X Freaks Forum
The band => General chat => Topic started by: Lucs on March 31, 2008, 06:44:30 PM
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Ok, we finally heard Without You by X Japan !
What do you all think about it ? Did you like it ?
In my opinion, it's a very beautiful song. When I listened to the classical version, I imagined the "chorus" just like that.
I'm really looking forward to hear a studio version !
Edit : maybe I should've posted that in the section "Albums / Single" but as it's not on any album nor single, I posted it here. Feel free to move it if neede.
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I thought it was really nice, i found that it wasn't as catchy as the other x ballads, i think that makes it seem more honest. i really hope that the studio verson is done well, and that it won't be over-produced, it's siplicity is what i found really touching about this song
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Like the song ... well, that's all I have to say :wink: for the moment.
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Did you read English lyrics? O_O
;_;
Beautiful!
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I really liked it!
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I just hope they add Pata's guitar and Heath bass, like the rock version recorded in 2003.
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I just hope they add Pata's guitar and Heath bass, like the rock version recorded in 2003.
What ? I've never heard of such a version ! Could you give some details ?
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I really like it, but it's not their best ballad in terms of composition.
Yes, it's more about feelings and emotions than composition. But it makes it special. :) I like it a lot.
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It's really a great song. With or without lyrics. They are very beautiful and suit it very well. I guess Yoshiki has managed to write another beautiful and touching ballad.
I sooo want a single now.
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Yup I can only echo what has already been said, wonderful stuff, hopefully it will get a iTunes release at some point in the near future. Some emotional stuff :cry:
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I only got to hear this once due to download issues. It was very special, I can't wait to hear it again. I guess a live version of it can't be posted because of legal reasons now can it.. :(
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I loved it, it really touched me and I even cried when I first heard them play it
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I just hope they add Pata's guitar and Heath bass, like the rock version recorded in 2003.
What ? I've never heard of such a version ! Could you give some details ?
Watch this from 4.56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jvyFMhlIys
In my opinion the song will sound even better like this, with the classic
X ballad rock theme :)
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It wasn't the best ballad, compared to the others,
but I still loved it.
I cried when I first heard it. T_T
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Not their best ballad...but really emotional...when you know who the lyrics are written for it's so beautiful and painful too :cry:
In the whole a very cool song, a new X Japan song...a song we were waiting to for a long time
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It's beautiful. And, just like someone said, it's the song that brought Yoshiki and Toshi back together. Just by itself, it holds an immense meaning.
Where can I find the english lyrics, by the way?
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It's beautiful. And, just like someone said, it's the song that brought Yoshiki and Toshi back together. Just by itself, it holds an immense meaning.
Where can I find the english lyrics, by the way?
Not the best translation, but here is a youtube video of 'Without You' with a translation:
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=iDXnd-hb6Cg&fmt=18
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The lyrics is very sad. Really sad since it reminds me of those things back then. In terms of melody, I love the instrumental ver more. Cuz it's just.. too short.. for their song.. especially this.. the important one. I hope the final ver will be longer.
But still tho, it is good and very emotional.
I just hope they add Pata's guitar and Heath bass, like the rock version recorded in 2003.
Which one is this? Never heard of without you rock ver.==>any other source i can listen to this one besides above youtube link?
It's beautiful. And, just like someone said, it's the song that brought Yoshiki and Toshi back together. Just by itself, it holds an immense meaning.
Other words, thanks to hide for this.
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Why is everyone crying. It was performed very tastefully and I was smiling/laughing when I saw the clips of hide jumping being silly around on the monitors in the venue. But then I heard people all around me who started crying and it was just embarassing.
My favourite example was this Korean girl I had a seat next to during the 2nd concert. She looked like she hated the concert, she didn't move her body at all and just stood and looked at them while they performed. I tried to talk with her at one point and she pretty much ignored me. Later, when they played Without You, she started crying. I almost started laughing at her, do people come to this concert to mourn or to enjoy?
But well, maybe I just don't understand.
