question : did sugizo really play hide part of guitar?

[nb]

During the 2009 crisis with Heath, him and Yoshiki said in different interviews that 'kept rehearsing for the upcoming concerts', but each one alone with recordings. Is never the same thing as everyone working together.

did i missed something? the 2009 crisis? Or is it about Drachenschildkröte Toshi (sorry, it's german^^) left HoH?

[Joker]

so then why is it so confusing to you guys that they used a lot of hide recordings in the beginning when they had a new member who hasn't yet adjusted to band dynamics and learnt all the songs yet? Sugizo has now enough experience with X, and that's why the acoustic rehearsals could go smoothly too. He knows the songs by now so it's easier for him and for the others too to convert that to acoustic settings. Imagine you already have several bands you perform with, you have  a gazillion solos, and then suddenly you need to also learn a completely new set of songs, too. Amd X concerts are incredibly long, it's not like they play 7 songs and wrap up My opinion is still that no matter how professional Sugizo is, he also needed time and practice to master the songs for his X Japan performances. Hence the hide backing tracks in the beginning.

So, the discussion at the time was: if the reason why they keep using hide recording is because Sugizo isn't ready yet, is better not to play than making him appear only to play power chords and avoid ridiculous stuff like Lollapalooza, on which he turned to Yoshiki while the playback solos played because there was no more hide footage on the screens (due the Hiroshi lawsuit and stuff). Until the European tour there was still some songs using playback, like Kurenai on Netherlands, where Sugizo simply sat on the piano bench while the playback was going, again without any visual clue.

The first songs that Sugizo really played the solo was the most dificult ones they have been playing since the reunion, btw. I still think there is no relation between "Sugizo wasn't ready for it" and the playbacks. I still think it was just to milk more money from hide legacy. If it wasn't there wouldn't be the lawsuit and that clusterfuck between Yoshiki and Hiroshi (who are now best friends, after enough money).

So there is no reason for today they still use hide's voice on Week End and his guitar tracks in Art of Life like they still do.

Taiji's last concert with X was in January 7th 1992. Heath's first concert was in December 30th 1993. Almost two years stopped while X was in their peak. So it wouldn't be hard to stop a while and rehearse enough to avoid playback. That's what professionals should do. But exploiting hide drama is more financially worthy.

[Joker]

During the 2009 crisis with Heath, him and Yoshiki said in different interviews that 'kept rehearsing for the upcoming concerts', but each one alone with recordings. Is never the same thing as everyone working together.

did i missed something? the 2009 crisis? Or is it about Drachenschildkröte Toshi (sorry, it's german^^) left HoH?

After Hong Kong concerts in 2009 there should be concerts in Taiwan and Korea. Taiwan was postponed until May and Korea was cancelled due to Heath's issues. He was in a whole drama wanting to leave X, having issues with his management and once again X management couldn't handle other way than cancelling concerts.

[Teemeah]

 don't see how playing hide playback solos brings in any extra money for X Japan or Yoshiki personally. If anyone is benefiting from using more hide footage (audio or video) is his brother, because he owns hide's rights to his image and also his copyrights. Any royalty that comes in from hide's legacy, goes to LEMONed, owned by Hiroshi. Same with any merch they sell, the hide dolls, the signature guitars, the keychains, whatever that has hide's image printed on it. How does Yoshiki financially get anything out of hide's legacy, when Hiroshi owns everything, tell me please

[YoshToshBGosh]

so then why is it so confusing to you guys that they used a lot of hide recordings in the beginning when they had a new member who hasn't yet adjusted to band dynamics and learnt all the songs yet? Sugizo has now enough experience with X, and that's why the acoustic rehearsals could go smoothly too. He knows the songs by now so it's easier for him and for the others too to convert that to acoustic settings. Imagine you already have several bands you perform with, you have  a gazillion solos, and then suddenly you need to also learn a completely new set of songs, too. Amd X concerts are incredibly long, it's not like they play 7 songs and wrap up My opinion is still that no matter how professional Sugizo is, he also needed time and practice to master the songs for his X Japan performances. Hence the hide backing tracks in the beginning.

You're right, and it's not Sugizos fault, but IMO, there shouldn't be lead guitar coming from playback in a rock'n'roll concert, period. Either you're ready to do it live, or you wait with booking gigs until you freakin' are!
It doesn't really bug me, but by now, they sure seem rehearsed well enough to only keep one hide part as tribute and play the rest live.
They do play more than 7 songs, but not way more, do they? They kinda stretch gigs to 4 hours with endless breaks and solos....I wish they would at least cut the Heath solo. I always skip those when I watch a concert. But that's another story.

don't see how playing hide playback solos brings in any extra money for X Japan or Yoshiki personally.

