. I also suspect some Asian countries unfairly will give Japan a really hard time about it afterwards. There's no simple solution, but I do think the people of Asia deserve recognition.
It has nothing to do with racism, it's simply (Asian) politics. If there's any racism involved whatsoever, I can assure you it would be from the Japanese side. China is a multi-ethnic/multi-cultural country whilst Japan is pretty much homogeneous. Nationalism is however widespread on both sides. You should keep in mind that they are still allowed to perform in China, just not in what has become a national symbol of the country. That is the only reason to why this has become political.
By the way, calling China a developed country isn't quite right, unless you're referring to cities only.
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Somehow I have come that seen that the war-responsibility discussion rises up...
Well, I can understand why X want to play in the Bird's Nest. I also understand Chinese Government why they don't want that to happen. Since to them it might feel like a slap in the face when in the biggest staduim in Beijing first a JAPANESE band is playing, when not even a Chinese band played there before.
For X, naturally, that is also a symbol to show their friendship. But still, this is not so easy.
Many people say Japan hasn't taken responsibility of what happened back then. However, this is not true in any way. But it's also clear that it is not as acknowleged as the Germans did (and IMO the American occupation plays a big role in that matter, as well.) and there are still lots of right wing organizations around who have another point of view.
Tricky and looooong story... but the Sino-Japanese relationship however is strained and it for sure takes more than a concert to solve their disagreements.
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Okay, yeah - say you're right. Let's all ban the Germans from playing concerts in our contries - afterall, it's understandable, right - they tried to take over the world and all. While we are at it, let's go and kick all the muslims out of our contries. Afterall, those few Jihadist's are sure causing one hell of a stirr.
It's not understandable, it's not understandable AT ALL
Nationalism is fucking stupid, people have NO RIGHT to associate the decisions of government to the people who are born in a specific nature. It's racism and it's wrong - if you think that the Chinese population have ANY right to feel upset at the fact that a group of post-war Japanese musicians want to play a concert in their national stadium on the grounds that they are Japanese you are an absolute moron and you don't deserve to have a say in the discussion.
Don't be so stupid.
What? Just because I have a different opinion than you, suddenly I'm a moron and is stripped of my rights to take part in this discussion? Wonder if anyone else will agree with that kind of logic.
If you were actually paying attention to my post, then you wouldn't have used Germany or Muslims as your examples. Stop spewing things like who has the right to think/do what when you're not even willing to listen.
Besides, if Japanese people in general have acknowledged what their country has done and think it's wrong, they could always have demostrations. Yet, demostrations of these kinds are few and small within the country.
I think you are the one to reconsider your stance on this. You make it sound very simple when it is not. I wonder, what do you propose the Asian governments should do to protest against Japan? Are you saying that they should just swallow the Japanese way of pretending like their atrocities in the past weren't all thaaat bad? There's a clear difference between your example and this situation since Germany took responsibility in a way which Japan chose not to. The fact remains that the Japanese government do not acknowledge undeniable proof. In fact, they even try to hide things from Japanese citizens. Sure, China aren't any angels when it comes to objectivity and absolute truth in their official books neither, but it doesn't matter as much because they are not the ones at fault here, and unless Japan changes their policy of semi-denial, it will remain so.
Couldn't have said it better.
Many people say Japan hasn't taken responsibility of what happened back then. However, this is not true in any way. But it's also clear that it is not as acknowleged as the Germans did (and IMO the American occupation plays a big role in that matter, as well.) and there are still lots of right wing organizations around who have another point of view.
If the Chinese government had actually publicized and acknowledge the contributions that Japan made, maybe, MAYBE, things wouldn't have be so bad. But I think what's really getting to the Chinese is because Japan isn't fully acknowledging what they've done.
Tricky and looooong story... but the Sino-Japanese relationship however is strained and it for sure takes more than a concert to solve their disagreements.
If one concert can solve everything, the world would be a muuuuuuuuch better place... but you gotta admit, it'll be pretty awesome if X Japan has the ability to resolve half a century of poltical conflict with just one concert.
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What? Just because I have a different opinion than you, suddenly I'm a moron and is stripped of my rights to take part in this discussion? Wonder if anyone else will agree with that kind of logic.
If you were actually paying attention to my post, then you wouldn't have used Germany or Muslims as your examples. Stop spewing things like who has the right to think/do what when you're not even willing to listen.
Besides, if Japanese people in general have acknowledged what their country has done and think it's wrong, they could always have demostrations. Yet, demostrations of these kinds are few and small within the country.
