X Freaks Forum
Offtopic => Offtopic => Topic started by: Sirimono on April 12, 2008, 12:15:11 AM
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I have looked through the pages and I couldn't find a thread about this yet... so well
what do you believe in? What is your religion and do you live after it?
Do you have any special personal belief?
I myself am baptised, but I'm not christian at all. I actually despise europe for forcing their christian ideals upon all other parts on the world.
christian ideals are on the one side what is said in the bible, but on the other hand are the Human Rights just a symbol of the christian ideals and I don't think we all should just accept them, but maybe have a thought if the ethics with which we grew up are possibly wrong...
I have a strong belief in a life after death, partly because the thought of nothingness after death scares me.
I believe in a spirit, that exists in another dimension, that is free from body etc. and therefore can't die
And so I believe it's possible to meet everyone again in the life after death... and it might be easier since we could move around more freely.
But well, it is just what I want most to be there after death. I fear most of the other possibilites
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Personally i am an agnostic. At Sixth Form (College) i learnt quite a lot about life and ethics in Philosophy. I found a lot of it very interesting.
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Hm, I'm too much of Agent Scully for being able to believe in something god-like. (And I never got why Scully believes in god! :shock:)
I grew up in a family full atheists. My grandparents resigned from church when my parents were still children, because they simply felt no need for the church anymore.
Apart from this I'm a person who's always searching for explanations and proofs. But I don't believe in the absolute truth either - my opinion is, that the truth depends on the point of view of an individual, so I also accept it when there are people around who believe in a god.
I cannot imagine that there are spirits around and I cannot comprehend how people can believe that Adam and Eve were the first human beings. I cannot believe that a mighty spirit created all life on earth. I don't believe that the bones of the dinosaurs are fake and that we didn't develope from the apes.
And I'm angry about what especially Christianity has done in history and still does in present. Naturally I don't blame it on any person who believes - much more on the institution and how the leaders of that institution betrayed and still betray the trust of people who really believe.
They all say you gotta respect the words of god and follow them. Their god (as well as most of the gods) said: You shall not kill! ... just an example.
There are many other points I don't like about religious institutions, but I don't want to write a statement with an extent of the Bible now. :P
All in all: Give me a proof or a logical explanation why a god or mighty ghost should exist and I might think about it. 8) But I'm fine with people who believe... As long as no one get's hurt because of it - go for it!
EDITED TO ADD:
Oh, there's one thing I believe in: Rock'n'Roll and the power of music in general! 8)
Psychology in some ways...
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yeah i know what you mean. But i'm less against the institutions, but rather against the people that follow the institutions blind...
One thing is, that when you grow up in a european state, you will most likely accept the laws and ethics present, so you think those are the best laws and best ethics that exist and that's why we gotta show everyone else on the world how they gotta live.
The asian states lived with completely different ethics and with opening them we forced them to accept our image of peace and a good living together.
Asian countries have a much bigger feeling for pride and a smaller feeling for the individual gain.
The individuality came in europe from the 17th to 19th century and well... i would say it is a good thing, but maybe a chinese wouldn't say so....
I just don't like it that so many people live in europe, say they are atheist and don't believe into christianity and still live without thinking in a country that follows christian laws and ethics.
I would like more people to think about it... they believe they think freely, but in the end they still follow a religion
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Skeptical agnostic. Anything's possible, but some things seem a lot more likely than others.
I consider myself tolerant of others' religions, though. So long as nothing is being forced upon anyone and no one's being hurt who doesn't want to be, then I say everyone should be free to believe (or disbelieve) what they want. In fact I think religions are interesting, I just don't go for any of them myself.
And I have some "Catholic experience" and enjoy Catholic art, though I wouldn't consider myself Catholic (too many differences in values, even aside of the belief aspect).
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I just don't like it that so many people live in europe, say they are atheist and don't believe into christianity and still live without thinking in a country that follows christian laws and ethics.
I don't think that I follow Christianity only because I think killing people and stealing is unjustness. :P
I think it's much more sad that so many people who believe in god give a shit on what their god is telling them. That is in my opinion much more ridiculous. Why is killing in the name of ... better than killing just because? (Same for Asian religion/culture: Why is killing because of hurt pride better than killing just because?)
Why is getting AIDS and birthing children although you cannot feed them better than safer sex?
And I won't move from here only because the basis for our legal system was the bible once. Then I wouldn't be allowed to live anywhere. Nearly every place on earth is influenced by any religion. And saying to be atheist means believing in no god - What has this to do with the fact that the country follows christian laws and ethics? You can follow them without having a god as a reason, but just because of thinking that this is just reasonable.
No one will force me to marry or to only have one partner in my life. No one will force me to only have sex when I'm intending to have a baby. I will not burn in hell only because I'm envious about people or because I ate more than I should. And above all I won't vote for any Christian party, because I think religion has nothing to do with politics anymore (at least it should be like this in my opinion).
The ten commandments may be the basis of the rights in European countries - that's right, I guess. And I think that is one of the few good things the church brought along. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages naturally. In the beginning the church was advanced and gave people ideas how to live together in communities and so on. But in my opinion from the Middle Ages on the church was more and more oldfashioned and too stubborn about this. They also became mendacious and greedy for might and proberty. From that point on the intention of the commandments wasn't followed anymore. And the people from church still claim that they're infallible and always do the right thing - I think this is the worst crime ever.
:shock: Uhm... at least I could say, that I don't live here without thinking. :lol: ;)
:oops: And naturally this is all just about my opinion - feel free to agree or disagree and sorry for that long (and maybe boring) post, haha.