Yeah, you can call it fan service, but I think they used the hide tracks so heavily for such a long time because they didn't (don't?)  rehearse together often enough to make a full live work, f. e. Sugizo is having this small side project named Luna Sea :-)

[Teemeah]

Heath's acoustic solo was freaking awesome. No, please do not cut that out!

[YoshToshBGosh]

Ok, I'll give that one a chance  Haven't seen it yet

[nb]

During the 2009 crisis with Heath, him and Yoshiki said in different interviews that 'kept rehearsing for the upcoming concerts', but each one alone with recordings. Is never the same thing as everyone working together.

did i missed something? the 2009 crisis? Or is it about Drachenschildkröte Toshi (sorry, it's german^^) left HoH?

After Hong Kong concerts in 2009 there should be concerts in Taiwan and Korea. Taiwan was postponed until May and Korea was cancelled due to Heath's issues. He was in a whole drama wanting to leave X, having issues with his management and once again X management couldn't handle other way than cancelling concerts.

damn.
its the first time i'm hearing this thanks for clearing that up

[nb]

Ok, I'll give that one a chance  Haven't seen it yet

You will not regret it

[nb]

Ah,

i've found this

http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?topic=3327.0

[matsumoto]

I'm by no means proficient enough when it comes to guitar and music in general to judge, so I'm just dropping by to say I really enjoy reading your input, guys. 

IMHO, I lean more towards the monetary/fan thing. Even if X Japan didn't earn anything from rubbing Hide's ghost in the face of each and every fan, his legacy works a bit like a magnet: selling more Hide = selling more X = more overall profit = more crying fangirls = more endless rain, etc.

Teemeah has a point too, though. Being Sugizo is probably not piece of cake. Hide had written his guitar parts himself and performed them a billion times (sporting a billion different haircolours and all kinds of impractical eye rings). Now exit the guy and enter Sugizo, who probably had very limited time to rehearse with all band members plus the occasional WTF guest guitarist. Yep, not easy. At the same time, this is a visual band, I wouldn't be surprised if Yoshiki's priority was the visual/grandiose aspect of it rather than impeccable sound. Hence the WTF guets guitarists, the Violet UK mumbo jumbo, the holograms, the like-sized plushies, the fireworks, the awkward on-stage hugs, the crying like a sissy instead of playing key piano parts, the passing out during drum sequences... it's showbiz my brethern, and our Supreme Leader Yoshiki is the master of showbiz. 

[YoshToshBGosh]

At the same time, this is a visual band, I wouldn't be surprised if Yoshiki's priority was the visual/grandiose aspect of it rather than impeccable sound. Hence the WTF guets guitarists, the Violet UK mumbo jumbo, the holograms, the like-sized plushies, the fireworks, the awkward on-stage hugs, the crying like a sissy instead of playing key piano parts, the passing out during drum sequences... it's showbiz my brethern, and our Supreme Leader Yoshiki is the master of showbiz. 

The impact of the visual aspects of the show relies on a top notch performance and dedication to the music, otherwise it angries the audience and crosses the line between grand gesture and ridiculous towards the latter. But I think Yoshiki is, in general, aware of that.

[LEMONedMe]

X NEVER needed a "3rd guitarist". A band can't be serious using playbacks instead of an alive member playing during 90% of the concert. This hide exploiting should end. Everybody is worried about Toshi being exploited by Masaya, but nobody seems to care about Hiroshi making lots of monnies with hide image.

i totally agree with you, it's disrespectful to hide

I agree with both of you and not only is it disrespectful to hide, it's disrespectful to Sugizo as well.  Imagine knowing or thinking people are there to watch a hologram of someone who is no longer alive and that they might rather watch the hologram then you.  That has to be a major downer.  Musicians are needy people. They need attention, fans and praise.  You can't be praised for not playing and to watch a hologram getting more attention than yourself must be quite a put off.

[LEMONedMe]

of course he does not. this is more like he is totally controlling everything. suddenly its what i ment...

btw pata is a very good guitarplayer. you have to here some of his solo stuff or rain. He usually plays a different musictype

Oh yes, I know Pata is very good.     I pay a lot of attention to his playing.  He's playing blues and I love blues.  It's actually my favorite style. 