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Without You is sad. Although X Japan members didn't cry, I know because they didn't want this reunion concert to be sad. If they cried --> most fans would cry too. The reaction Yoshiki did when Toshi gave him mic (Destruction Night), was soo cute, but I feel that he was actually hiding and pressing his feeling. It's like he WAS sad but he DIDN'T WANT to cry. He gave us faint smiles instead.
Perhaps that Korean girl really absorbed the fact of her being there and watched X Japan that was just like... a dream.
Blah.. ppl have different way in expressing themselves.
You wouldn't know if she was actually very excited and the next moment she cried.
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The reaction Yoshiki did when Toshi gave him mic (Destruction Night), was soo cute, but I feel that he was actually hiding and pressing his feeling. It's like he WAS sad but he DIDN'T WANT to cry. He gave us faint smiles instead.
I think he'll cry if he starts talking.
The videos were sad (the hide jumpings and stuff) because you know that he won't be there to do those jumpings again. And hearing Toshi's voice... And that piano...
All of this bring tears to my eyes. =(
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I was smiling through tears.
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I was smiling through tears.
I suppose that's the feeling of this song. Yoshiki said it, himself, somewhere. If I'm correct, he once said it was a sad song, it held a lot of memories and missing... yet it expressed a great will to live, to make your life go on through it all.
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he'll cry if he starts talking.
that's exactly my point. He would be quiet for the next 2 mins and started crying. and he didn't want that to happen.
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I post this here, instead of making a new thread.
Out of curiousity, is there any interviews or written proof stating that Without You is made by Yoshiki for hide?
Because, I find some differences between Without You lyrics from Eternal Melody II and Without You (live) at concerts.
Thus, makes me think that Without You was originally written for Toshi.
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I post this here, instead of making a new thread.
Out of curiousity, is there any interviews or written proof stating that Without You is made by Yoshiki for hide?
Because, I find some differences between Without You lyrics from Eternal Melody II and Without You (live) at concerts.
Thus, makes me think that Without You was originally written for Toshi.
grr
Without You from EMII was written as a song of mourning for hide. Yoshiki himself has said this. . . there's NO evidence Without You was written for Toshi.
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This isn't aimed at anyone, but this question has generated flamewars before, so I just would like to say, keep it cool people, no need to get aggressive.
As for whom it was written for...
I believe the song is about Toshi, but it is written in memory of hide.
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@Miscast,
No, there's of course no evidence of it's written for Toshi. Therefore I asked, is there any proof stating that Yoshiki himself said this was for hide?
@Kihl, I'm kinda aware that this topic is very sensitive and very much possibly to generate flames, therefore I didn't post a new thread. I didn't know that this topic had been discussed before. Mind to direct me to the page? PM me the link?
I'm just curious about whether there's somewhere Yoshiki mentioned about this being for hide.
Previously, I have no way of having a thought that this isn't for hide. But after I compared those two lyrics, as well as with the translations, I took my own conclusion, which, it's my own opinion, it was originally written for Toshi.
For the one in the concerts, Yoshiki cut off some parts of the lyrics that indicates / more indicating the-toshi-like-directed ones. Plus the background of the screen in the concert was full hide. So I believe, the one sung by Toshi or the X Japan version of Without You is dedicated for hide.
And yeah, calm down for those who are about to get angry. This isn't meant to disgrace anyone.
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I scoured through the topics trying to find it, but couldn't, but I did remember some forumers were not very friendly in their discussions, thus my preemptiveness. :/
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Nvm, i just found the link here. It's at Yoshiki and Toshi discussion.
http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
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Nvm, i just found the link here. It's at Yoshiki and Toshi discussion.
http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25
That's not even it. The real thread about Without You from this August was deleted. However, as the evidence at that time (as Babak stated) was quite undisputable, I see no point discussing it anymore. :)
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What the, somebody deleted my post? Confused
Why? I answered the question about who it was for, didn't I? Confused
Weird, yeah. I noticed too. :shock:
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So, as what I read from Babak's deleted post, someone actually sent a message to Yoshiki and he got the answer YES, that's for Toshi?
why the previous thread was deleted? o.O
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No, someone asked if it was written to hide, and Yoshiki said yes.
