X Freaks Forum
Offtopic => Offtopic => Topic started by: BizKiTRoAcH on July 15, 2008, 03:07:28 PM
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the days when a fan forum was run by the fans, for the fans? When did fan forums start becoming like nazi dictatorships? This is not the first forum I've seen it happen to. I've seen it happen to countless forums. Its not necessarily the owners fault.. sometimes they are backed into a corner and forced to make decisions that may not be fair or may not be easy.. but I remember the days when those admins/owners said "Fuck you!" to the pressure.
It is a shame to see such a wonderful forum hit rock bottom and I know for a fact a LOT of people will disagree with me and claim that this forum is still going strong and wonderfully.. but I also know a lot of people (mostly older members) that agree with me. It is a shame that it was only a handful of people that caused the downfall.. but those people have ruined it for most.
I'm not naming any names in this post for the simple fact it would be unfair to push blame on any one person or group of people.. and if this post is locked or doesnt exist in the next 24 hours, it only reinforces the point i'm making.
Good luck to you all. I'm not leaving.. I'll still pop back occasionally to check on any X updates i've missed and stay in touch with some people.. but I just thought I'd leave some thoughts with you. Agree or disagree with me.. it doesnt really matter to be honest.
Take it easy folks :D
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Edit by Lucs : just to say I haven't edited anything :P I was browsing the forum and double clicked on the link (instead of simple click) and it opened a form and edited the title (didn't know about this function ! Guess it works only on IE). Sorry.
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Bigger forums need a bit stricter rules, I'm afraid.
Other than that, I honestly haven't noticed anything wrong here (except a few crazy spammers who only want to get banned it seems, no names mentioned either).
So, I disagree...
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Bigger forums need a bit stricter rules, I'm afraid.
Yep, except that our "getting bigger" wouldn't really need stricter rules. While we have lots of new active members, many old active members have stopped being active, and we now have about as many active users as back in the good old days. The growth is just an illusion.
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I have to disagree... We still have more active members than before. And more lurkers.
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Why does an admin like PN has to create a new topic for already existing news?
Why did le.pilote/Belle and Sebastian get warned just for laughing at a post (when this issue could have easily been handled by the other users rather than moderation)?
Why is the length of Darkcat's ban not listed?
Why was I warned twice and am on the verge of a permaban for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki (seriously, I'd bet a fair amount of the bi/gay male population and female population of this board shares that sentiment, maybe even a few "straight" guys, so why was it so horribly offensive to post a thread about?)
Why does Hypno demand proof and then lock a thread so I can't post my proof in it? Oh and by the way, two interviews to prove that Yoshiki driving drunk is NOT a fucking rumor:
http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_oshare.htm
http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_style.htm
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Why was I warned twice and am on the verge of a permaban for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki (seriously, I'd bet a fair amount of the bi/gay male population and female population of this board shares that sentiment, maybe even a few "straight" guys, so why was it so horribly offensive to post a thread about?)
Iee dnopt knww. Myeby bcous yu ar a trol.
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Why did le.pilote/Belle and Sebastian get warned just for laughing at a post (when this issue could have easily been handled by the other users rather than moderation)?
Because he broke a rule.
Why was I warned twice and am on the verge of a permaban for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki (seriously, I'd bet a fair amount of the bi/gay male population and female population of this board shares that sentiment, maybe even a few "straight" guys, so why was it so horribly offensive to post a thread about?)
Because you broke a rule twice. Read the rules. If you don't agree with the rules, click on Log out. That's how it goes on EVERY forum on the Internet.
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Why was I warned twice and am on the verge of a permaban for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki (seriously, I'd bet a fair amount of the bi/gay male population and female population of this board shares that sentiment, maybe even a few "straight" guys, so why was it so horribly offensive to post a thread about?)
Iee dnopt knww. Myeby bcous yu ar a trol.
I'm not a fucking troll. See my posts. Before all of this shit went down last May, I actually was a normal member and contributed to the board just like anyone else (even if my contributions as a Miyavi fan and a hide/Yoshiki shipper may not have been what everyone wanted. . .)
EDIT: And why is it against the rules to say you want to fuck Yoshiki? This isn't JRR!
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I'm not a fucking troll.
Oh? Maybe I'll believe that when you start acting like a normal user and not like a creature from 4chan.
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Bigger forums need a bit stricter rules, I'm afraid.
Wait, so this is a "bigger forum" now? :lol:
You have under 400 users who have ever joined, EVER, in the history of this board. How many people are actively posting here? 30, tops? How many posts does this place get a day, on average? Does it even break 100 posts on a normal day?
There is a truly comical amount of government here for the size of the forum.
And great post Bizkitroach, good to see you again. :D
Why was I warned twice and am on the verge of a permaban for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki (seriously, I'd bet a fair amount of the bi/gay male population and female population of this board shares that sentiment, maybe even a few "straight" guys, so why was it so horribly offensive to post a thread about?)
Huh, I missed this one. Where did you say you want to fuck Yoshiki and what did your post say exactly? ...And, yeah, is "I want to fuck Yoshiki" seriously a ban-worthy offense here now?
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Bigger forums need a bit stricter rules, I'm afraid.
Wait, so this is a "bigger forum" now? :lol:
You have under 400 users who have ever joined, EVER, in the history of this board. How many people are actively posting here? 30, tops? How many posts does this place get a day, on average? Does it even break 100 posts on a normal day?
There is a truly comical amount of government here for the size of the forum.
And great post Bizkitroach, good to see you again. :D
Why was I warned twice and am on the verge of a permaban for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki (seriously, I'd bet a fair amount of the bi/gay male population and female population of this board shares that sentiment, maybe even a few "straight" guys, so why was it so horribly offensive to post a thread about?)
Huh, I missed this one. Where did you say you want to fuck Yoshiki and what did your post say exactly? ...And, yeah, is "I want to fuck Yoshiki" seriously a ban-worthy offense here now?
Last night I got drunk and posted a thread about wanting to fuck Yoshiki in the Yoshiki forum. It was deleted, so I posted it again. Ferret gave me two warnings in one PM.
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Huh, I missed this one. Where did you say you want to fuck Yoshiki and what did your post say exactly? ...And, yeah, is "I want to fuck Yoshiki" seriously a ban-worthy offense here now?
The posts did say "Iiii ownna fukccc Yoshikiii, anoynee eels"? and posting something like that again, after the first thread was deleted/moved, well, don't think that's so smart. :lol:
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EDIT: And why is it against the rules to say you want to fuck Yoshiki? This isn't JRR!
That doesn't mean some of JRR's rules can't be similar to some of ours.
If you're looking for anarchy, go back to your -chan.
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Yoshiki subforum is to talk about Yoshiki.
Nobody cares if you want to fuck him. It's not a forum about you. We have to keep a bit of "order" in the subforums.
Big or not, I think any forum needs some rules. And anyway, it always shock me when a rule needs to state that members have to respect each other... respect is one of the most important thing online and in real life.
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Huh, I missed this one. Where did you say you want to fuck Yoshiki and what did your post say exactly? ...And, yeah, is "I want to fuck Yoshiki" seriously a ban-worthy offense here now?
Title: I wana fuclk Yoshikiii
Poll subject: do you wana fucjk yoshikiiiiiii
mmm i could ride that rocket until ti rusts
yoshiki :oops:
if uoujve had iot with miscast dice mayb estay outa thec asinoe>?
Title: yoyo iw annnnna fuck you babye
Poll subject: iwanna fuck yosihiki
whydhw as myhntpic dleted?
whowrhefck doesnt' anwa ride yosshikie?
nbo olz nooo i;m dunk
Well excuse me, that's trolling. And no, I don't believe you were drunk, why the hell should I?
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EDIT: And why is it against the rules to say you want to fuck Yoshiki? This isn't JRR!
That doesn't mean some of JRR's rules can't be similar to some of ours.
If you're looking for anarchy, go back to your -chan.
Actually, I'm not on a -chan. Though I think 2chan's visual board has some good ideas and we should strive for something BETWEEN their total anarchy and what we have here now.
And what, do I have to post proof of my blood alcohol content to show that I shouldn't have been warned for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki?
This is getting fucking absurd.
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Actually, I'm not on a -chan. Though I think 2chan's visual board has some good ideas and we should strive for something BETWEEN their total anarchy and what we have here now.
So do it.
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...even if my contributions as a Miyavi fan ... may not have been what everyone wanted. . .)
A shame you didn't contribute in the Miyavi-Thread. :wink:
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Why does an admin like PN has to create a new topic for already existing news?
Maybe ASK her.
Why did le.pilote/Belle and Sebastian get warned just for laughing at a post (when this issue could have easily been handled by the other users rather than moderation)?
Because he did it in a rather insulting way.
Why is the length of Darkcat's ban not listed?
Because it is being discussed, how long should a second ban be. It will probably be one month though.
Why was I warned twice and am on the verge of a permaban for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki (seriously, I'd bet a fair amount of the bi/gay male population and female population of this board shares that sentiment, maybe even a few "straight" guys, so why was it so horribly offensive to post a thread about?)
Because the text was almost unreadable and the topic didn't have a point. Maybe don't post drunk next time.
Why does Hypno demand proof and then lock a thread so I can't post my proof in it? Oh and by the way, two interviews to prove that Yoshiki driving drunk is NOT a fucking rumor
I hoped you maybe open a new topic for discussion. The last time you offered 'proof' in an interview, the topic wasn't even mentioned there.
Bigger forums need a bit stricter rules, I'm afraid.
Wait, so this is a "bigger forum" now? :lol:
You have under 400 users who have ever joined, EVER, in the history of this board. How many people are actively posting here? 30, tops? How many posts does this place get a day, on average? Does it even break 100 posts on a normal day?
There is a truly comical amount of government here for the size of the forum.
First of all, biggER, as in bigger than before.
If you are interested, on average (counting from 18 Apr 2006 02:32 pm, when we didn't have any users for months, and the first year or so, when we had days without any posts) 52.18 posts and 2.50 topics per day. The actual numbers are bigger, for the reasons I mentioned above. Also, the board doesn't display users with 0 posts i.e. lurkers (we have 3422 registered users, but ~60% are undeleted bots probably).
And the administration has been spread around the different subforums. AND more moderators shouldn't mean that we are stricter, it just means that we a) get more opinions before deciding things and b) can find posts that break rules more faster.
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Sorry if there are some people around who are NOT INTERRESTED IN READING who wants to fuck Yoshiki and who not.
So IF there's anything that should be deleted, it's the content of such nonsense posts like that and if THAT's the reason to call that board a Nazi board, then I'd rather suggest to go and search for a brain - then we can talk again
Thank you
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And what, do I have to post proof of my blood alcohol content to show that I shouldn't have been warned for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki?
No, you should have lied more convincingly. See, you are more of an "agressive poster" type, and I can't believe that you'd turn into a mistyping angel all of a sudden (you didn't insult anyone - not even your arch enemy PN - while you were DRUNK?) when under the influence of alcohol; I see agressive people who drink typing shit on their computer every day and you my friend did it wrong. That's why I do not believe you...and because of that second account you made some days ago...and because of many many posts you made in the past.
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And what, do I have to post proof of my blood alcohol content to show that I shouldn't have been warned for saying I wanted to fuck Yoshiki?
No, you should have lied more convincingly. See, you are more of an "agressive poster" type, and I can't believe that you'd turn into a mistyping angel all of a sudden (you didn't insult anyone - not even your arch enemy PN - while you were DRUNK?) when under the influence of alcohol; I see agressive people who drink typing shit on their computer every day and you my friend did it wrong. That's why I do not believe you...and because of that second account you made some days ago...and because of many many posts you made in the past.
Actually, I was really fucking sad, which kind of makes me all mellow and horny, and no one was provoking me, so I was "omg wanna prank-call bars and post about fucking yoshiki" rather than FIGHT TIME NAO PLZ. Now, if PN or someone else had started shit, I probably WOULD have gone for my permaban.
As for the second account, it was a JOKE. I know many people here are very unfamiliar with that idea, but I'm pretty sure people could tell it was obviously NOT Yoshiki and was there for humor.
And "many many posts I've made in the past?" That's a fallacy called poisoning the well.
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As for the second account, it was a JOKE. I know many people here are very unfamiliar with that idea, but I'm pretty sure people could tell it was obviously NOT Yoshiki and was there for humor.
I'll tell you a secret then: It wasn't funny. It was unoriginal. Has been done before. Poor execution. Not enough "......." between the words for my taste.
What IS funny though is you trying to make yourself look like the victim now because you posted the same unintelligible bs TWICE and I warned you for that, how dare I.
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.....maybe even a few "straight" guys....
I sure as hell hope not.
I'll shut up now before I'm accused of being a homophobe. :lol:
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hmm i cant understand why miscastdice's i wanna fuck yoshiki thread was deleted. no offense, but in this forum there are many threads at least pointless as md's
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hmm i cant understand why miscastdice's i wanna fuck yoshiki thread was deleted.
two threads
Title: I wana fuclk Yoshikiii
Poll subject: do you wana fucjk yoshikiiiiiii
mmm i could ride that rocket until ti rusts
yoshiki :oops:
if uoujve had iot with miscast dice mayb estay outa thec asinoe>?
Title: yoyo iw annnnna fuck you babye
Poll subject: iwanna fuck yosihiki
whydhw as myhntpic dleted?
whowrhefck doesnt' anwa ride yosshikie?
nbo olz nooo i;m dunk
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would it be okay, if i open the very same thread without typing mistakes?
(i dont wanna fuck yoshiki by the way, just cuious)
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I don't think so. As much as I tend to tolerate fangirl/boy-ism, personally, I wouldn't want to see a "who from X would you rather do" thread here. (also, we already have a, ehem, sexiest X member thread (+ poll), I don't think it's a big stretch to assume that some fans would not mind getting "close" with members they voted for).
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i really dont understand this,
i wouldnt be offending or harassing anyone with that kind of thread. i would even replace FUCK with 'sleep with' or 'have sexual intercourse with' or anything else if required.
and quoting you: YOU WOULDNT WANT TO SEE A THREAD LIKE THAT ONE. do you flex the rules as you want? nothing personal, i just think, staff here want to rule over the forum as they want it to be (perfect, decent and clean). and they keep on doing this until users with different opinions turn their backs on this board.
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@Bizkitroach - Nice to see You again, Lee. I really appreciate Your opinion. :)
@MiscastDice - Please. Like please. You know my opinion - going on like this it is only making matters worse. :x
Big or not, I think any forum needs some rules. And anyway, it always shock me when a rule needs to state that members have to respect each other... respect is one of the most important thing online and in real life.
Some rules, yes. And about respect - well, personally I don't mind the rule and not because of people's recent behavior. I noticed lack of respect from some members to others already on the very day I joined this forum. Only that unlike today, these members were sometimes even cheered on for the way they could - ladies, mods and admins forgive - harrass the shit out of others. So, all in all, I am glad they are (hopefully) prevented from doing so even now.
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Nope, it's just that these kind of topics don't belong on a forum. It's just some personal stuffs, post it on your blog, myspace, but not here on the forum.
That's how I see it personally.
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and quoting you: YOU WOULDNT WANT TO SEE A THREAD LIKE THAT ONE.
That's what I said, it's MY opinion, I don't represent the staff by saying I, just myself.
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Nope, it's just that these kind of topics don't belong on a forum. It's just some personal stuffs, post it on your blog, myspace, but not here on the forum.
That's how I see it personally.
what if i started a poll?? and if you're saying "it doesnt belong here on a forum" what does, and what doesnt, if it relates to x japan??
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Seriously - what's the point here?
I really understand some points of being not the same opinion like some of the staff members, but this is really getting ridiculous now in my opinion!
What's so important about a thread like this? Not saying that every existing thread is important here, but... honestly, I don't like to have porn fantasies some users have with some bandmembers here. And don't tell me "Don't read it, if you don't like it!" - in this case I wouldn't wanna see a thread like that at all.
Can't see why it's so hard to just forebear from "I wanna put my wiener into ~insert bandmember~'s arse!"-topics... Really, this board is for sure not avoiding kinky comments and I'm really not prude about those things myself, but there really should be a limit somewhere. These guys aren't playmates or something... and apart from this nobody's forbidding you to wank over the cover of the Shoxx magazine or detaining you from talking about topics like that via messengers or in your blogs or what ever. :roll:
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Seriously - what's the point here?
I really understand some points of being not the same opinion like some of the staff members, but this is really getting ridiculous now in my opinion!
What's so important about a thread like this? Not saying that every existing thread is important here, but... honestly, I don't like to have porn fantasies some users have with some bandmembers here. And don't tell me "Don't read it, if you don't like it!" - in this case I wouldn't wanna see a thread like that at all.
Can't see why it's so hard to just forebear from "I wanna put my wiener into ~insert bandmember~'s arse!"-topics... Really, this board is for sure not avoiding kinky comments and I'm really not prude about those things myself, but there really should be a limit somewhere. These guys aren't playmates or something... and apart from this nobody's forbidding you to wank over the cover of the Shoxx magazine or detaining you from talking about topics like that via messengers or in your blogs or what ever. :roll:
By arguing this, I'm trying to make a point: I don't think we should be more restrictive than Yoshiki's own myspace. . .
take a look.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=14155082&albumID=159338&imageID=67426
Keep in mind each one of these comments is approved.
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Do I have to read all 19 pages..? :(
Won't change me being puzzled what's so important about a thread especially dedicated to how you wanna ride Yoshiki's rocket. :lol:
Here: threads :arrow: discussion.
There on Yoshiki's MySpace: just comments :arrow: no communication in first place.
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the point is that the staff here (or at least some) try to dictate the board, censoring and deleting posts and threads "they dont like" and so on.
just because they dont want to see a thread named "i wanna fuck yoshiki that horny bitch" they simply forbid it, whereas threads, which are just as pointless (i.e. "yoshikis voice" or "yoshiki gets into fights all the time" or "yoshiki has pink underwear") are accepted by staff.
they just dont want to make x japan look bad, silly, ridiculous, funny or scandalizing
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Huh, I don't actually think Yoshiki looks bad, when MD says he wants to ride his rocket. I don't think that this is an argument really.
For example as well: "Yoshiki's voice" or "Yoshiki gets into fights all the time" or "Yoshiki has pink underwear" are threads about Yoshiki.
"I wanna fuck Yoshiki" is about the thread opnener, isn't it? So taking your arguments for real, the staff rather was looking for MD not to look bad than for X then. :P
:? In my opinion MD was't making Yoshiki look silly with his thread. Not at all (rather the opposite, I think).
Being staff member or not - I simply don't get the point about taking a thread like THIS as an argument. I'd rather take as an argument, if it's happening that someone closes the discussion about the song "Standing Sex" because someone said that this song makes him horny or something similar. In this example there wasn't opened a thread only for saying "that song makes me horny" and so it's somehow part of the discussion.
Is there really a "Yoshiki has pink underwear"-thread? :shock: Wouldn't mind it being closed! Urgh! XD
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Is there really a "Yoshiki has pink underwear"-thread? :shock: Wouldn't mind it being closed! Urgh! XD
I dunno but I'm still undecided about opening a "Pata's hair" thread, it's a very heated topic.
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the point is that the staff here (or at least some) try to dictate the board, censoring and deleting posts and threads "they dont like" and so on.
just because they dont want to see a thread named "i wanna fuck yoshiki that horny bitch" they simply forbid it, whereas threads, which are just as pointless (i.e. "yoshikis voice" or "yoshiki gets into fights all the time" or "yoshiki has pink underwear") are accepted by staff.
they just dont want to make x japan look bad, silly, ridiculous, funny or scandalizing
It's not about what the staffs like and don't like, it's about how the staff wants to deal with its forum.
It's the staff's choice to forbid porn and such things on this forum, respect it or leave.
It's the staff's choice to forbid topics that they consider pointless, respect it or leave it.
Really, nobody's forcing you to stay if you think this forum is soooooo bad :P
YOU are one of the people ruining the athmosphere of the forum by makin' pointless thread to try to make the staff look bad. We're here to TALK about X Japan, a band we ALL like.
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EXACTLY, and really, don't you think the board would be so, so much better if you guys would just STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT EVERY SINGLE THING?!
