X Freaks Forum

News:

  • Welcome to the X FREAKS forum!
    Please read the rules :)
  • Please read and accept our Privacy Policy
  • XFF - Ad free since 2006 \o/

murder,suicide or an accident?

crazy bitch · 81809

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline [Didier]

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/didieer
Reply #120 on: August 19, 2007, 08:57:46 AM
Seelenraunen   (1 week ago)  
Some people say that it was suicide, some say it was an accident! A person that I know, did something with the witchboard and somebody from the other world have answered! He said, that he is hide and well....the person ( a friend from me) asked him, if it was suicide or an accident.....both times he said "no". Well, she asked him if it was murder - and he said "yes". I know, it sounds crazy - but I don`t lie to you!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k2j4tZRDt3U

 :?



Offline BizKiTRoAcH

  • Big fan
  • ****
    • Posts: 796
    • View Profile
Reply #121 on: August 19, 2007, 10:58:10 AM
Thats the biggest pile of crap i've heard so far. Oujia boards and all that crap are fake. I'm pretty sure if it was murder, there would have been SOME evidence to show that.



Offline friday

  • Moderators
  • Fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 441
    • View Profile
Reply #122 on: August 20, 2007, 09:31:36 AM
Seelenraunen needs to get hit by a newspaper and told a firm "No."

It really is pathetic, people saying things like that..  
Its so hard to think why someone would say that. What do they get out of it? What is the point of saying it? Do they feel special saying something so unnecessary and downright stupid??

Sorry for my rant, but things like that just piss me off.. :P

MODERATOR'd!


Offline ferret

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3557
    • View Profile
Reply #123 on: August 20, 2007, 12:16:10 PM
Quote from: "[Didier
"]Well, she asked him if it was murder - and he said "yes".


That theory would only work for the Kurt Cobain debate. :P

And suicide is murder, in away...

RIP


Offline motorhead

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Reply #124 on: September 09, 2007, 03:39:40 AM
Quote from: "BizKiTRoAcH"
Thats the biggest pile of crap i've heard so far. Oujia boards and all that crap are fake. I'm pretty sure if it was murder, there would have been SOME evidence to show that.


LOL, i know. right? superstitions are retarded as rumors.

anyways, as a lot of people said 1,000,000 x times: i never knew hide, i wasn't there the night he died, i didn't live with him, i never worked with him on a daily basis. was he murdered, did he kill himself, was it an accident? we don't know that. probably never well, he took it with him to the grave. so i can't make any conclusions or assumptions without proof.

and i don't think anyone should either. he's gone. that's it. just keep his memory alive.

most of hide's songs were about being despondent and obsessive-abusive relationships, so that might of hinted for a suicide.

i know it's hard and i'm just as jilted as you, but there's nothing we can do about it. but as the old rock and roll saying goes: "it's better to burn out than fade away."



Offline crazy bitch

  • Big fan
  • ****
    • Posts: 1015
    • View Profile
Reply #125 on: September 12, 2007, 10:24:41 AM
Quote from: "[Didier
"]Seelenraunen   (1 week ago)  
Some people say that it was suicide, some say it was an accident! A person that I know, did something with the witchboard and somebody from the other world have answered! He said, that he is hide and well....the person ( a friend from me) asked him, if it was suicide or an accident.....both times he said "no". Well, she asked him if it was murder - and he said "yes". I know, it sounds crazy - but I don`t lie to you!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k2j4tZRDt3U

 :?


::i just couldn't ignore that::

you may find it funny
at least respect the dead person,will you?


Offline HanZaKha

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 100
    • View Profile
Reply #126 on: November 30, 2007, 03:48:50 PM
I don't find it make sense to suicide by hanging himself on the doorknob by towel.
First of all, how big and high is the doorknob. Normally, it just 1 meter from the ground and hide is not that short.
Second of all, if u use towel as a rope to commit suicide it probably cannot hang from the doorknob. In the term of doorknob I assumed it has round shape, unlike door handle.