I heard a song created by my friend at the world best studio.
We had a common friend who died almost 10 years ago, and the song came out of the sorrow, heartache and despair from the experience.
He said he made it at one sitting a few days after the friend's death.
:wink:
~Toshi
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why the previous thread was deleted? o.O
because we've gotten a rule that allows censoring.
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Thanks guys for answering my questions.
After gathering some infos here and there, I have my own conclusion, (I know I will be debated so hard), that it originaly was for Toshi or about Toshi despite that indisputable evidence that Anna was talking about.
My main "evidence" is.. the cut off parts for the live version which are exactly the parts where it's "obviously" indicated Toshi. Why would it be cut off? if for shorten the song, why are they exactly 'those' parts? ..... Because the live version was for hide, so it's purposely edited that way.
*again, my own opinion and conclusion*
But anyway, as previously mentioned by others, we better close this discussion, cuz it goes to personal opinion at the end, that will lead to never-end full rage discussion. :roll:
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Great ballad, among my favourites (Unfinished still takes the cake)! I also like the 16 min. classical ver. a lot, it has structure...
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Edit: Oh nevermind, I remember where this comes from. I'll edit this properly when I get home, lulz will be ensued.
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I'm curious, with "cut-off" parts, are you talking about EMII english lyrics? Could you please quote which parts of the lyrics you think are intended for Toshi? It's pretty interesting.
you could see them at the other topic here (http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25).
there was a war going back there if you don't mind. :roll:
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http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_yoshikilong.htm
Y: No, it stopped everything, it means that time I stooped all my works about music.
S: Stopped all works about music?
Y: Because I didn't know what to do, I was all blinded, so that time I didn't want to have interviewed, didn't want to play music for whoever. The only thing I could do is... to produce, that time I couldn't even write my own songs, the only one song I could do is... the song for hide... ar... do you want to listen a bit?
S: Sure I do.
Y: Ok, we'll go back to the studio.
By that words... we had to go back to the studio again, Yoshiki sat down in front of PA and set DAT and saying "The name of this song is Without you" Then the beautiful ballad melodies were poured out from the large megaphone. This song is for hide's death, every notes and words were passed on his whole feeling. As if each note pray for hide to heaven. This song is really different of Violet UK... his new solo unit but strange in similar to X Japan's, if the vocal not be Toshi anymore... everyone will believed that this is new song of X. After we had listened for 6 minutes the vocal in last words was vanished while a light sound from Yoshiki, "In fact I want Toshi to sing this song...", although that studio was covered of dark but... I could saw clearly that around Yoshiki's eye have some tears...
This is beautiful. After reading the whole thread, only like 2 users, specially PN, were insisting on it being for Toshi and not for hide. One of the arguments that sustained the drama was that Yoshiki never said that the song was for hide before being implied by an interviewer if it was for hide.
In this interview, Yoshiki takes the initiative to talk about the song. In fact I don't remember an interview that mentions Without You before.
Now, before anyone asks for original japanese script, it's from a Shoxx magazine issue from 2000, search it yourself, if you're in Japan. Taking credit away from this source is ridiculous, doubting the translation is ridiculous, context is enough to make it clear. They were taking about hide and Yoshiki says "oh, I wrote this song for hide, wanna hear?". There.
About the argument of "we were born at the same time, pursued the same dream" thing, time is a very vast concept. The same time can be the same decade, the same age, era, whatever. Also hide shared the dream of music.
Of course, it's only natural for Without You to hold certain feeling like it was meant for Toshi, since he was also away from Yoshiki at the time, and Yoshiki might have also projected some feelings about Toshi, maybe Yoshiki himself hasn't it clear in his mind. But here you just got evidence, from Yoshiki's words, saying he wrote the song for hide. Textually.