Everyones over it, okay? If you guys would just give the new rules a chance, everything might just work out! :) You guys seem to be too busy "fighting" this "Nazi ruling" (Original btw... :roll:) to even TRY them. IS there a problem anymore? The "PN issue" has been addressed, the only posts that are being modded are ones which are complete and utter bullshit anyway, and the only thing thats really running this place down is the repetitive spamming, complaning and bitching that keeps going on!
And really, has much changed? Copying and pasting a message to a photo isn't TOO difficult. Respecting others isn't THAT hard. The censoring and having to confirm rumours and so on NEEDS to be done because X Japan IS an active band, and do we really want to take the chance to get this place shut down over anything so silly like not following simple copyright laws or whatever? Confirming rumours and not posting absolute bullshit (And i mean COME ON! The only reason you guys are writing shit about riding Yoshiki's love gun is to 'prove' the admins 'overuse of power' or whatever you guys are calling it this week... Lets be realistic here, you wouldn't post crap like that IF there were absolutely no rules... You guys just have to be these little revolutionaries don't you? :P)
Little things like respecting people, adding your sources to rumors or comfirmations or whatever and adding a little message to your picture won't affect peoples personalities and their points of view, the discussions here and so on. Unless you're just interested in talking about buttsecks with members of the band or talking about 18+ OT crap, well.. Thats what /b/ is for...
And can everyone not dwell on past mistakes and so on? Can we all just have a laugh, enjoy this amazing band we all love and look forward to many more memories and good times! :D
So please, just stop complaining, abide by the rules that aren't really that harsh and difficult, and just take it easy. :D
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For the record, as I never had a chance to reply before it all kicked off, I think the "I want to fuck Yoshiki" thread should have been deleted. That kind of thread is pointless.
I never said EVERY rule was bad for the forum. Some of the rules are long overdue and could have been introduced a long time ago.
Some of the rules came about from certain members attitudes and actions. For example, rule number 6 regarding translations is a fair rule but some translators think they are better than others and even if my source was Yoshiki himself, some people would "fix" the translation by putting it in their own words.
Rule number 7 is one I dont agree with. Again, this rule came about from some members attitude/actions, even though 1 particular member that I know of, had messages from Yoshiki in the past and proceeded to show a lot of their friends.. which is exactly what I did because my friends were on this forum and it was easier to post here rather than sending it to them all individually.. but because my message proved a point which was different to that members point, that person then went on to act like a child and throw a tantrum until they got what they wanted. Hypocrisy is not a good thing.
Rule number 10 is complete BS. As i've said in the past, this forum cannot be held responsible for what the users post. When you first sign up, that is in the registration terms.
While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.
The person who posts stuff from YoshikiMobile is the person breaking THEIR original agreement. X-Freaks CANNOT be held liable and CANNOT be shut down if a user posts info from YM on here. If an ADMIN did, that is a different matter.. but if a user posts the information, only that person can get in trouble. The worst thing that could happen would be an admin getting contacted by Yoshiki's legal team saying "Please take that information down".. and for them to know about this information, they would have to sign up to the forum to view it and by agreeing to the terms, they could not legally threaten anyone.. so yeah.. Rule number 10 is complete BS and I disagree with it.
Its also not just the rules, its the general attitude of people, myself included, that brought the forum down. I'm not pointing at one person saying "IT WAS JUST YOU!!". It was everyone. Instead of everyone just getting along and disagreeing like regular people, some had to go one step further... one member even went as far as reporting me to Yoshiki and his legal team for my "breach of privacy" when I posted a PM he sent to me, even though the PM was 3 words long and was simply answering a question I asked. What the hell is that about? What happened to the days when 2 people would argue and that was it?
A few people thought they were better than everyone else and still do. One person actually said to me "Well, i've been a fan of X Japan a lot longer than you, I know more about them than you do". I dont like the attitude of older fans to newer fans.. and i'm not just talking about older fans who have been listening to X Japan since day 1, I'm talking about people who have liked X Japan for 4, 5, 6 years aswell... I've seen people talk down to newer fans (not just here, on lots of forums about lots of different subjects) and say things like they are too young to appreciate X Japan.. wtf?!!
The general attitude and fun factor has dropped in this forum. Thats one of the reasons I dont visit regularly (aswell as RL stuff) and thats why members keep leaving or becoming inactive. As I said.. some will agree.. some will disagree.. but thats my opinion.
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I don't think it's so much about the rules anymore. I think it's about being yelled at to line up like nice little bathtub duckies in a row, or else the door is there. *points*
That kind of attitude may work on some - more naturally obedient types of people - but metalheads are kind of fak-da-sistem people to begin with, so it's no wonder there are strong reactions.
Anyway, that's my hobby psychologist analysis for today. I'll now do as I'm told. I'll STFU. :P
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I don't think it's so much about the rules anymore. I think it's about being yelled at to line up like nice little bathtub duckies in a row, or else the door is there. *points*
That kind of attitude may work on some - more naturally obedient types of people - but metalheads are kind of fak-da-sistem people to begin with, so it's no wonder there are strong reactions.
Anyway, that's my hobby psychologist analysis for today. I'll now do as I'm told. I'll STFU. :P
You win at life. What gets to me (and I'm sure a lot of other people as well) is that a band like this has SO many people following it who are so prudish and OMFG we can't do this/say this/think this AND that somehow we've lost what the idea of the band and the fandom is about (e.g. unrestrained self-expression)
We're here to TALK about X Japan, a band we ALL like.
SO ARE WE. But when we can only talk about SOME of what X Japan is and does, when our discourse is more limited than it is on Yoshiki's myspace, when people are prohibited from posting things that would be informative or interesting to people or expressing themselves (which, if you don't remember, is the entire point of X). . . yeah, we need to just hang out the SELLOUT sign and go find something else.
By the way, let's say that I agree with you who've said my posts should have been deleted. My drunken topic declaring my interest in fucking Yoshiki was inappropriate and bad and stupid. However, who does it hurt? Does it hurt anyone more than Panthere Noire's actions, which are undertaken with the same goal in mind?
What's worse:
Saying "I want to fuck Yoshiki"
or
Trashing on Yoshiki's late best friend (who WAS, as of the 1990s, hide, like it or not), posting disinformation (no, there were NOT two last lives and NO Without You was NOT WRITTEN FOR TOSHI), posting death threats to Masaya, going to a Toshi live and screaming at him, introducing censorship, making X and its fandom look like massive sellouts and puritanical old church ladies (WTF), tearing apart a community, setting fans against each other in a place that doesn't NEED any more fucking drama, all in an attempt to somehow convince Yoshiki to admire your obsessive devotion and fuck you?
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I've been here since the early start back in 2006(as Saint) and I used to visit everyday and post everyday but some users have sorta ruined the forums feel to me lately. Like I sometimes come and read stuff and its like 'what!?'.
I remember when you were more active. Try to ignore what you don't like and try to post more :)
*fryday's post
Well said mate :) READ HIS POST PEOPLE! :)
Rule number 7 is one I dont agree with. Again, this rule came about from some members attitude/actions, even though 1 particular member that I know of, had messages from Yoshiki in the past and proceeded to show a lot of their friends.. which is exactly what I did because my friends were on this forum and it was easier to post here rather than sending it to them all individually.. but because my message proved a point which was different to that members point, that person then went on to act like a child and throw a tantrum until they got what they wanted. Hypocrisy is not a good thing.
Not trying to side here, but before I made it a rule, I did ask Yoshiki's Street team (VUK Street team really, the closest I could get), and they said they wouldn't like those PMs posted. And I believe in privacy.
Rule number 10 is complete BS. As i've said in the past, this forum cannot be held responsible for what the users post. When you first sign up, that is in the registration terms.
If it's in the sign up terms, it can't hurt being in the forum rules as well ;)
By the way, let's say that I agree with you who've said my posts should have been deleted. My drunken topic declaring my interest in fucking Yoshiki was inappropriate and bad and stupid. However, who does it hurt?
It hurts me to see such an immature topic here.
What's worse:
The first option, because:
Trashing on Yoshiki's late best friend (who WAS, as of the 1990s, hide, like it or not)
a) You OR anyone else doesn't know who was Yoshiki's best friend. It might have been Pata's wife's brother's father's boss for all we know. And no one has trashed hide here, only obsessive fangirls sometimes, who say hide is god and a saint and ect (no offense hideisgod :P ). And we haven't had that for a year or so, if I'm not mistaken.
posting disinformation (no, there were NOT two last lives and NO Without You was NOT WRITTEN FOR TOSHI)
I have no idea about two last lives (that post has been deleted anyway, if I'm not mistaken) and Without You for Toshi theory (which could be theorized in several ways) sounds, imo, way more believable than that hide and Yoshiki were lovers, sorry.
posting death threats to Masaya
THAT was ages ago and if it would be done today, it would be deleted.
going to a Toshi live and screaming at him
What someone does in real life is not up to me, AT ALL.
introducing censorship
I wouldn't say deleting spam is censorship.
making X and its fandom look like massive sellouts and puritanical old church ladies (WTF)
I beg your pardon, wat?
tearing apart a community, setting fans against each other in a place that doesn't NEED any more fucking drama
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the only ones tearing the community apart at the moment, are you and a few others who just can't seem to move on from what most of this forum has a month ago.
all in an attempt to somehow convince Yoshiki to admire your obsessive devotion and fuck you?
Ummm, to my knowledge, no one here has been trying to convince Yoshiki about any devotion (I did PM him when I started this forum but I guess he missed that one). And that 'fuck you' was kinda weird there. Yoshiki to fuck you or us? Or us to fuck ourselves, or someone else...? Anyway, please make yourself a bit more clear last time.
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a) You OR anyone else doesn't know who was Yoshiki's best friend. It might have been Pata's wife's brother's father's boss for all we know.
Source 1 (http://www.x-japan.de/interviews/perfect.htm)
If that's not good enough, how about Yoshiki's own myspace. (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=14155082&albumID=159338&imageID=22945895)
And another one. (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=14155082&blogID=116320377&Mytoken=73A6CA89-B6C0-4880-BC20F5B97EB617EB165509123)
It was hide.
And no one has trashed hide here, only obsessive fangirls sometimes, who say hide is god and a saint and ect
I've not seen much of that. I HAVE seen threads like "ZOMG he killed himself to break up Yoshiki and Toshi/because he was jealous of them." Can you imagine how reading something like that would make Yoshiki feel if he showed up here? Let me tell you, a whole lot worse than "omg I wanna fuck you."
(no offense hideisgod :P ).
No offense? NO FUCKING OFFENSE? APOLOGIZE. You just called out one of my friends for no reason but her username. Wow, did you take a big dose of fucktard pills today?
I have no idea about two last lives (that post has been deleted anyway, if I'm not mistaken) and Without You for Toshi theory (which could be theorized in several ways) sounds, imo, way more believable than that hide and Yoshiki were lovers, sorry.
Except for the little fact that Yoshiki has repeatedly said that "Without You" was for hide. http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_yoshikilong.htm Source , http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_yoshikinet.htm source
THAT was ages ago and if it would be done today, it would be deleted.
Death threats. DEATH THREATS. Someone seriously expressing a desire to KILL SOMEONE. Not smile at them, not attend their concerts, not even offer their body as obviously offensive as that seems to be here. TO KILL THEM. I'd say death threats are a whole lot more fucking serious than a deletion-worthy offense. I'd say death threats deserve an immediate permaban, and especially if the person is in the same geographic location as the person being threatened, notification of law enforcement.
What someone does in real life is not up to me, AT ALL.
Yes, but providing the venue for such hatred to be nursed as that thread became. . .
I wouldn't say deleting spam is censorship.
But you have the wonkiest definition of spam I've ever seen! Here's a hint: OMG BUY FREE VIAGRA HERE NAO WE'RE YOSHIKI'S PRIVATE SELLER would be spam. News stories, rumors, and even fanboy/fangirl posts may be ANNOYING but they have no commercial purpose and are therefore NOT spam!
I beg your pardon, wat?
All these fucking rules. All these limits. All of this "we can't say this, we can't do this, we can't, we can't, we can't, we must be responsible and upright and. . ." WHAT THE FUCK. REALLY.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the only ones tearing the community apart at the moment, are you and a few others who just can't seem to move on from what most of this forum has a month ago.
The REASON we can't seem to fucking "move on," as you put it, is that you have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to solve the problems those incidents highlighted, you have and are contributing to them, and you DON'T GET IT.
De-admin PanthereNoire.
Learn how to manage a board for a band like X Japan (I'd suggest checking out a few other rock and metal communities online for starters, also reading some stuff about politics and forum management. . .)
Apologize for your personal attacks and the hypocrisy of the moderators.
Bring someone like Hollywood or Darkcat onto the mod staff.
THAT would be the kind of reforms that would make me convinced that you actually wanted to heal the rifts that have developed in this community over the last few months, and it would make us begin to trust you again. Trust is not given freely, it is earned, and right now your account is in the red for a lot of us.
Ummm, to my knowledge, no one here has been trying to convince Yoshiki about any devotion (I did PM him when I started this forum but I guess he missed that one). And that 'fuck you' was kinda weird there. Yoshiki to fuck you or us? Or us to fuck ourselves, or someone else...? Anyway, please make yourself a bit more clear last time.
You have no idea about PN's Yoshiki obsession?
By the way. . . resorting to grammar flames and "make yourself more clear next time" is a sign that you have no response to something or that you're suffering from a case of Asperger's by proxy server.
*shakes head* Unlike you, I have stuff to do. I've got to go out today and try to find my new apartment and get a new job and all of that delightful shit. So if anything here needs to be edited or deleted. . . yah, I won't be back until later. . . 8)
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Learn how to manage a board for a band like X Japan (I'd suggest checking out a few other rock and metal communities online for starters, also reading some stuff about politics and forum management. . .)
That shouldn't be the big deal, Lucs is in the staff and Hypno can also ask me, but I doubt that's necessary. :lol:
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Source 1 (http://www.x-japan.de/interviews/perfect.htm)
If that's not good enough, how about Yoshiki's own myspace. (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=14155082&albumID=159338&imageID=22945895)
And another one. (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=14155082&blogID=116320377&Mytoken=73A6CA89-B6C0-4880-BC20F5B97EB617EB165509123)
It was hide.
First one I didn't have time to read, but a quick search for 'hide' 'best' and 'friend' resulted in nothing else than a mention of Toshi as 'who had been his best friend from childhood', and hide as 'whom he respected most'. The second is a picture with a doll... Taken this year... He might think of hide as his best friend now, but that doesn't mean he did it prior to his death. And the third blog just says hide will be remembered forever. Nothing concrete that says hide was his best friend.
I've not seen much of that. I HAVE seen threads like "ZOMG he killed himself to break up Yoshiki and Toshi/because he was jealous of them." Can you imagine how reading something like that would make Yoshiki feel if he showed up here? Let me tell you, a whole lot worse than "omg I wanna fuck you."
Hmm Yoshiki and Toshi weren't speaking with each other at the time he killed himself... Soo... I don't know where are you getting at, I haven't noticed any such threads here, but next time report them, k?
No offense? NO FUCKING OFFENSE? APOLOGIZE. You just called out one of my friends for no reason but her username. Wow, did you take a big dose of fucktard pills today?
Umm I don't think I'm the one who missed some pills today. What I meant was, that the bashing that was here once, LONG time ago, was for fans who thought hide was a god, and that I didn't mean to offend the user, hideisgod, with my statement and that I didn't think badly about her because of her username (I try to judge by actions).
Except for the little fact that Yoshiki has repeatedly said that "Without You" was for hide. http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_yoshikilong.htm Source , http://www.xradicaldreamers.net/xjapan/iv_yoshikinet.htm source
First of all, I don't care who it was written for, it's a fucking awesome song. Secondly, translations from Japanese CAN be tricky and there might be mistakes. Thirdly, the 'for Toshi' thing could be theorized to be true in several ways, which I'm not going to explain further here. Fourthly, I have given a few interviews myself and you shouldn't take everything said there as 100% truth, as they are (usually) not planned ahead and might be different from the truth/reality because of the emotional condition of the person interviewed (and a lot of other factors, which I won't explain here either).
Death threats. DEATH THREATS. Someone seriously expressing a desire to KILL SOMEONE. Not smile at them, not attend their concerts, not even offer their body as obviously offensive as that seems to be here. TO KILL THEM. I'd say death threats are a whole lot more fucking serious than a deletion-worthy offense. I'd say death threats deserve an immediate permaban, and especially if the person is in the same geographic location as the person being threatened, notification of law enforcement.
First of all, there weren't any serious death threats. Secondly, if they would result in permaban, there wouldn't be an XFF right now (I would be banned also, among quite a few other people here).
Yes, but providing the venue for such hatred to be nursed as that thread became. . .
The person under question (unless I'm mistaken harshly) posted the abovementioned piece of writing on MySpace blog. Anyway, why do you keep digging in the past? I bet I could dig a thing or two about you also. But I won't.
But you have the wonkiest definition of spam I've ever seen! Here's a hint: OMG BUY FREE VIAGRA HERE NAO WE'RE YOSHIKI'S PRIVATE SELLER would be spam. News stories, rumors, and even fanboy/fangirl posts may be ANNOYING but they have no commercial purpose and are therefore NOT spam!
Forum spam, by definition- "... is the posting of advertisements, abusive, or unneeded messages on Internet forums."
All these fucking rules. All these limits. All of this "we can't say this, we can't do this, we can't, we can't, we can't, we must be responsible and upright and. . ." WHAT THE FUCK. REALLY.
By all means, they restrict you only as long as you are here. We had a 'Suggestions about the new rules' thread. Several actually. Sadly, they were turned into anti-PN threads for some reason.
The REASON we can't seem to fucking "move on," as you put it, is that you have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to solve the problems those incidents highlighted, you have and are contributing to them, and you DON'T GET IT.
No, I don't get it. I reached a consensus with the rest of you, who said PN was bad and such, by making rules so she couldn't be bad if she wanted to, without breaking the rules herself, hence getting deadminned. Everyone else seemed to agree, except for you.
De-admin PanthereNoire.
Learn how to manage a board for a band like X Japan (I'd suggest checking out a few other rock and metal communities online for starters, also reading some stuff about politics and forum management. . .)
Apologize for your personal attacks and the hypocrisy of the moderators.
Bring someone like Hollywood or Darkcat onto the mod staff.
Not unless she breaks any rules.
I'v been a mod/admin on quite a few boards AND I'm going to study politics (international relations) and law this autumn.
I hereby apologize to everyone who feel like I have attacked them unjustly, but I can't take responsibility for anyone else.
Neither Hollywood or Darkcat applied for the position. Darkcat is currently banned (by his own wish) and if you mean 'someone who sides with you/agrees with you on some points', then you have Hurley and VioletCamicat as moderators.
THAT would be the kind of reforms that would make me convinced that you actually wanted to heal the rifts that have developed in this community over the last few months, and it would make us begin to trust you again. Trust is not given freely, it is earned, and right now your account is in the red for a lot of us.
You might be surprised, but several people I have talked with would see the forum better off when YOU are banned. If some of them would get what they wanted, you'd be long gone already. Sadly for them, I have tried to give you second chances and whatnot.
You have no idea about PN's Yoshiki obsession?
By the way. . . resorting to grammar flames and "make yourself more clear next time" is a sign that you have no response to something or that you're suffering from a case of Asperger's by proxy server.
I have talked with PN about several topics and I haven't noticed anything like obsession. Admiration, yes, respect, yes. It won't come as a surprise if I say, imo, he's her favourite X member. But obsession is not what I'd call it.
Just adding 'fuck you' to the end of your sentence, I honestly don't get what you meant with that. And using fancy syndromes doesn't make you look cool here :)
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@ MiscastDice: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you having your fucking period or what? Stop complaining like a little kid and get out for a change. You know, maybe have a drink or score some girls?
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Evenom, I understand your concern, but please refrain from insulting MiscastDice. Also, I'm not 100% sure myself, but according to all sources MiscastDice is female...
EDIT: Sorry, I'm wrong, as he said himself, MiscastDice is indeed a guy.
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Sorry bro. I just think all the bitching is rather annoying, that's all. I'll try to act more "civlised", hehe.