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No need to be sorry I had my fun reading it :lol:
Oh I mostly agree to you. It's just that people follow christian rules, even though they claim to be free from christianity.
I mean, if you thought about the christian basis and you accepted it for yourself as what you regard as good, then i don't have any problem with that!
but I think it's important to think about whether the human rights, or what we regard as base for peace and liberty, is really the most perfect system and whether have to force every other country and religion to accept that.
Most people don't waste any thoughts on that one. Every country has to accept those christian rules to become part of the United Nations and I just don't think it's right to suppress every other ethic structure like that.
Maybe what we do is right and it will bring more peace and happiness, but it's not for sure. We could go into the absolutely wrong way.
I just wish people would start to think about what we regard as "good" whether it's christian or not...
actually i would say, most people in the modern states believe in what they like to, but only a few get that we live in states that are embossed by the christian religion. I'm not saying that is necessarily bad
and you're so right about the christian party :x
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Sorry (http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1501&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=religion&start=0) :P
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Sorry (http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1501&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=religion&start=0) :P
wtf wtf and i looked so closely :cry:
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I'm sort of like you Sirimono, I was baptised and had all the rest forced upon me from a young age (Irish catholics, ugh), but I never believed in any of it particularly, not even in the existance of a god. So at around 12 I stopped going to church and haven't been back since. Thinking about all those Sundays I spent in church listening to some old guy talk about the same shit (that might not even be true) every single year makes me angry, I don't think people should be baptised as baby's, sure its a good way to teach morals and stuff like that to kids but you can bring up kids well without religion, I don't trust it.
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I'm a baptised... atheist. :D
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I'm part agnostic, part atheist I guess. Probably the same as Hollywood's skeptical agnosticism XD.
I was never baptised myself, but I spent most of my life at Christian catholic schools so I was rather the odd one out =D.
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I'm part agnostic, part atheist I guess. Probably the same as Hollywood's skeptical agnosticism XD.
Probably so. ;) With me, I'm practically atheist, though I can't personally rule out the potential that there could be some "stuff out there" which I don't know about or understand. I generally take a scientific worldview, but "the scientific worldview" is constantly redefining itself (as it should) when new facts are discovered and new theories are made. After all, we used to think the world was flat. :P So I don't rule out the possibility that there may come a day when things that currently seem like science-fiction or mysticism could be discovered to be factual. Other dimensions, for example-- I'm generally skeptical but have read some interesting theories on this one, so you never know, maybe there will come a day when we take this as fact. Certainly there's a lot of stuff that we haven't yet discovered about the world we live in.
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................... Certainly there's a lot of stuff that we haven't yet discovered about the world we live in.
And it's such a pity, that human life is so short... >.> I'd like to see new discoveries. But I guess it will take some time.
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Like I mentioned in a different topic here, I was raised Jewish (Reform Judaism to be exact). It was forced on me by my family like crazy, though. X_x
But I'm really kind of on the borderline between Agnostic and Atheist (another Skeptical Agnostic I guess? XD), and pretty much always have been.
I have nothing against Jewish people, or people who choose to follow any other religion for that matter, and I respect their beliefs, but religion is just not my thing at all. Not to mention I'm kind of bitter about having it forced on me for so many years. XD"
Again, like Hollywood, the worst thing about religion for me is the fanatics who try to force it on everyone around them, especially due to my personal experience with that. X_x
And I agree with VioletCamicat about rock n' roll and the power of music! =D
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i was baptised and confirmed but the confirmation was just "something you do" in catholic schools nowadays, personally i think there is something but not in the form of organised religion or anything like that!
i think its just somethin you find out yourself, not "guided" to it as the catholics say they do.
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Atheist
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I simply like to say that I have no religious affiliation. I was raised without religion and have too, been skeptical but I like the art that it has inspired, just from an artistic point of view.
Again, like Hollywood, the worst thing about religion for me is the fanatics who try to force it on everyone around them, especially due to my personal experience with that. X_x
...yeah I live in Salt Lake City, UT and have had that done to me pretty much all my life, I've looking into religion but decided to not convert to anything and got outcasted. Its sad because religion is something that an either bring many people together and it also can divide so many, I think we should all at least accept eachother.
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I don't believe that the bones of the dinosaurs are fake and that we didn't develope from the apes.
You are quite wrong here if you believe so... We didn't develop from the apes, we and the apes had common ancestors, but the species split up. This is the best chart I found right now, but I can get a better one from my biology textbook by tomorrow if you want :) :
(http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter34/34-apechart.gif)
...It's just that people follow christian rules, even though they claim to be free from christianity...
Have you considered that some peoples rules might just match with most of the Christian rules... I, for example, am not a Christian at all, but I do think that it's wrong to kill, steal, etc... Christianity is known for taking things that people already have and presenting them as their own so the people will accept Christianity better. For example, Jesus was born basically on winter solstice... And many other Christian holidays are from other religions...
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Have you considered that some peoples rules might just match with most of the Christian rules... I, for example, am not a Christian at all, but I do think that it's wrong to kill, steal, etc...
I agree with this in the sense that I don't believe someone needs to be a religious follower to be a good person. Not to say people who follow religion are automatically bad, or vice-versa, but I don't think religion is the only factor in a person's morals/sense of right and wrong.
