Enough with the word "Jrock"!

[Aerce]

Gotta add Agalloch.. their 2 albums "The Mantle" and "Ashes against the gray" are brilliant..

[mC]

Hm...I must say that I used to think that it shouldn't be called J-Rock but, on further thought I have to disagree. There is a different sound and feel to Japanese rock than there is from Western rock. I think that it should deserve its own genre. Just my opinion.

[Overdose]

I don't really mind either way besides most to the "J-" music I listen too is better than the western stuff that comes out nowadays.  Why the heck can't we have a band like Versailles being popular here instead of things like Snow Patrol (yawn).  I think that tag also applies mainly to bands that sing in japanese in most peoples eyes too, since I like Galneryus and though some are in japanese most of the songs and albums I have are in english which has lead them to be seen as just power metal.

You just have to put up with it, someone hit the nail on the head when they mentioned the difference in music and the "ching-chong" language, some people just look down their noses at things that are foreign regardless of how talented or good the bands are.

Whilst I see why the j-rock tag isnt good for the music it is an easy (and lazy) way to just say you like Japanese Rock Music.

[radicalblues]

Am I allowed to necropost? I find it better than create a whole new thread just for this anyway, so... my friend Merry linked me to this old thread and I thought I'd update you.

Relating to the article I mentioned some time ago about Visual, you can read it here:
http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/x_visual_e.php

I hate to leave a link to other forum here, but if you have comments, help, flames, or anything, I'm more likely to read them here:
http://lnx.xradicaldreamers.net/xboards/index.php?showtopic=1369

I think that Visual/VisualKei suffers the same stigma as Jrock/Jpop/Jerkoff and whatever stupid terms, making people think they're genres when they're just trends used to sell an identity. I tried to elaborate about this on the article, and I hope someone finds it useful.

Thanks everyone for your useful posts, as you helped a lot.

[HarZy]

I'm too tired to register anywhere right now, so I'll just comment here.
That article was very good! It had lots of useful information I didn't know. I wish every "j-rocker" read that article, the world would be a better place.

[Dark Shadow]

I classify certain bands as Jrock. As some people on this thread said, the musical compostions are completely different than what you would find in other countries. Really it comes down to the use of rests and Dead notes in the chord progressions that give the music that Jrock sound.
Good Examples of what i would classify as Jrock are
D'erlanger
Boowy
Buck-Tick up until koroshi no shirabe

[X NUT]

I personally do not care what it is called. I'm more baffled over the so called distinction some make between X and X Japan as if their were two different bands.

[Dark Shadow]

It almost is 2 different bands. X Japan for the most part doesn't play X songs. The music style and production changed. For eample vanishing vision, blue blood and jealousy sound like shit with weak and sloppy productionband art of life and dahlia sound great with a strong and lush production. I consider myself more of an X fan personally. And finally Taiji is X, Heath is not.

[X NUT]

Well, bands often change their style, members, CD production yet remain the same band. I think it comes down to what is the essence of the band and I see no essential difference between X and X Japan. Just different names for the same band.

[Dark Shadow]

Ami- do you honestly think the production values on those albums are good? I've heard songs recorded   on a cheap tascam studio that sound better.

X Nut- I believe that the essence or vibe of the band did change with the name change. I enjoy both but as i said i'm more of an X fan. If the band didn't change the name i would say i'm more of a pre Art Of Life fan.

[X NUT]

Dark Shadow what you regard as essential to the band to be what it is, is not what I regard as essential. To me the music (once it's not a radical change in style), production, certain members, can change and still be the same band. For example, the change from Silent Jealousy to Art of life is not enough of a musical change to be regarded as a different band. I also don't regard Taiji, Pata, hide, Heath and the other members (with the exception of Toshi and Yoshiki which I regard as essential members) as essential to the band. These members can leave and yet still be the same band. Others (like yourself) will of course have different opinions as to what they think is essential. 