[LEMONedMe]

I don't disagree with them keeping some of Hide's recordings. Like it or not (and I sort of like it) Hide has a bit of a sacred status amongst the fans, you don't want to get rid of the awesome stuff he created all that fast.

What bugs me a little is that they sort of underutilise Pata and Sugizo. Pata is an awesome guitarist. He might not be easy to work with, but heck, I cringe very hard everytime Yoshiki mentions recording the riffs himself. Sugizo is also a very interesting musician, wish we could see more of him.

I totally disagree of using playback on a LIVE concert. It breaks all the "feeling" of a LIVE concert.
hide was important, hide was awesome, yada yada... I agree. But unfortunately he is dead. If Yoshiki still wants to do something with X besides inflating his huge ego, he must move on.

It's kinda weird the guitar solo played by nobody in Art of Life, as is Sugizo pretending to sing the backing vocals of Born to be Free and I.V.

Here's a thought, although there is one very famous band doing this right now.  During one very important song in the set, have hide's image projected onto a large screen behind the band and have it be a part he either plays guitar (preferably) or sings or both, for a few minutes of that song.  But just once.  Not multiple songs and not taking away from what Sugizo plays.  Don't have Sugizo leave the stage or turn and face away so people can't see what he is doing but let them all pay respect to hide as he is playing the solo or guitar part of the song that he was so famous for.  Then that's it - resume back to playing as X with Sugizo playing whatever parts he is supposed to be playing or taking over and let him do it in his own way, not trying to force him in any way, to play exactly like hide because that would be difficult and possibly embarrassing.  That way, hide is immortalized in a way and is still remembered as part of X and the great guitarist and writer from X.

Having hide play as an image in many songs would be almost like people paying for a concert, only to watch the whole thing on a screen in a cinema, not live.

[Teemeah]

X Japan had a lot of film gigs back in the day, though which was exactly that, a concert footage projected to people in a music venue.

[LEMONedMe]

I'd have to know the guy better to affirm whether it's all for real or not. Let's not forget that Hide's image and allure are worth kazillions of yen, you don't need to be an exploitative son a of a bitch to realise how lucrative it is to perpetuate the whole thing. Any businessman, even the most human of them all, would jump in at this. And Yoshiki is a darn good businessman. The need to keep up the Hidecraze is probably a blend of emotional attachment and business strategy.

I like Hide very much, just like I like Elvis and Bowie and plenty of other dead people. But I could very much accept a post-Hide X. Though this is not the case for say, 80% of their fans. In the early 2000s I was in contact with fans who told me they still cried over the guy. A bit weird, but hey. Then I went on a long hiatus and when I came back to the fandom, I realised people were still crying over the dude. You should have seen the documentary premiers here, they could have been sponsored by Kleenex. And it's been 20 years, guys. Many of those fans were not even alive in 98. They are literally passionately crying over a dude they never met, who lived a world away, and who died before they were even born. I'm not judging at all, just pointing out how big the whole Hide-thing is. That being said, I agree with Joker's point on the playbacks. They have two highly skilled guitarists there, why not damn use them?

I agree with you on all of this.   As far as Yoshiki is concerned and the passing out at his drums.  That sure does look faked to me.  In other words, it looks intentional.  He's done it in videos or advertisements or whatever.  It does not look real to me at all.  It looks staged as all hell.  And I think it's hype to get people excited and those who buy it, buy it for what it appears to be.  I am sure there's been a time or two when it was real but not all of it - no way. I don't buy it.

As far as Sugizo and Pata playing on stage, live, hell yes! That is what fans really do want to see.  Live guitarists, jamming out or going nuts on stage and they can both do it, and they should.  Maybe some of Sugizo's lackluster attitude is due to not being able to do what he intended to do or what a guitarist does on stage.  I was married to one.  I know what they want and what they need. They need to get up there and play their heads off!

[LEMONedMe]

X Japan had a lot of film gigs back in the day, though which was exactly that, a concert footage projected to people in a music venue.