My examples are logically sound - they are equally as abstract as you expecting ordinary Japanese citizens to take the burden of their ancestor's crime. X Japan ARE NOT endorsing the crap that went on in World War 2, isn't that enough? Do you expect them to get on their knees and beg for forgiveness for sins they haven't actually committed? They just want to play a rock concert to their fans - fans who may have been waiting for the best part of 20 years to see this band play in their country.
I think you are the one to reconsider your stance on this. You make it sound very simple when it is not. I wonder, what do you propose the Asian governments should do to protest against Japan? Are you saying that they should just swallow the Japanese way of pretending like their atrocities in the past weren't all thaaat bad? There's a clear difference between your example and this situation since Germany took responsibility in a way which Japan chose not to. The fact remains that the Japanese government do not acknowledge undeniable proof. In fact, they even try to hide things from Japanese citizens. Sure, China aren't any angels when it comes to objectivity and absolute truth in their official books neither, but it doesn't matter as much because they are not the ones at fault here, and unless Japan changes their policy of semi-denial, it will remain so.
Though, I have to add that it isn't so easy for Japan to come clean. It's probably not so fun to make proper apologies to a dictatorship government that doesn't really care about their citizens' rights. I also suspect some Asian countries unfairly will give Japan a really hard time about it afterwards. There's no simple solution, but I do think the people of Asia deserve recognition.
It has nothing to do with racism, it's simply (Asian) politics. If there's any racism involved whatsoever, I can assure you it would be from the Japanese side. China is a multi-ethnic/multi-cultural country whilst Japan is pretty much homogeneous. Nationalism is however widespread on both sides. You should keep in mind that they are still allowed to perform in China, just not in what has become a national symbol of the country. That is the only reason to why this has become political.
You're missing the point. What does any of this have to do with X Japan? X Japan is a band, they play music - they don't stand for the Japanese political system or endorse the things that went on several generations ago. This has nothing to do with X Japan, other than the fact that the members are Japanese.
Yoshiki, Pata, Heath and Toshi have NO responsibility for what went on several generations ago nor do they stand for it. If the Chinese government wants to make them a political scape-goat on account of their nationality then they are doing so illegitamately and for reasons which are close to impeding on human rights.
China is one of the most powerful economic countries in the world, this makes them developed. What their government chooses to do with the money is their problem.
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Correct, X Japan is just a band, and if the Chinese government isn't willing to let them perform at Bird's Nest they should play at another venue.
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who has said that the chinese goverment has asked them not to play? it was a local office from beijing, not the government
This is still racism. Blind and ignorant nationalism like this shouldn't exist in the leaders of such a developed country like China - and it's very worrying that is still does.
free ireland
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Replace 'Government' with 'Beijing Culture office official', doesn't change that much what I was saying ;-)
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who has said that the chinese goverment has asked them not to play? it was a local office from beijing, not the government
Erm yeah, buddy - that's still a Government organisation.
free ireland
They've been free for a long time now. I guess that just like Gibraltar, they don't want people telling them what to do :p
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You're missing the point. What does any of this have to do with X Japan? X Japan is a band, they play music - they don't stand for the Japanese political system or endorse the things that went on several generations ago. This has nothing to do with X Japan, other than the fact that the members are Japanese.
Yoshiki, Pata, Heath and Toshi have NO responsibility for what went on several generations ago nor do they stand for it. If the Chinese government wants to make them a political scape-goat on account of their nationality then they are doing so illegitamately and for reasons which are close to impeding on human rights.
China is one of the most powerful economic countries in the world, this makes them developed. What their government chooses to do with the money is their problem.
Then please, Beauty/Broken, enlighten us. Tell us how China should deal with these issues WITHOUT unfairly affecting Japanese citizens in any way? Do you think China should target Japanese government officials? No, of course not. Every possible realistic action ultimately affects Japanese citizens in some way. So yes, sadly the people of a country has to pay the price for their government's actions/policies. That's just how things work, how do you reach out to a government without affecting their people? Japan has already showed that they aren't gonna do anything about the issue unless they have to.
Also, economical strength does not equal a developed country. China's whole economical strength relies on and is still built up on labour which has no other choice but to be exploited. Does that sound like a developed economy to you? China is still a developing country.
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Then please, Beauty/Broken, enlighten us. Tell us how China should deal with these issues WITHOUT unfairly affecting Japanese citizens in any way? Do you think China should target Japanese government officials? No, of course not. Every possible realistic action ultimately affects Japanese citizens in some way. So yes, sadly the people of a country has to pay the price for their government's actions/policies. That's just how things work, how do you reach out to a government without affecting their people? Japan has already showed that they aren't gonna do anything about the issue unless they have to.