I thought he/she was a male. If he/she's a woman, that would explain all the nagging..... *hides under his bed*
That last statement was meant tongue in cheek, before the XFF feminist squad want to kill me... :D
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Sorry bro. I just think all the bitching is rather annoying, that's all. I'll try to act more "civlised", hehe.
I thought he/she was a male. If he/she's a woman, that would explain all the nagging..... *hides under his bed*
That last statement was meant tongue in cheek, before the XFF feminist squad want to kill me... :D
I'm a man. [removed insult to avoid ban, hey, if JRR can do tax evasion, I can do ban evasion]
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@MiscastDice, as Hypno said, Hollywood did not apply for a mod position. This is because Hollywood would rather staple his hand to his forehead in the shape of an L than "work" for the current administration here and aid them in enforcing rules he finds laughably superfluous. And there are too many mods already. But I do appreciate the sentiment and the vote of confidence, and thanks for that. :)
Camicat and Hurley are indeed cool mods with good heads on their shoulders, which means that, as expected, everything they say (at least publicly) that does not line up with what the admins are saying gets completely ignored by the admins.
Evenom, I understand your concern, but please refrain from insulting MiscastDice. Also, I'm not 100% sure myself, but according to all sources MiscastDice is female...
I don't know and honestly don't care what MD's gender or sexual orientation is, but as he presents himself as a man-- aside of his statement just now, I remember he said "I'm a guy" on the X Freaks gender survey-- I call him "he" and treat him as such.
This is the internet. I have no way of knowing that you're not Shakira (if by chance you are, can I have your number?). You have no way of knowing I'm not Paris Hilton. But you say you're a male X fan from Estonia, so out of respect to you I go with that. That's one of those bare-minimum respect things.
As far as I'm concerned you're wrong about MD anyway, since he just said he's a man. But you clearly thought you were "outing" him, so the intention is there. That's low, Hypno. That's really fucking low. I thought you were better than that. Spreading rumors about one of your users' RL, and on a thread where such a thing is completely off-topic anyway... that's class.
I'm not saying I agree with everything MD has said or done, because I don't. But Hypno, this really crosses the line.
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I don't know and honestly don't care what MD's gender or sexual orientation is, but as he presents himself as a man-- aside of his statement just now, I remember he said "I'm a guy" on the X Freaks gender survey-- I call him "he" and treat him as such.
Ummm sorry for not remembering every post he made (btw I have edited my post also), but what I heard is what I heard. I didn't say MD is a female for sure, I even said I wasn't sure. And honestly, it wouldn't make any difference to me, as I honestly don't care. The only reason I even said so, was because MD being a female would have made Evenom's post look weird... And I wasn't trying to 'out' him in any way...
Sometimes I feel so misunderstood :(
EDIT: And I'm also forced to ask you, MiscastDice, not to make unproven accusations about anyone, specially on a thread totally unrelated (yes, I'm hinting to the JRR thing).
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Camicat and Hurley are indeed cool mods with good heads on their shoulders, which means that, as expected, everything they say (at least publicly) that does not line up with what the admins are saying gets completely ignored by the admins
And you know that how exactly? Show me exmaples please.
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No offense? NO FUCKING OFFENSE? APOLOGIZE. You just called out one of my friends for no reason but her username. Wow, did you take a big dose of fucktard pills today?
I don't think I'm the one who missed some pills today. What I meant was, that the bashing that was here once, LONG time ago, was for fans who thought hide was a god, and that I didn't mean to offend the user, hideisgod, with my statement and that I didn't think badly about her because of her username (I try to judge by actions).
Um, okay. I know I am kind of "barging in" here, but I really do hope you guys aren't judging me for my username.
And seriously, guys. I used to browse these forums way before I joined. I read the posts and everything...it was almost like I was a member but I didn't have a username.
What the hell has happened to this place?
I've been a member of forums before, obviously. And none of them have turned out like this. There are, what, 35 members tops who post here, and this is the hell that's broken loose?
I'm really not trying to start anything here, just pointing out what's probably very obvious, or at least should be.
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I'm probably not stating anything new here, but well..
The forum is starting to feel a bit restricted and I'm (we're?) not so comfortable with the atmosphere anymore. I'm not saying I don't support the decision to remove those pointless thread showing up recently, but things are just too strict. I find it a bit regrettable that it turned out like this.
It's good to see Jack Bauer back in action though!
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Personally, I really don't see how the new rules change anything for normal user... the new rules just concerns some people who don't act normally.
See, Hypno and Hollywood don't agree on some subjects (even concerning the rules of the forum), but in NO WAY Hollywood will get banned ever imo. Even if he thinks some things aren't good now, he gives his opinion without insulting or anything else. He doesn't either make pointless post.
The staff is not trying to make everyone think the same and all, I think we're just trying to avoid what in french we call "boulet" (I guess it would be troll or something like that in English).
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Um, okay. I know I am kind of "barging in" here, but I really do hope you guys aren't judging me for my username.
Yeah that's what I tried to say, as I thought you might else get offended about my "obsessive fangirls sometimes, who say hide is god and a saint and ect", because I didn't mean you (or anyone else specifically) here.
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Btw, as I was just working in the membergroups, there are currently 7 moderators. I really don't think it's that much for a forum of this size.
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The forum is starting to feel a bit restricted and I'm (we're?) not so comfortable with the atmosphere anymore. I'm not saying I don't support the decision to remove those pointless thread showing up recently, but things are just too strict. I find it a bit regrettable that it turned out like this.
It wasn't my intention to even make my appearance on this thread but I felt like, as a user of this forum, that I had to agree with alex. I believe I am too, starting to feel uncomfortable. I'm starting to think and rethink a lot about what I say before I actually say it (or might I break some rule or disturb somebody's peace of mind) and that's not good. Result: lack of activity from a lot of people who share this insecurity and increase of the number of 'neutral' observers. In practical terms, I'm starting to consider the option of not even logging in anymore, but staying as a mere sneak-peaker for the news and dicussions without actually participating.
I don't agree when people say that user A or B was the origin of this disturbance. In my humble opinion, up to this point, everyone is equally guilty in their own way. It's just been pushed too far. Some people have different personalities, different theories, different views. I don't think we should immediately label controvesial/polemic posters as disasters who can't bring anything of good to the forum. Diversity (as long as it's not worthless) makes it interesting.
We have to keep one thing in mind, though. Hypno is the administrator of this forum. He created it and he has the legitimate right to do whatever he wants with it. Authority is authority, nothing can be done against it. This way, people who don't agree with the ongoing rules (and I am NOT, in no way, saying that I agree or disagree with them) should simply not join and/or leave the forum and create their own. After, of course, having exposed their point and made their suggestions. I'm being this blunt and radical for the simple reason that I don't see a way out of these recent arguments. Two «teams» have been created and the ideologies are incommensurable. There's nothing to be done about each one's personal opinions and convictions. Nobody, and I emphasise nobody in here, has the right to change anyone's mind. Nor to force them (even if subtly) to believe a certain theory or follow a certain line of thought.
I am absolutely neutral in this thread; I don't take anyone's side, don't share any opinion, don't mean to deffend/attack anyone at all. I simply share the umcomfortable feeling. This way, here's my suggestion: everyone, read the rules again. If you find yourself offended by them, if you don't agree with them or think they impose limits on one's freedom of expression, leave or quit being an active member.
On a brighter note (because I hate to sound this drastical in a place like this), we should not forget that this is a MUSIC forum. Let's make it what it is. We're not here to argue about anyone's fanatism, anyone's theories, anyone's lifestyle. You're entitled to be who you are and nobody should gag anyone just because they disagree with them. This is for the discussion of the music and activity of a band and we all should make an effort to coexist with fellow fans, much cliche as this might sound.
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Very good post in my opinion mastumoto.
I think that if we stop talking about how this forum is now and how it was before, everything would just be fine.
As I said before, if you don't post useless or offensive post, there is no need to worry about anything. You won't get warned or anything else. Everything will just be fine !
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And you know that how exactly? Show me exmaples please.
There are some on either that thread you removed from public view or the one I opened after that one was locked; for one thing, I vividly remember Hurley saying he didn't want any additional rules (this was before the rules were announced). And all through the whole thing, Hypno has spoken so as to imply that ALL the staff are in favor of all the changes that have happened here.
Another, more recent example is the "rules poll" fiasco. Camicat, Hurley, and Lucs all supported that. So where's the poll? Oh, right-- "we're discussing it". Just like changes to the rules are also being "discussed".
I opened that poll thread on June 29th. It's now July 17th. And yet, the new rules were, according to Hypno in the last post of the "Suggestion: let people talk" thread, enacted after five days. How long was the staff given to discuss the final draft of the new rules before they went live? (I'm asking because I honestly forget, someone remind me of this one?)
And out of curiosity, how long was the staff given to discuss the changing of the board software before THAT went live?
Nothing new here, this is X Freaks business as usual: changes, no matter how sweeping, can be-- and are-- enacted nearly overnight. But any discussion about modifications to those changes is eternally delayed in hopes that people will give up and forget about it. How much discussion is needed to put a damn header at the top of the page that says "photos are property of their respective owners" or whatever, since Hypno supposedly wants that? That's a lot easier to do than switching the entire forum over to new software, you know. This whole thing is so transparent it's become like a running joke (and a pretty amusing one at that).
@Lucs, "trying to avoid trolls" by enacting new rules is a complete fallacy. You do realize that no one (other than PN) was trolling or being abusive UNTIL the PN and new rules drama began? I've said this before and I'll say it again: thanks to the new rules and new administrative style, you've created your own monsters here. Congratulations.
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@Lucs, "trying to avoid trolls" by enacting new rules is a complete fallacy. You do realize that no one (other than PN) was trolling or being abusive UNTIL the PN and new rules drama began? I've said this before and I'll say it again: thanks to the new rules and new administrative style, you've created your own monsters here. Congratulations.
The only three persons that "suffered" the rules are Darkcat, Miscast Dice and Radical Pan. Nobody else has and will as long as they behave like they behave now, so I really don't see what the problem is.
About the new forum, I took MY time to install it, transfer the datas etc... it's my free time. The other things your are talking about aren't things I can actually do. But well, once again, we make some changes, but still, you are not satisfied... it's why I really doubt that when the poll is created and the photos rules changed you'll stop complaining...
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Even though there were some moderators who didn't manage to voice their opinions yet, I have changed rule #12.
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The only three persons that "suffered" the rules are Darkcat, Miscast Dice and Radical Pan. Nobody else has and will as long as they behave like they behave now, so I really don't see what the problem is.
You're avoiding the issue. The point is, the rules are unnecessary. The only reason you've offered for why the rules exist is, basically, "to keep people from behaving like darkcat/MD/Pan". That's not a valid reason, because those three people were not troublemakers until AFTER all the recent drama.
I love how many different reasons I keep being given for why the new rules exist at all, I really do. It's more or less a new excuse every week. Let's see if I can remember them all:
1. They're there because of PN's behavior.
2. They have nothing to do with PN, they're there because Hypno always meant to make new rules anyway and the timing is just an incredible coincidence.
3. They're there because PN told Hypno he could get sued if he doesn't make new rules.
4. They're there to keep normal users from turning into trolls, nevermind that this had never happened before and the "trolling" users are only "trolling" out of anger at the new rules.
Did I forget anything?
About the new forum, I took MY time to install it, transfer the datas etc... it's my free time.
So? That's your choice, you certainly didn't have to spend your free time doing that. I also have spent a lot of my own free time generating content and discussion for this forum, and out of my own free will: I didn't have to do that any more than you had to install the new software.
But well, once again, we make some changes, but still, you are not satisfied...
What changes, the new forum? Are you serious? When the hell did I-- or anyone else who is dissatisfied lately-- say "everything would be better if only we had new forum software"? No one asked for that, just like no one asked for new rules. It's like someone ordering a cheeseburger and you bring them a hat. And then get all indignant that they still want a cheeseburger. So you also bring them an umbrella.
it's why I really doubt that when the poll is created and the photos rules changed you'll stop complaining...
Oh, so is this the new excuse for why there won't be a poll and the photo rules won't be changed? I don't think you get it. The poll is not about me. The poll is about finally giving people an opportunity to easily and publicly voice their opinion, whether for or against, on what they think about the new rules and the direction this forum has taken.
Why would you NOT want that? How can you possibly find that harmful or inappropriate? And why has it taken over two weeks to "discuss" this, while sweeping changes that no one wanted happen nearly overnight?
EDITED TO ADD:
The new rule #12 is much better, thanks Hypno.
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"everything would be better if only we had new forum software"?
Well, you can merge now threads, so I think that's an improvement to the situation where when double-threads existed one had to be closed.
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The poll is about finally giving people an opportunity to easily and publicly voice their opinion, whether for or against, on what they think about the new rules and the direction this forum has taken.
You've already had enough opportunities to do that in SEVERAL threads but they turned into a "why PN is Hitler, (later) Hypno Mussolini and ferret Stalin and should be stopped before there is forum holocaust" topic, and I have the feeling this poll will turn out exactly the same way.
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Before writing my reply, I just want to know why you are being so aggressive ? I try to answer politely giving you my opinion of what is going and why the staff made certain changes. I think this conversation would be much better without this "aggressivity", just you asking, me replying, talking about stuffs etc...
You're avoiding the issue. The point is, the rules are unnecessary. The only reason you've offered for why the rules exist is, basically, "to keep people from behaving like darkcat/MD/Pan". That's not a valid reason, because those three people were not troublemakers until AFTER all the recent drama.
Well, why did they start acting like that anyway ? There're no good reason to do so. Even though, in my opinion, some members weren't acting good before the rules (that's just my opinion).
At least, even though I think you complain a lot, you haven't started acting like an idiot when we made the new rules (I say we, but I wasn't in the staff when it was done). You discuss them, and I, personnaly, appreciate that much more than trying to see what happens if we broke a rule.
I love how many different reasons I keep being given for why the new rules exist at all, I really do. It's more or less a new excuse every week. Let's see if I can remember them all:
1. They're there because of PN's behavior.
2. They have nothing to do with PN, they're there because Hypno always meant to make new rules anyway and the timing is just an incredible coincidence.
3. They're there because PN told Hypno he could get sued if he doesn't make new rules.
4. They're there to keep normal users from turning into trolls, nevermind that this had never happened before and the "trolling" users are only "trolling" out of anger at the new rules.
I personally haven't heard at any moment that these new rules were related in any way with PN. I just think they are necessary for a forum that is growing like this one. Again, this is my opinion.
About the new forum, I took MY time to install it, transfer the datas etc... it's my free time.
So? That's your choice, you certainly didn't have to spend your free time doing that. I also have spent a lot of my own free time generating content and discussion for this forum, and out of my own free will: I didn't have to do that any more than you had to install the new software.
What changes, the new forum? Are you serious? When the hell did I-- or anyone else who is dissatisfied lately-- say "everything would be better if only we had new forum software"? No one asked for that, just like no one asked for new rules. It's like someone ordering a cheeseburger and you bring them a hat. And then get all indignant that they still want a cheeseburger. So you also bring them an umbrella.
I think you misunderstood me, cause I really don't understand why you take it like that. But the comparison is fun ;D
What I wanted to say is that it was me who made the new forum, and the others things you said that had to be done didn't "belong" to me. I wasn't saying that I was a so generous person because I gave my free time, I like doing that, it's a passion, it's my job.
And again, the reason we upgraded the forum were :
- New options (like merging topics, which is very important and useful)
- Security reason (the other forum was old, getting lots of bots and could get hack very easily)
Oh, so is this the new excuse for why there won't be a poll and the photo rules won't be changed? I don't think you get it. The poll is not about me. The poll is about finally giving people an opportunity to easily and publicly voice their opinion, whether for or against, on what they think about the new rules and the direction this forum has taken.
It's not an excuse, it was just my opinion about that. I still think making a poll would be a good idea. First make a lock topic so people can only vote, then, after we have some results that seem representative, we talk about it and take actions.
Please, if you have any more question or anything else to add, don't be so aggressive (maybe you weren't, but while reading, I was feeling like you were being aggressive, but it's always hard to know as I can't "hear" you, I can just read you). Thanks !
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Thank you for altering Rule #12, much appreciated.
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The only three persons that "suffered" the rules are Darkcat, Miscast Dice and Radical Pan. Nobody else has and will as long as they behave like they behave now, so I really don't see what the problem is.
You're avoiding the issue. The point is, the rules are unnecessary. The only reason you've offered for why the rules exist is, basically, "to keep people from behaving like darkcat/MD/Pan". That's not a valid reason, because those three people were not troublemakers until AFTER all the recent drama.
Just a random example, I'm sure there were plenty in the past few years, but there was an incident where Darkcat called PN a 'puta' (I'm sure you know enough Spanish to understand). What did we do? Nothing really! I still don't understand what's wrong with the rules we have. 'We don't want them' is not an argument. I didn't want the underage alcohol prohibition law when I was underage, but did I have a choice? (Ok I actually agreed with it, but that's just an example, so imagine I didn't).
I love how many different reasons I keep being given for why the new rules exist at all, I really do. It's more or less a new excuse every week. Let's see if I can remember them all:
1. They're there because of PN's behavior.
2. They have nothing to do with PN, they're there because Hypno always meant to make new rules anyway and the timing is just an incredible coincidence.
3. They're there because PN told Hypno he could get sued if he doesn't make new rules.
4. They're there to keep normal users from turning into trolls, nevermind that this had never happened before and the "trolling" users are only "trolling" out of anger at the new rules.
1. Partly. You didn't agree with her behavior, I did, arguing about it was pointless, so I set up the rules that more or less strictly told what is ok and what is not.
2. Timing was bad, the rules would have been needed before the March concerts even. I was just lazy.
3. Oh I knew that I could get sued before PN registered here actually. One reason for the rules, though, is indeed to lessen those risks (which are small anyway).
4. As mentioned above, we have had incidents before. Some older members should also remember hyderix?
What changes, the new forum? Are you serious? When the hell did I-- or anyone else who is dissatisfied lately-- say "everything would be better if only we had new forum software"? No one asked for that, just like no one asked for new rules. It's like someone ordering a cheeseburger and you bring them a hat. And then get all indignant that they still want a cheeseburger. So you also bring them an umbrella.
Actually, the new software was not installed because of you...
Oh, so is this the new excuse for why there won't be a poll and the photo rules won't be changed? I don't think you get it. The poll is not about me. The poll is about finally giving people an opportunity to easily and publicly voice their opinion, whether for or against, on what they think about the new rules and the direction this forum has taken.
I didn't want to make the poll before I had made the global photo disclaimer and some moderators hadn't spoken on that topic yet but I guess you were right, it has taken a bit too long.
And ferret, why do I have to be Mussolini? I wanted to be The Shōwa Emperor Hirohito!
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And ferret, why do I have to be Mussolini? I wanted to be The Shōwa Emperor Hirohito!
I knew you'd ask that. I wanted the third fascist be an European, too, so it's either Mussolini or the Spanish dude :P You can still he Hirohito, though.
And I miss hyderix, he was pretty entertaining.
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Here's the rules I have issues with:
3. Please try to watch your language. There are minors on this board, so avoid the use of profanity as much as possible, specially against other members of the board.
NO. There shouldn't be a rule like this, especially with X's own lyrics and the language the band members use (honestly, what next, asking Yoshiki not to post to his blog lest a minor learn of his love for the word "fuck"?) Minors shouldn't even BE in X fandom unless they are mature enough to understand OR their parents are OK with it (and by minors I mean anyone under 15 or 16, not the US law of 18 as the age of majority). Honestly, there are no X concerts, few PVs, few lyrics that would qualify as kid-appropriate, at least according to American culture. WHY should we have to make our discourse on the band something that the band itself is not?
I'd say this rule needs to be deleted and subsumed into the no personal attacks rule. Use whatever fucking language you want to, but don't swear at other users unless they're ok with it. "This song is fucking kickass" should be fine, "you are a fucking asshole" should be covered under personal attacks.
8. Do not post news not confirmed by official sources as facts. Official sources are official homepages and MySpaces of the band and the members, press conferences, interviews, also JRR.