I'm not saying it correctly, I guess.  I meant going to see a concert that was actually a movie of a concert.  Sorta like Mad Dogs And Englishmen only without the in between scenes of talking with fans, signing autographs and eating dinner. LOL

[matsumoto]

I tend to agree that the stage 'fainting' is fake, or grossly overplayed to say the least (but hey, it adds a cool dramatic element, not saying it sucks). When people actually pass out from exhaustion, it's not a nice thing to see. Have you ever seen what happens when long-distance runners collapse due to hyperventilation/exhaustion? They puke their guts, they have convulsions, they sweat like crazy, they go into a coma and shit themselves and whatnot. All Yoshiki does is very photogenically crawl around on all fours in his flawless stage make up and lie there breathing heavily for the extra sexy effect. Not to say that, from a medical point of view, you're very unlikely to cause extreme damage to your system from a drum solo, unless you have a prexisting heart/lung condition. A very physically fit guy like him (even with all the spine issues) can probably handle a 10min drum solo like most mortals handle an intense gym session. His fit physique sort of makes me think he handles way more intense gym sessions on a daily basis. The heavy breathing is just normal.

[LEMONedMe]

As far as using hide or selling hide merchandise, I ran across this somewhere.  Maybe on here but i don't think so and it's still probably on here, somewhere.  http://www.hide-city.com/

There's more hide stuff on that site than anyone could ever want. LOL.  I am sure that's Hiroshi's doing and the Lemoned Cafe is also featured there as well as a blog and an area to buy food from the cafe via mail order, apparently.  I've never gone through the entire site as there is just too much!

I did subscribe to it, though, because I wasn't sure what I'd get in emails and what the heck. Anyway, even concerts are put on plus celebrations etc.  I am sure Hiroshi must be doing well with all of that if people are buying.

[LEMONedMe]

I tend to agree that the stage 'fainting' is fake, or grossly overplayed to say the least (but hey, it adds a cool dramatic element, not saying it sucks). When people actually pass out from exhaustion, it's not a nice thing to see. Have you ever seen what happens when long-distance runners collapse due to hyperventilation/exhaustion? They puke their guts, they have convulsions, they sweat like crazy, they go into a coma and shit themselves and whatnot. All Yoshiki does is very photogenically crawl around on all fours in his flawless stage make up and lie there breathing heavily for the extra sexy effect. Not to say that, from a medical point of view, you're very unlikely to cause extreme damage to your system from a drum solo, unless you have a prexisting heart/lung condition. A very physically fit guy like him (even with all the spine issues) can probably handle a 10min drum solo like most mortals handle an intense gym session. His fit physique sort of makes me think he handles way more intense gym sessions on a daily basis. The heavy breathing is just normal.

Yep, I agree with all of that.  Add to it, the more or less graceful dragging himself around as though it was a ballet of a sort, done lying on the floor. Hehe.  He does not drop to the floor or go into convulsions and he never goes unconscious, either.  Everything is, as you say, very graceful.  Not buying it. LOL!

[Teemeah]

I tend to agree that the stage 'fainting' is fake, or grossly overplayed to say the least (but hey, it adds a cool dramatic element, not saying it sucks). When people actually pass out from exhaustion, it's not a nice thing to see. Have you ever seen what happens when long-distance runners collapse due to hyperventilation/exhaustion? They puke their guts, they have convulsions, they sweat like crazy, they go into a coma and shit themselves and whatnot. All Yoshiki does is very photogenically crawl around on all fours in his flawless stage make up and lie there breathing heavily for the extra sexy effect. Not to say that, from a medical point of view, you're very unlikely to cause extreme damage to your system from a drum solo, unless you have a prexisting heart/lung condition. A very physically fit guy like him (even with all the spine issues) can probably handle a 10min drum solo like most mortals handle an intense gym session. His fit physique sort of makes me think he handles way more intense gym sessions on a daily basis. The heavy breathing is just normal.

You guys forget that the dude has asthma. It's not because of exhaustion and dehydration that he collapses from, but because he has asthmatic spasms. Nobody here watched the documentary where Toshi explains they used to buy oxygen tanks so Yoshiki could breathe in between sets?

[Teemeah]

As far as using hide or selling hide merchandise, I ran across this somewhere.  Maybe on here but i don't think so and it's still probably on here, somewhere.  http://www.hide-city.com/

There's more hide stuff on that site than anyone could ever want. LOL.  I am sure that's Hiroshi's doing and the Lemoned Cafe is also featured there as well as a blog and an area to buy food from the cafe via mail order, apparently.  I've never gone through the entire site as there is just too much!

I did subscribe to it, though, because I wasn't sure what I'd get in emails and what the heck. Anyway, even concerts are put on plus celebrations etc.  I am sure Hiroshi must be doing well with all of that if people are buying.

That's hide's official website managed by Headwax (Hiroshi).