Why does it matter?
What happened 60 years ago matters not in the world of today - we should be past that, looking for ways to move forward. Why should China need to harbour such a grudge against the Japanese civilians? Why do the ancestors of the Japanese war-time people have to pay the price for decisions made before they were even born? You're only seing things one dimensionally, you are making it sound like these are pressing issues that NEED to be resolved. How exactly are they going to be fixed? Are the Japanese citizens expected to grovell eternally at the feet of the Chinese? Do they want the Japanese to make a time machine and go back in time to fix the mistakes that made? This situation is extremely unreasonable and can constitute as nothing more than PETTY nationalism - and that makes me sick, if you can identify with it then go you, but to me this is nothing more than a petty grudge against a group of people who don't deserve such prejudice against their ethnicity.
All I can say is that whatever anger the Chinese have against the Japanese after all this time should not be directed at a group of non-political rock musicians. If you really think that refusing X Japan permission to play in the Beijing National Stadium is some sort of deep political statement and anything other than a crude piece of prejudice I really do doubt your capacity to even be involved in this debate.
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are any of you guys Chinese/ Japanese? Im just curious.
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Why does it matter?
What happened 60 years ago matters not in the world of today - we should be past that, looking for
ways to move forward. Why should China need to harbour such a grudge against the Japanese
civilians? Why do the ancestors of the Japanese war-time people have to pay the price for decisions
made before they were even born? You're only seing things one dimensionally, you are making it
sound like these are pressing issues that NEED to be resolved. How exactly are they going to be
fixed? Are the Japanese citizens expected to grovell eternally at the feet of the Chinese? Do they
want the Japanese to make a time machine and go back in time to fix the mistakes that made? This
situation is extremely unreasonable and can constitute as nothing more than PETTY nationalism - and
that makes me sick, if you can identify with it then go you, but to me this is nothing more than a
petty grudge against a group of people who don't deserve such prejudice against their ethnicity.
All I can say is that whatever anger the Chinese have against the Japanese after all this time
should not be directed at a group of non-political rock musicians. If you really think that
refusing X Japan permission to play in the Beijing National Stadium is some sort of deep political
statement and anything other than a crude piece of prejudice I really do doubt your capacity to
even be involved in this debate.
What price does X Japan have to pay because of their ancestors? Um, play at another venue IN China? Oh no, what a heavy price to pay! Shame on the Chinese! :P
And knock it off with the whole Japanese begging for forgiveness thing. No one's expecting them or asking them to, not even the Chinese.
Seriously, you're making this sound a lot worse than it actually is. No one is saying the Japanese deserves to be hated nor is anyone saying the Chinese should hate them. And you know what? You're making it sound like every single person in China hates the Japanese and it's giving X Japan such a hard time, which is not true.
First off, it doesn't matter whether a Japanese band or an American band wants to play in Bird's nest, ANY foreign bands can't play there YET because they want a Chinese artist to perform there first. If a Chinese artist had performed there already, there probably won't be this problem. And it's not like China's banning every single Japanese from performing within its state. X Japan is allowed to perform in China anytime and anywhere but Bird's nest because of he reason stated above. Heck, you're right, there's no deep political statement behind this whatsoever.
Second of all, why do you think X Japan even wants to perform in China? Because there's a fanbase in there that's big enough to be lucrative. I'm sure there a lot of people in China who likes Japanese idols, fashion, etc. and aren't the grudge-holding Japanese haters you're making them out to be. Heck, there are even some Japanese-(mainland)Chinese collaborations between artists that were well-recieved (note that the performance was performed in China). It's only a group of people within a huge population who are showing prejudice yet it sounds like to me you're associating the Chinese government's decision with its entire population (but didn't you just say people has no right to associate government decisions with a specific group of people?).
If X Japan really do love their fans in China, they should just play at another venue as the odds are against them in playing in Bird's nest.
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What happened 60 years ago matters not in the world of today - we should be past that, looking for ways to move forward. Why should China need to harbour such a grudge against the Japanese civilians? Why do the ancestors of the Japanese war-time people have to pay the price for decisions made before they were even born?
Sure, why don't you head over to South Korea and explain that to the old women who were raped continously for years in the Imperial Japanese Army brothels. You can find some of them protesting outside the Japanese embassy in Seoul every Wednesday. Keep in mind that they didn't receive proper recognition (or compensation for that matter).