For example, even though I am not religious, I still do my best to be respectful and even kind to others, sometimes going out of my way to be nice (especially when it comes to X Japan). XD" Like Hypno said, I also believe it's wrong to kill or steal. And I've always been straightedge, too- I've never smoked or done drugs, and while I've tried alcohol, I've never been drunk (nor have I intended to) and I don't even like the taste of most of the drinks I've tried anyway (too bitter!). X_x I won't stop people who do choose to drink/smoke/whatever, but it's just not my thing. o.o
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I don't believe that the bones of the dinosaurs are fake and that we didn't develope from the apes.
You are quite wrong here if you believe so... We didn't develop from the apes, we and the apes had common ancestors, but the species split up. This is the best chart I found right now, but I can get a better one from my biology textbook by tomorrow if you want :) :
(http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter34/34-apechart.gif)
Dammit! Sander! You know how I meant it! XD
Okay okay... then the homo sapiens sapiens and all the apes have the same origin. Hell... of course those apes also developed.
Smart-ass! :P
...It's just that people follow christian rules, even though they claim to be free from christianity...
Have you considered that some peoples rules might just match with most of the Christian rules... I, for example, am not a Christian at all, but I do think that it's wrong to kill, steal, etc... Christianity is known for taking things that people already have and presenting them as their own so the people will accept Christianity better. For example, Jesus was born basically on winter solstice... And many other Christian holidays are from other religions...
Aye aye! Second that about the killing/stealing/etc....
There are several religions very similar Christianity - but way older than Christianity.
I think the Zeitgeist movie explains it pretty good. :D
one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw)
two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc-mrJf45Hg)
three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjAegPhQOUg)
(This all together is the first part of the movie - there are two others about WTC+war and uh... about the federal reserve.)
So... yeah... ask, who the Christians followed..? :P
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I'v seen Zeitgeist :P First part was the only one that wasn't a bit TOO conspiracy-theory for me :P
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My fathers let me choose(baptzim, or whatever) when I was a child, they aren't religious at all. I said no at that time, religions are not my cup of tea. I'm more related to atheism, nowadays. Although I try to stay away from extremist attitudes. In the end, who can prove that there's somekind of god, gods or mother earth or that there isn't? These still are very metaphysical matters, which makes them very difficult to prove or refute. Sometimes it's funny/sad to see how some religions try to use the reason, even science sometimes, to prove that their divinity exists.
Here's a graphic I think you'd find interesting, its the results of an study made by Pitzer:
(http://www.kirainet.com/images/religiones.gif)
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God, I can actually believe that about Sweden.
We're so non-believing here XD
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And Estonia in the top ten :D Glad to see that.
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I'm ok with German's rank ^^ i mean... "wir sind papst" (we are pope) it could've been worse
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Slovakia sucks... >.>
*moving to Czech or Japan* XD
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Uhm... maybe I'll be stupid now, but: What the heck is the difference between non-religious and atheist?! :shock:
I'v seen Zeitgeist :P First part was the only one that wasn't a bit TOO conspiracy-theory for me :P
Same here! :P The religion-part is indeed the most interesting one!
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Uhm... maybe I'll be stupid now, but: What the heck is the difference between non-religious and atheist?! :shock:
i would say non-religious means that you believe your own stuff, that is not part of a religion
while atheist means you don't believe into anything at all
i would tag myself as non-religious, because i can't say i believe into nothing. I left the athetistic thing behind me, i think it's plainly silly actually :P
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Okay - then I didn't call me the wrong way at least... thanx. XD
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ATHEISM:
1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or god
I'm an atheist... yet I tend to say gods instead of God... >.> imho it's more fun to have more gods than one... XD
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ATHEISM:
imho it's more fun to have more gods than one... XD
No
No
No
Even if you believe or don't,seriously here you're forced to learn seriously too many shit about those infamous 12 gods.That spam is NO fun T____________T
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I'm an atheist... yet I tend to say gods instead of God... >.> imho it's more fun to have more gods than one... XD
Haha, yes! Like in the old Roman or Greek culture - or Hindu and so on. One allmighty guy is really too far from reality in my opinion.
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I'm an atheist... yet I tend to say gods instead of God... >.> imho it's more fun to have more gods than one... XD
Haha, yes! Like in the old Roman or Greek culture - or Hindu and so on. One allmighty guy is really too far from reality in my opinion.
old Roman and Greek culture was wonderful! The gods with all their faults and pervness....
I like the shintoism. So many gods to chose from and if it's not enough, you can make up your own ^^ i think the temples are kinda open for everyone and whatever they believe in? at least i heard that
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I like the shintoism. So many gods to chose from and if it's not enough, you can make up your own ^^
^^ Yes, I like it too!
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Slovakia sucks... >.>
*moving to Czech or Japan* XD
America's even worse. ;_; Over 90% of the people here follow a religion according to that chart. o.o Though that doesn't surprise me, it's still kind of sad. =(
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Officially I'm a protestant but I don't care in our/their believe really.. I think I don't believe in anything ;)
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I'm an atheist... yet I tend to say gods instead of God... >.> imho it's more fun to have more gods than one... XD
The gods with all their faults and pervness....
Haha!!That made me fall off my chair XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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Im a
Christian.
I hardly go to Church though... Only at Xmas because my dad insists so.
I think I'm more of a believer, that is I believe there is a God.
I don't see the point of going for a morning mass, sing songs of praises, pray unanimously the prayers on a piece of paper --- say things that are not really in your heart... and worst of all, do all that when all you want to do is SLEEP.
I would rather --- pray alone in my room, on my bed... pretend that I am sleeping but actually praying to God, things that I know He knows already --- but rant on anyway. At least I am being true to what I am saying and doing.