I hope my points are understandable.
maybe only the polices who were in the "suicide scene" know the truth.



Offline motorhead

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Reply #127 on: December 08, 2007, 10:07:26 PM
Quote from: "HanZaKha"
I don't find it make sense to suicide by hanging himself on the doorknob by towel.
First of all, how big and high is the doorknob. Normally, it just 1 meter from the ground and hide is not that short.
Second of all, if u use towel as a rope to commit suicide it probably cannot hang from the doorknob. In the term of doorknob I assumed it has round shape, unlike door handle.

I hope my points are understandable.
maybe only the polices who were in the "suicide scene" know the truth.


it wasnt a door knob it was a towel hanger. more so, he cut up the towel into a noose, so he what he knew what he was doing, even intoxicated.



Offline Uncontrol

  • Filesharers
  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Reply #128 on: December 16, 2007, 03:48:15 AM
After read two years worth of posts in this topic, I've got to be honest and say that I was a bit annoyed by PanthereNoire.

While everyone is allowed his/her own theories, I'd have to say PanthereNoire's ranks up there with the Toshi being turned into a brain washed hitman and was told to kill hide theory. Sorry, but it just sounds like a bit like someone you'd read on a fangirl's blog. I mean, hide being jealous of Toshi and Yoshiki's relationship? I was always under the impression that Yoshiki stuck around Taiji and hide more than Toshi. In fact, there's been times when I thought that Yoshiki was being a dick to Toshi.

I mean, like I said...everyone is allowed their own theories, but when you start saying things like "face the facts about hide's death", fact? The only proof that I've seen you post was a picture of Toshi and hide glaring at each other. The picture was obviously a candid shot, I'm sure if you take enough random pictures with your friends, you'll find out you'll make a funny face every now and then.

Also, as far as PanthereNoire saying that Taiji's wasn't qualified to say how he thought hide died, I just find that kinda of silly. I, obviously, don't know you...for all I know, you could be hide's uncle, but what's makes you qualified to state "facts" about hide's death? I'll take a shot in the dark and say the closest you've gotten to him was a grainy YouTube clip.



Offline friday

  • Moderators
  • Fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 441
    • View Profile
Reply #129 on: December 16, 2007, 11:15:38 AM
Good points, especially about the picture.. and Taiji's points are probably more valid then PN's, seeing as they were friends and in the same band.. But obviously PN has got alot closer to X Japan then grainy Youtube clips. She lives in Japan, and has known and loved X since the late 80s (If my memory serves me correct.)

MODERATOR'd!


Offline Uncontrol

  • Filesharers
  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Reply #130 on: December 16, 2007, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: "friday"
Good points, especially about the picture.. and Taiji's points are probably more valid then PN's, seeing as they were friends and in the same band.. But obviously PN has got alot closer to X Japan then grainy Youtube clips. She lives in Japan, and has known and loved X since the late 80s (If my memory serves me correct.)


Well, that was somewhat of a joke. <_<

My point was, she doesn't even know hide and yet she has attempted to discredit people who have known him for years.

But anyways...I'd still like proof of these said facts. :)



Offline friday

  • Moderators
  • Fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 441
    • View Profile
Reply #131 on: December 16, 2007, 11:27:40 AM
Yeah good points.. And it would be good for some kind of closure for the whole matter.. But that will probably never happen.

MODERATOR'd!


Offline X-J

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
Reply #132 on: December 18, 2007, 07:06:39 PM
I'm slightly more in the suicide camp though I'm no hide specialist... I think that hide, bullied as a child for being fat and with lots of experience as an outsider, really found his place in the sun with X. Now that X disbanded, hide was devastated because he had attached himself so much to the band.