[Dark Shadow]

I believe every single member of a band is essential. Changing a member changes the dynamics of the band and the music the band produces. No matter what you call it after a band changes members it's not the same. But to each his own. At the end of the day we are all fans and that is what matters most.

[X NUT]

Yep we agree to disagree on this one. I think we did go off topic. I should have created a new thread for this.   

[Dark Shadow]

we might have gone off topic but it was still a good discussion. I respect your opinion.

[HarZy]

@ Dark Shadow: Do you seriously think Vanishing Vision and Blue Blood would have sounded good if they were over-produced like Dahlia and Jealousy?

[ElefeX]

I love the earlier albums, their production might not be state of the art but there is a raw and rough feeling to them, which I personally think works quite well!

As for X/X Japan, I don’t really see a difference and I class them as the same. Just because the dynamics of a group change does not mean the end of the original group, members can change but as X Nut said as long as the fundamental aspects remain then it is the same group. Pretty much every group goes through changes in the line-up throughout their career and their music naturally evolves as the group gets older but its still the same band.

It almost is 2 different bands. X Japan for the most part doesn't play X songs. The music style and production changed. For eample vanishing vision, blue blood and jealousy sound like shit with weak and sloppy productionband art of life and dahlia sound great with a strong and lush production. I consider myself more of an X fan personally. And finally Taiji is X, Heath is not.

X Japan do play songs from the X era, take the most recent setlist from Taiwan and look at the albums and the band name (X or X Japan) from which the songs are from: -
(not scientific analysis i know, but its the best i could do!)


Setlist:
(Taken from http://listentheworld.wordpress.com/2009/05/31/x-japan-world-tour-live-in-taiwan-setlist/)


01. Rusty Nail (Dahlia –X Japan)
02. WEEK END (Blue Blood – X)
- YOSHIKI Piano & SUGIZO Violin
03. Silent Jealousy (Jealousy – X)
- PATA Guitar solo
04. DRAIN (Dahlia – X Japan)
05. Say Anything – Acoustic Version (Jealousy – X)
06. Tears (Dahlia – X Japan, although has been around much longer)
07. Kurenai (Blue Blood – X (the version they play) also older version on Vanishing Vision -X)
08. VIOLET UK – ROSA
- YOSHIKI Drum solo
09 . Without You – Acoustic Version (X Japan)
10. I.V. (X Japan)

SE. WORLD ANTHEM (Blue Blood - X)

11. X (Blue Blood - X)
12. ENDLESS RAIN (Blue Blood - X)
13. ART OF LIFE – 2nd movement ( Art of Life – X Japan)

SE. Say Anything (Jealousy – X)
SE. Forever Love (Dahlia – X Japan)


I think a lot of people make the mistake when saying they don’t play X songs by meaning they don’t play songs from Vanishing Vision, which I agree they very rarely play - but as you can see they do play X songs and quite a few of them are regular live songs!
-----------------------------------

Anyway, back on topic; reading through this thread there are some very good posts and it has been a very interesting read!! I personally think that grouping bands together using a broad term such as “J rock” actually does no favours for the bands concerned, as the bands contained within the J rock term are extremely diverse and it overlooks unique characteristics and styles of individual bands.

However, people will always feel the need to classify things, especially in terms of marketing. If the J – tag was not successful in terms of promoting bands and selling music, then we would no longer hear it. So, like it or not, it is hear to stay and there isn’t much we can do about it.

At the end of the day, (I think I mentioned this in the other thread about what genre X is) I don’t really care – I don’t listen to music because it is labelled as a, b or c, I listen to it because I like it and that’s all that matters!!!

-----------
My apologies for the long post!

[Dark Shadow]

@HarZy- I think Blue Blood NEEDS to be Remixed and Remastered, Everything sounds to high and low at the same time so the music sounds like sludge. I think the only song that sounds good on Blue Blood is endless rain. As for Vanishing Vision, I'm not sure as it has a certain charm that i don't find in Blue Blood.