For me my church is my home... Most of all my heart. As long as there is belief inside me and the people with me, then we are a church. It doesn't have to be in a real building or church --- whatever, even a desert can be a church.
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Pinku, as Christians, we should fellowship with others in order to grow...
I was raised in both the Quaker (Friends) Church and as a "Freewill" Baptist. I'm more Quaker but also like to attend First Baptist Churches.
For those who are Atheist, you cannot deny there had to be some Celestial Being(s) create the universe
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Well, I'm Atheist, and I have been for a few years now. I told myself I was agnostic for a while, but that's because it was kind of a confusing time when I chose to convert from Christianity to Atheism, haha. Now, I'm much happier than I ever was.
For those who are Atheist, you cannot deny there had to be some Celestial Being(s) create the universe
Yes, I can. Considering that is what Atheism is: denying God/esses(s) or higher powers. I believe in the Big Bang. ;)
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For those who are Atheist, you cannot deny there had to be some Celestial Being(s) create the universe
Of course they can XD
I, myself am unsure though ... I am somehow free for everything. But what I would never ever believe in was some specific god or several gods. I mean, religion is interesting. All the different histories of creation all over the world ... But people who take it literally? I mean, maybe there is some god or whatever, but I am pretty sure this is nothing we know of ... how could we? There are so many religions with hundreds of different gods ... and I am sure that no religion is able to "identify" the REAL existing being.
I have absolutely no idea if anybody understood what i was saying XD
I believe in nothing and anything ... On the one hand I do believe in science ... that what we think are emotions are chemical reactions of our body, etc. But on the other hand I also WANT to believe that this is not everything. I am romantic and so I do 'believe' in some kind of spirit too. Something that makes each person individual and that survives the body's death. Also this sounds very kitschy and it's really more a want to bleieve than what i really believe in the end XD The imagination is just way better for me and less discouraging, if you know what I mean xD I think that many many people do this secretly. I mean, who seriously wants to think about death as "I just die, my brain is dead, my heart stops beating and the world around me just vanishes. Then there is NOTHING". Nobody even can imagine this seriously (if i try to imagine how this feels I just can't and I get panic. We can't imagine the state of "not being" and this is scary ...)
I believe that everybody should have his/her own religion somehow. Following the guidelines of some institution, going to pray there, etc. ... that's nothing for me actually, though I believe in christan values. But I don't believe that someone should guide me or tell me what to believe in detail, etc.
I know my post is bad structured and confusing, I apologize XD *goes and plays FF* XD
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I'm an atheist. :P
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For those who are Atheist, you cannot deny there had to be some Celestial Being(s) create the universe
Have to agree with the posters above, Yes We Can! ;D
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Pinku, as Christians, we should fellowship with others in order to grow...
I was raised in both the Quaker (Friends) Church and as a "Freewill" Baptist. I'm more Quaker but also like to attend First Baptist Churches.
For those who are Atheist, you cannot deny there had to be some Celestial Being(s) create the universe
Okay, first of all, organized religion doesn't work for everyone. Sure, some people get a feeling of community from it and enjoy it- good for them. But then there's people like me who really don't find any meaning or significance in it. To borrow a quote from Pinku, because I couldn't have said this better myself, "I don't see the point of going for a morning mass, sing songs of praises, pray unanimously the prayers on a piece of paper --- say things that are not really in your heart... and worst of all, do all that when all you want to do is SLEEP." I also agree with her that you don't have to go to a church or temple or any other place of worship to be a "true" follower of a religion.
As for the rest of what you've said, you're entitled to believe what you want, however, one thing that really bothers me is when people try to force their beliefs on others. By saying "as Christians, we should..." you're implying that you think all Christians have to do things the exact same way, with no room for free will or free-thinking. If someone wants to be part of an organized religious group, that's one thing, but nobody should ever have to feel forced into it. To put things in perspective, how would you feel, as a Christian, if someone told you that from now on you had to attend services for another religion and follow their ways?
Also, telling Atheists that they "cannot deny" that there is a higher power is another case of forcing beliefs on others. You're basically telling us that we HAVE to think the same way you do. You don't have to change your beliefs, but we don't have to follow them either.
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I'm sure it wasn't meant in a bad way...
Perhaps it's just a product of bafflement on her part.
Someone who really believes, must find it hard to understand people who don't.
As for me, I love that there's so many people here with different beliefs.
I like hearing about the various ways people see the world.
I didn't mean it in an antagonistic way. I still, myself cannot fathom how the universe was created. It's an amazing thought, how there can be distinct things.... Science, Religion, Big Bang... Wow...
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I don't believe in any religion at this moment. I won't completely deny the possibility of some higher existance, but I do doubt it.
I find it quite logical that religion eventually was invented in order to build working societies; to allow some early form of laws. Threats about eternally burning after death. What else would make primitive and uneducated people suddenly obey someone else?
But now.. In the world of today, isn't it possible that religion makes unfortunate people accept bad conditions?
USA is actually a good example. It's not only the most religious of the developed countries, but also the richest country in the world - and that by far - yet still holds higher poverty numbers than any other developed country.
Compare with Scandinavia. The societal rules may originate from christianity, but right now it's probably the least religious area in the world. It also holds some of the world's lowest poverty rates, and the lowest income inequalities. Japan is also one of the less religious countries, and the same pattern applies. Isn't it quite possible that adapting to a world without religion makes people set higher demands instead of putting their trust in a higher being?