"Don't say 'former X Japan,'" Hide admonished a rock journalist shortly after the band's break-up in December. The journalist, Says Josei Seven (5/12), was puzzled. Why not? he asked. And Hide explained: " I"m still X Japan. I haven't taken down the sign yet. I'll always be X Japan."

When a rock band has been around 15 years, as this one was, "always" comes to seem the right word. Friends agree that something went out of Matusmoto after the final concert last New Year's Eve. "X Japan was everthing to him," a musician friend tell Josei Seven. "He was more attached to the group than anyone. He was the one who tried hardest to keep to together."

He was know throughout his carees as a good drinker, but, with the band gone, his drinking changed. "He would knock back bourbon after bourbon, mumbling about his mission in life being over," a drinking buddy tells Josei Seven. "He seemed consumed by a feeling of futility."


One question I do think about is the popularity of hide pre- and post-mortum. Everyone's probably read the more critical Australian news story that mentioned that hide's solo sales were (or had up to then been) a disappointment. To my knowledge, of the time he was alive and doing solos, his first solo album was commercially the most successful.

I thus wonder if hide compared himself too much with Yoshiki's project with which he could not compete. There simply was not enough screen-time for him in his solo career. And that screen-time was his very life-blood. I think we have to remember that also Yoshiki's father hanged himself at exactly hide's age and ask whether there's a connection between the two (cause I'm sure Yoshiki must've talked lots and lots about his father). According to my theory, then, hide was very much Yoshiki's protégé.

It would also be interesting to know more about Yoshiki's father as a personality and the circumstances of his death. If the connection can be established, it might shed more light on the unfortunate event.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Anna

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1221
    • View Profile
    • Tsurezuregusa
Reply #133 on: December 19, 2007, 09:01:21 PM
Quote
Don't say 'former X Japan,'" Hide admonished a rock journalist shortly after the band's break-up in December. The journalist, Says Josei Seven (5/12), was puzzled. Why not? he asked. And Hide explained: " I"m still X Japan. I haven't taken down the sign yet. I'll always be X Japan."

When a rock band has been around 15 years, as this one was, "always" comes to seem the right word. Friends agree that something went out of Matusmoto after the final concert last New Year's Eve. "X Japan was everthing to him," a musician friend tell Josei Seven. "He was more attached to the group than anyone. He was the one who tried hardest to keep to together."

He was know throughout his carees as a good drinker, but, with the band gone, his drinking changed. "He would knock back bourbon after bourbon, mumbling about his mission in life being over," a drinking buddy tells Josei Seven. "He seemed consumed by a feeling of futility."


Where does this come from please? :shock:


As for Yoshiki's father, I am not 100 percent sure he commited the suicide the same way as hide (ie. hanging), but I know for sure it was because of financial problems. Also, I don't really think Yoshiki must have talked a lot about his father's suicide. It might be something a person from the West would do, perhaps, but not really Yoshiki. Of course, I cannot know what he told to hide personally, but I'm quite sure he rarely and only much later in his career mentioned his father's death and even later confirmed it was a suicide.

Pony rocks!


Offline xHanna

  • Rookie
  • *
    • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Reply #134 on: December 20, 2007, 09:32:14 PM
If thats true. ( I´m not saying that you are lying) It really changed my mind.

Reading such a things about hide is really sad. Knowing that he thought he wasn´t good enough is heartbreaking.

I have always thought it was an accident. Or I really hoped it was an accident. But now i´m not so sure anymore. What X-J said makes sense in the suicide question. If thats true it really could have been a suicide.

I dont really have an opinion about this becouse I actually dont have a clue what happened that night.

X-J: Where did you get this information ?



Offline Uncontrol

  • Filesharers
  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Reply #135 on: December 21, 2007, 01:16:41 AM
I would let you know where he got it from, but it won't let me post the link.



Offline Uncontrol

  • Filesharers
  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Reply #136 on: December 21, 2007, 01:18:04 AM
He got it from here -

www.pink_spider1.tripod.com/id13.html


Not sure how reliable it is though.