News exists beyond the artists' sources. I would say that as well as the artists, we need to include major broadcast or print media (since their fact-checking is better than JRRs or the artists' and they're often first on the story if it's something like a death or an arrest). For example, if something has made the NHK, the Daily Yomiuri/Asahi Shimbun/Japan Times in Japan, or a news broadcast on MSNBC/CNN/local news stations or the Los Angeles Times in the US, it is no longer a "rumor." It is legit news and should be treated as such. Unless you really are convinced that JRR is more trustworthy than a major newspaper. :lol:
10. No news from sources that are subscription only, that require the subscribers to sign a nondisclosure agreement. In less legal terms, they agree not to repost anything they learned from the subscribed to source. This includes YoshikiMobile.
This rule needs to be thrown out. It's the user's own responsibility if they choose to break the YM TOS, for example, NOT the board's.
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another thing i find sort of ridiculous, not about the rules, but about miscastdice's argumentation:
nobody understands the song's lyrics, unless they're english or the people in question speak japanese (and i doubt that lots of people here do), so dont try to back up your arguments with this lyrics thing. that rule just needs to be loosened without any reason, swearing is human nature.
nothing personal dude, i do love swearing too and think swearing fuck and shit and cunt shouldnt be a problem here.
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3. Please try to watch your language. There are minors on this board, so avoid the use of profanity as much as possible, specially against other members of the board.
+ rambling
We're not the band.
If they were misbehaving when they were youths, that has nothing to do with the order of the forum.
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Thank You for the poll.
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Rule 3 says TRY to watch your language, not "You aren't allowed to swear on this forum." Nobodys saying you can't swear. You aren't going to get warned for saying "Wow, IV fucking rules!" Or "Fucking hell, i broke my nail." i mean, nobodys going to care! But if you say "Fuck" in every post, well, thats where "TRY to watch your language" comes in. Common courtesy you know? And obviously of course if you're going to swear at a certain member, well... You know what happens. ;)
I dunno... It just seems to me that you guys want a laid back forum yet you bring up all these complex arguments and points about the rules that really AREN't that complex. If you guys just chillax, everything will work out, just give it time. :) I'm not saying its not a case of "If you can't beat them (admins, mods, or whoever) join them." its a case of just accepting and following these rules that are in place for a TRIAL PERIOD and may be changed in the future. So yeah... Just stop complaining and instead of wasting all your energy on long, repetitive posts talk about other things, like for example... X Japan? :P
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Here's the rules I have issues with:
3. Please try to watch your language. There are minors on this board, so avoid the use of profanity as much as possible, specially against other members of the board.
Shit man, please read the rule 3 more times. As much as possible! Have we ever warned anyone for saying fuck? It's just that I believe that mature people can have a normal discussion/conversation without swearing after every three words.
8. Do not post news not confirmed by official sources as facts. Official sources are official homepages and MySpaces of the band and the members, press conferences, interviews, also JRR.
If you consider Nikkan Sports a major newspaper, then good luck. You are allowed to post those articles, discuss about them, but not as facts, when they might not be.
10. No news from sources that are subscription only, that require the subscribers to sign a nondisclosure agreement. In less legal terms, they agree not to repost anything they learned from the subscribed to source. This includes YoshikiMobile.
If you are really dying to know what Yoshiki had for breakfast, you'll find YM messages posted elsewhere also. The important news that are sent there usually are made official in a few days anyway. Or they will be printed on the sports pages of a newspaper, which means you can post it here as a rumor.
These were quick answers, so you wouldn't say I'm ignoring you or anything. This topic, however, is not for discussion about the rules. If you want to talk about them, wait until the poll ends.
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'We don't want them' is not an argument.
Why isn't it? Judging by the poll so far, clearly I'm not the only one who takes issue with at least some of the new rules.
And thanks for the poll by the way! I'm glad to see it and really appreciate that.
I didn't want the underage alcohol prohibition law when I was underage, but did I have a choice?
This is part of the problem right here: users are being treated like children, when in fact many of those who dislike the new rules are in the 20-30 range (and some above). And regardless of age, everyone here has been exposed to adult material via X and would most probably like to be treated as an adult. (I share MiscastDice's opinion that kids and young teens shouldn't be on an X board anyway.)
This topic, however, is not for discussion about the rules. If you want to talk about them, wait until the poll ends.
This thread is in the offtopic section, why does it matter what people discuss on it?
And... uh, what? People are not to talk about the rules until the poll ends? Why the hell not? Please don't twist the poll into another shut-up tactic.
But this one takes the cake:
We're not the band.
If they were misbehaving when they were youths, that has nothing to do with the order of the forum.
So, if somehow the X members were to join the forum and act like themselves, they'd be banned? From a forum about X?
Best one EVER.
This isn't a Hannah Montana forum. X was about breaking rules, shocking the masses, doing your own thing, being provocative, and just generally saying (to borrow a line from Attitude) "fuck the system". What in the fucking world makes anyone think that fans of this type of band would appreciate a prim, restrictive, rule-obsessed forum? It's a mockery of X, frankly. And as someone who loves the band, it breaks my fucking heart to see this ridiculous attempt to "clean up" X and its fans.
"We're not the band." That's for goddamn sure. RIP X Freaks, that was a coffin nail if I've ever heard one.
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Rule number 10 is complete BS. As i've said in the past, this forum cannot be held responsible for what the users post. When you first sign up, that is in the registration terms.
If it's in the sign up terms, it can't hurt being in the forum rules as well ;)
Rule number 10 says you cant post information from somewhere like YM. The sign up terms dont. The sign up terms say that forum owners cant be held responsible. Therefore posting stuff from YM or any other subscription based site/whatever cannot get you in trouble, so why not let people post the information? If someone has a subscription and wants to break the agreement that THEY agreed to, only that user can be held responsible. We should be allowed to post the information for the non-Japanese users.
The point I was trying to make is that YOU cannot be held responsible for any information posted here so having a rule saying we CANT post information from a legit source is silly.
I don't agree when people say that user A or B was the origin of this disturbance. In my humble opinion, up to this point, everyone is equally guilty in their own way.
Not sure who said this but I just want to state that I agree with this. I stated it in my original post and we all have a part in this. I believe some caused more grief than others but everyone had a part in it.
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Okay, I'll have to post here now ... :/
I didn't read EVERYTHING in here, but the most ... so ...
First: I don't really see any problem here atm. Unless all this needless fighting around ... well, PN, the forum atmosphere, the rules ... blah. While IMO this things don't create problems themselves, the all time complaining DOES. Just what I think.
Otherwise ... I don't really think this forum is rule-obsessed and over-strict and god knows what. And the argument, that X is/was provoking and rule breaking and whatever, too and this is a forum about the band ... Yeah, that's true. But still I don't think a forum about such a band would be good if there was nonstop swearing in every single post. o_o WHAT ISN'T THE FACT, I know. But it isn't that terrible to have a rule about this ...? What's your problem? I don't see it.
I am tired, so I forgot half of the things I wanted to write, but I hope I could get a bit clear nevertheless. x_x
Oh, and btw ... Just because we are X fans doesn't mean we all are ... some outlaws, swearing all the time, drinking beer and destroying hotel rooms or something xD; And that's not just an info page about X, it is a discussion forum. It's not only about the band, but also about the people here. They want to get along well with each other. Therefore the rules exist.
does anybody understand what I'm trying to say here? XD (serious ... *tired*)
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This isn't a Hannah Montana forum. X was about breaking rules, shocking the masses, doing your own thing, being provocative, and just generally saying (to borrow a line from Attitude) "fuck the system". What in the fucking world makes anyone think that fans of this type of band would appreciate a prim, restrictive, rule-obsessed forum? It's a mockery of X, frankly. And as someone who loves the band, it breaks my fucking heart to see this ridiculous attempt to "clean up" X and its fans.
I don't really see what that has today with anything. I mean, a band like Pagan Altar (to name my favorite band, haha) used to be all about occultism and shit, but I don't think the mods of the official Pagan Altar Fanclub board (and the band members themselves) would appreciate it if some psycho occultist comes online to tell us all that Satan is coming and the end is nigh and shit.
That said, I do agree with some of the things people mention in this thread, but seriously, does it bother you THAT much? I haven't really noticed a big difference since I started posting here, but that could be me.... Seems to me that this all started with the MiscastDice/PN shit.....
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drinking bear
You crazy german lol :D :D :D
I totally agree with you though.
A forum doesn't have to be like the attitude of the band. Yeah, in the 80's X Japan's member where some hard rocker motherfucker's and all, so ? Do you really see the members of the band NOW swearing all the time and acting like crazy hard rocker ? Come on, now they are all cute, hugging each others with plushies on stage ! Which is much better in my opinion.
This forum is about people liking the same band, it's not about people acting like if they were member of that band. We are here in a community, like any other. The staff of this community choose how they want to deal with it. If we don't want porn and insults here, just respect it.
I also think that we reached a point where all your complaints are just USELESS. YOU are ruining the atmosphere of the forum with that. People just want to come here and have fun, they don't wanna see people arguing and all about some rules or wathever. So, really, if you don't like it so much, LEAVE ! Create your own forum with NO rules (funny that nobody chose this option in the poll as some here seemed to say that there should be no rules :P, but well). But please, pleaaaaaaaase, stop with all the complaints, it's really useless. It's really not as if you were trying to find solutions or what, you're just complaining to make the staff look stupid or I don't know what you want...
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drinking bear
Yeah, in the 80's X Japan's member where some hard rocker motherfucker's and all, so ? Do you really see the members of the band NOW swearing all the time and acting like crazy hard rocker ? Come on, now they are all cute, hugging each others with plushies on stage ! Which is much better in my opinion.
This topic has now turned into a petition to ban Lucs. The worst kind of X Japan fan.
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A forum doesn't have to be like the attitude of the band. Yeah, in the 80's X Japan's member where some hard rocker motherfucker's and all, so ? Do you really see the members of the band NOW swearing all the time and acting like crazy hard rocker ? Come on, now they are all cute, hugging each others with plushies on stage ! Which is much better in my opinion.
(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6186/acidloldv0.jpg)
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"A forum doesn't have to be like the attitude of the band. Yeah, in the 80's X Japan's member where some hard rocker motherfucker's and all, so ? Do you really see the members of the band NOW swearing all the time and acting like crazy hard rocker ? Come on, now they are all cute, hugging each others with plushies on stage ! Which is much better in my opinion."
CONGRATULATIONS
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"A forum doesn't have to be like the attitude of the band. Yeah, in the 80's X Japan's member where some hard rocker motherfucker's and all, so ? Do you really see the members of the band NOW swearing all the time and acting like crazy hard rocker ? Come on, now they are all cute, hugging each others with plushies on stage ! Which is much better in my opinion."
CONGRATULATIONS
Congratulations are indeed in order for Lucs. In one paragraph, he has summed up the problems with JRR and X-F and placed the last "rusty nail" in the coffin of this forum for many of us. Great job, man, great job.
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(funny that nobody chose this option in the poll as some here seemed to say that there should be no rules :P, but well)
That's likely because no one in the history of these discussions has ever said "I think we should have no rules". Ever. Seriously, if you can find one single post where someone has suggested that, please show me. It's also worth noting that no one has ever complained about the old rules.
But mostly I wanted to comment on this:
A forum doesn't have to be like the attitude of the band. Yeah, in the 80's X Japan's member where some hard rocker motherfucker's and all, so ? Do you really see the members of the band NOW swearing all the time and acting like crazy hard rocker ? Come on, now they are all cute, hugging each others with plushies on stage ! Which is much better in my opinion.
I was going to cite some examples that disprove these statements, but honestly, I'm still completely speechless.
Well, like I said, I know the sound of a coffin nail when I hear one-- and as of now I also know the sound of about ten coffin nails all at once.
RIP X Freaks. You were so fucking cool, once upon a time.
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So if you say RIP X-Freaks that means that you're leaving right ? Or you'll just stay here, on a forum you dislike, and complain forever ? I'm sure you have better things to do, and so do I.
Btw, I was just makin' fun of your statement man, it's so ridiculous, in my opinion, to think that a forum about a band should be just like the "attitude" of the band. I can't believe you took that seriously ;D ;D
But once again, you're complaining about the rules, but have you seen a lot of rules broken till we added them ? ??? Only MD and DC went all swearing everywhere which is unappropriated. Check any other forum (on music or any other theme) and tell me how many allows swearing (I'm not actually asking you to do that as, in my opinion, it would be a waste of time, I'm just saying that it's forbidden almost everywhere and it's a good thing).
And if you judge a forum just on my opinions, I'm really sad for you.
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Check any other forum (on music or any other theme) and tell me how many allows swearing (I'm not actually asking you to do that as, in my opinion, it would be a waste of time, I'm just saying that it's forbidden almost everywhere and it's a good thing).
I can think of many forums that don't care, more than those that do anyways. Every forum that I visit regularly doesn't really care and there isn't a problem with it. As far as the ones that do care goes...I don't know, I stopped visiting Neopets years ago.
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So people are insulting each others and everything's fine ?
I have no prob with people saying shit, fuckin', and stuffs like that as long as it's not directed to any other member of the forum btw. Maybe I wasn't clear on that...
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Btw, I was just makin' fun of your statement man, it's so ridiculous, in my opinion, to think that a forum about a band should be just like the "attitude" of the band.
Honestly, I'm laughing so hard right now I can barely type.
I mean: WOW! There's a forum about a band and people expect the forum to have something to do with that band! You're right, how completely fucking ridiculous is THAT?
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That's not what I mean, my english is really THAT bad or what ?
What I'm saying is that it's not because the members of the band consider themselves as anarchist or wathever that a forum about them has to have NO RULES. (Just an example). Do you agree with that ? (I'm asking 'cause maybe there's a misunderstood...).
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What I'm saying is that it's not because the members of the band consider themselves as anarchist or wathever that a forum about them has to have NO RULES.
i absolutely support that. though i'm not entirely happy with the staff's moderation here, i have to say that only because x japan have once once been musicians with a punks attitude, doesnt mean fans have to act like that as well.
lets ust be ourselves, but behaving like someone else, just because we like their music... lol, im wondering, whether there are any "normal" x japan fans too, or is everybody a die hard crazy ass motherfucker with colored hair and leather boots and a fuck-the-system attitude...!
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http://roseandblood.lefora.com/forum/
ALRIGHT MOTHERFUCKERS ROSE AND BLOOD IS LIVE!
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So people are insulting each others and everything's fine ?
I have no prob with people saying shit, fuckin', and stuffs like that as long as it's not directed to any other member of the forum btw. Maybe I wasn't clear on that...
There's a line you have to draw. If you follow an admin around, calling her a fat bitch, that's one thing. If you say "XD You're a fucking idiot for having such a stupid opinion", that's another thing. One should be OK, one shouldn't. I mean, people are going to disagree, sometimes more harshly than others and if someone can't deal with that behind a computer screen, then god forbid you ever step outside your door.
We need to quit child proofing everything and just let things be. We've never had a harassment problem before, so all of this talk is neither here nor there. These rules are unwarranted and only add to the existing tension on the board.
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Well, here we don't allow a member saying to another is a fucking idiot. I really don't see how this could be useful anyway ? Just respect the other members that's all... I don't see how it's different in real life.
Well, thanks for making this forum MD and good luck with it, at least now we have two "complementary" forums, and I really think it's a good thing.
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I don't think you guys understand.
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So the only problem you have here is with one of the admin ?
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Voicing one's opinion and to complain aren't necessarily the same things. But if most opinions are treated as complaints, people are going to get insulted.
Also, it's doubtful that all members are, or want to be, outright bad-ass rockers themselves in their real life. Just because a forum allows room for movement doesn't have to mean that everybody's going to behave the same way. But then again, what if they are? Do we all have to be the same and fit into one cutesy mold?
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Voicing one's opinion and to complain aren't necessarily the same things. But if most opinions are treated as complaints, people are going to get insulted.
I totally agree with you. But for me, complaining is just saying "this is bad, that is bad etc..." without trying to suggest solutions.
Also, it's doubtful that all members are, or want to be, outright bad-ass rockers themselves in their real life. Just because a forum allows room for movement doesn't have to mean that everybody's going to behave the same way. But then again, what if they are? Do we all have to be the same and fit into one cutesy mold?
That's not what we want. I think Belle & Sebastian summed up very well what I was saying. It's just that the rules of the forum ask members to respect each others, that's it.
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That's not what we want. I think Belle & Sebastian summed up very well what I was saying. It's just that the rules of the forum ask members to respect each others, that's it.
I'm sure the good intention is there, and perhaps some people need to have this as a rule, although I would say that's a minority who are likely to break the rule anyway. To be respectful of each other is a basic unspoken rule in all social interactions, so does it really have to be down in writing? Anyway, I'm fine with it being there, although I find it to be overkill.
:P
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In my opinion, it really SHOULDN'T have to be written anywhere ! As you said, it's an unspoken rule in ALL social interactions.
Now the admins chose to write it, well, I don't have any problem with it as I was already respecting it before it was even written.
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Of course. Nevertheless, when a basic social courtesy becomes a written rule, it does give off the feel of being treated as preschool kids. "Now, now, children, let's all respect each other". LOL (Sorry if this is a repetition of what's already been rehashed over and over)
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Bye MD, good luck with the forum, I hope you don't feel the need to comment here anymore as you can bash us all over there now.
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Ferret, hey... I don't think that was necessary. 8)
MD, good luck! I will stop by for sure! :)
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I know, but I'm such a rebel I can't NOT go against the rules sometimes :P
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Wow. Just wow.
If some people want all of the forum members to either be assholes or be supposed to take every insult thrown at them - good riddance. I really don't think this is the board for you.
Do you honestly think i.e. Taiji would sign up to this board just to insult everyone he comes along?
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I can't even believe somebody actually thinks their web persona would match their eighties to early nineties stage persona.
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A forum doesn't have to be like the attitude of the band. Yeah, in the 80's X Japan's member where some hard rocker motherfucker's and all, so ? Do you really see the members of the band NOW swearing all the time and acting like crazy hard rocker ? Come on, now they are all cute, hugging each others with plushies on stage ! Which is much better in my opinion.
:o
I also think that we reached a point where all your complaints are just USELESS. YOU are ruining the atmosphere of the forum with that. People just want to come here and have fun, they don't wanna see people arguing and all about some rules or wathever.
Don't agree. And frankly - 99,5 percent of the threads is available for people to "come here and have fun". All they have to do to go and hug plushies is visit any of them, nobody has to read the few threads (like this one) devoted to current problems.
So, really, if you don't like it so much, LEAVE ! Create your own forum with NO rules (funny that nobody chose this option in the poll as some here seemed to say that there should be no rules Tongue, but well). But please, pleaaaaaaaase, stop with all the complaints, it's really useless. It's really not as if you were trying to find solutions or what, you're just complaining to make the staff look stupid or I don't know what you want...
Funny, as I don't really think Hollywood suggests to delete all rules. I think he realizes just as well as anybody else that "some" rules are really necessary. For all I remember, it has always been You who came and started saying that "we can't have a forum without rules, so people calm down", although such idea has not been proposed or at least widely supported.
Hollywood you haven;t even been here long enough to speak about the 'good times' once upon a time...
That really is a matter of opinion. I think he has, because certain period - or periods - here has really been very good and Hollywood was here through one of these.
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Hollywood you haven;t even been here long enough to speak about the 'good times' once upon a time...
Oh yeah? Both Hollywood and I were here for March 28, 29, and 30 of this year, which were some of the forum's best days. :D I remember then. . . that was when we all were happy over the concerts. . .
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Funny, as I don't really think Hollywood suggests to delete all rules. I think he realizes just as well as anybody else that "some" rules are really necessary. For all I remember, it has always been You who came and started saying that "we can't have a forum without rules, so people calm down", although such idea has not been proposed or at least widely supported.
Exactly. Lucs is very persistent in creating straw man arguments out of this. As I pointed out on the previous page of this thread-- and addressed to Lucs, though he (as I expected) didn't reply to it-- no one in the history of these discussions has ever suggested to remove ALL the rules. No one. Ever. As you (Lucs) will notice, and as you pointed out yourself, currently there are no votes in the poll for "no rules". That's not exactly a coincidence. No one is asking for that, nor has anyone ever asked for that. If you can point out so much as one post where someone says "let's throw out ALL the rules", please show that to me.