What is it now? baww, the interviewed pressured him to speak about hide and Yoshiki had to say it was for hide? or is it people projecting their fantasies on wanting it to be for hide? Meh, say what you want, all evidence says it's for hide. None evidence (ambiguous song lines ain't evidence) says it's for Toshi.
However, I do agree that the song may have some of Yoshiki's feelings for Toshi. But I see it more like Yoshiki wanting Toshi to speak for him. After all, it would be silly from Yoshiki wanting Toshi to sing a song for... himself.
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However, as the evidence at that time (as Babak stated) was quite undisputable, I see no point discussing it anymore. :)
As I now too have been made aware of this evidence I say the same.
Sadly, it cannot be presented here because of the censorship going on at the boards.
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http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_yoshikilong.htm
The same time can be the same decade, the same age, era, whatever. Also hide shared the dream of music.
Yes my thoughts exactly, I wrote it in my myspace blog too.
Anyway thanks for sharing the interview! :D
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After all, it would be silly from Yoshiki wanting Toshi to sing a song for... himself.
Heheh, indeed.
Great post by the way, thanks for sharing that interview.
About the argument of "we were born at the same time, pursued the same dream" thing, time is a very vast concept. The same time can be the same decade, the same age, era, whatever. Also hide shared the dream of music.
Yeah, I also don't see "we were born at the same time, pursued the same dream" as being any kind of "proof" of it being for Toshi at all. Frankly, the same could be said of Yoshiki and Pata. :P
Well, anyway. Between the material in Babak's deleted post, this interview, etc., etc., I think it's quite clear that it's for hide.
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Hmm.. interesting. Thanks for the post blues. It kinda changed my perspective.
Since Yoshiki said that way, the song is for hide.
I'm not in hide's or toshi's side, but, there's something bothering me, which is... those parts that were cut for the live version. I mean, why would they eliminate them and exactly them?
Maybe, except if that explains Yoshiki wrote some parts of the lyrics especially those ones by thinking of Toshi (as lots of things happened and his feelings to Toshi and hide were mixed) and he realized they just didn't really suit the whole context. Or although it's intentionally for hide, it held a 'message' for Toshi before their friendship returned.
In your deleted post, you mentioned that a male and female singers sang the song as a demo, did they sing the full lyrics (EMII version) or something else?
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I just read the first site of the other thread and the "noo, it can't be hide! he was born one year earlier!"-argument made me laugh so hard XDDD As if Yoshikis lyrics had to be taken THAT concrete ... it are lyrics ... for a song ... and words don't always mean what they actually say. XD (In german i'd know how to say this right ... :/). Deeper meaning anyone?
"We were born at the same time" has a kind of ... romantic tone in my ears- It could mean so many things. And I would be very surpsrised, if it was just about something that trivial like a ... birth date.
XD
So ... and about the whole discussion ... I always thought it's for hide. Because I also read that interview radicalblues quoted ...
So I never really tried figuring out with the help of the lyrics for whom it could be ... since it seemed obvious to me.
But I also think it's possible (or even very likely), that Yoshikis feelings for Toshi also flew into the songtext ... purposely or not. e,e
Yeah ... But I can't even see, why people argue that much about it xD; Anyone can believe what he wants and in the end it's Yoshiki who knows the truth. XD
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XDDD As if Yoshikis lyrics had to be taken THAT concrete ... it are lyrics ... for a song ... and words don't always mean what they actually say. XD (In german i'd know how to say this right ... :/). Deeper meaning anyone?
Then go and listen to the lyrics of other songs again and think about what you said here >.> Sorry, but i think if you take it that way, you got it totally wrong.
Yoshiki's songs tell more than thousand words - that's by the way something Toshi personally said some time back.
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... and words don't always mean what they actually say.
Tell that those fundamentalistic religious people. :P
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Yoshiki's songs tell more than thousand words - that's by the way something Toshi personally said some time back.
Well, isn't that what Maya implied? :?
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Yoshiki's songs tell more than thousand words - that's by the way something Toshi personally said some time back.