Offline xHanna

  • Rookie
  • *
    • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Reply #137 on: December 21, 2007, 02:11:52 PM
The link doesn´t work for me :(

But is that a site you can trust ? Is it connected to X or is it just a fan site ?
If somone can see it,please tell.



Offline Uncontrol

  • Filesharers
  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
Reply #138 on: December 21, 2007, 07:48:58 PM



Offline X-J

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
Reply #139 on: December 21, 2007, 10:11:23 PM
Yep, that's the site. Somehow I thought everyone had read those articles...  :?  

I may be wrong about the Yoshiki's father-hide -connection, seems like Y's father was a businessman who killed himself with pills (http://www.moon-soft.com/program/bbs/readelite36856.htm).

However, if we look at Yoshiki's lyrics, I wager that at least in Art of Life, which is supposedly Yoshiki's bio, he mentions that

I'm making the wall inside my heart
I don't wanna let my emotions get out
It scares me to look at the world


but slightly later,

I'm breaking the wall inside my heart
I just wanna let my emotions get out
Nobody can stop
I'm running to freedom
No matter how you try to hold me in your world
Like a doll carried by the flow of time
I sacrificed the present moment for the future
I was in chains of memory half-blinded
Losing my heart, walking in the sea of dreams


"At ten Yoshiki had to deal with his father's suicide.  
Life became very hard for his mother and him.  
He helped out every way possible and tired to be perfect  
so that his mother would not have to worry about him and  
could focus on the family business. He kept his tears to himself,
 letting only his journal and his best friend, Toshimitsu,  
know his true feelings."


I know from personal experience that if you have to repress your feelings for a considerably long period (say, years) without concrete relief and if these feelings are powerful, you react by making your emotions more explicit ever after. You become "unchained".

Thus, it seems that the father's death has been a very considerable event in Y's history and I would be surprised if Yoshiki did not mention that to hide as well (he composed a song for his father as late as 1993, the same year his musical biography, i.e. Art of Life, was published). Thus, it would seem that a more profound self-reflection over and acceptance of his father's death in the mid-1970s had to wait itself until early-1990s (I interpret Tears as well as Art of Life as therapeutic means for Y to deal with this loss). Only then, after absolutely rigorous and determined work to climb to the top, Yoshiki had time to breathe and heal himself. It seems that aggression and rebellion has been one channel to vent out these badly repressed feelings but later it was largely replaced by calmer tones.

Of course, other events may have contributed to Yoshiki's mental state as well but father's loss seems paramount pre-1998.

People such as Yoshiki tend to dwell in drama and emotions (I've somewhat similar characteristics). If hide was in a desperate need for attention, it just may be that he was reminded of Yoshiki's profound impression over his father's death... Which would make hide's act the ultimate epitaph to X. It may even be that towards the end hide was irked by Yoshiki's preoccupation with his father which, ironically, had greatly contributed to X's success.

I wonder if this is also one major reason why hide embarked on a solo career which also dates at this time (i.e. early-1990s) of Yoshiki's great self-reflection.

Of course, this scenario would require that Yoshiki and hide were not on particularly good and close terms toward the end and that the post-X hide felt abandoned behind all the merriment and gratuitiousness. A hint at this direction is, I think, provided by hide's diacronically different attitude to music when detached from X. It almost seems as if hide strongly tried to break free from the all-pervading gloominess of Yoshiki, only to realise that gloominess is all he's got, the only tool given him to build a life with. Suicide was the ultimate capitulation to this realization.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Anna

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1221
    • View Profile
    • Tsurezuregusa
Reply #140 on: December 22, 2007, 02:08:37 PM
Not that there wasn't a lot of truth in what You say, but... somehow it seems a little over the top. Well, I guess I will have to think it over a bit.  :)

Pony rocks!