You know, many victims - at least of those that didn't get killed during the imperial days - are still alive. From the victims that are dead, many of their children are alive. Also, many of the soldiers who committed these crimes are still alive. So really, how do we move on? Sir, that ball lies in the hands of the Japanese government. If Japan wants Asia to move on they should just recognize what truly happened for the good of all Asia. In order to learn from history we need to study it. Believe me when I say it surely works better than censorship or even denial.
You're only seing things one dimensionally, you are making it sound like these are pressing issues that NEED to be resolved. How exactly are they going to be fixed? Are the Japanese citizens expected to grovell eternally at the feet of the Chinese? Do they want the Japanese to make a time machine and go back in time to fix the mistakes that made? This situation is extremely unreasonable and can constitute as nothing more than PETTY nationalism - and that makes me sick, if you can identify with it then go you, but to me this is nothing more than a petty grudge against a group of people who don't deserve such prejudice against their ethnicity.
They ARE pressing issues that NEED to be resolved. This is a constantly returning topic in East Asian politics. Time machine? I think something more realistic would be - guess what? - truthful acknowledgement of the past.
I do not support China's actions. I don't like the methods of neither China nor Japan, but, I was hoping I could help you should gain an understanding to why it looks like it does. It's simply not fair to blame the Chinese like you do. You are very focused on what the Chinese government is doing wrong in this matter but you don't say anything about the Japanese one.
Why does it matter?
All I can say is that whatever anger the Chinese have against the Japanese after all this time should not be directed at a group of non-political rock musicians. If you really think that refusing X Japan permission to play in the Beijing National Stadium is some sort of deep political statement and anything other than a crude piece of prejudice I really do doubt your capacity to even be involved in this debate.
Deep political statement? Not really, it's quite a simple one. They do not want a Japanese band making the first music performance at Beijing National Stadium. Remember, what is Yoshiki's band's name? 'X Japan' making the first musical performance in 'Beijing National Stadium'. How can it not appear as symbolic to some? They still have the choice to perform somewhere else.
I also find it a bit annoying how you keep mentioning how I/we don't deserve to take place in this debate unless I/we share your opinion. Let me remind you of what you wrote in an earlier post:
if you think that the Chinese population have ANY right to feel upset at the fact that a group of post-war Japanese musicians want to play a concert in their national stadium on the grounds that they are Japanese you are an absolute moron and you don't deserve to have a say in the discussion.
Don't be so stupid.
The Chinese have (according to me) every right in the world to feel upset about such a fact. With free speech comes freedom of opinion. So, if I am a supporter of free speech, I am an absolute moron? What kind of an elitist are you?
are any of you guys Chinese/ Japanese? Im just curious.
No, I'm Swedish, both by nationality and ethnicity. I did however travel China, Japan and South Korea a few times.
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people seem to be overcomplicating the issues with personal opinions and large parading paragraphs, so I'll simply state the situation:
The People's Republic of China (Like all other communist nations) instill a certain degree of propaganda and nationalism into their citizens.
Being that the Bird's Nest is an iconic symbol of the "emergence of China onto the world stage" that was mainly financed by the Chinese Government it is most probable to conclude that the Bird's Nest will also be utilized to instill a degree of propaganda and nationalism into it's citizens.
The question the Chinese cultural office or whoever the fuck rents the damn stadium has to ask when considering the venue is infact (You guessed it): Will the act instill a degree of propaganda and nationalism into it's citizens?
I doubt this is a racism or political issue, china would be just as apathetic to a taiwanese band or even a north korean band as it is towards X. The simple fact is that the Bird's Nest probably won't be open to foreign acts for a long time. I would be very surprised if X ever preforms there.
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Makes sense. However, the quote "A Beijing Culture office official said that they will not allow any foreigner, in particular, any Japanese, to give the first musical performance of the venue." implied that it's even "worse" with Japanese people performing, hence our discussion.
I would also like to add that I do not agree with your opinion that it will be limited to propaganda for a long time. China is not the same China it was 20 years ago.
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Fair enough. Also, I agree with alex here; the Bird's Nest will probably be open to acts that have nothing to do with propaganda in the near future.
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MisterEN more or less said it. Will they be allowed to be the 2nd or 20th group to preform there, doesn't really matter. What matters is that they for sure can't be the first. And that's it.
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people seem to be overcomplicating the issues with personal opinions and large parading paragraphs, so I'll simply state the situation:
The People's Republic of China (Like all other communist nations) instill a certain degree of propaganda and nationalism into their citizens.