And I'd like to also point to Lucs, again, that no one had any problems with the old rules. So let's end the parade of straw men now, shall we?
As for no one suggesting solutions: plenty of solutions have been suggested, by me and by others, go back and read the old threads. I'm not going to repeat myself ad nauseum on points I've already made in the past, especially not for someone who's more interested in informing me that I want no rules (which is not true) than in actually reading what I type.
And as for "not having been here long enough", I've been active here since January and lurked for a while before that. But honestly, you don't have to have been here even for as long as that to notice that this place has taken a 180* turn from what it used to be. Four months or so would be sufficient. Unless you're trying to argue that this place has always been like this (and it clearly hasn't), I'm not sure what your point is.
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Ok, I'm following that disussion now quite a while and really felt like throwing back something several times. However, that won't be helpful here, and make it even worse. So I try to keep cool headed this time as much as I can.
Actually, I suggest all of you to have a look at quite some other threads but this. There has nothing changed really. The discussions go on like before, in a calm and senseful way like it actually was before, and how it should be now and hopefully will be in future.
Within that discussion, it seems you're complaining about the 'good old days' having gone. But what I think is, you can't see it anymore, since you concentrate on that here, to complain, to swear, to fight against each other.
If you want to have an atmosphere which suits a band as X is - honesly, THAT's the wrong way.
And for the record. I'm NOT speaking as a moderator, since I'm not really one in that sense. But I know, that the moderators and admins here do their best to find a good solution for every side - the users, the mods and admins themselves, AND everyone else who may have a look at this forum - even for the band. And that's the point. We should respect that band we love so much.
As for the rules... they are there - so what? To me nothing has changed really the situation now. Except of one thing that there are some persons who don't agree with them and try to ditch them ASAP no matter what happens and no matter how, swear like the devil himself and behave like a kindergarten! C'mon! Why is it neccessary to use such a rough tone??? I mean, the rules are NOT there to forbid people to write down their thoughts! And I am someone who HATES swearing since it makes no party feeling good.
I'd suggest to rather come down a bit again, have a drink, if you want, listen to good music and go and see what's written in other threads and share your thoughts there - instead of fighting against each other rather go along together. I mean, some of us met already RL, and that great atmosphere IS still there, and it's fun. Such as it should be here.
And fuck the sistem (sic! :P) YEAH sure, but even the hardest rockers follow rules - which are sometimes way stricter than those we have here - especcially those of Japanese rockers - you'd be surprised to see their discipline ;)
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Ok, I'm following that disussion now quite a while and really felt like throwing back something several times. However, that won't be helpful here, and make it even worse. So I try to keep cool headed this time as much as I can.
Actually, I suggest all of you to have a look at quite some other threads but this. There has nothing changed really. The discussions go on like before, in a calm and senseful way like it actually was before, and how it should be now and hopefully will be in future.
Within that discussion, it seems you're complaining about the 'good old days' having gone. But what I think is, you can't see it anymore, since you concentrate on that here, to complain, to swear, to fight against each other.
If you want to have an atmosphere which suits a band as X is - honesly, THAT's the wrong way.
And for the record. I'm NOT speaking as a moderator, since I'm not really one in that sense. But I know, that the moderators and admins here do their best to find a good solution for every side - the users, the mods and admins themselves, AND everyone else who may have a look at this forum - even for the band. And that's the point. We should respect that band we love so much.
As for the rules... they are there - so what? To me nothing has changed really the situation now. Except of one thing that there are some persons who don't agree with them and try to ditch them ASAP no matter what happens and no matter how, swear like the devil himself and behave like a kindergarten! C'mon! Why is it neccessary to use such a rough tone??? I mean, the rules are NOT there to forbid people to write down their thoughts! And I am someone who HATES swearing since it makes no party feeling good.
I'd suggest to rather come down a bit again, have a drink, if you want, listen to good music and go and see what's written in other threads and share your thoughts there - instead of fighting against each other rather go along together. I mean, some of us met already RL, and that great atmosphere IS still there, and it's fun. Such as it should be here.
And fuck the sistem (sic! :P) YEAH sure, but even the hardest rockers follow rules - which are sometimes way stricter than those we have here - especcially those of Japanese rockers - you'd be surprised to see their discipline ;)
Fuck strawmen, get sore~
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You guys, seriously.
I've been here since April 2007 and let me tell you, even though I didnt post much, I sure as hell can tell you it used to be nice and calm here.
Wow, what the hell?
I really don't like getting involved because I hate when people dislike me and also, I didn't even start this,
but really. It's gotten crazy.
As already been stated, have you guys even read X's lyrics?
Um, I'm pretty sure if there are people on here, they have. And the lyrics arent sunshine and rainbows. So, yeah, cursing shouldn't be a problem, but I think Lucs has already stated that its okay as long as its not directed at others, am I right? I do hope.
Another thing that I want to say is to agree with this.
Voicing one's opinion and to complain aren't necessarily the same things. But if most opinions are treated as complaints, people are going to get insulted.
Why is it such a problem that people want to say their opinions? Complaints are opinions too, I mean, if someone doesn't like something, it's their OPINION. And I really am not insulted or angry or anything right now, just felt like getting a few words out.
If that doesnt really make sense, I'm sorry, because I havent read the last page and I really dont feel like it.
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Lucs, I really wonder why you view Hollywood's posts as something negative. I believe forum administrators should strive for every user's satisfaction and not give up too quickly. From what I remember, he's counter-argued pretty much every single thing you said. Perhaps in an aggressive fashion, but always with valid points. My understanding is that he's never been here simply to mess with you.
As you probably know, he usually present his points well and his posts contain more substance than most ones on this forum. The fact that he is unhappy with the rules is something I'd hope for you admins to view as a failure, not a success. I hope, you, as a moderator, at least try to appreciate his dedication, as I would assume his efforts - for him - are to make this forum a better place. A goal you share in common, perhaps? How you hint that he just should leave looks a bit immature, as you indeed do represent the forum in a debate of this subject.
I guess it all depends on the way you guys wanna run this forum, though. If you don't want to deal with unhappy users, you don't have to (though if you didn't, I guess this thread would've been locked/deleted long ago).
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Well, I really would like to make things go better, but we, the staff, can't be the only ones to make an effort. If people don't even want to give a try to the new rules, it's not fair. Don't you think ? I mean, how could anyone know if they are good or not if we don't even give it a try ?
I just, personally, have the feeling that sometimes, reading Hollywood's posts (and not only his), his main goal is not to make things go better, but make the staff (and maybe some particular persons from the staff) look ridiculous. Maybe I wrong and I hope I am. It's just a feeling that I have.
Anyway, all this stuff is really boring me. I really tried to do the best, but it seems that I won't be able to do anything anyway.
Both sides has to make some efforts. We already changed the main rule that was asked to be changed, we made the poll about the rules, I really appreciate that Hollywood thanked us for that, but it doesn't really seem to me that it changed anything. As we say in french, you can't have the butter AND the money from the butter.
I really think that this discussion could go much more better if it was done in a more peaceful way.
@Hollywood, sorry, it's really hard to reply to EVERYTHING as there are so much things discussed at the same time. Maybe before making accusations you could just tell me I forgot to answer. I think I always reply to everything people ask me.
So about the NO RULES stuffs, I was refering to this post of MiscastDice :
All these fucking rules. All these limits. All of this "we can't say this, we can't do this, we can't, we can't, we can't, we must be responsible and upright and. . ." WHAT THE FUCK. REALLY.
This sentence made me think that he would vote the "No rules" option. It wasn't directed at you, but now I understand that, as I was quoting you, you thought it was for you.
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Lucs, you aren't understanding.
Just because I don't like a lot of rules, does not mean I want to break those rules. I don't even think I cuss THAT much anyways, so that's not the point. The point is that the rules are unnecessary. I've never seen or heard of a problem with people cussing excessively. A lot of the rules, in a lot of our opinions, are rules that no one (that we've seen) asked for. I believe what brought all of this to a head was the PanthereNoire situation. That's what we wanted to be taken care of and instead of Hypno listening to us, he chose to implement other rules. I'm not sure what he hoped would happen with these new rules, the new rules have done more harm than good and has just added to the tension between the members of the board.
Also, the new rules aren't something that you need to try to figure out if you like, it's not a new brand of Doritos or anything. You can read the rules and decide if you like them from that, there isn't really anything to try. You either like them, or you don't. As far as what Lucs said about the staff being the only ones trying, what exactly are you guys trying? What have you met us half way on? Nothing I can recall. The staff is a lot like the government. A government is put into place to serve its people. The staff is there to serve its members. Not the other way around.
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Just because I don't like a lot of rules, does not mean I want to break those rules. I don't even think I cuss THAT much anyways, so that's not the point. The point is that the rules are unnecessary. I've never seen or heard of a problem with people cussing excessively. A lot of the rules, in a lot of our opinions, are rules that no one (that we've seen) asked for. I believe what brought all of this to a head was the PanthereNoire situation. That's what we wanted to be taken care of and instead of Hypno listening to us, he chose to implement other rules. I'm not sure what he hoped would happen with these new rules, the new rules have done more harm than good and has just added to the tension between the members of the board.
I understood that. I'm not saying that everybody who don't agree with the rules want to break them. I just don't see what's the big deal is. Yes there are new rules, it doesn't affect you or most of the members (as I said, we had to applied like twice the new rules since they are there). It's why I said we should give the new rules a try, and see what happens. If you would manage to do that, we could then have a better discussion and make the changes needed.
Also, the new rules aren't something that you need to try to figure out if you like, it's not a new brand of Doritos or anything. You can read the rules and decide if you like them from that, there isn't really anything to try. You either like them, or you don't. As far as what Lucs said about the staff being the only ones trying, what exactly are you guys trying? What have you met us half way on? Nothing I can recall. The staff is a lot like the government. A government is put into place to serve its people. The staff is there to serve its members. Not the other way around.
Here I don't agree. I gave two examples : changing one of the rules, making the poll.
The forum is not a country. The staff is NOT a governement. We are just X-Japans fans who try to run a forum where we can all enjoy talking. Nobody owes noone anything. We are not serving you. If I am, I'm asking to be paid or to be set back as a regular user :P (joke, please don't take that seriously). We should just be talking about the band we like together.
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The forum is not a country. The staff is NOT a governement. We are just X-Japans fans who try to run a forum where we can all enjoy talking. Nobody owes noone anything. We are not serving you. If I am, I'm asking to be paid or to be set back as a regular user :P (joke, please don't take that seriously). We should just be talking about the band we like together.
Not serving us? Well, maybe we finally found out where the problem is. ;) I mean - no one wants you to polish our shoes or bow to "normal users", that's nonsense. But where do you think the difference between the founders of forums and "the others" is?
People like Hypno were brave and devoted enough to create something they have to take a regular care of and we all know that this job is pretty ungrateful. Running anything you are not paid for is always a form of... a sacrifice. ;) But this is also the difference - that you overcome your laziness because you want to.
Being a member of a staff should be taken as a deal, a privilege and the proof that people trust you. And yeah, it is a service.
Now, everybody, please, take your tomatoes and prepare it for throwing. :)
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I'm really starting to think that my english suck or I don't know what... what I meant is yeah, I'm not here to polish your shoes, you're not here to polish mine. That's it. Nothing more.
I took a lot of my time trying to give the best answers I could to everybody in this discussion, but what ? You just spit in my face !
But thanks, you found the solutions for every problem. Throwing tomatoes at people who doesn't think like you. I thought this was exactly what you didn't want anyone to do ?
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These virtual tomatoes should have been for me, so it's probably mine English that sucks. And I didn't want you to spit in anyone's face, this is just my idealistic way of thinking.
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The point I was trying to make is that YOU cannot be held responsible for any information posted here so having a rule saying we CANT post information from a legit source is silly.
Actually, if I as the forum owner and administrator allow this information to be posted, I can and probably will be held responsible. It would be the same, if I'd allow an illegal brothel to run in my apartment/house. Even though I don't deal with it myself, I knowingly allow it, so I'm guilty as well...
To MiscastDice- Good luck with your forum (though I find some rules a bit strange, but that's anther topic). I hope that everything you find missing in XFF you'll find there.
And Lucs, I think what SarahAlex meant is that she was afraid we are going to throw tomatoes at her? Anyway, I suggest you not do that. There are hungry children in Africa!
EDIT: Bingo... Thats why I try not to take something I read here too seriously. A misplaced word could twist the meaning of a whole post.
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And Lucs, I think what SarahAlex meant is that she was afraid we are going to throw tomatoes at her? Anyway, I suggest you not do that. There are hungry children in Africa!
EDIT: Bingo... Thats why I try not to take something I read here too seriously. A misplaced word could twist the meaning of a whole post.
Thanks, Hypno. I'm glad you're also worried about the hungry children. And don't forget about the kids in Asia! ;D
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Kids in Asia mostly have rice and anything green they could eat... African children can only eat sand...
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The point I was trying to make is that YOU cannot be held responsible for any information posted here so having a rule saying we CANT post information from a legit source is silly.
Actually, if I as the forum owner and administrator allow this information to be posted, I can and probably will be held responsible. It would be the same, if I'd allow an illegal brothel to run in my apartment/house. Even though I don't deal with it myself, I knowingly allow it, so I'm guilty as well...
Actually, you DON'T "knowingly" allow it unless every post is on moderated status or some such and you're signing off on each, allowing it to be posted. Rather than allowing an illegal brothel in your house, it's more like not questioning why your roommate is having sex several times a day with different people. Unless you're somehow involved in some way with it aside from owning the location, it's not your legal duty to make sure your roommate is not a prostitute and just has a lot of lovers.
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Hypno, did you just compare running a whore house out of your home to posting something Yoshiki said on the internet?
Anyways, I would like to see an example where a member of X Japan or their people sued someone for even posting something like that over the internet. And correct me if I'm wrong Hypno, but aren't you selling bootlegged X Japan items? And you're worried about someone posting a text message from Yoshiki? :D
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Just a small question, how have the new rules changed the users 'normal' life on this board? I really haven't realised a big change, most people still post as they did before and some issues like the 'pic disclaimer' have been resolved and the problem with 'two thread - same topic - one has to be closed - is also no more matter, thanks to the new board software. There are still some things were you could say 'Yeah, that's not perfect, maybe we should think 'bout that', but that's it, well, at least for me *g* So just take a step back, relax, chill and enjoy the day.
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Hypno, did you just compare running a whore house out of your home to posting something Yoshiki said on the internet?
Anyways, I would like to see an example where a member of X Japan or their people sued someone for even posting something like that over the internet. And correct me if I'm wrong Hypno, but aren't you selling bootlegged X Japan items? And you're worried about someone posting a text message from Yoshiki? :D
Yes, I thought you guys wanted more "X attitude stuff" here.
I don't know if there has been any incidents, but I wouldn't like to be the first one :)
And technically, I'm sending them to my friends and only asking for the money for the blank DVD and postage fees, which isn't any worse than you burning some X songs/vids to your friends and asking them to pay for the blank DVD.
MD, one of my jobs as an administrator here is to read through all the posts and be in touch with what's going on here. Your example about roommates is good, but here I know when I see someone posting a YM message.
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Just a small question, how have the new rules changed the users 'normal' life on this board? I really haven't realised a big change, most people still post as they did before and some issues like the 'pic disclaimer' have been resolved and the problem with 'two thread - same topic - one has to be closed - is also no more matter, thanks to the new board software. There are still some things were you could say 'Yeah, that's not perfect, maybe we should think 'bout that', but that's it, well, at least for me *g* So just take a step back, relax, chill and enjoy the day.
DAMN STRAIGHT. :D
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Just a small question, how have the new rules changed the users 'normal' life on this board? I really haven't realised a big change, most people still post as they did before and some issues like the 'pic disclaimer' have been resolved and the problem with 'two thread - same topic - one has to be closed - is also no more matter, thanks to the new board software. There are still some things were you could say 'Yeah, that's not perfect, maybe we should think 'bout that', but that's it, well, at least for me *g* So just take a step back, relax, chill and enjoy the day.
Have you noticed the bannings, warnings, and locked topics being on the rise? You can't say they don't correlate.
Hypno, did you just compare running a whore house out of your home to posting something Yoshiki said on the internet?
Anyways, I would like to see an example where a member of X Japan or their people sued someone for even posting something like that over the internet. And correct me if I'm wrong Hypno, but aren't you selling bootlegged X Japan items? And you're worried about someone posting a text message from Yoshiki? :D
Yes, I thought you guys wanted more "X attitude stuff" here.
I don't know if there has been any incidents, but I wouldn't like to be the first one :)
And technically, I'm sending them to my friends and only asking for the money for the blank DVD and postage fees, which isn't any worse than you burning some X songs/vids to your friends and asking them to pay for the blank DVD.
There's money exchanging hands though. I mean, even so you're encouraging pirating of their music and DVDs and I'm pretty sure whoever would get pissed about you doing it would care much more about that than someone posting Yoshiki's text messages.
I just don't understand how you can be worried about being held responsible for someone typing a text message from Yoshiki, but you aren't worried a bit about sending bootlegs off to people and hosting them on your web server?
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I just, personally, have the feeling that sometimes, reading Hollywood's posts (and not only his), his main goal is not to make things go better, but make the staff (and maybe some particular persons from the staff) look ridiculous. Maybe I wrong and I hope I am. It's just a feeling that I have.
I have suggested solutions, you have chosen to overlook them and create straw man arguments in which you attack various statements that I have never actually made. Right now I'm clearing up the facts as to what I've actually said and not said and attempting to dispose of your multitudes of straw men. If you feel that this is making you look ridiculous, well, don't construct straw men next time.
Honest, bullshit-free communication is step #1 to making things go better. I have never misled others nor attempted to do so. Right now I'm trying to keep others from being misled by you.
It wasn't directed at you, but now I understand that, as I was quoting you, you thought it was for you.
It was clear that you were addressing me in your post. When I replied to it, you replied with:
Btw, I was just makin' fun of your statement man, it's so ridiculous, in my opinion, to think that a forum about a band should be just like the "attitude" of the band. I can't believe you took that seriously
In other words, were your post actually for MiscastDice, surely you would have said so earlier. But either way, it doesn't particularly matter, since neither I NOR MiscastDice, nor anyone else, has ever suggested "no rules". As I have already told you twice before in recent memory. No matter who you claim you were talking about, you are still creating straw men. Communication with you is going to be basically impossible until you stop spreading falsehoods about what others are saying. It's not a matter of English ability either, as the meaning of your posts has always been very clear: you are claiming that people have said things they have never said, and then attacking them for it. If you would like to work towards a solution, please stop doing that. Please instead read and reply to what people are actually saying to you. Thanks in advance.
Just a small question, how have the new rules changed the users 'normal' life on this board?
As Uncontrol said, plus a lot of the older members and previous regulars are becoming less active. "Good riddance", I'm sure some may be thinking, but keep in mind that many of those whose activity is declining were major content-generators before the "PN and new rules" situation. Alienating people who generate a large portion of a site's content is very poor forum management. Those are the people you probably want to work to keep around, rather than trying to run them off.
There's money exchanging hands though. I mean, even so you're encouraging pirating of their music and DVDs and I'm pretty sure whoever would get pissed about you doing it would care much more about that than someone posting Yoshiki's text messages.
I just don't understand how you can be worried about being held responsible for someone typing a text message from Yoshiki, but you aren't worried a bit about sending bootlegs off to people and hosting them on your web server?
Well said. This is one of those things that I've frequently been absolutely dumbfounded over as well. As you said, money is exchanging hands-- the fact that the asking price is very low is irrelevant-- and I would like to point out as well that a lot of what Hypno is offering to pirate and sell is still commercially available. And this isn't even happening in the sharing forum. It's a sticky in general chat.
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Have you noticed the bannings, warnings, and locked topics being on the rise? You can't say they don't correlate.
But has any of these warnings been without a good reason? Has any of those actions been with a good reason, other than trying to bully the staff and/or try to go down as martyrs?
There's money exchanging hands though. I mean, even so you're encouraging pirating of their music and DVDs and I'm pretty sure whoever would get pissed about you doing it would care much more about that than someone posting Yoshiki's text messages.