Religions may make many people more content with their lives, but do they really make the world a better place?
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--- no more religion for me ---
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For those who are Atheist, you cannot deny there had to be some Celestial Being(s) create the universe
Yes we can. Why couldn't we? Because no one understands exactly how the universe was born or how it works? If we can't truly understand how the universe works, it doesn't mean that it has to be done by something celestial. Read some astronomy, cosmology etc. and maybe you one day will grasp our insignificance in this universe too. And I don't think it's a bad thing, rather fascinating and comforting.
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stuff
other stuff
(http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/slowpoke.gif) :P
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stuff
other stuff
(http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/slowpoke.gif) :P
Nice penis m8 666.
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well, i'll keep it short and sweet, all my family is christian, i was babtised, and i belive in god.
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I was chatholic till I started to attend catholic school, now I just belive in god and think that religions are world's largest corporations and mafia.
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I thought I had replied here, but I guess I didn't :|
http://books.google.com/books?id=3DleEBtCDxsC&pg=PA5
This will explain :)
Good read actually.
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That text does look interesting but I don't think it can keep up my attention for that long in the PC....^^;;
Hmm..let me see...what do -I- believe in.
I was raised as a Christian Orthodox and even though I was never a hmm..'die hard fan', there was a time (when I was younger) that I could say that I did believe in this.
Then as I was growing up I realised that religions are useless. If there is a God (or more than one) or any other celestial being then religions are just there to help people express their views and/or feelings towards that being. It's how they perceive it to be and not how it actually is. I guess.
In the end I also decided that not believing anywhere at all, kind of scares me. I don't like believing that a higher power from above controls my life, my choices, my destiny etc but I also don't much like believing that after death I become 'nothing' and that there is no one to turn to when I'm desperate/scared etc.
Basically, my vague belief that a higher being might exist is there mostly by choice...^^;;;
As far as religions go...I think that paganistic and polytheistic ones are a lot more interesting and beautiful...too bad no one really practices them around me...^^;;
I find Christianism, Islam and other such big religions to be highly depressing, repressing, restricting and overall...hmm...uninspiring..I guess.
Or well, tha's simply the impression I get...it's not as if I have researched them or anything.
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I just must write something to this topic. I hope this ain't gonna be too long...
I've been atheist whole my life. Of course I didn't realize it when I was a child, but later on I've understood what those feelings were back then. I never got the point of prayers and never had the feeling that there's some invisible power or force that had created life and is guiding my life. Although I was raised Christian in principle, I have never believed in any of that stuff.
It was a bit of a shock to my family (well, mom) when I announced that I've seceded from the church (I did that as soon as it was possible without parents' permission). I encountered some prejudice, like I must be a satan worshipper since I seceded from the church. That's laughable. How could I believe in satan if I didn't believe in god o_O
Well, anygays, that's my story. I must admit that I also hold some prejudice against certain type of religious people and don't enjoy their company. I have quite harsh opinions about religion, but I'm not gonna get into those, because I don't want to offend anyone.
If I believe in some power, it's the power of nature. It's amazing how this complex system, universe, has come to exist. I know that in this point many would say it's an act of god. I think that human is just too simple to understand this vast system and its delicacy. And too arrogant to admit that it isn't the master of the universe. The thruth is that we are but tiny bits in our universe, not the centre of it.
Whoa, that did get a bit long. Sorry ^^
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Yeah that's well said. That's how I look at it for the most part.
Then I asked myself the question: Is there a supernatural power -- an arbitrary mind -- an enthroned God -- a supreme will that sways the tides and currents of the world -- to which all causes bow?
I do not deny. I do not know -- but I do not believe. I believe that the natural is supreme -- that from the infinite chain no link can be lost or broken -- that there is no supernatural power that can answer prayer -- no power that worship can persuade or change -- no power that cares for man.
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I for one have this theory that religion was created for people to have something to believe in and something to fear. Godfearing people tend to believe that the world is going to end if they do something wrong. Sacrifices and rituals. I believe in the Wiccan ways as well as reincarnation and powers of the mind. I also have a belief that mythical creatures once existed (such as dragons, nymphs, trolls, goblins, gnomes, blah blah blah ect...). I also believe in ghosts and anything paranormal. So pretty much to me, anything is possible. I believe in so much my mind is literally....out there. I'm not a person who believes in the ideals of the Christian. They seem to outcast what they think is impossible. Yeah sure I do things that most religious people would call me a witch for. I do what's right by my heart, and I do what's right by my beliefs. Really it's all ethics and morales.
Honestly, it's not about your group of religion, it's about your heart, what you think and feel is the right thing to do.
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This topic apparently keeps me talking for ever and ever. Sorry mates :) But it's good that we can talk abour these kinds of things also, because these sre quite personal matters for everyone.
Believing in god(s) is a very deep psychological issue and I'm not saying that I'm an expert of it, quite the contrary. But I see that believing in god gives people the feeling of security that is a basic need for functional psyche. Non-believers have other methods to handle this need of security but in my opinion many people tend to cling to religion when they have troubled times or face a crisis. It gives them comfort to feel that they're not alone with their troubles.
Hmm, maybe I'll stop here before it gets too long and confusing :-X
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I am First Nations. there is no 'name' for our religion. We call it "Walking the Red Road"
I believe in what has been proven to me. Life beyond death, what others call 'spirits' we call 'Grandfathers' and 'Grandmothers'. What others call 'God' we call 'Creator'.
However it is not the same as the Christian or Catholic 'God'...ours is very different. He is not a jealous God, he is a forgiving one.