Well, isn't that what Maya implied? :?
Then I woulnd't understand why above all the most obvious meaning shouldn't mean what it says :?
Never mind, I don't want to discuss about 'Without You' in particular and for whom it is written. :P
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Then I woulnd't understand why above all the most obvious meaning shouldn't mean what it says
Because of endless possibilites, limited only by Yoshiki's mind.
Or whatever. :P
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Being born at the same time can mean a decade.... it's a time... time... flowing... time... eternal... continual...
And... have you heard about metaphors? :D
I never even thought the song could be for someone else than hide. O.o So I really don't get the need to discuss it... x_x;
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Then I woulnd't understand why above all the most obvious meaning shouldn't mean what it says
Because of endless possibilites, limited only by Yoshiki's mind.
Or whatever. :P
:P Second that.
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I never even thought the song could be for someone else than hide. O.o
Same here. O.o I was kinda confused and shocked when I saw that someone said it was for Toshi.
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Then go and listen to the lyrics of other songs again and think about what you said here >.> Sorry, but i think if you take it that way, you got it totally wrong.
Yoshiki's songs tell more than thousand words - that's by the way something Toshi personally said some time back.
o.o; Euh ... Anna is right, I was just trying to say exactly THIS.
And I also just tried to express I don't think that the most obvious meaning is always the right ... this is too simple imo. (That's why I said "deeper meaning" XD) I'm just referring to this single line anyway xD; the "we were born at the same time". I just don't believe it means a birth date (/year), but something more extensive and less obvious. If you now think i don't get the lyrics at all ... well, fine. ee;
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First,
http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_uvbreak.htm
Y: Then I went back to LA and made a song for hide.
K: Dedicate to hide?
Y: Yes. It is called "Without You". It's like "Endless Rain", "Say Anything", "Forever Love". I was really depressed after I made that song. I couldn't have made the song for myself after that. I tend to think about X or about myself or hide when I make my own song. Then I prefer the produce work for other artists to the work for myself. I could think only other artists when I produced them.
K: I see.
Translation by Yumiko from Endless Dream, from Ultra Veat magazine, for the skeptics.
About the demo versions of Without You: That I know of, there are at least two of them, and both are not available to public.
One is from the interview on previous page, which doesn't specify if it has a female or male vocal, but I think it's one with a female vocal I also read somewhere else... I can't find the interview now, maybe I haven't even uploaded it, I'll try to confirm it, sorry. Another one is known by all, Toshi first heard Without You recorded with a temporal male vocal.
About the omitted lines from Tokyo Domes: it could be many things, maybe just for live version, maybe Yoshiki did felt they didn't fit. But...
Even though I can't see you anymore
Your memory will live in my heart
Forever
As well as love does
So I won't say... Good bye
How is that not for hide? It does hold some resemblance with Yoshiki's and Toshi's distancement, but that's taking things out of context. What you can't see is a dead friend, but even though, through love, you never say good bye to them. Anyone who has beloved ones in the otherworld can understand that.
And, well, that's it. I'll try to find the source talking about Without You with a female vocal, the website is a mess right now since we're in the middle of a well needed redesign and hopefully a full english version after.
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radicalblues, marry me? <3
Sorry, we're already engaged TOT
I honestly can't understand what's the big fuss about this, he said it was for hide, LITERALLY, period.
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That's why I said "deeper meaning" XD) I'm just referring to this single line anyway xD; the "we were born at the same time". I just don't believe it means a birth date (/year), but something more extensive and less obvious. If you now think i don't get the lyrics at all ... well, fine. ee;
Well, I just can't figure then what the 'deeper meaning' should be in this case - so that it has NOTHING to do anymore with being born (to me that word simply can be the same place, the same time, the same situation, the same interests, whatever... but it still keeps it's original meaning)
@ radical pan: who makes a fuss? till now I only can see people who have the opinion it's for hide writing 'period' (fitting word) it is for hide.