First of all, I made that topic around the time I opened this forum. Which was waay before the sharing subforum. If I'm not mistaken, I haven't sent out any DVDs since the sharing subforum opened. And I'm seriously thinking if I should keep that topic there (actually, I usually forget about it until someone asks about it).
I have suggested solutions...
From what I remember of your suggestions, feel free to add some
-De-adminning PN- not going to happen unless she breaks the current rules or steps down herself. And that is final, there is no reason to talk about this one any more.
-Demolishing the current rules, bringing back the old ones- We are considering some changes in the rules. About your 'old rules worked fine', do you even remember the old rules? I deleted them, they have been thrown to the trashcan of history. If you want them back, you have to remind me of each of them (not that I'm actually putting them back, I just want to know if you know the old rules yourself) because all I remember from there are 'No spamming' and guidelines for your avatar size... Also something about not posting (unchecked) translations without notes that they may have mistakes. We have all those in the new rules also. Changes in the rules are always possible, if we see a need for them. Of course, first there should be a time period long enough to see if the rule under question works. Don't you agree?
Btw, I was just makin' fun of your statement man, it's so ridiculous, in my opinion, to think that a forum about a band should be just like the "attitude" of the band. I can't believe you took that seriously
In other words, were your post actually for MiscastDice, surely you would have said so earlier. But either way, it doesn't particularly matter, since neither I NOR MiscastDice, nor anyone else, has ever suggested "no rules".
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Lucs's sentence about your statement that if X swears, drinks, smokes, etc, then we should be allowed to act just as bad? I read the posts, but I guess it's just a misunderstanding?
As Uncontrol said, plus a lot of the older members and previous regulars are becoming less active. "Good riddance", I'm sure some may be thinking, but keep in mind that many of those whose activity is declining were major content-generators before the "PN and new rules" situation. Alienating people who generate a large portion of a site's content is very poor forum management. Those are the people you probably want to work to keep around, rather than trying to run them off.
And I know people who have been posting a lot less because of your 'crusade' and the atmosphere it's generating.
And Hollywood, about your 'I or anyone has never suggested to get rid of all the rules', your statement of 'no one wanted the new rules, the old ones were good enough' almost is asking of getting rid of all the rules, because as I said above, the old rules really weren't anything.
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And I know people who have been posting a lot less because of your 'crusade' and the atmosphere it's generating.
If there is a bad atmosphere because of the debate, I seriously doubt it is only Hollywood's fault. Putting all the blame on him is IMO very unfair. (Plus, I could probably name at least the same number of people who are posting a lot less/downright quit because of certain 'atmospheres' and 'crusades' led by completely different people.)
And Hollywood, about your 'I or anyone has never suggested to get rid of all the rules', your statement of 'no one wanted the new rules, the old ones were good enough' almost is asking of getting rid of all the rules, because as I said above, the old rules really weren't anything.
I really do not think so, Hypno. There is still a great difference between the rules we had and regular chaos that would be without any rules at all.
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-De-adminning PN- not going to happen unless she breaks the current rules or steps down herself. And that is final, there is no reason to talk about this one any more.
As I said to you, both in public and via PM: if, as you said, you are seriously willing to de-admin PN if her bad behavior resurfaces, that's fine with me. I've already agreed to this, don't attempt to imply that I haven't. I honestly don't know why you're now trying to re-open this topic with me, other than to join Lucs in the strawman fiesta.
-Demolishing the current rules, bringing back the old ones- We are considering some changes in the rules. About your 'old rules worked fine', do you even remember the old rules? I deleted them, they have been thrown to the trashcan of history. If you want them back, you have to remind me of each of them (not that I'm actually putting them back, I just want to know if you know the old rules yourself)
Credit to you-- you're really trying every possible way to permanently force the new rules down everyone's throat, aren't you? No, I didn't save a copy of the old rules. I (naively) didn't anticipate that the new rules would be so bizarre and oppressive as to necessitate that.
because all I remember from there are 'No spamming' and guidelines for your avatar size... Also something about not posting (unchecked) translations without notes that they may have mistakes.
The fact that these are the only rules you remember really says something: those are the only rules that are actually of any importance. Well, those and "don't insult or harass other users". And yes, there was already something to that effect in the old rules.
So, for normal users:
1. Don't insult or harass other users, and don't post other users' PMs without their permission.
2. No spamming.
3. When posting translations or rumors, please include a disclaimer to remind others that there may be mistakes or other inaccuracies.
4. Maximum avatar size is (whatever).
5. Don't share audio or video files outside of the sharing subforum.
Why are any rules necessary beyond that?
By the way, the admin/mod rules are actually fine, the only problem there is that they aren't consistently upheld or enforced and that the admins (note plural) bend them at will.
Of course, first there should be a time period long enough to see if the rule under question works. Don't you agree?
No. Why do you need to "test" a new rule to see if it "works"? Uncontrol said it best:
Also, the new rules aren't something that you need to try to figure out if you like, it's not a new brand of Doritos or anything. You can read the rules and decide if you like them from that, there isn't really anything to try. You either like them, or you don't.
Speaking of that:
And I know people who have been posting a lot less because of your 'crusade' and the atmosphere it's generating.
Here we go again with these attempts to assert that I'm the only one who has any problem with anything around here. In that case, may I direct you to the current state of the rules poll?
Poll
Question: What do you think about the current rules? (Voting closes: July 25, 2008, 12:11:27 AM)
The rules are good as they are! - 14 (40%)
Some minor changes, and they'd be great! - 7 (20%)
The rules need some drastic changes! - 14 (40%)
We don't need ANY rules! - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 34
60% of voters have a problem with at least SOME part of the current rules. I'm not alone, and have never been.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Lucs's sentence about your statement that if X swears, drinks, smokes, etc, then we should be allowed to act just as bad? I read the posts, but I guess it's just a misunderstanding?
Yes, that's what Lucs was talking about. My point in quoting that was to show that he was clearly addressing ME in the posts that he now claims were addressed to MiscastDice. But as I said, who he was addressing doesn't actually matter, since it was an obvious strawman argument either way.
And Hollywood, about your 'I or anyone has never suggested to get rid of all the rules', your statement of 'no one wanted the new rules, the old ones were good enough' almost is asking of getting rid of all the rules, because as I said above, the old rules really weren't anything.
Now you're contradicting yourself. First you supposedly can't remember the old rules, and now you remember them vividly enough to claim that they "weren't anything"? Don't forget, this forum's most active period-- the three-day reunion concerts and the lead-up to and cool-down from it-- occured under the old rules.
And everything went just fine.
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If there is a bad atmosphere because of the debate, I seriously doubt it is only Hollywood's fault.
I never said so. I think Hollywood is one of the most reasonable posters, in the... Other group (I seriously don't even know what to call you/them).
As I said to you, both in public and via PM: if, as you said, you are seriously willing to de-admin PN if her bad behavior resurfaces, that's fine with me. I've already agreed to this, don't attempt to imply that I haven't. I honestly don't know why you're now trying to re-open this topic with me, other than to join Lucs in the strawman fiesta.
Although I was directly answering you, this was meant for everyone. I know you have accepted that, and I greatly appreciate it. But there are some who haven't.
Credit to you-- you're really trying every possible way to permanently force the new rules down everyone's throat, aren't you? No, I didn't save a copy of the old rules. I (naively) didn't anticipate that the new rules would be so bizarre and oppressive as to necessitate that.
No, as I said before, rules might be changed (it's even added as a note under the rules). It's just that we shouldn't rush anything.
So, for normal users:
1. Don't insult or harass other users, and don't post other users' PMs without their permission.
2. No spamming.
3. When posting translations or rumors, please include a disclaimer to remind others that there may be mistakes or other inaccuracies.
4. Maximum avatar size is (whatever).
5. Don't share audio or video files outside of the sharing subforum.
Why are any rules necessary beyond that?
Actually, unless my memory is REALLY bad, there wasn't that first rule in the old rules (the harassing users part). And as soon as the poll is over, we'll start working on the rules again.
No. Why do you need to "test" a new rule to see if it "works"?
Some things might look good on paper (well, screen), but not work at all really.
Yes, that's what Lucs was talking about. My point in quoting that was to show that he was clearly addressing ME in the posts that he now claims were addressed to MiscastDice. But as I said, who he was addressing doesn't actually matter, since it was an obvious strawman argument either way.
In your answer to Lucs's comment about the attitude of the band & the fans stuff, you answered with that you never wanted "no rules". A bit different topics?
Now you're contradicting yourself. First you supposedly can't remember the old rules, and now you remember them vividly enough to claim that they "weren't anything"?
I can't remember the old rules exactly- word by word. But if you, for example, tell me a rule, I could probably say if it was in the old rules or not.
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If there is a bad atmosphere because of the debate, I seriously doubt it is only Hollywood's fault.
I never said so. I think Hollywood is one of the most reasonable posters, in the... Other group (I seriously don't even know what to call you/them).
I wish you and Lucs would stop trying to back out of your previous statements every time you're proven wrong. Here's what you said to me, on this very page:
And I know people who have been posting a lot less because of your 'crusade' and the atmosphere it's generating.
No, as I said before, rules might be changed (it's even added as a note under the rules). It's just that we shouldn't rush anything.
I don't get this. Why shouldn't we rush anything? What are you waiting for, even more people to get frustrated with the state of the forum and go inactive/leave?
So, for normal users:
1. Don't insult or harass other users, and don't post other users' PMs without their permission.
2. No spamming.
3. When posting translations or rumors, please include a disclaimer to remind others that there may be mistakes or other inaccuracies.
4. Maximum avatar size is (whatever).
5. Don't share audio or video files outside of the sharing subforum.
Why are any rules necessary beyond that?
Actually, unless my memory is REALLY bad, there wasn't that first rule in the old rules (the harassing users part). And as soon as the poll is over, we'll start working on the rules again.
I clearly remember a rule about respecting others/not insulting others/something like that, but whatever, if no one can (or no one chooses to) present a copy of the old rules, then it's pointless to discuss the specifics of what was or wasn't there.
That's why I attempted to move forward and suggest a solution. But I guess that's not allowed either?
In your answer to Lucs's comment about the attitude of the band & the fans stuff, you answered with that you never wanted "no rules". A bit different topics?
Right, I never wanted "no rules". And as I said, my point in re-quoting that part of Lucs' post was to show how he was addressing ME despite claiming he wasn't. But I guess I can understand why you're defending his "even though I quoted you I wasn't actually talking to/about you!" BS, given that you're now using some of the same techniques. Aside of the "crusade" one above, there's also this:
As I said to you, both in public and via PM: if, as you said, you are seriously willing to de-admin PN if her bad behavior resurfaces, that's fine with me. I've already agreed to this, don't attempt to imply that I haven't. I honestly don't know why you're now trying to re-open this topic with me, other than to join Lucs in the strawman fiesta.
Although I was directly answering you, this was meant for everyone. I know you have accepted that, and I greatly appreciate it. But there are some who haven't.
May I remind you that you said this, in a message which was very obviously directed towards me, especially considering that you quoted me in your reply:
I have suggested solutions...
From what I remember of your suggestions, feel free to add some
-De-adminning PN- not going to happen unless she breaks the current rules or steps down herself. And that is final, there is no reason to talk about this one any more.
Anyone with half a brain can figure out what you were attempting to imply there. It's a very weak, cowardly "technique", and a painfully obvious one: you quote me and say something misleading about me, and then when someone calls you on it, you claim it was either a general statement or it was actually about MiscastDice or whatever. Yeah, right. It's a lot easier for everyone involved if you simply avoid making misleading implications that you can't own up to.
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Hollywood, I think you are overanalyzing everything... And I seriously don't see a good future for this thread either... So, unless you have something certain to ask or say...
As for your suggestions, they will be welcome after the poll, that you suggested, ends.
About not rushing anything, that's the way things should be done. If you hastily do something, it tends to work badly, as it hasn't been thought through.
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Hollywood, I think you are overanalyzing everything... And I seriously don't see a good future for this thread either... So, unless you have something certain to ask or say...
As for your suggestions, they will be welcome after the poll, that you suggested, ends.
About not rushing anything, that's the way things should be done. If you hastily do something, it tends to work badly, as it hasn't been thought through.
in b4 lock
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JRR2, lololol.
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JRR2, lololol.
Shouldn't you give yourself the first warning now? O____________o ??? *confused*
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I just made it easier for whoever wanted to say it, I did it for them. They can thank me by sending me flowers (alternatively 3,99€) if they want to. :) I'm not sure I can warn myself, though, but I could try.
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Hollywood, I think you are overanalyzing everything...
Because you and Lucs weren't actually talking to me or about me when you were talking to me and about me? Or what?
And I seriously don't see a good future for this thread either... So, unless you have something certain to ask or say...
Which rule(s) is this thread violating? It's a random thread in the offtopic section.
And if it isn't violating any rules, why should it be locked?
As for your suggestions, they will be welcome after the poll, that you suggested, ends.
I suggested the poll, not the week of "shut up until the poll is over" that you've been attempting to impose when the discussion doesn't go your way. Why do you not want people to suggest anything to you?
This is getting (even more) ridiculous. First you claim I'm ruining the atmosphere of your forum and imply that I've never suggested any solutions to the forum's problems, and now when I make an additional suggestion, you tell me to shut up or you're locking the thread. What the fuck?
About not rushing anything, that's the way things should be done. If you hastily do something, it tends to work badly, as it hasn't been thought through.
You mean like the new rules themselves?
It took you under five days to write and implement them. Out of curiosity, how long was the staff given to comment on the final draft of the rules before they went live? I'm asking because I honestly forget and would like to know.
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Because you and Lucs weren't actually talking to me or about me when you were talking to me and about me? Or what?
Because you are seeing things where there is nothing.... But really, nevermind...
Which rule(s) is this thread violating? It's a random thread in the offtopic section.
And if it isn't violating any rules, why should it be locked?
None. It shouldn't. And it won't be. I just made a friendly suggestion. Who said it is going to be locked anyway? (Except for MiscastDice, but I have stopped taking him seriously... Btw he said he doesn't visit 4chan, but the text he sometimes writes does awfully remind me of that place)
I suggested the poll, not the week of "shut up until the poll is over" that you've been attempting to impose when the discussion doesn't go your way. Why do you not want people to suggest anything to you?
This is getting (even more) ridiculous. First you claim I'm ruining the atmosphere of your forum and imply that I've never suggested any solutions to the forum's problems, and now when I make an additional suggestion, you tell me to shut up or you're locking the thread. What the fuck?
Because the poll was made so we could see what people think. Though, I guess it's safe to say that you should start thinking about the suggestions. It's just that I try not to pile things up. I don't think it matters that much if we start getting suggestions a day before or earlier. And again, I never said I'm locking anything.
You mean like the new rules themselves?
It took you under five days to write and implement them. Out of curiosity, how long was the staff given to comment on the final draft of the rules before they went live? I'm asking because I honestly forget and would like to know.
I'm not sure when exactly did we start compiling them, asking for suggestions and everything, but the first big list appeared on the Mods subforum 11 days before the rules went live. And the really final list went up 2 days before. And I remind you that we didn't have all the mods we have now.
AND, as Hollywood said, this is a random thread in the offtopic section. No reason for me to warn Ferret or anything. The person who got a ban for saying so did it in a more serious subforum and after my direct order not to do so.
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About the poll, shouldn't we send every user a pm to vote or something? (mass pm/mail) That way maybe people who didn't follow all these threads/discussions could vote without being as biased as everyone here seems to be.
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'm not sure when exactly did we start compiling them, asking for suggestions and everything, but the first big list appeared on the Mods subforum 11 days before the rules went live. And the really final list went up 2 days before. And I remind you that we didn't have all the mods we have now.
So you gave the staff only 48 hours to discuss the final draft of the rules before they went into use. That says a lot right there.
AND, as Hollywood said, this is a random thread in the offtopic section. No reason for me to warn Ferret or anything. The person who got a ban for saying so did it in a more serious subforum and after my direct order not to do so.
And, as your rules said:
1. Respect the other users, the moderators and the administrators. Personal offences are not tolerated.
I thought it was rule #2 ("constructive posts") that is used with slightly more leniance in the offtopic section? I saw no such disclaimer on rule #1. So directly mocking other users is OK here now?
And yeah, I consider quoting the exact text that darkcat was banned for to be a clear provocation and a flaunting of one's "above the law" admin status. Let's put it this way: can you imagine how all hell would have broken loose if I (or, god forbid, MiscastDice) had posted the same thing?
About the poll, shouldn't we send every user a pm to vote or something? (mass pm/mail) That way maybe people who didn't follow all these threads/discussions could vote without being as biased as everyone here seems to be.
Strikes me as like a last-ditch effort to try to swing the poll your way, given that there are already 34 votes and probably not many more active users than that-- especially considering that the poll numbers haven't changed for a day or so and time is running out.
But sure, if you want. Good luck with that.
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Wow. Just wow.
If some people want all of the forum members to either be assholes or be supposed to take every insult thrown at them - good riddance. I really don't think this is the board for you.
Do you honestly think i.e. Taiji would sign up to this board just to insult everyone he comes along?
what does taiji has to do with anything ? should we make a forum for him ?
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Let's put it this way: can you imagine how all hell would have broken loose if I (or, god forbid, MiscastDice) had posted the same thing?
Given MD's history of "constcuctive" comments the JRR2 comment was very likely to come again, but hey I did it for him, I don't understand the outrage. I'm not here to kiss his ass, neither is he here to kiss mine, we should be able to coexist, but I don't see any wish for that from MD.
Strikes me as like a last-ditch effort to try to swing the poll your way, given that there are already 34 votes and probably not many more active users than that-- especially considering that the poll numbers haven't changed for a day or so and time is running out.
Your current paranoia reminds me of another user here (I don't think you'd like to be associated with her, though :P)
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what does taiji has to do with anything ? should we make a forum for him ?
Someone (don't remember if it was MD or Hollywod) insinuated that we should ban the X memebers if they signed up to this forum because one can't act like an asshat.
Apparently people believe stage personas are real.
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Strikes me as like a last-ditch effort to try to swing the poll your way, given that there are already 34 votes and probably not many more active users than that-- especially considering that the poll numbers haven't changed for a day or so and time is running out.
Honestly, Hollywood. Do you seriously have to take every thing ferret or Hypno says the wrong way? It's a poll about the forum, there can't be anything wrong with trying to get as much users as possible involved in it. I'm sure the users in question will be able to read the rules and form their own opinion.
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Someone (don't remember if it was MD or Hollywod) insinuated that we should ban the X memebers if they signed up to this forum because one can't act like an asshat.
Apparently people believe stage personas are real.
Stage personae are not real, but irony sure as hell is.
If you want, I'll rephrase this kind of thing in a more pedantic way to help you out: if somehow X members were to join and behave as their public personae-- which are the "versions" of them we are discussing here anyway since 1. we don't know what they're like in real life anyway and 2. it's not appropriate to talk about their personal lives on a public forum-- it is ironic and therefore humorous that such behavior would be considered inappropriate by people who are supposedly fans and are on a forum about the band.
It's just really, really funny when an X forum takes on the attitude and "values" of a Hannah Montana forum. It's like, I don't even know, a hip-hop forum with people saying "Good sirs, have you by chance partaken of the latest offerings from the Wu Tang quartet? Jolly good recordings, old chaps!"
It's a poll about the forum, there can't be anything wrong with trying to get as much users as possible involved in it. I'm sure the users in question will be able to read the rules and form their own opinion.
As I said, if they want to do that, go ahead. I'm not saying not to. I just find it amusing that "shouldn't we mass-mail everyone?" is being asked NOW when the poll's probable outcome has become pretty clear, rather than when the poll was first created. If everyone had been mass-mailed at the very beginning I wouldn't have found it strange at all.
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Someone (don't remember if it was MD or Hollywod) insinuated that we should ban the X memebers if they signed up to this forum because one can't act like an asshat.
Apparently people believe stage personas are real.
Stage personae are not real, but irony sure as hell is.