There is life after death, punishment for wrongdoings, and reward for right. However when we graduate to that point, we are not the same beings. we are not body, or human, but something stronger and wiser. We live many lives and it is our souls that survive not necessarily us...It's actually kind of confusing! LOL
I have seen, heard, and experienced miracles and beings beyond scientific explanation. Some are good, but at the same time some can be very horrifying. I have stories *shutter*
I don't believe that the suffering and darkness of this world is proof of God's inexistance, but is in fact proof of humanities existance. We created everything around us, and it is the Grandfather's position to help us correct it. Not to correct it themselves. It's our mess.
*deleted*
Until the birth of Catholosism homosexuality was excepted widely by almost every known religion including our own. It's stupid to believe that it's wrong or a choice.
Every country, and being in this world was given thier own religion, and they should continue to follow thier own path despite anyone's misconceptions.
Freedom and Free will is a right, not an excuse.
Everyone has a right to believe what they want, even if they believe in nothing at all.
No matter how many times I listen to it, evertime I hear 'Tears' by XJAPAN I always end up with watery eyes...THAT I can't explain
I'm sorry if offended anyone.
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I am First Nations. (...) I have seen, heard, and experienced miracles and beings beyond scientific explanation.
This is really the first time I have heard of this term or religious belief. Would it be too much to ask for the sharing of one of the stories that you experienced? I am quite interested.
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I am First Nations. (...) I have seen, heard, and experienced miracles and beings beyond scientific explanation.
This is really the first time I have heard of this term or religious belief. Would it be too much to ask for the sharing of one of the stories that you experienced? I am quite interested.
Me too, actually.
I've always been interested in other cultures and beliefs.
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I am First Nations. (...) I have seen, heard, and experienced miracles and beings beyond scientific explanation.
This is really the first time I have heard of this term or religious belief. Would it be too much to ask for the sharing of one of the stories that you experienced? I am quite interested.
Okay...hmmm...you can email me if you want some serious details. For example :P A few years ago my mother was diagnosed with a tumor on her womb. She part took in a religious ceremony and went to see a medicine man. After that she went back the doctor and was told her tumor was gone... :D
Another is I had a cousin in the states who was in a car accident, she was a complete vegetable when me and my parents went down to see her. The doctors told my uncle that she would never wake up, and even if she did her brain was damaged. My uncle is an elder as well as a Medicine Man. He told my dad that the doctors are not Creator, and they don't control this world. My uncle took my cousin through 4 different ceremonies, and the next time we went down, she was walking around and talking like nothing had happened!
When I get sick I always get it in my throat, so I can barely swallow, it feels like sandpaper. But anyway I was sick one night and I was lying in bed, I couldn't sleep to save my life because of the pain, not to mention my nose was plugged and it was hard to breath through my mouth. But anyway, I always lock my door at night because my younger sister has a habit of sneaking into my room and sleeping with me. So I desperatly trying to sleep and suffering at the same time when suddenly someone blew on the back of my neck. It was hard like when your putting out a flame. Then I didn't care about the pain because I was scared shitless... lol. But that didn't matter because after that I heard a humming noise before I fell asleep. The next morning I woke up completly healthy.
There's a few, but if you'd like to hear more...email me. Later!
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My people learned first hand the suffering and wrongdoings of the Christian religion, in residential schools and the 'purification of the lands' by raping, murdering, and kidnapping millions of people believed to be savages and godless. Our way of life was even outlawed, from our religion to our spoken language.
Dispite the bitterness of my people for these atrocities, I place my blame in those who wrote the Bible.
The Bible itself has been re-written many times since it's first publishment and is most likely nothing what Jesus wanted to be heard and done by those he lead.
I'm sorry, but that is bullshit. They were murdered by people using christianity for their own goals, like to increase their wealth or whatever. You make it sound like a devout christian nowadays should repent for another man's sins. And would you happen to have any sources regarding how many times the bible was, as you claim, rewritten? As far as I know that isn't common knowledge.
And not to sound disrepectful, but when someone's brain is blown to pieces praying, performing a ceremony or saying mass isn't going to do anything.
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Okay...
They were murdered by people using christianity for their own goals, like to increase their wealth or whatever.
I was giving ONE example. Yes, there were many people of the past and of the present who used religion for thier own gain. It was used to murder my people so that European countries could aution our land and use our natural resources since they used most of thier own. It was used to brainwash our children into thinking they DESERVED what they were given and that we were heathens, godless, and going to burn in hell...
I know people used and still do use the church and the cross for thier own political, personal, and financial gain and it's disgusting as it continues today on reservations FAR from the media or the world's eye. And on other parts of the world.
You make it sound like a devout christian nowadays should repent for another man's sins.
I don't recall saying that man today should repay for the pasts mistakes. In fact my point was that the wrong doings in the past ARE NOT to be placed on the people of today. Maybe except for those who continue to madly cling to thier beliefs and use it to harm others.
And would you happen to have any sources regarding how many times the bible was, as you claim, rewritten? As far as I know that isn't common knowledge.
I'm well aware of the fact that it's not common knowledge...even though there are several different Bibles used by several diffrent branches of this religion.
However to quote as specific line that was rewritten several times is in the King James bible. It went from "Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live" to "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."
The original Hebrew text was not male nor female inclusive, and spoke of herbalists who used poison to kill for money – and ancient hit-man, if you will. It turned to fit the times, which at this time of change was the prosacution of wiccans.