Offline visualrocker69

  • Rookie
  • *
    • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Reply #141 on: February 03, 2008, 05:16:06 PM
I've briefly read over parts of this thread and I just have to say, some of you have come up with brilliant stuff. Hats off to those of you who did.

I think there's enough information out there to support the claim that hide's suicide was intentional. To call it a simple accident, to say something as ridiculous as "hide was a happy person!" is just a blatant insult to his legacy.

Furthermore, to state that investigating his death is pointless ("He's dead, and there's nothing WE can do about it, why do the specifics matter, etc") is also pretty far out of line. It's not important to know? Of course it is. One cannot fully grasp the meanings of hide's lyrics, cryptic as they often are, without understanding what was going on in his head. If you're blind to the fact that his death was intentional, you'll be blind to the meaning behind "Pink Spider", for example.

There's nothing we can do about it? No, there IS something we can do about it. We can put an end to all of these misunderstandings and let the issue rest. Along with hide, I might add. The longer the nature of his death remains a question, the longer we as a fanbase can have no closure whatsoever. It's been nearly 10 fucking years since his death, and this issue is still one that keeps us restless for nights. Let's put our mnids at ease.

I'll say this - I'm working on a tribute to hide for 2008.05.02. Since I finally have access to a professional recording studio (due to being enrolled in the class) I have decided to cover PINK SPIDER. To supplement this, my girlfriend and I are working on an (academic) literary analysis of the song and its meaning in the context of his death. (To all you Michel Foucault followers... sorry ;p no seperation between author and his work here under MY watch!) As an added bonus, she is going to indulge her artistic side and make the whole thing look nice and presentable. And professional, of course. (Yey, photoshop, yey! :P)

And lastly, this... project will contain a coherent and reliable account on hide and the circumstances behind his death. I will NOT be writing this from an objective perspective, I warn you. I firmly believe that his death was an intentional suicide, and I will seek to prove this. I will exploit every resource I have and use every last ounce of rhetoric within me.

And to this thread - thanks for getting me started. Your words were, in a way, just the spark of inspiration I needed.

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline Hollywood

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/363181252
Reply #142 on: February 03, 2008, 11:09:20 PM
Your project sounds interesting, I'd be especially curious to see the essay once it's done.

My personal belief is that it was an autoerotic asphyxiation accident, though in my opinion hide was not a happy person and a suicide would not have been out of character (I just don't think that's what happened that night).  Nonetheless I would be curious how you prove it as a suicide.

However, with all respect for both hide and your project, I really don't think the issue will ever rest.  Given the level of mystery surrounding his death, there will always be those who wonder, disagree, and theorize about it.

Either way, good luck with your project and RIP hide.

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline visualrocker69

  • Rookie
  • *
    • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Reply #143 on: February 04, 2008, 12:51:34 AM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
Given the level of mystery surrounding his death, there will always be those who wonder, disagree, and theorize about it.


Sad but true. I've been working on Rocket Dive, Pink Spider, and Ever Free today, comparing different translations and then translating those specific verses in question myself. It's interesting how much is left to interpretation when translating Japanese. The nature of the language is such that you can be as literal or cryptic as you wish to be - to a much more... extreme degree than in English.

At any rate, I am convinced that hide had bipolar disorder. Those three songs primarily deal with the same theme: escapism from one's circumstances. They all share the notion of being in undesirable circumstances: the monotony of life referenced at the beginning of "Rocket Dive", the social stigma attached to creativity in "Ever Free" (How much does love cost? Can you eat a dream? (My) dreams were called nonsensical...) and the 'web of lies' concept of Pink Spider.

In all three songs, the protagonist longs to break free from his metaphorical bonds of captivity, whether professional, social,  or psychological, etc. My theory is between the time that "Rocket Dive" was released in January and the following May, at some point he realized that death itself was the only way to truly escape his circumstances.