If you want, I'll rephrase this kind of thing in a more pedantic way to help you out: if somehow X members were to join and behave as their public personae-- which are the "versions" of them we are discussing here anyway since 1. we don't know what they're like in real life anyway and 2. it's not appropriate to talk about their personal lives on a public forum-- it is ironic and therefore humorous that such behavior would be considered inappropriate by people who are supposedly fans and are on a forum about the band.
It's just really, really funny when an X forum takes on the attitude and "values" of a Hannah Montana forum. It's like, I don't even know, a hip-hop forum with people saying "Good sirs, have you by chance partaken of the latest offerings from the Wu Tang quartet? Jolly good recordings, old chaps!"
Quoted for truth.
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if somehow X members were to join and behave as their public personae-- which are the "versions" of them we are discussing here anyway since 1. we don't know what they're like in real life anyway and 2. it's not appropriate to talk about their personal lives on a public forum-- it is ironic and therefore humorous that such behavior would be considered inappropriate by people who are supposedly fans and are on a forum about the band.
I sure as hell would consider it inappropriate. Of course it's cool with bands who act rebellious and go against the flow. They're heroes some look up to, they're a source of inspiration to others. I love X and I love the badass image they had in the early 90's - that doesn't mean I want it to be a part of my daily life.
That also doesn't mean all the members on this forum would appreciate if anyone, even a celebrity, would walk up to them and smash a bottle in their face, insult them harshly or whatever.
Treat people with about the same amount of kindness you want to be treated with yourself.
Act continuously like an idiot towards fellow fans and you'll eventually get banned. I think that's completely fair. Just because a celebrity acts like an idiot (and I've never heard of X being mean towards other people) doesn't make it any more ok.
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If you could hear me through the net, you'd hear me allplaud, Millie ;)
Also, there is a big difference between their public/stage persona in the eithties and now. You've got to be kidding youself if you still see them as the rock monsters they "used to be". They're not. They went through a big change in the nineties, their music became more mainstream if I may say so. Sure, they still play some of the harder songs eventually but mostly it's ballads and slower songs. AND, I'm sure most of us have been reading Yoshiki's blog entries and I've never seen him write anything that would qualify as "rock n' roll", some fucks/fuck yeahs here and there but that's pretty much as "hard" and "wild" as it gets.
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Also, there is a big difference between their public/stage persona in the eithties and now. You've got to be kidding youself if you still see them as the rock monsters they "used to be". They're not. They went through a big change in the nineties, their music became more mainstream if I may say so.
As I have said myself in about 500 posts on this forum. And last time I checked, this forum is about X as they are AND as they were, given the existence of threads and subforums for their old concerts, old members, old songs, etc. I have no idea where you're going with this, unless you're trying to say that everyone should behave like nuns because X plays too many ballads now? (I'm wrong about this, right? I hope?)
Your and (especially) Millie's latest posts are just really, really ironic and funny to me, because it's like this:
Welcome to our X forum! We all love X! We think they're the greatest band ever!
And if you're anything at all like the band we love, we'll ban your sorry ass! :D
Honestly, WTF? Most forums-- hell, most people-- understand that like attracts like: people with a particular attitude, personality, philosophy, or lifestyle will tend to be attracted to things (including bands and musicians) that they feel something in common with. Not always of course, since opposites sometimes do attract, but one would have to be incredibly naive to not understand such a basic aspect of human nature.
If you open a Grateful Dead forum, you will attract at least a few hippies.
If you open a gangsta rap forum, you will attract at least a few gangbangers.
If you open an X forum, you will attract at least a few rockers/rebels/badasses/whatever.
Why is this surprising or upsetting to anyone?
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I have no idea where you're going with this, unless you're trying to say that everyone should behave like nuns because X plays too many ballads now? (I'm wrong about this, right? I hope?)
Ok, I'll give you that, you're drawing some hilarious conclusions here. ;D I'm saying that if for example Yoshiki WERE a poster here, I highly doubt (given his current public persona) he'd post about fucking the hot chicks here till his cock fell off and telling everyone to go eat their dogs' shit in case somebody disagrees with him. I hope that was graphic enough?
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I have no idea where you're going with this, unless you're trying to say that everyone should behave like nuns because X plays too many ballads now? (I'm wrong about this, right? I hope?)
Ok, I'll give you that, you're drawing some hilarious conclusions here. ;D I'm saying that if for example Yoshiki WERE a poster here, I highly doubt (given his current public persona) he'd post about fucking the hot chicks here till his cock fell off and telling everyone to go eat their dogs' shit in case somebody disagrees with him. I hope that was graphic enough?
But if he did, what would be so wrong with it? Most of us would laugh it off as "fuck, Yoshiki, hope you're not driving anywhere tonight" and move on with our lives. Unless he was personally stalking people or some such, it would just be one more case of an over-the-top forum poster.
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No need to speculate and discuss about that since that won't NEVER ever happen.
Aside from that I don't get that thread anymore - you're making associations with things which where never meant and said in that sense and see stuff which doesn't exist. You guys fuckin' drive me nuts with that dead end argumentation! >___<
Honestly this thread here isn't discussing an existing problem but is a discussion only for discussing each other to death - i mean GET A LIFE, MAN!
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Really, Hollywood. All I'm saying is that anyone here is free to be a rocker/rebel and whatever. Use whatever language you feel is necessary and talk about things that you think are cool. Just don't offend or be a dick towards other people. Everyone on this board are real live people with real feelings.
Everyone has understood and respected that you have your feelings against the rules - now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN) or want to read about MD's fantasies?
And don't tell me this is impossible, because it is possible.
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terrorized
Is that so? I have not noticed.
And I think that having made your point, you guys could cool down too and not attack like a hive of bees.
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And I think that having made your point, you guys could cool down too and not attack like a hive of bees.
I'm going to pretend this was pointed towards Hollywood & co cause I don't see any attacking from the staff side.
Also, Hollywood & MD: now that there is a perfect board with the perfect rules - what are you still complaining here for?
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I am not surprised you don't. Pretend all you like, though.
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Millie, I believe you're forgetting that PanthereNoire is 46 year old woman.
I would understand your point if PN were 12 or so and got her feelings hurt from the "harassment", but uhh..she's 46. She should be able to take care of herself.
As far as my personal opinion of PN goes, she has brought it on herself. I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that. If Panthere is brought up, it's "Hey, I saw Panther do _______ and I think it's bullshit." I don't see anything wrong with that. She's old enough to be responsible for her actions, if she has a problem with that, then tough shit, I say. Things for Panthere would go a lot more smoothly if she actually gave us her opinion on things instead of having the moderation staff talk for her.
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now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN)
WHAT THE FUCK? PANTHERE NOIRE was "terrorizing and insulting" people (note her PM to Hollywood, note her arbitrary editing of anti-JRR posts, note her chasing the Yoshiki/hide writer out of the fantext forum, note her calling legitimate news stories rumors, among other things. Sorry, but any insults she acquired were in the course of her "work" of promoting JRR, pissing off the hide fans, and trying to clean up X. You know the saying about throwing rocks at beehives? Who's "terrorizing" who, the bees who are trying to defend themselves from a pointless, sudden attack or the person who goes "hey, I'm gonna smash this with a rock?"
But that's a new one. Hey, Hollywood, we're forum terrists now! OMG SOMEONE CALL GEORGE BUSH AND WARN HIM OF THE INTERNETS TERRISTS. FUCKING LAWL.
And just as a side note, "I want to fuck Yoshiki" is a statement, not a fantasy. . .
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Wait, wait...
Bees?
In MY trees?
*gathers rocks...* We'll just see who's buzzing around now. I won't let them win. I will throw rocks until those bees realize I've won.
OW OW OW OW OW OW OW
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Ok ok, you got me there, I'm really aggressive here, that is because CERTAIN PEOPLE try their best to twist every word a member of the staff writes around twice and make their own interpretations here which turn into stupid accusations.
I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean she wasn't. This is a big board and people can send PMs here. And from what I recall she's been called names "in the good ol days" as well. And yes, she made a bunch of mistakes as an admin but uh, when was the last time she terrorized you, MD?
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pissing off the hide fans,
How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.
And just as a side note, "I want to fuck Yoshiki" is a statement, not a fantasy. . .
So? Still noone want's to read it *g*
And just my two cents, where is this thread going to, or what's the intention of the people to post over and over again the same things. Not taking any sides, the posts (no matter by whom) are very repetative and I really have lost what this is all about. There is a thread where Users can vote what the think about the new rules, and after that I'm sure there will be discussions about what should be changed etc... I just don't get the big drama here, really. It's just an internetforum guys, chill.
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Ok ok, you got me there, I'm really aggressive here, that is because CERTAIN PEOPLE try their best to twist every word a member of the staff writes around twice and make their own interpretations here which turn into stupid accusations.
I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean she wasn't. This is a big board and people can send PMs here. And from what I recall she's been called names "in the good ol days" as well. And yes, she made a bunch of mistakes as an admin but uh, when was the last time she terrorized you, MD?
She didn't specifically terrorize me, but she DID attempt to terrorize someone I consider a friend on this board (what with her PM to Hollywood demanding he edit his post or else) and she terrorized all hide/Yoshiki writers by throwing that shitfit in the fantext forum.
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pissing off the hide fans,
How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.
What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki
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pissing off the hide fans,
How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.
What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki
So? If she thinks that, that's her business I didn't say I think everything she said was right, but it just didn't piss me off.
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Oh God and now we're at the PN argument again...
*bangs head against the wall*
Seriously, I'm in full agreement with Matthias and Maverick on this one. This thread lost it's point a long time ago. I know the staff can't close it since you'll just be all 'omg we're being censored' and start a new one, but seriously.
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Millie, I believe you're forgetting that PanthereNoire is 46 year old woman.
I would understand your point if PN were 12 or so and got her feelings hurt from the "harassment", but uhh..she's 46. She should be able to take care of herself.
Age doesn't have shit to do with anything. Harrassing a person, young or old, is an offense. And yes, some people might be able to "take care of themselves", but NOONE wants to hear such.
And I was just taking her as an example. MD's overall attitude towards the rules seems to me like he just wants to be able to insult anyone he wants.
now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN)
WHAT THE FUCK? PANTHERE NOIRE was "terrorizing and insulting" people (note her PM to Hollywood, note her arbitrary editing of anti-JRR posts, note her chasing the Yoshiki/hide writer out of the fantext forum, note her calling legitimate news stories rumors, among other things. Sorry, but any insults she acquired were in the course of her "work" of promoting JRR, pissing off the hide fans, and trying to clean up X. You know the saying about throwing rocks at beehives? Who's "terrorizing" who, the bees who are trying to defend themselves from a pointless, sudden attack or the person who goes "hey, I'm gonna smash this with a rock?"
Yes, of course PN did some bad stuff. I think so too. (But she's stopped it for now.)
However, and I don't know how often I'll have to repeat this - one person's actions does not justify another's.
Just because she starts to pick a fight doesn't mean others have to continue it. That makes both people involved equally in the wrong.
And it feels like I've written this post before already. About 5 times. So drop it.
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pissing off the hide fans,
How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.
What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki
So? If she thinks that, that's her business I didn't say I think everything she said was right, but it just didn't piss me off.
It's one thing, if it's her opinion and it ends with that, but she went on about how we all need to "face the facts" and how hide was more than a "pretty man with pink hair in a magazine".
And when she was asked to prove her wild accusations, she provided this:
(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9153/yoshiki026qo6.jpg)
Look at Toshi's evil scowl at hide :o
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OH MY GOD THERE ARE SO MANY BEES
I GUESS I BETTER KEEP THROWING ROCKS
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MD's overall attitude towards the rules seems to me like he just wants to be able to insult anyone he wants.
D'aww, that's the fucking cutest strawman I've seen in a while! Did you build it yourself or use the plans from the internet forum strawman clearinghouse? There's so many strawmen in this thread that it should be classified as a fire hazard.
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About the poll, shouldn't we send every user a pm to vote or something? (mass pm/mail) That way maybe people who didn't follow all these threads/discussions could vote without being as biased as everyone here seems to be.
Great idea, did that now.
So you gave the staff only 48 hours to discuss the final draft of the rules before they went into use. That says a lot right there.
Yup, because you were getting restless with lack of action from our side. And I had heard opinions on the rules during the previous 8 days, so...
And yeah, I consider quoting the exact text that darkcat was banned for to be a clear provocation and a flaunting of one's "above the law" admin status. Let's put it this way: can you imagine how all hell would have broken loose if I (or, god forbid, MiscastDice) had posted the same thing?
Umm if you have followed this topic carefully, MD has already made at least one troll-comment... Did I say something about it? (Well, I did... But I didn't do anything)
Strikes me as like a last-ditch effort to try to swing the poll your way, given that there are already 34 votes and probably not many more active users than that-- especially considering that the poll numbers haven't changed for a day or so and time is running out.
Maybe it will swing the poll your way? And 34 users? Last time I counted ~100+ users logged in during the last 3 days.
I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that.
Darkcat called her 'puta' once (insulting people in languages they don't speak is even worse imo). And I can perfectly see why she doesn't want to post here.
now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN)
WHAT THE FUCK? PANTHERE NOIRE was "terrorizing and insulting" people (note her PM to Hollywood, note her arbitrary editing of anti-JRR posts, note her chasing the Yoshiki/hide writer out of the fantext forum, note her calling legitimate news stories rumors, among other things.
[--]
And just as a side note, "I want to fuck Yoshiki" is a statement, not a fantasy. . .
a) Her PM to Hollywood, I wouldn't call terrorizing (unless Hollywood was really scared, which I doubt)- and she didn't edit his post about it!
b) Anti JRR posts where they weren't needed anyway. If you want to make an anti JRR topic, go ahead, make one, I allow it. But only if the accusations you make there are based on concrete facts. But oh wait, you have your own forum now! Do that there, no one will stop you there.
c) That was her opinion on fanfics, unless I'm wrong, she didn't chase you (or anyone else) out from anywhere.
d) Those 'legitimate news stories' have been wrong before.
e) Statements aren't good thread starters (specially when they are written drunk). A good thread starter is a question, a bit of new information, or a statement with the word 'discuss'.
What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki
That was her theory. A well written one I might say. If she writes about something, she does it well, not like a certain someone, who just mentions his theories here or there without any base.
D'aww, that's the fucking cutest strawman I've seen in a while! Did you build it yourself or use the plans from the internet forum strawman clearinghouse? There's so many strawmen in this thread that it should be classified as a fire hazard.
And I thought she was dead-on right... Guess that's what happens when you don't get all this strawman thing, huh...
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She..writes her theories well?
Did you see her "proof"? If so, you must be joking Hypno.
That picture is hard evidence? Come on, man. Say it isn't so.
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I meant that her text is well written and she gives reasons why she thinks so...
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Darkcat called her 'puta' once (insulting people in languages they don't speak is even worse imo). And I can perfectly see why she doesn't want to post here.
OMG SOMEONE GOT INSULTED ONCE SO WE MUST CREATE A NEW SET OF RESTRICTIVE RULES!!!! Never mind we already HAD a rule against interpersonal harassment. Never mind that the low-stress, low-drama way to handle this (since it originated from an argument between the users) wouldn't be throwing out the rules and making new rules, but would be a neutral moderator either admonishing both under the then- existing rules or, even better, trying to mediate their dispute.
There will likely always be squabbles on an active community. Punishing everyone or restricting everyone for the actions of two combatants is like instituting a "no visual keis on the premises, no swearing, no this, no that" policy in a bar because one or two peeps tend to be fight magnets or fight with each other.
Generally the best way to deal with interpersonal squabbles is to try to get the peeps involved to tolerate each other, or failing that, keep them away from each other. That an entire new set of rules would be needed for one argument between two users is laughable.
a) Her PM to Hollywood, I wouldn't call terrorizing (unless Hollywood was really scared, which I doubt)- and she didn't edit his post about it!
Whether the person is scared or not does NOT make the intent of threats any less than to terrify. As an example, let's say I open my e-mail inbox to see 30 messages saying that my wages will be garnished and my place of residence burned to the ground unless I shut up NOW. Unfortunately, someone hasn't disguised the header and a few clicks show the threat poster to be 3,000 miles away/the neighborhood crank/a 13 year old boy. Does knowing the source of the messages make them less threatening? Yes, especially if the sender is far away, can't make good on the threats, or is someone I could easily win a fight against. That, however, doesn't make the sender's intent any less threatening.
Oh and you called me stupid again. "U r a stupid-head!!!" is NOT the way to win arguments and influence people. Except maybe toward thinking you're arguing at a kindergarten level.
Insulting content removed as it's harsh violation of rule #1.
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I'm not even going to bother anymore though.
FINALLY.
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I'm not even going to bother anymore though.
FINALLY.
Why should I? I'd have a more productive conversation getting drunk and stoned off my ass and arguing with a telephone pole!
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Why should I? I'd have a more productive conversation getting drunk and stoned off my ass and arguing with a telephone pole!
I hope you'll be able to stick to your word :)
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/NSDeReVkO/1zb77gx.gif)
there is a god *brb, getting religious*
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I thought one's bad behaviour does not justify other's.
But whatever, I guess I have been mistaken here too many times before...
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By the way, who didn't see the Banned Persons list, MiscastDice is banned. I'm sure some of you would like to express your feelings here, but mind that if they might insult other users, please try to refrain yourself.
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Sorry for the doublepost, but thanks to some old backups I was able to dig out the old rules (these are REALLY old, later a few others were added):
* NO Spamming (doubleposting is NOT allowed)
* NO 1337- talk.
* Topics Subject has to contain the reason of the post (instead of "i got a problem :( :( " please write "I cant get my avatar working :( ")
* Please dont spam smileys, one or two is enough
* The language of this forum is ENGLISH. Posts in other languages will probably be deleted.
* Please try to watch your language, no need to offend other forum users.
* Before flaming new users (aka newbies) think of yourself when you started.
* Before making a new topic use search or see if there is a similar topic already.
* Avatar''s max size is 130x130 pixels.
* Signature has no max size but when a moderator thinks it''s too big he/she will delete it!
So nothing about insulting
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* Please try to watch your language, no need to offend other forum users.
* Before flaming new users (aka newbies) think of yourself when you started.
If this is not about insulting, then I do not know what is it about.
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* Please try to watch your language, no need to offend other forum users.
* Before flaming new users (aka newbies) think of yourself when you started.
If this is not about insulting, then I do not know what is it about.
First one is a profanity rule, that you shouldn't swear as it might offend other users (not insult).
The second one only forbids flaming new users for acting like... new users...
Of course they could be interpreted differently, but that's what they are, strictly taken.
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Well, to me, saying either "You are just a noob who understands nothing about X-Japan and would do better at 4chan!" or "What a pretentious fuckwit you are!" (note the strong language) are both insults.
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* Please try to watch your language, no need to offend other forum users.
* Before flaming new users (aka newbies) think of yourself when you started.
If this is not about insulting, then I do not know what is it about.
That's exactly what they're about. But obviously they were not specific enough, as you can see in posts like this one
FUCK YOU. You're the fucking sockpuppet of someone on here too cowardly to post under their real name. Your join date and your posts make you look like that, or like you just got on here to wank.
Sorry, but you really need to fuck off. This is X-Freaks, not "The 'Natural Born Onanist' Forum."
This was made before the new rules were made. If one wants to ignore the rules they will ignore the rules, no matter what the rules say.
You are just a noob who understands nothing about X-Japan
Who said that?
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Well, to me, saying either "You are just a noob who understands nothing about X-Japan and would do better at 4chan!" or "What a pretentious fuckwit you are!" (note the strong language) are both insults.
True, but if I didn't use profanity or words like 'noob', I wouldn't be (have been) breaking the rules.
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Noone said that. That was just a hypothetical example.
Personally, I guess I have said it before - I don't mind the rule, as I myself felt insulted here quite a few times in the past (back then not many people seemed to mind, though, I guess it kind of depended on who was the insulter and who the victim) and therefore I don't think it's completely useless. I only did not agree with the comment that there was "nothing about insulting", which I think is not so.
EDIT: I think that - coming in a certain way from certain people - it's an insult even without the "noob".
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I guess it kind of depended on who was the insulter and who the victim
Exactly. And if you don't use a vulgarism explicitly, it's sometimes difficult to decide what is an insult and what is not. You can hurt a person while speaking politely and the others may not notice it.