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@ radical pan: who makes a fuss? till now I only can see people who have the opinion it's for hide writing 'period' (fitting word) it is for hide.
What do you want me to do then? write to SHOXX, UV or whatever, and flame them for putting "fake words" as it were Yoshiki's? seriously :roll:
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Yeah ... But I can't even see, why people argue that much about it xD; Anyone can believe what he wants and in the end it's Yoshiki who knows the truth. XD
Totally agree with this, well said.
I think it's extremely obvious that all evidence points to it being about hide, though ultimately I don't really care, and people are welcome to think what they want-- as you said, only Yoshiki really knows. That said, I think Yoshiki's made his thoughts on it very clear. He said (multiples times) that it was for hide. But if someone doesn't want to believe Yoshiki's own words-- well, whatever. That's their business, I suppose.
The part that doesn't make sense to me is why some people are so militant in insisting that it was for Toshi.
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What do you want me to do then? write to SHOXX, UV or whatever, and flame them for putting "fake words" as it were Yoshiki's? seriously :roll:
Huh? Doing what for what reason? I haven't said anything that things you said were wrong. If you think I did, well, that's then up to you
The part that doesn't make sense to me is why some people are so militant in insisting that it was for Toshi.
And the part what makes even less sense to me is why people are digging again and again in the past about others who once have said it was written for Toshi such as if it has happened yesterday. And as if there's an unwritten law anywhere which says it's forbidden to have own thoughts about that case. such as people who don't agree 100% are morons, idiots, blind, or fundamentalistic religious
You personally said Yoshiki alone knows the truth, so I think you have to live with other opinions, as well
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And as if there's an unwritten law anywhere which says it's forbidden to have own thoughts about that case.
There isn't, but you see, people get frustrated when there are facts and people of the opposite opinion just brush them off as non valid "there is no proof he wrote it for hide" yeah, and there's no proof he wrote it for Toshi, except Yoshiki's statements which imply that it was written for the first.
And I'm flattered you quoted me.
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And as if there's an unwritten law anywhere which says it's forbidden to have own thoughts about that case.
There isn't, but you see, people get frustrated when there are facts and people of the opposite opinion just brush them off as non valid "there is no proof he wrote it for hide" yeah, and there's no proof he wrote it for Toshi, except Yoshiki's statements which imply that it was written for the first.
I also can see that I get frustrated to read the forthgoing bitching about that case. Honestly, (and I know there will be people who I'll frustrate with that) I STILL don't agree with it. I know what was written in several mags, and said on several occassions. (so there's no reason to point at it now again, I'm not blind) But I personally still have reasons to think another version also may be right - just for the record - i don't say it IS the truth, but your version won't fit with the picture how I see the situation.
And I'm flattered you quoted me.
Well, you appealed me to do so :P
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Well, I just can't figure then what the 'deeper meaning' should be in this case - so that it has NOTHING to do anymore with being born (to me that word simply can be the same place, the same time, the same situation, the same interests, whatever... but it still keeps it's original meaning)
Ok, you got me a bit wrong here XD; Of course it Is about birth ... I was just wondering about the people's conclusion that "the same time" has the meaning of "were born in the same year.". That's what I was talking about xD; Of course born is born. xD; ok?
And what Hollywood meant with the militant "it was for toshi!"-people ... i guess it was about the ones who said phrases like "NO, you're wrong, It IS for Toshi!!!!" ... to present your opinion as a fact can be annoying for others. NOT that you have an own opinion, just the way you express it. (you = man (german). xD)
Right Hollywood? XD;
Maya
Peace.
XD
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I also can see that I get frustrated to read the forthgoing bitching about that case.
I don't think anybody's bitching - the debate has been rather civil this time. Though I understand that different opinion may sound unpleasant sometimes.
And as Maya and Hollywood said, the militant ones who openly show total disrespect for other people's opinions aren't really those who are pro-hide (if I may call it like that :P ).