As for his *specific* problems, well, this mystery to all of us. My guess is that X Japan's breakup had something to do with this. It's absurd to suggest that it didn't. As we know, hide experienced much difficulty in his early life. In X, he found his niche, his place in the world. He felt like he had a purpose, at last. Once this was torn away from him, he must have felt some kind of desperation. He either needed to re-establish himself, reach higher grounds, etc ... or it was all over.

"Rocket Dive" is written from a much more optimistic and empowered  perspective than the other too. In this song, hide was clearly unhappy with his situation, but felt that he could overcome it. Through the lense of my theory, it seems as though he was experiencing the omnipotence associated with the "manic" phase of bipolar disorder.

"Pink Spider" seems like a response to "Rocket Dive". He was clearly no longer in the same optimistic mindset that had inspired Rocket Dive. I believe that Pink Spider is a reflection on how he arrived at this point. During his time in X Japan, he was a spider, trapped within a scheme which he thought was the whole world. Everything came to him with ease (as a spider's prey arrives naturally at his web) and the world (which he knew) was at his mercy. But this was all lies.
His solo career (most likely prompted by whoever this "bird from heaven" refers to, whoever his inspiration was...) was essentially an attempt to "fly with borrowed wings". This building off of PanthereNoire's theory... Perhaps his act of killing the butterfly, not out of hatred, but just because he had no wings, is an allusion to how hide destroyed the relationship between Yoshiki and Toshi, and subsequently X itself.
Do I personally think that hide destroyed X? Absolutely not. Yoshiki became stagnant after Art of Life, his magnum opus, was achieved. This is my firm belief. However, this does NOT rule out the possibility that hide blamed himself in some way. (I need to find a citation for this) but if I remember correctly, hide made some comments along the lines of "X would be forgotten if one of their members didn't die."

The rest of the song is fairly straightforward. His flight on borrowed wings failed (at least in his mind) and all he caught were glimpses of the sky. He tries to fly once again - but this time, I think its an allusion to death - which in hide's mind, seemed to be the only escape.

"Ever Free" is probably the most overtly depressive of all three songs. It's not nearly as cryptic as "Pink Spider". In Ever Free, hide pretty much blatantly alludes to his loss of passion, his frustration with how society views his "dreams", the realization that his days were coming to an end, etc.
It's actually interesting - hide often discusses very solemn themes, but injects this content matter into joyful music! Hi-Ho, Misery, and Ever Free are just a few examples. This phenomenon may actually be a projection of his character: yes, he'll smile for the camera and act charming and charismatic, but inside, the only thing he feels is sorrow. Similarly these songs are very mirthful on the surface, but the lyrics (the SUBSTANCE) seem very desolate. This is one of the most obvious reasons that saying that "hide was happy, there's no way he'd intentionally kill himself" is utterly absurd!

Anyway, this is just scratching the surface, a momentary stream of conciousness, if you will. I have infinately much more to say on the subject, but alas... I have papers to write and time is a salacious jezebel, if you know what I mean ;p

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline visualrocker69

  • Rookie
  • *
    • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Reply #144 on: February 04, 2008, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: "Saint(c)"
Very Interesting theories there VRocker69.
As I've never read translations of those songs hide sounds like he was a complex person I don't think anyone could figure him out some people are just like that.


Oh you simply MUST read them!!!

And yes, no one will TRULY be able to figure him out. The same goes for many artistic geniuses. However, to attempt to do so is very rewarding and enlightening. I don't think its possible to fully appreciate the works of an artist without thinking deeply about their substance and meaning. After all, isn't it this very substance which seperates music and art from entertainment?

kenchan [松長健人 / 서켄지]


Offline Hollywood

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/363181252
Reply #145 on: February 04, 2008, 11:12:09 PM
I'm really impressed by how much thought you've put into this!  Even just the fact that you've taken hide's work so seriously and explored it to the degree that you have is a serious tribute to both the artist and his body of work.  Very cool.

