The mafia of the visual indies industry

[Sander]

A really interesting interview with an ex Visual-Kei record label employee:
http://www.hellodamage.com/top/2010/03/01/interview-with-an-ex-visual-kei-record-executive/

Make sure to check out the chart in the end of the interview!

[finndave]

Wow, pretty hard-hitting stuff...
Interesting read though, don't really know what to say about it.

[Faestian]

Fascinating inside view. Thanks Hypno.

I already knew some of this, and have little doubt as to the veracity of the remainder. There was nothing in it that made my eyebrows raise, however, I wonder if this is the whole story? I must admit, I am curious what Satoh san's motives were for agreeing to this interview. Was it an all consuming desire to reveal to the masses the corruption inherent, not only in Japan, but in all, global, mega-corporate industries; or could it perhaps be sour grapes and a wish to show the industry in the worst possible light? Placing one's personal safety in danger to become a whistle blower usually falls under one of these two categories, and is usually done with higher profiled assistance than an online VK site. Without knowing who this person really is, I take some of what he says with a dram of doubt, and I fully distrust his motives.   

[Neru]

I Justed Wanted to ask if this is legit? Because this looks like a conspiracy theory's interview. The only thing left to say is that hide's death was arranged by the mob because he went solo.

And that Table? It gives the idea that Yoshiki is trying to rule the world or something, are they trying to stain the Visual Kei image or getting the fans angry? well congratulations hellodamage, you just got zero inches closer.

[obi325]

It' sure sound's like a conspiracy theory but i doubt it's far from truth, it's how (music) business runs all around the world

and there probably are guys above yoshiki in that chart

[Ashura Shadow]

Wow... that's what I call an honest talk xD
I guess everyone knew already that the entertainment industry is all about money... but to think that every individual involved in it is actually working with/for each other - that's something that is definitely unique to Japan.

Fascinating inside view. Thanks Hypno.

I already knew some of this, and have little doubt as to the veracity of the remainder. There was nothing in it that made my eyebrows raise, however, I wonder if this is the whole story? I must admit, I am curious what Satoh san's motives were for agreeing to this interview. Was it an all consuming desire to reveal to the masses the corruption inherent, not only in Japan, but in all, global, mega-corporate industries; or could it perhaps be sour grapes and a wish to show the industry in the worst possible light? Placing one's personal safety in danger to become a whistle blower usually falls under one of these two categories, and is usually done with higher profiled assistance than an online VK site. Without knowing who this person really is, I take some of what he says with a dram of doubt, and I fully distrust his motives.   

This Satoh said that people who didn't make it in the VK scene would become employees at the company - it could be what happened to him, and why he's talking about it... Plus some people do tell the truth for the sake of telling the truth. 

I Justed Wanted to ask if this is legit? Because this looks like a conspiracy theory's interview. The only thing left to say is that hide's death was arranged by the mob because he went solo.

And that Table? It gives the idea that Yoshiki is trying to rule the world or something, are they trying to stain the Visual Kei image or getting the fans angry? well congratulations hellodamage, you just got zero inches closer.

It doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me, what would this Satoh get for lying? It's anonymous, so he can't be some crazed fan trying to get famous, and I doubt the interviewer paid him to talk bullshit. I also doubt there's a major company behind him or something, if it was the case his story would have been broadcast in the media, not published on some unknown website.

I think this chart only points out something lots of people already knew: Yoshiki influences A LOT the VK industry. The interviewer never said that what Yoshiki is doing is wrong - the aim of this article is only to show reality the way it is.

[dilbot]

People can lie solely for the sake of stirring up controversy.

Although "Satoh" may not have meant to "attack" these people, the comparison of yakuza with VK companies certainly carries negative connotations to suggest that he is indeed on the attack

[Sander]

I Justed Wanted to ask if this is legit? Because this looks like a conspiracy theory's interview. The only thing left to say is that hide's death was arranged by the mob because he went solo.

That conclusion is a bit wrong, because a) hide brought in millions of yen, no matter if he went solo or was in a band and b) this interview is about the indies industry, unknown bands, underground, not big and well-established bands such as X Japan. Of course they probably still are connected in a way, but instead of being abused by the record labels, they bring in that much money, that they go major and for sure get a much bigger cut of the income.