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And as if there's an unwritten law anywhere which says it's forbidden to have own thoughts about that case. such as people who don't agree 100% are morons, idiots, blind, or fundamentalistic religious
I don't know where you got the impression that I said you're forbidden from having your own thoughts. Quite the opposite, in fact. This is what I said in the post directly above yours (applicable parts highlighted):
I think it's extremely obvious that all evidence points to it being about hide, though ultimately I don't really care, and people are welcome to think what they want-- as you said, only Yoshiki really knows. That said, I think Yoshiki's made his thoughts on it very clear. He said (multiples times) that it was for hide. But if someone doesn't want to believe Yoshiki's own words-- well, whatever. That's their business, I suppose.
i guess it was about the ones who said phrases like "NO, you're wrong, It IS for Toshi!!!!" ... to present your opinion as a fact can be annoying for others. NOT that you have an own opinion, just the way you express it. (you = man (german). xD)
Right Hollywood? XD;
Exactly so. :)
Though as ferret said, it does become quite frustrating when solid proof from Yoshiki himself continues to be presented and then dismissed by the "it was for Toshi" people for (seemingly) no fact-based reason. If there are some facts that back up the Toshi argument, I'd be very interested in seeing them. And I don't mean that as a challenge, by the way-- honestly, if there's some kind of evidence of it being for Toshi, I'd like to have a chance to see that too.
Well, as I've said: everyone is welcome to their opinion. But for me personally, when Yoshiki himself says "I wrote this for hide"... I see no reason why I should believe otherwise.
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I also can see that I get frustrated to read the forthgoing bitching about that case.
I don't think anybody's bitching - the debate has been rather civil this time. Though I understand that different opinion may sound unpleasant sometimes.
And as Maya and Hollywood said, the militant ones who openly show total disrespect for other people's opinions aren't really those who are pro-hide (if I may call it like that :P ).
Well, there are people around who go on making fun of this and sorry, that's nothing I'd call 'respectful'.
I'd suggest to let it rest, because going forth with that would cause much more discrepancy than already exist. And I won't write nice comments anymore personally IF I'd feel attacked with a comment of someone. There's a nice saying in German: The way it sounds into the wood, it'll come back. (which means kinda: Don't expect any nice/respectful reaction when you don't treat others respectful)
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Don't expect any nice/respectful reaction when you don't treat others respectful.
Yeah, but EXACTLY!
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I also can see that I get frustrated to read the forthgoing bitching about that case.
I don't think anybody's bitching - the debate has been rather civil this time. Though I understand that different opinion may sound unpleasant sometimes.
And as Maya and Hollywood said, the militant ones who openly show total disrespect for other people's opinions aren't really those who are pro-hide (if I may call it like that :P ).
Well, there are people around who go on making fun of this and sorry, that's nothing I'd call 'respectful'.
I'd suggest to let it rest, because going forth with that would cause much more discrepancy than already exist. And I won't write nice comments anymore personally IF I'd feel attacked with a comment of someone. There's a nice saying in German: The way it sounds into the wood, it'll come back. (which means kinda: Don't expect any nice/respectful reaction when you don't treat others respectful)
Exactly so. Smile
Though as ferret said, it does become quite frustrating when solid proof from Yoshiki himself continues to be presented and then dismissed by the "it was for Toshi" people for (seemingly) no fact-based reason. If there are some facts that back up the Toshi argument, I'd be very interested in seeing them. And I don't mean that as a challenge, by the way-- honestly, if there's some kind of evidence of it being for Toshi, I'd like to have a chance to see that too.
Well, as I've said: everyone is welcome to their opinion. But for me personally, when Yoshiki himself says "I wrote this for hide"... I see no reason why I should believe otherwise.
That's the point. Naturally, there ARE reasons why I.E. I personally think there can be another interpretation. Tho, sorry, I won't reveal this point in public since there are some thoughts in it I don't want to share publicly, which would naturally make a further discussion useless. That I do understand and that also makes me a bit helpless to state my point of view publicly.