Quote from: "visualrocker69"

At any rate, I am convinced that hide had bipolar disorder.


Yeah, this is something I believe as well, and I truly share your annoyance at those who believe he was a constantly happy person-- or even a generally happy person.  He strikes me as having been a very complex man; certainly, he made thematically very complex music.  To me this is what made him so unique as an artist: in my view he was a man who truly "kissed his misery", who embraced his own darkness and made not whiny emo songs about it, not morbid metal, but... catchy, experimental pop songs.  This is what made him so unique.  It's a true shame that he and his music are often remembered not for this melancholy complexity, this singular artistic voice, but for no more than their most exterior (and "happiest") layer.

Some of his songs were a lot more personal than others, though.  I personally never attached a great deal of meaning to Rocket Dive-- sometimes a catchy pop anthem with a giant blue penis on the cover is just a catchy pop anthem with a giant blue penis on the cover?-- but put into context with Ever Free and Pink Spider I do agree that it could have represented a manic period.

Quote from: "visualrocker69"

Do I personally think that hide destroyed X? Absolutely not. Yoshiki became stagnant after Art of Life, his magnum opus, was achieved. This is my firm belief. However, this does NOT rule out the possibility that hide blamed himself in some way. (I need to find a citation for this) but if I remember correctly, hide made some comments along the lines of "X would be forgotten if one of their members didn't die."


Very interesting, I would be VERY interested in seeing that quote from hide, if you manage to find it again.  Though personally I see cause for the change in X/Yoshiki's stagnation differently-- I believe in the "perfect storm" theory, i.e., the specific combination of Toshi/hide/Pata/Taiji/Yoshiki was necessary for X's creativity, not in spite of but specifically BECAUSE of the conflicts it caused among its members, especially conflicts between Yoshiki and Taiji-- and if I'm not mistaken the majority of the work on Art of Life (other than the final recording) was completed during that period.  But that's a whole other topic...

Since you're dealing a lot with the themes of breaking free from metaphorical bonds and of missing wings/flying with borrowed wings, I'm very curious how you would interpret Hide Your Face, especially the photos in the booklet.  I've always felt that Hide Your Face was the most personal of his albums, and there was even an interview where he stated that the theme of the album was "me".  And perhaps also significantly for your "wings" theory, the cover of his first-ever solo release-- the Dice single-- is a wing with a large (shotgun?) hole blown in the center (this same image is also on the back of the Hide Your Face booklet).  The lyrics of Dice are quite interesting too, and in my opinion almost startlingly revealing; I'm thinking especially of the part about his libido and of how life and death are two faces on the same dice.

Of course, Hide Your Face was years before his death, but I think the material is certainly there for one to make a case that his bipolarism was nothing recent or new.

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline Sander

  • Administrator
  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3852
    • View Profile
    • X-Freaks
Reply #146 on: February 05, 2008, 08:18:50 PM
Quote from: "visualrocker69"
At any rate, I am convinced that hide had bipolar disorder.
I just read somewhere that Britney Spears is believed to have that as well... Lol random info I know but... :P


Anyway, you have really interesting theories and I believe we'd all love to see your work once it's done :)

This is my administrator color.


Offline Flippinklein

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/lostpyscho
Reply #147 on: April 18, 2008, 10:34:05 PM
i have only read to page 2 please note.


one I understand and...kinda get panth's theory, and it is believable to me

Toshi and Yoshiki knew each other for a very long time, before hide was in the picture.
I mean, Yoshiki and Toshi are the original X members...back in 1982 and such when jun and hikaru were in X.

I know its a sensitive subject, and while I want to believe it was an accident...
all things....point to suicide.
I really thought about this, and I tried hard to put these things together.

I mean its not that hard to believe.
Not to long ago, one of my friends little brother commited suicide.
He was 14. Happy, and was always smiling and joking.
But there was something there that we just did not see.
So he hung himself in the woods by his school during school.