And from what I read out of this interview, the industry there, as it is, is not all bad. As Mr Satoh said, only one in 30 bands bring in more money than they are spent on. Music industry isn't as easy that no matter who can play the bass a bit brings in enough money to live in a mansion. There is lot's of competition and it's a tough world becoming big. As it was said there, the label is like a family, but not Godfather-style (if you want to leave the band, you are allowed to, even though if you are actually bringing in money they'll try to convince you otherwise).

[Ann1958]

Make sure to check out the chart in the end of the interview!

I can't read it that chart. It doesn't work when I click on it.

[Neru]

This Satoh said that people who didn't make it in the VK scene would become employees at the company - it could be what happened to him, and why he's talking about it... Plus some people do tell the truth for the sake of telling the truth. 

Sweet revenge uh? I still doubt the veracity of this quotations. I mean, of course that some companies are linked and share proffit from each other, but I don't think this is as dramatized as it is written.

It doesn't sound like a conspiracy to me, what would this Satoh get for lying? It's anonymous, so he can't be some crazed fan trying to get famous, and I doubt the interviewer paid him to talk bullshit. I also doubt there's a major company behind him or something, if it was the case his story would have been broadcast in the media, not published on some unknown website.

I think this chart only points out something lots of people already knew: Yoshiki influences A LOT the VK industry. The interviewer never said that what Yoshiki is doing is wrong - the aim of this article is only to show reality the way it is.

The reason why this was published in an unknown website is what makes me doubt of this interview, if he wanted to expose this business that way, he sould have gotten TV Tokyo or something, to blur his face and distorce his voice and then say what he wants to say.

And yes we all know how Yoshiki is involved in the VK's mainstream business, But he is not the Godfather I think (Thank you Hypno  ).

That conclusion is a bit wrong, because a) hide brought in millions of yen, no matter if he went solo or was in a band and b) this interview is about the indies industry, unknown bands, underground, not big and well-established bands such as X Japan. Of course they probably still are connected in a way, but instead of being abused by the record labels, they bring in that much money, that they go major and for sure get a much bigger cut of the income.

Yes, that actually makes sense, Thank you again Hypno.

To end this almost spammed like post, I think that this reminded us that the music business is not a pink world, and money plays a major role in the game, along with luck  and talent, and that Internet talk should not take over our heads.

Make sure to check out the chart in the end of the interview!

I can't read it that chart. It doesn't work when I click on it.

Use the right mouse and click open link.

[Ann1958]

Thanks Neru!

Well, by coincidence, I just have read an article in a Belgian magazine that main musicians here earn about average 1000 euro per month and lesser. That they who are married with someone who works are very happy having a partner who works. Many artists in the West can live, (if they can live) not from their music but because they are allianted to a brandmerk (coffee, car, whatever...) When they will perform in another country, that coasts money instead earning money and so on...and so on...
The few artists who are making it and can really live of their art, are the very big ones, and that is minority.
It is a battle for all artists, and they all have someone who, in the beginning says them how to act, what to wear etc…And after having success, with great luck , then they can say: now I do what I want to do etc…

Pink worlds don’t exist. And the art world is a very hard one I think. Look at the stories of actrices who sleep with producers etc…before they get success in the filmindustrie.

And at the end, all is business. If I don’t do my work good: my boss will fire me. I have the luck that I always am the same (myself, I can’t be otherwhise) everywhere, and that I am accepted like that. But look around you in school and at work: how many people are really themselves? Most of them are acting, being hypocrite, because they think they have to, to survive. Most people are somewhere a sort of ‘slaves’ I think, and at the end, we live in industry, we got to eat and study or let study our children, and when you are 60, you mayby can say: now I do what I want. That’s life!

And when you look at people who leave their country in the hope to get a better life in another country, and in the other country they live with different families together in little places having a very hard life and being happy to have work, though it is very hard work etc…

I don’t know, it’s all about life. And the one’s life is a better than the other’s life. It is all about how you look at it. There are worser, more worser things than what I have read in the link of that website…

Yoshiki, the godfather …my God  What will be the next 

Again, very happy that I am not a public figure!!! What a dog's life!!!

[Wearex316]

Everything he said makes perfect sense. you see a similar thing happen here in the US alot of rappers are like that.

And this is my thoughts
Yoshiki as Godfather makes sense. he's big and i dont mean X big his name goes along way. just look where he lives in LA two houses from the Jackson family. now they are the biggest family/name in the music industry. you have to be somebody to get a place that close they are not gonna let just anyone live near them.

And lets say just be cause you never heard of them don't mean they are not there. when i was younger i listened to NIN and Manson. then when you get older and start listening to X you find out they knew hide.

damn it i lost my train of thought i cant remember where i was going with this. oh well hope you understand what i was saying.
time for sleep.