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Well, I'm going to take it that its for hide and enjoy it as such :D
because it obviously is lol
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@blues, thanks for the info. =)
I would say that the song was written for hide but it's ambiguous: it had messages for Toshi, that's becoming some reasons of the different version between EMII which was printed in the booklet in year 2005 (before reunion) and live version 2008 (after reunion -- both band and friendship reunions). It's not that surprising if it was made that way, for example, another case I.V. as the song title holds more than 2 meanings.
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EDIT:
About the omitted lines from Tokyo Domes: it could be many things, maybe just for live version, maybe Yoshiki did felt they didn't fit. But...
Nah, I don't think so. He wrote the song since.. hmm 1998 and at 2005 it's formally published as well as with the lyrics (EMII). If he just simply felt it didn't suit the song, it wouldn't need 7 years or more to realize that.
There must be some reasons, a deeper reason for that.
If the demo song was sung before 2007 (before Dec 2006) and the lyrics was the full one, that makes the question even bigger, however if the demo one was already cut before then (before he got acquainted with Toshi again to be precised), then I would think differently.
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And...
That's the point. Naturally, there ARE reasons why I.E. I personally think there can be another interpretation. Tho, sorry, I won't reveal this point in public since there are some thoughts in it I don't want to share publicly, which would naturally make a further discussion useless. That I do understand and that also makes me a bit helpless to state my point of view publicly.
And just like Mav said, some other reasons from my own interpretation that I won't talk further here, as the discussion already becomes 'warmer' and going endless.
I'd suggest to let it rest, because going forth with that would cause much more disrespect than already exist.
Agree.
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That's the point. Naturally, there ARE reasons why I.E. I personally think there can be another interpretation. Tho, sorry, I won't reveal this point in public since there are some thoughts in it I don't want to share publicly, which would naturally make a further discussion useless. That I do understand and that also makes me a bit helpless to state my point of view publicly.
If there's stuff you don't want to talk about in public, that's fine of course, but why then publicly insist upon your point-- and tell others they're wrong for disagreeing with you-- if you don't want to publicly explain it?
Well, I guess that answers the question as to whether there are any facts to back up the "it was for Toshi" side of the debate... I can't imagine a magazine interview or some other similar fact being too personal to mention publicly. ;)
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If there's stuff you don't want to talk about in public, that's fine of course, but why then publicly insist upon your point-- and tell others they're wrong for disagreeing with you-- if you don't want to publicly explain it?
Because it would be a lie to say that I totally agree with you point, and I'm probably a bit, or better to say very, emotional regarding to that topic. I just wanted to clarify that there still ARE other opinions. And the reason why I reacted was because it's just hard for me to shut up when I see that there's made fun about this. (because there are reasons why to think that way still)
And for the record - I DIDN'T say in any sentence that you are wrong - just to make that clear because I can't guarantee that my thoughts are right either.
Well, I guess that answers the question as to whether there are any facts to back up the "it was for Toshi" side of the debate... I can't imagine a magazine interview or some other similar fact being too personal to mention publicly. ;)
Yupp... there's the dilemma -.-
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And the reason why I reacted was because it's just hard for me to shut up when I see that there's made fun about this. (because there are reasons why to think that way still)
Maverick, I completely understand your unpleasant feelings.
However, I think you can rest assured - I don't think people here are making fun of the fact that you or anybody else think different and present different opinions.
Perhaps it it just my opinion, but what are people actually making fun of is the way these opinions were presented in the past (especially concerning the deleted thread). Whether it should be laid to rest or not - that's a different question and I myself think there's not much to say anymore, really. But I cannot blame people who still remember - and make fun of - the past, as it truly was... epic.
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OK so, it was written for BOTH hide and Toshi!
Case closed?
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Everyone knows my thoughts on this subject so I dont see the point in trying to argue my point.. but if anyone wants "proof" that Yoshiki wrote it for hide, send me a PM. Obviously I cant talk about it in public but I'd say after looking at this evidence.. its hard to argue that it wasnt written for hide without insulting Yoshiki in the process.
:D