Its not that rare for seemingly happy people to get into those moods and do things.

I say this in no disrespect.

RIP and In my heart

hide


 He lives on with each smile that his music brings to each childs and adults face


Offline MiscastDice

  • Fan
  • ***
    • Posts: 489
    • View Profile
Reply #148 on: April 19, 2008, 12:25:10 AM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
I'm really impressed by how much thought you've put into this!  Even just the fact that you've taken hide's work so seriously and explored it to the degree that you have is a serious tribute to both the artist and his body of work.  Very cool.

Quote from: "visualrocker69"

At any rate, I am convinced that hide had bipolar disorder.


Yeah, this is something I believe as well, and I truly share your annoyance at those who believe he was a constantly happy person-- or even a generally happy person.  He strikes me as having been a very complex man; certainly, he made thematically very complex music.  To me this is what made him so unique as an artist: in my view he was a man who truly "kissed his misery", who embraced his own darkness and made not whiny emo songs about it, not morbid metal, but... catchy, experimental pop songs.  This is what made him so unique.  It's a true shame that he and his music are often remembered not for this melancholy complexity, this singular artistic voice, but for no more than their most exterior (and "happiest") layer.

Some of his songs were a lot more personal than others, though.  I personally never attached a great deal of meaning to Rocket Dive-- sometimes a catchy pop anthem with a giant blue penis on the cover is just a catchy pop anthem with a giant blue penis on the cover?-- but put into context with Ever Free and Pink Spider I do agree that it could have represented a manic period.

Quote from: "visualrocker69"

Do I personally think that hide destroyed X? Absolutely not. Yoshiki became stagnant after Art of Life, his magnum opus, was achieved. This is my firm belief. However, this does NOT rule out the possibility that hide blamed himself in some way. (I need to find a citation for this) but if I remember correctly, hide made some comments along the lines of "X would be forgotten if one of their members didn't die."


Very interesting, I would be VERY interested in seeing that quote from hide, if you manage to find it again.  Though personally I see cause for the change in X/Yoshiki's stagnation differently-- I believe in the "perfect storm" theory, i.e., the specific combination of Toshi/hide/Pata/Taiji/Yoshiki was necessary for X's creativity, not in spite of but specifically BECAUSE of the conflicts it caused among its members, especially conflicts between Yoshiki and Taiji-- and if I'm not mistaken the majority of the work on Art of Life (other than the final recording) was completed during that period.  But that's a whole other topic...

Since you're dealing a lot with the themes of breaking free from metaphorical bonds and of missing wings/flying with borrowed wings, I'm very curious how you would interpret Hide Your Face, especially the photos in the booklet.  I've always felt that Hide Your Face was the most personal of his albums, and there was even an interview where he stated that the theme of the album was "me".  And perhaps also significantly for your "wings" theory, the cover of his first-ever solo release-- the Dice single-- is a wing with a large (shotgun?) hole blown in the center (this same image is also on the back of the Hide Your Face booklet).  The lyrics of Dice are quite interesting too, and in my opinion almost startlingly revealing; I'm thinking especially of the part about his libido and of how life and death are two faces on the same dice.

Of course, Hide Your Face was years before his death, but I think the material is certainly there for one to make a case that his bipolarism was nothing recent or new.


I agree with your previous theory and with this post. I don't think it was intentional suicide as much as autoerotic with a subtext of "there's no way I'll die" and yeah, once someone believes they can do something and not die, that's when they get careless and make mistakes. . .



Offline Hyunkel

  • Fan
  • ***
    • Posts: 332
    • View Profile
Reply #149 on: May 02, 2008, 03:43:24 AM
Suicide, murder or accident...accident for me of course

But that doesn't really matter...which matters is that today it's been 10 years since his death...already

Forever Love hide...we won't forget you ever

..Close your eyes and I'll kill you in the rain...

...Art of Life An Eternal Bleeding Heart...