[HarZy]

If everything said there is true, my already lowered respect towards Yoshiki will fall to a negative amount. That's just horrible! Also explains why all shitty vk bands sound alike.

[Sander]

If everything said there is true, my already lowered respect towards Yoshiki will fall to a negative amount. That's just horrible! Also explains why all shitty vk bands sound alike.

1) This is about the 90s indies visual scene, not the big bands
2) The 'families' are not mafia, ie. criminal. What they do is (mostly) legal, they support their 'family' members, invest in them (as you read, only 1 out of 10, nowadays 30, brings any money in). The only bad thing you might consider is that they don't allow other labels into the scene without their permission.

[HarZy]

If everything said there is true, my already lowered respect towards Yoshiki will fall to a negative amount. That's just horrible! Also explains why all shitty vk bands sound alike.

The only bad thing you might consider is that they don't allow other labels into the scene without their permission.

That alone is pretty bad in my opinion, but also the facts that the band members had to live in shitty apartments without getting money from album sales, the maxi-single thing (which everybody already knew, though), labels not allowing the "musicians" quit if they were successful, producers having to take drugs to make enough songs for all the bands..

[demonbefriender]

You might as well not even defend it. What Satoh said in that interview sums it all up well, and a lot of that applies to major bands too.

[MisterEN]

Korea is probably the worst for this, they'll build these boybands from the ground up inside the company on development deals and then use the money they saved to promote the band, since they've marketed the band so well it ends up selling a ton and the band doesn't see a dime.

[Ashura Shadow]

Korea is probably the worst for this, they'll build these boybands from the ground up inside the company on development deals and then use the money they saved to promote the band, since they've marketed the band so well it ends up selling a ton and the band doesn't see a dime.

The recent 'slave contract' controversies sums this up quite well... not to mention extreme cases like the one of the actress Jang Ja-yeon.

But I think the main difference between the K-Pop and J-Pop industries is that there is more rivalry in the K-Pop one... we probably wouldn't see such a thing as SME versus Mnet in Japan.

All in all... the industry is definitely fucked up. 

[Wearex316]

this has always gone on its like this everywhere. its just how life is.

[Wearex316]

i remembered where i was going. like i said our rap is like this and probably other genres as well. but heres an example. lets start with DEATH ROW RECORDS owned by suge knight Main artist Dr Dre Snoop Tupac etc. dre and snoop leave DEATH ROW. Dre Starts AFTERMATH Snoop starts DOGG POUND RECORDS. Dre sighs Eminem  who starts SHADY records which has clothing and what not. Eminem sighs 50 cent who starts G-Unit records which also has clothing and other stuff. then from G-unit there's other little company's. now the money gets split all up G-units company's have to pay G-unit records,Shady records,Aftermath and Death row. G-unit records money gets spit between shady aftermath and death row and so on and so on. Now death row now a days is pretty much dead to the public. but yet they still get most the money. its just the way most businesses are run.

[Rafaell]

Im not surprised at all. Its business. This is how the world is.

[Ashura Shadow]

i remembered where i was going. like i said our rap is like this and probably other genres as well. but heres an example. lets start with DEATH ROW RECORDS owned by suge knight Main artist Dr Dre Snoop Tupac etc. dre and snoop leave DEATH ROW. Dre Starts AFTERMATH Snoop starts DOGG POUND RECORDS. Dre sighs Eminem  who starts SHADY records which has clothing and what not. Eminem sighs 50 cent who starts G-Unit records which also has clothing and other stuff. then from G-unit there's other little company's. now the money gets split all up G-units company's have to pay G-unit records,Shady records,Aftermath and Death row. G-unit records money gets spit between shady aftermath and death row and so on and so on. Now death row now a days is pretty much dead to the public. but yet they still get most the money. its just the way most businesses are run.

That's a good example! I remember seeing an interview of 50cent on french TV, where the interviewer kept asking 50 cent if the rap industry was involved with the mafia, as it was rumored to be... 50 cent only answered he was unaware of these kind of things.

I guess all industries are pretty much involved with each other... apart from legality, what we should question is the morality of these ways of doing business. Does it allow everyone to start a business if they want to, are the profits being fairly shared, etc. But I can't help thinking that it's just the way capitalism is... asking for equity would probably be asking for economic interventions... would that really solve anything? 

[Dark Shadow]

That interview was very eye opening.