Being that the Bird's Nest is an iconic symbol of the "emergence of China onto the world stage" that was mainly financed by the Chinese Government it is most probable to conclude that the Bird's Nest will also be utilized to instill a degree of propaganda and nationalism into it's citizens.
The question the Chinese cultural office or whoever the fuck rents the damn stadium has to ask when considering the venue is infact (You guessed it): Will the act instill a degree of propaganda and nationalism into it's citizens?
I doubt this is a racism or political issue, china would be just as apathetic to a taiwanese band or even a north korean band as it is towards X. The simple fact is that the Bird's Nest probably won't be open to foreign acts for a long time. I would be very surprised if X ever preforms there.
Nationalism = Racism
Propaganda = Political Issue.
Your concluding paragraph basically agrees with every point you thus far have attempted to refute.
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people seem to be overcomplicating the issues with personal opinions and large parading paragraphs, so I'll simply state the situation:
The People's Republic of China (Like all other communist nations) instill a certain degree of propaganda and nationalism into their citizens.
Being that the Bird's Nest is an iconic symbol of the "emergence of China onto the world stage" that was mainly financed by the Chinese Government it is most probable to conclude that the Bird's Nest will also be utilized to instill a degree of propaganda and nationalism into it's citizens.
The question the Chinese cultural office or whoever the fuck rents the damn stadium has to ask when considering the venue is infact (You guessed it): Will the act instill a degree of propaganda and nationalism into it's citizens?
I doubt this is a racism or political issue, china would be just as apathetic to a taiwanese band or even a north korean band as it is towards X. The simple fact is that the Bird's Nest probably won't be open to foreign acts for a long time. I would be very surprised if X ever preforms there.
Nationalism = Racism
Propaganda = Political Issue.
Your concluding paragraph basically agrees with every point you thus far have attempted to refute.
Nationalism isn't quite the same as racism and I think MisterEN meant political issue as in political issue between China and Japan strictly.
Anyway, if you wish to continue discussing about racism and Asian politics, I suggest you make a separate thread in Offtopic as I'm sure there would be a lot of people interested in taking part of the discussion.
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LOL dude there's someone seriously cursing this world tour, i'm telling you
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MAN THAT SUCKS AFTER THE OLYMPICS A GOT A LITTLE RESPECT FOR THEM CAUSE MAN THAT WAS AN AWSOME OLYMPICS BUT THAT HAS BEEN BLOWN AWAY BY THIS HOW STUPID JUST PLAIN RETARTED
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well I'm chinese and simply put, you'd be too naive to think it's ok to let them be the first group to hold a concert at the bird's nest. yes i'm sure it's political issue but motst importantly, the chinese authority would prefer to let a chinese singer to do that as it's natural to think so since it's now an iconic stadium.
on the other hand, the bird nest is too huge and it's not exactly an ideal venue for concert. Getting there is a bit of pain as well. moreover the tickets are gonna be pricy as i read they charge over HKD5 million (about USD600K) a day so no singer dares doing a show there yet. seriously i'd prefer going to Tokyo Dome later when they start the tour in Japan rather than going to Beijing to watch a show which I'd probably spend most of the time looking at the giant screen than them in person.
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I'm getting sick of politic ...
first, thailand = because of the 'political situation' there, the X JAPAN concert in Bangkok is postponed
now, China = just because something that happened many years ago, X JAPAN concert in China might be canceled
politic suck's Xp
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It's Yoshiki who's too stubborn to have the concert elsewhere. If holly.x says already that the Birds nest isn't that good for a musical venue, then I don't think it would be a catastrophe if X would preform elsewhere.
Besides, politics are politics. You can't get around them. I'm pretty sure also, that if the Birds nest would be in Tokyo, there would be no chance of a Chinese band being first to preform there.
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i don't get it so if you don't want any foreigners to be the 1st to play lower the price so a Chinese band can play there.then raise the price again yoshiki doesn't care about price if he wants to play there hes gonna play there eventually. its a shame there's a lot about the Chinese govt. that is just bull. like controlling what bands can say in there songs. so think about it if they do that to there own bands what they would try to do if X played there. probably tell them they cant play anything to heavy cause its not allowed
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Well Wearex316 the crux is in fact more complex than just that. Yes the chinese authority do have controls of certain things, but you have mixed up what they allow the performers do in China rather than whether they allow a Japan band to be the first performer to play in the bird's nest. What the latter is not only political issue. Its a historic problem. Like hypno mentioned earlier,it would have been the same if the same scenario was to happen in Japan and especially South Korea. There are still issues and conflicts these days and things could all of a sudden
become very sensitive if anything goes wrong. Japan industries have been doing it
for ages, the Koreans did not allow a thing regarding Japan entering Korea in the 80s and
they actually still do since you dont notice much japanese stuff in Korea although the policy is now different and they are more open minded. I'd say the Chinese
are being mild in the case since my first thought of this was "what was Yoshiki thinking???"
and i immediately knew it would be difficult.