If you wish you can study the subject yourself, and find your own truth in the matter.
And not to sound disrepectful, but when someone's brain is blown to pieces praying, performing a ceremony or saying mass isn't going to do anything.
You obviously didn't read my last post very well. As I said that the suffering such as your example is not proof of god's inexistance. But is proof of humanities existance, humans are a cruel species and it is thier choice whether or not to blow someone's brain out. As I said a downfall to the free will that Creator has given us.
I also believe it is human's ego that drives him to believe that this time now is our only time that matters. If someone dies for thier belief, and dies praying for it, then
no doubt there is something better waiting for him/her in eternity. And I didn't say that praying would mean a movie miracle such as almost getting shot then being saved. I meant ones such as what happened to my mother and cousin. But I'm not Creator so I don't really know what can happen.
I'm sorry, but that is bullshit.
That's just rude...but at least you apolagized...so I forgive you.
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As an unbeliever it will always be strange reading a religious statement involving any creator or god. So forgive me for not accepting your experience as true just yet. I usually ask a religious person to share his or her stories however because I am still open to anything, and it generally interests me to find out how other peoples beliefs work for them. The religion vs. science war will perhaps be an eternal debate for that matter and it suits me better to stay reticent. Thanks for your stories though!
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I really do believe that not thinking for yourself and just believing what you read, has been a base for many of mankind's stupidest mistakes.
I agree. This is exactly my view until convinced otherwise.
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/clarence_darrow/bible_absurdities.html
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/which_way.html
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I agree with you Ami and xScQ. this is also my view of the bible.
And I do have to say that I find it strange people think other's who are religious don't believe in science. I myself have always believed the Big Bang Theory, and that the egg came before the chicken, not that some mighty being reached down and left a full grown chicken there for the taking...lol. While I have grown up listening to myths and legends, there are some in my view that are a bit pretentious and so I ususally turn to science to answer these questions. However I also believe that science itself was created because the entity that created us foresaw humanities curiousity. The need and want to know.
Religion and science have never been seperate to me, they actually fit together quite well.
I've always loved the legends of Greece and Egypt as well as First Nations myths, but I don't usually take them as fact.
You're welcome for the stories.
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I really liked your stories, so thank you for sharing :)
And would you happen to have any sources regarding how many times the bible was, as you claim, rewritten? As far as I know that isn't common knowledge.
I've always been interested in history, so I have a few facts about this.
As previously said, the bible has continually been a tool, to mean and say what certain individuals wanted it to mean and say.
The first time a "real" bible was put together was only in 382 AD during the famed Council of Rome (under Damascus) where they decided what would go into the bible and what would be omitted. One of the big descisions was choosing which gospels would go in. The ones that were chosen, were obviously picked because they presented the "right" image of the church and Christianity. All the other gospels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels) were rejected. This caused many of them to get lost (although by 382 some were already fragmented or missing) and it made the texts generally accepted as being less worthy and there were even times in history where citing certain gospels (such as the gospel of Judas) was a high form of heresy.
Throughout history the bible has been copied (often by hand), translated, rewritten etc so that nowadays there are many different versions of the bible floating around, that I'll just post a link with a pretty complete list of the editions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_Bible_translations). The most used being The Authorised King James Version, The New King James Version, The New International Version, and others. To be clear, this is about the English versions of the bible alone... If you were to include other languages, the list would be pretty impressive.
This last part in my opnion only. If people were to take the bible as a book with beautiful stories that can inspire faith in religious people, than that's fine. But if you take it literally, then that's when you start creating a lot of problems... The bible isn't a sience book and yet there are many people out there who take whatever version they have and truly believe God and/or Jezus said this or that. Not only does that create problems between them and people who aren't christian, but even christians end up fighting over who has the right words of God in their book.
I may be going a little far here, as I am not christian, and I don't mean to discriminate. But I really do believe that not thinking for yourself and just believing what you read, has been a base for many of mankind's stupidest mistakes.
First, about the "rejected gospels", at the time when the bible was put together there were a few gospels around of which many were written long after the eye wittnesses were all dead which doesn't make them very trustworthy. So what they did was to choose four gospels, that were all written when eye witnesses were still around, and have these as standards cause they were the most trustworthy. So really no "choosing of the ones fitting the catholic church the best". More like neglecting the ones written over hundreds of years after Jesus' death and resurrection. So choosing the most trustworthy.
Secondly, sure - mistakes can be made while copying books - but comparsions have been made between really old versions of the bible (from the old testament in caves in Israel if I remember correctly) and versions from a couple of hundred of years later and newer and newer, and they have found that the differences aren't really as many as you'd think! The were actually really good at copying books.
About how to read the bible. Different people have different ways of looking at this. For most people it has to be either a book of fairytales or a book of science. BUT, what mustn't be forgotten is that the bible is a book that is written to be read in all times. Not just 1000 years ago, but also today. If it had been written only to be read today it would have been written differently - and the same if it was ment to only have been read 1000 years ago. It's a book to be read by all kinds of people and therefore it's written in the way it's written.
Unfortunately, christianity has been used for peoples own interests and loads of bad stuff. The focus has unfortunately been taken from core of the christian faith more than once - which is not fair! Even though people have done bad stuff in it's name - the core is still the same. God himself came down as a man and died for our sins. Everyone of us are sinners in the need of God's mercy. Jesus Christ is our savior and the only way to God. Whatever bad has been done in the name of christianity - it's all really about putting your faith in Jesus that he will forgive your sins so that we may have new life in him after we have died.