[LEMONedMe]

As far as using hide or selling hide merchandise, I ran across this somewhere.  Maybe on here but i don't think so and it's still probably on here, somewhere.  http://www.hide-city.com/

There's more hide stuff on that site than anyone could ever want. LOL.  I am sure that's Hiroshi's doing and the Lemoned Cafe is also featured there as well as a blog and an area to buy food from the cafe via mail order, apparently.  I've never gone through the entire site as there is just too much!

I did subscribe to it, though, because I wasn't sure what I'd get in emails and what the heck. Anyway, even concerts are put on plus celebrations etc.  I am sure Hiroshi must be doing well with all of that if people are buying.

That's hide's official website managed by Headwax (Hiroshi).

Yea, like I said, I figured it was Hiroshi's doing or belonged to him.  Well, it does in a way.   That site has a lot of merchandise, etc, but I didn't see anything I'd be interested in.  At least, so far.

[matsumoto]

Hmmm, even with asthma. I have asthma and my occasional asthma attacks are pretty different from his sensual crawling around/rolling on the floor/leg stretching/hip thrusting/hair flipping. When I have an asthma attack I cough and wheeze until my face turns all red and my lips blue, I shoot a ton of snot and all I can do is sit there, all hunched over, ocasionally choking and drooling and frantically reaching for my inhaler. Not a nice sight.  I highly doubt he'd go on stage without taking meds to prevent them either - tons of Olympic athletes have asthma, they just take salbutamol or terbutaline before a competition. Works like a charm.

As for the Hide exploitation - not sure how to feel about it. Making a shitload of money off your dead brother sounds pretty bad. But hey, it's supply and demand. There's still a lot of demand for Hidecrap after 20 years, someone must undeniably do the supply. If I recall correctly, the Lemoned shop, or however the heck one spells it, already existed before Hide died. They sold his music, plus his girlfriend's fashion creations - again, IRCC, the brand was called Electric, and it went bankrupt around 2014. After Hide died they opened a museum and the supply of memorial products boomed. Might sound exploitative, but I don't know if I would have done things differently if my ultra-famous brother died and a billion fans were gathering at my door demanding content and merch.

[LEMONedMe]

I agree, matsumoto,

My brother has asthma and I saw him die from it, literally.  The ambulance and med techs went nuts trying to revive him and he just turned blue and stopped breathing on this one occasion.  He would more or less go into a panic when he knew one was coming on strong.  He died, twice, in the ambulance, too.  He is lucky to be alive.  And I worked with a gal who had it and she wheezed, horribly, and struggled so hard to breathe.  The whole office staff were running all over the building asking for inhalers from anyone who might have one on them each time this happened.  Neither my brother nor this woman did anything like Yoshiki does when he "passes out" from "exhaustion".

And to me, it looks like Hiroshi has gone somewhat overboard with this shop but who knows?  Maybe it was in hide's Will to do it?

[Teemeah]

Hmmm, even with asthma. I have asthma and my occasional asthma attacks are pretty different from his sensual crawling around/rolling on the floor/leg stretching/hip thrusting/hair flipping. When I have an asthma attack I cough and wheeze until my face turns all red and my lips blue, I shoot a ton of snot and all I can do is sit there, all hunched over, ocasionally choking and drooling and frantically reaching for my inhaler. Not a nice sight.  I highly doubt he'd go on stage without taking meds to prevent them either - tons of Olympic athletes have asthma, they just take salbutamol or terbutaline before a competition. Works like a charm.

there are different reactions, and different people suffer differently. You are also hardly doing any hardcore drumming for an hour or two, which adds up to a shortage of breath.

[matsumoto]

I sure don't drum I've done long-distance running before, though, and did occasionally get EIA (exercise-induced asthma). Not my finest moments. There was lots of hyperventilating, panic, snot, tears, sweat, crying and puking all over my high school coach. If Yoshiki gets this and still manages to crawl around like a cat in those lacy pants, with awesome hair and not a smudge on his makeup, then heck, I feel disgusting. But what do I know. Maybe the guy just looks nice doing whatever he does. Including eating a giant burger, blowing his nose during allergy season and picking his teeth for that stubborn bit of orange pulp. 

[Teemeah]

I'm pretty sure he looks awesome and magnificient even when he farts. He just has this kind of aura around him. Sure, some of his collapses may have been staged, but we haven't seen all footage of every occassion it happened. He collapsed quite a few times on tour, but not all concerts were televised or filmed for tape release. Probably he didn't really want the puking moments to get out there and ruin his perfect diva image.

[matsumoto]

Agree, he's totally head of the 'I fart glitter' club. Yoshiki = the Regina George of metal.