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A picture about Yoshiki

Sander · 6037

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Offline Sander

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on: November 25, 2008, 01:34:07 PM
Disclaimer: I am not the author of this picture. Some of you will probably find the picture offensive, some will like it. I would, however, like to remind you to keep the conversation civilized. Thank you



Picture by Fri.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2008, 09:29:39 PM by Hypno »

This is my administrator color.


Offline X-J

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Reply #1 on: November 25, 2008, 05:09:05 PM
I can appreciate the humour to an extent, but I'm reminded of a superimposition of Western values on a Japanese artist in the area of music.

The thinking depends on a separation between work and pleasure common to Westerners (ever since popular democracy); as a result, many, esp. within the US-UK cultural sphere, believe that you cannot put your heart into your work but rather that all work is instrumental, mere "tool" for survival, which means that music-making, if that's your principal job, is money-making rather than some genuine, aesthetic, more disinterested enjoyment. After work you can enjoy yourself but work is selfish business. This is completely against the avant-garde movements of early-20th century (to which X is at least implicitly linked).

While we have cause to argue that X Japan wants also to gain profit with their music and franchises, it is more uncertain to deduce from this that Yoshiki subjectively cares only about this area of music-making. In addition, to imply that the concert cancellations are the same thing as nuclear bomb-detonations (quite insensitive implication to the Japanese which makes it probable that someone of Anglo-American cultural background is behind the picture) is at best provocative, at worst tasteless.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline mC

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Reply #2 on: November 25, 2008, 07:54:44 PM
LOL THAT'S A CRACK UP!!! LOVE IT!!!

If people start taking this picture seriously, they need to look at their sense of humor. It is nothing more than a joke!



Offline MIHO

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Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 08:09:53 PM
LAAAWL XDDD

ThanX for posting this, that made my day.



Offline Fri

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Reply #4 on: November 25, 2008, 09:25:41 PM
Oh good lord, how did this end up here?

Thanks guys, please forgive my crappy Photoshop "art".

X-J: Actually I'm Australian. And if you're going to look THAT much into this pic then you can say that it is an expression of the torture my relatives endured in Japanese concentration camps and how the bombing of places like Darwin caused devestation to some of our virtually defenceless small towns.



Offline Menacia

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Reply #5 on: November 25, 2008, 09:37:38 PM
LOL!!! That's great. Real funny. A great sense of humor up there.
And in a way, it is so true.



Offline matsumoto

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Reply #6 on: November 25, 2008, 09:39:41 PM
I can appreciate the humour to an extent, but I'm reminded of a superimposition of Western values on a Japanese artist in the area of music.

The thinking depends on a separation between work and pleasure common to Westerners (ever since popular democracy); as a result, many, esp. within the US-UK cultural sphere, believe that you cannot put your heart into your work but rather that all work is instrumental, mere "tool" for survival, which means that music-making, if that's your principal job, is money-making rather than some genuine, aesthetic, more disinterested enjoyment. After work you can enjoy yourself but work is selfish business. This is completely against the avant-garde movements of early-20th century (to which X is at least implicitly linked).

While we have cause to argue that X Japan wants also to gain profit with their music and franchises, it is more uncertain to deduce from this that Yoshiki subjectively cares only about this area of music-making. In addition, to imply that the concert cancellations are the same thing as nuclear bomb-detonations (quite insensitive implication to the Japanese which makes it probable that someone of Anglo-American cultural background is behind the picture) is at best provocative, at worst tasteless.

I fully agree with the first part, I must say. (not that I'm defending Yoshiki nor implying that his only and supreme intention is the highly altruistic and saint-ish wish to make the fans happy with his music, as you said yourself). I guess sometimes people get a bit of a jaundiced view of the Arts sphere of business. We cannot compare X Japan to greedy ambitious business men sitting nine-to-five behind burocratic work nor Yoshiki to a maid who can rest and sigh happily after his work gets done. I guess sometimes we've got to understand that music is their work, but more than that, their pride and what they need to do (rather than want to do), as it is part of their nature as musicians. (and from what we know of Yoshiki, this is the case or at least it has always seemed to be). I could go on further and extend this to pretentious Heidegger arguments on how the artist is manipulated by the need to create but I'll save you from a terribly long text that could go misunderstood as me having an absurdly innocent point of view of the current music/arts business. (and yes, I am aware of the meaning of the word capitalism and also of the fact that Yoshiki owns a fleet of luxury cars).
Well, anyway, seen from where we stand, it doesn't sound that discrepant and innaprpriate to say I can actually understand what lead the guy to make these dramatic and emotive apologies. Getting your plans aborted and your (I could use the word "dream" but that would sound way too flowery) denied can be kind of hurtful when you've actually worked really hard. If it was with me, in fact, I'd be less concerned with the lost profit than with the dissapointment I had caused. But maybe that's just me being innocent again.

Now, back on the subject of X-J's post's last part, I seriously don't believe the explosion background is allusive to any japanese world war thingy. It would be too witty. I don't think they'd bother linking the two.

 I think the picture is funny, myself. It doesn't offends me. It is clearly a stupid hyperbolic parody.

Woah, I can haz admin colour.


Offline Overdose

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Reply #7 on: November 25, 2008, 10:14:04 PM
Now, back on the subject of X-J's post's last part, I seriously don't believe the explosion background is allusive to any japanese world war thingy. It would be too witty. I don't think they'd bother linking the two.

 I think the picture is funny, myself. It doesn't offends me. It is clearly a stupid hyperbolic parody.


I was going to say the same thing, I'm pretty sure that its not meant to be a link to anything like Hiroshima or world war related things and it is simply playing off the situation we have just had.  It is rather mean but at the same time it is only a joke.  We don't know what happened behind the scenes and what lead to what, all we can do is assume.