I could blame the japanese for never really willing to pledge for forgiveness for what they have done the same way some blame the chinese authority for being narrow-minded cos it's many years ago. my grandad almost got beheaded by a soldier, but he got lucky and barely survived - with a massive scar on the back of his neck.
Sorry hypno that's all of my political shite. I'd rather write a report if I could after their 1st concert ;D
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actually this doesn't surprise me because in spain they still ban bands for their lyrics, when they just criticize the goverment. here they even arrest the members XD
so yeah, it happens everywhere
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actually this doesn't surprise me because in spain they still ban bands for their lyrics, when they just criticize the goverment. here they even arrest the members XD
so yeah, it happens everywhere
In Spain? I find that hard to believe. Is there anywhere I can read about that?
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don't have here the news for the arrest, i think it was last year, but i found some news for trials and concerts canceled due to the goverment
http://actualidad.terra.es/nacional/articulo/aguirre-soziedad-alkoholica-2932746.htm
http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/437768/0/concierto/sa/leganes/
http://www.freemuse.org/sw15505.asp
http://www.freemuse.org/sw4643.asp -> this is english
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@holly.X
is in China they have a place like Tokyo Dome? I mean a (really)good venue for a music show, since you've said that The Bird Nest isn't good enough for being a venue of a musical concert ...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indoor_arenas_in_China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indoor_arenas_in_China)- Might help
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Whoa,thanX hypno ... I'll check about it later :P
but I still want holly.X opinion about it since he/she is a chinese ... he/she know more about it I think :)
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I believe they are now considering doing the concert in Shanghai if the request is not approved. Bird's Nest itself is indeed an impressive stadium, but other than the sheer size of it, I'd suggest him find an indoor stadium for the sake of the spectators as that might be the one and only show they could ever do in China (except HK). The reason I mentioned the problem of the sound is simple. You got a massive stadium where it's almost 300M across, it's a nightmare to get the sound right expecially for a rock concert. Some artists had already stated about the concern of sounds for concerts so it's natural from their point of view. oh btw, did you watch the Olympic closing ceremony? Leona Lewis sang live and the sound was pretty shite to be honest. You dont want an X song to get such crappy sound, do you? and to think of someone as particular as Yoshiki....you'd never know what's going to happen... ;D
I have not been to many stadiums in China, but apart from those that were newly built becos of Olympics, many are pretty old and worn down. some stadiums that had been renewed might not be the picks of Yoshiki becos of the location, ie Guangzhou have a few new ones but I knew some fans have come to HK to buy the concert tickets taking an overnight train so it's pointless to consider that location. Shanghai arena is pretty old if you compare to the Asia World Expo in HK as the use is different. I had known that Asia World Expo being the only qualified venue as some are too small and the HK collesium has shite sound and it's now being newed.
In fact more than anything else, I believe Yoshiki being a proud man as he is, it's easy to understand why he wants to do a concert at the bird's nest. We just have to wait and see if the managing company in HK (own by a pretty reputable manager of many artists) could make Yo's dream come true.
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don't have here the news for the arrest, i think it was last year, but i found some news for trials and concerts canceled due to the goverment
http://actualidad.terra.es/nacional/articulo/aguirre-soziedad-alkoholica-2932746.htm
http://www.20minutos.es/noticia/437768/0/concierto/sa/leganes/
http://www.freemuse.org/sw15505.asp
http://www.freemuse.org/sw4643.asp -> this is english
Woa... I couldn't imagine such things going on in Spain. Thanks for the information.
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Maybe, just maybe this is the real reason... I just read a news about the Bird's Nest falling into a state of disuse. They probably have difficulties funding the maintenance alone seeing they don't get much event offers... how odd. They only have one event and it's scheduled for August.
Source:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h_S-JCc7OmvOhJ0bVECCXYoiugnAD961GKKG0
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That must be pretty embarassing for the Chinese government.
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I must say this at least twice a day, but nontheless... LOL CHINA
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at least they can earn some money if X allowed to play there