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First, about the "rejected gospels", at the time when the bible was put together there were a few gospels around of which many were written long after the eye wittnesses were all dead which doesn't make them very trustworthy. So what they did was to choose four gospels, that were all written when eye witnesses were still around, and have these as standards cause they were the most trustworthy. So really no "choosing of the ones fitting the catholic church the best". More like neglecting the ones written over hundreds of years after Jesus' death and resurrection. So choosing the most trustworthy.
You make a good point here. Many other gospels were rejected because they couldn't be trusted, but then the 4 gospels we know today were also not that believable as a source of facts. As always, anyone can find faith in them, if that's what you seek.
The gospel according to Mark, which supposedly is the earliest, was written (guessed to be written) around 70AD. This was followed by the gospels of Matthew and Luke, written probably sometime between 70AD and 100AD. And John's was probably the last one written, at the end of the century.
There is a high possibility that Mark's, Matthew's and Luke's gospels share a common source, or that the later two, were based partialy on Mark. The reasoning being that there are just too many similar passages. Either way, most people during the time couldn't write, so until the stories were written down, they were most likely passed by word of mouth. And that likely made the stories undergo small, but frequent alterations, until it was probably hard to tell what had been added, and what had not.
Also, if you think of it, the writers of these gospels were early christians, at the time that christianity was expanding. The whole point of the gospels was to inspire people to believe in Jezus and to join the faith. The tools of almost all religious writers at the time was to include symbolic elements, such as magical numbers, places, dates etc. The romans, whom the gospels for a large part were for, as that's the birth place of early christianity, were used to these symbolisms, from their own beliefs, and it's logical that when trying to teach a faith, you use the right words for your listeners.
Another last interesting fact: The 4 canonical gospels were originally untitled and anonymous until 180AD when suddenly they were given the names that we now know them by. So it's possible that some of the gospels may have been written by Jezus's actual disciples, but perhaps that too, is just to inspire faith.
The four gospels were actually used very early on by the early christians! What about them makes them not as believable as a source of fact? And just as with the rest of the bible they are not written as a collection of facts but as testimonies.
The writer of the gospel of Mark is according to the tradition the assistant of Peter (since he probably couldn't write as he was only a fisherman), and Mark himself is mentioned in at least one (don't know how many) of Pauls letters in the new testament. But writing the gospels were probably sort of a "plan B" since most of the early christian leaders were absolutely sure that Christ was to return during their lifetime - eg Paul.
The "small frequent alterations" are things I've never heard of but it's easy to imagine that such a thing could happen. Though most of the stories were passed on by the disciples while teaching and preaching and since a lot of people that were around Jesus still were around when the gospels were brought to use any big and vivid "alterations" would probably have been corrected by one of the christian leaders e g Paul who frequently wrote letters to the different christian parishes.
About the dates - they are very disputed and some things point on the fact that they are written earlier than you say. Which only makes it more likely that disciples and eyewitnesses were still around.
About how the gospels were written - can all to well have been affected by where where they were written and to whom it was ment to reach. E g I heard that the gospel of John was written to for the greeks - and that's just logical but has more to do with what style of writing you use and not the content of what you write (eg the beginning of the gospel of John talks of the word - logogs - a very important thing to the filosofical greeks). You don't write a children's book with buraucratic text and you don't write an instruction manual with children's lanugage - but you don't change the actual content.
But one must also take into concideration that the christians were persecuted by the romans, and trying to spread the gospel was a thing you did with a high risk for your life.
And about the names - I've never heard that they didn't get their names until then. I have heard though of earlier accounts of the names of the gospels so I guess that's disputable. But it's not that long a time though ca 100 years. And I guess the names of the authors weren't the most important thing, but at least there must have been a traditional knowledge of who wrote which!
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I am First Nations.
Did you catch Ray Mears' Northern Wilderness? It's about the fur trades and knowledge of the First Nations in and around the Boreal forrest. It's really interesting!
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My goodness, this is a little hard for me to understand, for I am still a little too young to understand these things. I, am catholic. Just recently, the place I live in recieved a relic of Mary Magdelene's bone, that is what they say. It came from.....France I think. I am not sure if it really is her bone or not. Thousands of people came and prayed for her. They knelt down and kissed the relic, which was in a case. Human bones.....from a person that lived over 2000 years ago.....I also watched a TV special where Sister Lucia from Portugal encountered the Virgin Mary when she was a young girl. She said that there were 3 secrets or something. Um.......Something about....."If the world does not stop offending my son(Jesus Christ),...." And I forgot the rest. The 3 secrets happened to be bad things, like war and the like. The first one might've been World War I, the second might've been World War II. The third,.....could be the near outbreak of nuclear destuction. Something about Cuba and communism. It said the the Book of Revelation that a third of the stars were gone. A third of everything was gone...A third of the world was ruled by communism.....All of this I just learned of last night. Um...So I am catholic, and I believe in the God Almighty.
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I am First Nations.
Did you catch Ray Mears' Northern Wilderness? It's about the fur trades and knowledge of the First Nations in and around the Boreal forrest. It's really interesting!
I see it around, but don't really watch it...
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i am a christian, but i am like the most non-christian christian you'll ever meet. i believe in god, but i rarely go to church, i don't pray, i occasionally say the lord's name in vain (it slips out; i don't do it on purpose!) and the only part of the bible i read is revelations...
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I have a really deep meaning about religion in general but tbh I don't want to share it. Let me just drop two lines:
Do I believe in god? No.
Do I think there is a good? Well, I don't know.