I can however see how this could in directly be taken the wrong way by certain people, I sort of noticed the blast and did in my mind link it to ww2 but as I said im sure thats not how the joke is meant to be taken.  It's quite funny in a sense but at the same time it seems a bit of an obvious joke to make at the same time imo.



Offline X-J

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Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 12:54:25 PM
Yes, it kinda makes a point. Perhaps the style is a bit sarcastic (or then I'm too old, 28 ;)) and sarcasm can be provocative... So it's not the end of the world, really, only the nuclear bomb reference is a bit disturbing (though I'm not Japanese; it would be nice to hear a Japanese viewpoint).

And, its implication that some of us are "brainless pawns" to Yoshiki is still quite cynical and condescending... Reminds me of George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire books (I may have mentioned this before). It has this dreamy-eyed female character named Sansa Stark. She's hopelessly naive, etc. From what I've read, 80 percent of the readers hate her for it. It has always puzzled me why "being dreamy-eyed" is so offensive to many Westerners. I think (hope) that's different in Japan. I have a feeling it's got something to do with individualism. "Dreamy-eyed" person isn't in control of him/herself or "rational" which some interpret as stupidity.

Quote from: matsumoto
I could go on further and extend this to pretentious Heidegger arguments on how the artist is manipulated by the need to create but I'll save you from a terribly long text that could go misunderstood as me having an absurdly innocent point of view of the current music/arts business.

Have you honestly read Heidegger? He doesn't say anything like that directly.

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline X-J

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Reply #9 on: November 26, 2008, 04:10:55 PM
Quote from: X-J
Have you honestly read Heidegger? He doesn't say anything like that directly.

I took my master's degree in philosophy of Art,therefore I've had overdoses of Heidegger. I know he doesn't say it directly, I'm just being hyperbolic about his theory on the dynamics artist/creation. And of course does't say it directly in The Origin of The Work of Art, but we can sort of read between the lines kind of a subjugation of the artist to the impulse he has to create as a way to give meaning to the truth.

(sorry for the off topic reply, I'm a philosphy nerd. :P)

Count me in also! I've done basic studies in Philosophy at a University, plus, I've read especially Continental Philosophy for something like 2,5 years almost daily (rough estimate) for my Ph.D.

It's a beautiful article I think, of "setting up the world and setting forth the earth". But it also differs from self-creating or some hermetic relationship to art so common in bourgeois culture; it starts from life, doesn't reject life. Here are just some random observations about Heidegger I wrote (and his relationship with Japan and Finland), slightly OT:

H was obsessed with the question of meaning (going beyond the phenomenologists who didn't question the self-standing subject as eidos, neo-Kantians for holding on to transcendental-intersubjective epistemologies, and rejecting positivism). He was concerned that forms (or objects or signs or names) threatened to dismiss the question of Lebenswelt, i.e., individual subject's world experience (Dasein) that precedes, but is constantly threatened to get buried by, the form-making and/or social-acting. In this context, Heidegger remarked in the 1950s in his conversation with a Japanese professor that in Japan, people were not in a hurry to name and control things but rather liked the uncertainty and chaos often deemed "wrong" or uncomfortable by our rationalist-Christian culture.

Only practical knowledge, associated with this practical being-in-the-world, was certain in a way of being atheoretical, but even that was not without fore-interpretations. Regarding the rest, we're always "locked" in a circle of interpretation that gets "thrown" into various locations uniquely (but this is not a bad thing as such, unless one wants to treat oneself as objective). So, rather than deducing one's existence from surrounding concepts, names and ideas and emphasising similarity and communication, Heidegger emphasised (with Aristotle) the multiplicity of possibilities and the contingent presence of Dasein. Truth was life (as with Aristotle) and life was beyond controlling, labelling, etc. by constantly flowing over these "boxes", by revealing them, accommodating them; episteme or science could not reach it, it was larger than techne as technology, only phronesis, "practical wisdom", came close. At the same time, we are threatened by anxiety of death and limit (this is a very German idea also used by Freud) and we respond to these by filling our lives with order and new impulses.

Dasein existed in time, but also time was something that was not by being, and was by being not (again an Aristotelian view). Dasein and also life "precedes" truth as well as chronological time by acting as something more fundamental but at the same time as something spatiotemporal. By emphasising the public, social and chronological, this uniqueness and situatedness is threatened to get swept away and flattened out (I think this is a very valid point). We all fall victim to this; none can raise above it because we live in a society. But through resolution, we can approximate an origin via Ereignis but at the same time we lose it by taking control of it. That's why Heidegger even has words crossed out in his writings; once formed into words ("sense"), they lose their revealing character. "From what has been said, the sign of this crossing through cannot, however, be the merely negative sign of a crossing out. It points, rather, towards the four regions of the fourfold and their being gathered in the locale of this crossing through."

Here's a good article on Heidegger and the Japanese professor. I think especially intriguing is the silence part; at least Americans are generally very uncomfortable with silence. In Japan and Finland also, silence is nothing to be afraid of but rather can be something deeper than the "violence" words and action possess.

http://baharna.com/psychozoan/9802/silence.htm
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 04:15:49 PM by X-J »

Only what is in motion can rest."
-Martin Heidegger


Offline Beauty/Broken

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Reply #10 on: December 02, 2008, 03:41:18 PM
Hahahahahaha, this rocks. Thanks Fri.



Offline paradoXal

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Reply #11 on: January 03, 2009, 11:13:39 AM
This picture rocks the hell out of this forum! : D

I lolled so hard! : DDD



Offline Flippinklein

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Reply #12 on: February 21, 2010, 03:36:52 PM
excuse me, but this just made my day.

now then.
off to lawl my ass outta existance <3


 He lives on with each smile that his music brings to each childs and adults face