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Well I think I have said in many places- if you feel insulted, contact a mod or admin.
Also, we seem to have a 'Report post to moderator' button, which we could use...
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Indeed. But I was talking about past. And we had no such buttons in past. And as I have said before, it too much depended on who insulted whom, so there were people who felt mods/admin would not really bother much to stand up for them. That's how it was - and to some extent even is, I think.
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d) Those 'legitimate news stories' have been wrong before.
I take this one back, I don't remember any cases.
But the rule remains- if it's not official, it's a rumor.
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And technically, I'm sending them to my friends and only asking for the money for the blank DVD and postage fees, which isn't any worse than you burning some X songs/vids to your friends and asking them to pay for the blank DVD.
MD, one of my jobs as an administrator here is to read through all the posts and be in touch with what's going on here. Your example about roommates is good, but here I know when I see someone posting a YM message.
I really dont know how to explain this. I've seen this on another forum (wrestling forum a few years ago) and the admin didnt allow wrestling themes and such to be posted because it was illegal.. but when he read the forum terms and conditions, he could not be held responsible even if he allowed the stuff to be put on.. so he allowed it..and WWE (WWF at the time) contacted him and threatened him with legal action but when he spoke to someone in law (think it was a friend/relative of his), they said its impossible for WWE to sue him or prosecute him because of the reasons I stated earlier. I'm not just guessing that it'll be okay.. you cant be prosecuted or held responsible. And even if you could, i'm pretty sure Yoshiki's people dont care if someone posts a message here saying "Yoshiki is eating muffins today in Tokyo" or anything else posted on YM.
Even if its stuff that is not available in retail stores, what you are doing, even if you were sending bootlegs and stuff to friends completely free of charge, is still extremely illegal and that CAN get you prosecuted. THAT is illegal. The YM thing is not.
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Wow, so much fun stuff to reply to, where shall I start?
Everyone has understood and respected that you have your feelings against the rules - now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN) or want to read about MD's fantasies?
So now I've "terrorized and insulted" PN? Ha, good one! So now pointing out when User A harasses and insults User B counts as harassment of User A?
Examples of me "terrorizing" PN, por favor?
a) Her PM to Hollywood, I wouldn't call terrorizing (unless Hollywood was really scared, which I doubt)- and she didn't edit his post about it!
Oh, stop trying to weasel out of everything, will you? Telling someone to edit a post which did not violate any rules, along with an implied legal threat, is harassment. It's a bullying attempt. The fact that it was funny and didn't work doesn't make it any less of an attempt.
That was her theory. A well written one I might say. If she writes about something, she does it well, not like a certain someone, who just mentions his theories here or there without any base.
She's welcome to her theories-- which were baseless by the way; "because I say so" is not proof-- but I would hope she is not welcome to insult and harass everyone who disagrees with her. That very thread with her "well written" theory being a case in point. Anyone who dared say they so much as disagreed got an ad hominem smackdown. That's appropriate behavior? What about "before flaming new users (aka newbies) think of yourself when you started"?
And yeah, I consider quoting the exact text that darkcat was banned for to be a clear provocation and a flaunting of one's "above the law" admin status. Let's put it this way: can you imagine how all hell would have broken loose if I (or, god forbid, MiscastDice) had posted the same thing?
Umm if you have followed this topic carefully, MD has already made at least one troll-comment... Did I say something about it? (Well, I did... But I didn't do anything)
And now MD is banned, and ferret is allowed to go on making snide personal attacks at him. I'm not saying MD's ban was not earned, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. But the double-standard is painfully obvious. I thought the rules apply to staff as well?
Yup, because you were getting restless with lack of action from our side. And I had heard opinions on the rules during the previous 8 days, so...
Given that everyone-- staff included-- has publicly mocked the photo disclaimer rule from the moment it was implemented, I HIGHLY doubt that many opinions were heard (or acknowledged) about that rule, for one. It all adds up to looking like you and PN rammed the final version of the rules through with little to no interest in staff feedback. I hope you can prove me wrong.
And hey, great! Now there's yet a fifth conflicting story for why the new rules were created at all!
1. They're there because of PN's behavior.
2. They have nothing to do with PN, they're there because Hypno always meant to make new rules anyway and the timing is just an incredible coincidence.
3. They're there because PN told Hypno he could get sued if he doesn't make new rules.
4. They're there to keep normal users from turning into trolls, nevermind that this had never happened before and the "trolling" users are only "trolling" out of anger at the new rules.
5. (NEW!) They're there because, months ago, darkcat called PN a puta, nevermind that there were already rules in place to handle that and the majority of the new rules have nothing to do with putas whatsoever.
Fantastic.
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In reply to those who are angry about the insulting issue...
Wow, I'm sorry, I really am, but it's THE INTERNET.
Who cares if you're insulted?
Just get over it like everyone else.
I did. (that's another story about LJ)
God.
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In reply to those who are angry about the insulting issue...
Wow, I'm sorry, I really am, but it's THE INTERNET.
Who cares if you're insulted?
Just get over it like everyone else.
I did. (that's another story about LJ)
God.
I'm sorry too, it's not my business but if you write something like this, I assume you are not over it. And that's why insults shouldn't be tolerated. Even on the internet, it doesn't change the fact that people have their feelings.
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I was thinking the same SarahAlex, doesn't matter if it's online or face to face, insults can and do hurt people's feelings. Insults shouldn't be tolerated, be it from a member or a mod/admin.
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After you register and login to this forum, you will be able to fill out a detailed profile. It is your responsibility to present clean and accurate information. Any information the forum owner or staff determines to be inaccurate or vulgar in nature will be removed, with or without prior notice. Appropriate sanctions may be applicable.
Please note that with each post, your IP address is recorded, in the event that you need to be banned from this forum or your ISP contacted. This will only happen in the event of a major violation of this agreement.
Haha.
Please tell me how this doesn't sound EXTREMELY Big Brother-like. Any informationship the staff determines to be inaccurate is going to be removed? What a joke.
We all know who brought this shit on too. ::) Be a man, Hypno. This is getting ridiculous.
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That is just silly. I would hate to be the person who lives in the town of Dildo then. How does one know it's inaccurate information anyways?
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And now MD is banned, and ferret is allowed to go on making snide personal attacks at him. I'm not saying MD's ban was not earned, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. But the double-standard is painfully obvious. I thought the rules apply to staff as well?
What happened to your rock n' roll forum dream now? "Fuck the rules", right? Or did you mean "fuck the rules unless you're part of the staff, then shut the hell up and let the poeple do as they please"?
I wouldn't mind a warning to be honest, or even de-adminning, especially the second, then I wouldn't have to put up with "users" like MD anymore.
I would hate to be the person who lives in the town of Dildo then.
Err, this person still has the choice NOT to fill out the details, as does every user here.
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And now MD is banned, and ferret is allowed to go on making snide personal attacks at him. I'm not saying MD's ban was not earned, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. But the double-standard is painfully obvious. I thought the rules apply to staff as well?
What happened to your rock n' roll forum dream now? "Fuck the rules", right? Or did you mean "fuck the rules unless you're part of the staff, then shut the hell up and let the poeple do as they please"?
I wouldn't mind a warning to be honest, or even de-adminning, especially the second, then I wouldn't have to put up with "users" like MD anymore.
Quit using that "I thought this is what you wanted!" argument. Until this is a rock n' roll dream forum, I'd expect the moderation staff to act twice as well than the rest of the members on the board. I mean, if you don't give a shit about following the rules and "GIVE ME A WARNING I JUST DONT CARE" bit you have going, how can you ban people who have the same attitude?
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I did not ban him.
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I was referring to the staff as whole.
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But it's just me who is having the ""GIVE ME A WARNING I JUST DONT CARE" bit " going on. The whole staff is not responsible for my actions, everyone is responsible for their own. If I screw up, it doesn't mean the other admins and mods do, too. Even if I write like this, I represent MY opinion as a staff member, not the staff. I'm fed up with the staff being seen as a big machine without own thoughts, just doing what the "master" types in, I'm fed up with Lucs getting shit for being "on our side" (wtf guys, seriously) and mostly I'm fed up with these threads popping up. I don't even know anymore what they're about, the rules, no rules, PN, the staff, me, you, everyone and everything, salad with yogurt dressing.
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As much as I understand Your chargin, ferret, I cannot agree with everything - especially not
Lucs getting shit for being "on our side" (wtf guys, seriously)
. I think it is his opinions what makes some users uncomfortable, not his being at somebody's side...
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Oh? I remember a stupid macro being posted when he became a mod (I guess that was for all mods) and stuff said like "sucking PN's/Hypno's cock/kissing their asses". And he's been attacked and made fun of here (and not just here) for having an opinion that is not "fuck the rules", even though he voiced his opinion moderately.
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Well, I think that many people have been made fun of and attacked for their opinions here, not just Lucs.
And the macro was indeed out of place.
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I'm not saying he was the only one but him being mocked because he became a mod? Come on. Being a mod =/= voicing an opinion. That made it look like becoming a member of the staff is like betraying your homeland or something.
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I am sure many people who posted here do not feel it this way.
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lol you guys have way too much free time
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Oh, stop trying to weasel out of everything, will you? Telling someone to edit a post which did not violate any rules, along with an implied legal threat, is harassment. It's a bullying attempt. The fact that it was funny and didn't work doesn't make it any less of an attempt.
I can tell you to jump off a cliff, even though there aren't any rules that say you should. I can even write a formal letter that asks you to. Would you call it bullying or terrorizing?
And now MD is banned, and ferret is allowed to go on making snide personal attacks at him. I'm not saying MD's ban was not earned, breaking the rules is breaking the rules. But the double-standard is painfully obvious. I thought the rules apply to staff as well?
You see anything wrong with a post-> Click the "Report post to moderator button". That simple.
Given that everyone-- staff included-- has publicly mocked the photo disclaimer rule from the moment it was implemented, I HIGHLY doubt that many opinions were heard (or acknowledged) about that rule, for one. It all adds up to looking like you and PN rammed the final version of the rules through with little to no interest in staff feedback. I hope you can prove me wrong.
Oh I rammed the final version of the rules, but not with PN. In fact, I rammed it as a lighter version of what PN wanted, with little interest of what she wanted. Want me to prove something? Do it yourself. Apply for a mod position and get it, then read all you want in the mods subforum. I, my dear sir, don't have to prove you anything.
5. (NEW!) They're there because, months ago, darkcat called PN a puta, nevermind that there were already rules in place to handle that and the majority of the new rules have nothing to do with putas whatsoever.
Don't make up things, I never said that I made the new rules because dc called PN a puta.
Please tell me how this doesn't sound EXTREMELY Big Brother-like. Any informationship the staff determines to be inaccurate is going to be removed? What a joke.
Hmmm where did you get that text? I bet it's the default License of Agreement of the forum? Well, we didn't write it (we should indeed change it though). And the forum is run by the rules we made.
And I happen to agree with ferret. What's the point of this topic anyway? To whine? To find faults in what we do? To prove us wrong as much as you can? What will happen? What should happen? What do you want to happen?
I'm seriously considering just ignoring this thread (though my nature probably insists me to keep on responding = hitting my head against a brick wall).
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I won't post further in this thread or any of the likes that might be created in the future.
If you feel like misinterpreting stuff I say and questioning me about it like Hollywood did in his latest post, please PM me.
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What happened to your rock n' roll forum dream now? "Fuck the rules", right? Or did you mean "fuck the rules unless you're part of the staff, then shut the hell up and let the poeple do as they please"?
I never said "fuck the rules". If you'd like to claim that I did, find it and quote me.
It's unfortunate that you've chosen to ignore the fact that, throughout this thread and others, I have advocated FOR a rule against insulting others. For example, I had suggested this as a set of rules I would like to see:
1. Don't insult or harass other users, and don't post other users' PMs without their permission.
2. No spamming.
3. When posting translations or rumors, please include a disclaimer to remind others that there may be mistakes or other inaccuracies.
4. Maximum avatar size is (whatever).
5. Don't share audio or video files outside of the sharing subforum.
Ad hominem insults are not appropriate for MD to make, and they're not appropriate for you to make either. They're also against the current forum rules. You're the one violating forum rules here, not me.
As for the "rock'n'roll" thing, I was referring (which I thought was clear) to the overall atmosphere and attitude of the forum, the administrative style used around here, and the abundance of unnecessary rules.
I'm fed up with Lucs getting shit for being "on our side" (wtf guys, seriously)
I couldn't care less whose "side" Lucs is on or whether or not he's a mod. I didn't post the macro, I thought it was stupid.
However, I disagree with much of what he's said on this thread, and I'm not exactly delighted with how he has made a hobby of telling me I said things I never said and then attacking me for them (strawman arguments). All I've done to him is clear up the false and misleading statements he's made about me. If, as I said before, he feels that that makes him look ridiculous, maybe he should consider that next time before spreading bullshit about others.
I can tell you to jump off a cliff, even though there aren't any rules that say you should. I can even write a formal letter that asks you to. Would you call it bullying or terrorizing?
Uh, if you wrote a formal letter asking me to kill myself? Fuck yes I'd consider that bullying.
You see anything wrong with a post-> Click the "Report post to moderator button". That simple.
Given the (rather amusing) attempts lately by multiple staff members to tag team me on this thread, I don't find that particularly useful, thanks.
Apply for a mod position and get it, then read all you want in the mods subforum.
Haha, no. Why the hell would I want to mod here? And of course you don't have to prove anything to me, nor to anyone. It would simply be in your best interest to do so now and then, in the interest of creating an atmosphere based around trust and transparency rather than subterfuge and intrigue. As I've said, a lack of transparency breeds suspicion, warranted or not.
Don't make up things, I never said that I made the new rules because dc called PN a puta.
You claimed that there was previously no rule about not insulting people, and mentioned darkcat calling PN a puta as an example of the supposed shortcomings of the old rules.
By the way, you didn't answer my question about whether you find PN's treatment of other users on the hide death thread to be an example of appropriate behavior.
What's the point of this topic anyway? To whine? To find faults in what we do? To prove us wrong as much as you can? What will happen? What should happen? What do you want to happen?
Well, I did try suggesting more solutions. You told me you didn't want to hear them.
If you feel like misinterpreting stuff I say and questioning me about it like Hollywood did in his latest post, please PM me.
For the record, this is what I said to you in my post prior to this one:
Everyone has understood and respected that you have your feelings against the rules - now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN) or want to read about MD's fantasies?
So now I've "terrorized and insulted" PN? Ha, good one! So now pointing out when User A harasses and insults User B counts as harassment of User A?
Examples of me "terrorizing" PN, por favor?
You claimed that I've terrorized PN, I asked for examples of where I've done that. If I've misinterpreted what you said, then explain what you meant.
And yes, if you make a false public claim that I have done something which I haven't, I AM going to "question you about it". Publicly. If you're going to claim I did something to someone, back it up with proof. Give me examples of where I was "terrorizing" PN.
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I won't post further in this thread or any of the likes that might be created in the future.
If you feel like misinterpreting stuff I say and questioning me about it like Hollywood did in his latest post, please PM me.
Same here by the way.
I'll always answer PMs though.
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You claimed that I've terrorized PN, I asked for examples of where I've done that. If I've misinterpreted what you said, then explain what you meant.
And yes, if you make a false public claim that I have done something which I haven't, I AM going to "question you about it". Publicly. If you're going to claim I did something to someone, back it up with proof. Give me examples of where I was "terrorizing" PN.
If you want to continue this so badly, then can you PM exactly where I said that you in person has terrorized or insulted PN?
I never wrote once in that post that "Hollywood has insulted/terrorized PN". By "you" in that post I meant everyone who's opposing the staff (especially you and MD) with everything they've got right now. And I wrote that "you" seemingly do not care for fellow users' feelings - that it is OK to terrorize/insult other users like what has happened to PN in the past.
Please stop twisting everything your way because there's really NO POINT AT ALL TO IT - and if you still want to discuss it I'll be available by PM.
Otherwise you will not get further replies.
(I replied to this one last time because I'm assuming you totally missed the half of my last post that specifically said I won't post here anymore. Guess you'll have to actually start reading posts before questioning them.)
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Same here by the way.
I'll always answer PMs though.
No surprise there, in the past you've always resorted to avoidance when you became unable to answer my questions. No reason this time should be any different.
Of course, your public avoidance of my questions is an answer in itself. I find your lack of public response to this part especially interesting:
By the way, you didn't answer my question about whether you find PN's treatment of other users on the hide death thread to be an example of appropriate behavior.
Because I've asked you that twice now, and you've avoided it twice.
If you want to continue this so badly, then can you PM exactly where I said that you in person has terrorized or insulted PN?
I never wrote once in that post that "Hollywood has insulted/terrorized PN".
This is the full text of your post; I've highlighted the particularly relevant parts:
Really, Hollywood. All I'm saying is that anyone here is free to be a rocker/rebel and whatever. Use whatever language you feel is necessary and talk about things that you think are cool. Just don't offend or be a dick towards other people. Everyone on this board are real live people with real feelings.
Everyone has understood and respected that you have your feelings against the rules - now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN) or want to read about MD's fantasies?
And don't tell me this is impossible, because it is possible.
The post was clearly addressed to me. Clearly. If it was about "everyone who's opposing the staff", why did you call me by name? If MD was supposedly included in "you", why did you mention him separately?
Even if you make a cowardly attempt to back out of it like this:
By "you" in that post I meant everyone who's opposing the staff (especially you and MD) with everything they've got right now. And I wrote that "you" seemingly do not care for fellow users' feelings - that it is OK to terrorize/insult other users like what has happened to PN in the past.
...You're still talking about me. I am not MD. If you are including me in "you", show me where I terrorized PN.
You made a public claim, now back it up. Show me, here so that everyone can see, where I terrorized PN. Or keep your promised silence, and thereby proving to everyone that your claim is a crock of shit. Up to you.
And before you start with any kind of "baawwwwww, Hollywood's picking on me!": if you don't like me calling you out, don't spread bullshit about me that you can't back up. It's that easy.
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Not answering anything (because this topic is not leading anywhere, not because I'm unable to answer any questions), but taking advantage of our silence here and saying stuff like that is what I'd call low.
Again, if anyone has any more questions, feel free to PM me, I'd be glad to answer.
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Not answering anything (because this topic is not leading anywhere, not because I'm unable to answer any questions), but taking advantage of our silence here and saying stuff like that is what I'd call low.
"Taking advantage of your silence"? It's not like your fingers have fallen off and you're suddenly unable to type public posts (if that happened and I "took advantage" of that, sure, THAT would be low).
But as it is, you've chosen silence for yourself. That choice is, in itself, an extremely clear statement.
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But as it is, you've chosen silence for yourself. That choice is, in itself, an extremely clear statement.
THAT is low. Reading out false statements from our actions knowing that we won't answer.
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OMG. And the drama goes on ... It's getting tiring more and more and I, personally, can totally understand, that the staff now doesn't want to answer anymore, one after another. Not because they are a bunch of cowards or know that they are wrong or anything ... But it's getting more and more ridiculous with every post, because every little misunderstanding turns into even bigger drama.
Well ... Hollywood. I have nothing against you, not at all. xD; But you are getting lost in details that much that it's really hard to keep up with what this whole thing even is about °_°
E.g this one -
This is the full text of your post; I've highlighted the particularly relevant parts:
Really, Hollywood. All I'm saying is that anyone here is free to be a rocker/rebel and whatever. Use whatever language you feel is necessary and talk about things that you think are cool. Just don't offend or be a dick towards other people. Everyone on this board are real live people with real feelings.
Everyone has understood and respected that you have your feelings against the rules - now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN) or want to read about MD's fantasies?
And don't tell me this is impossible, because it is possible.
The post was clearly addressed to me. Clearly. If it was about "everyone who's opposing the staff", why did you call me by name? If MD was supposedly included in "you", why did you mention him separately?
Even if you make a cowardly attempt to back out of it like this:
When I read Millies statement I understand it this way:
If anyone (all users) wants to speak free, be a rebel or whatever - he is free to do so! But nobody should behave like an asshole and terrorize people - and I am pretty sure she DIDN'T intend to say that YOU did that. But other users did and that's not really cool.
I am wondering how to get clear, because I know what to say but hardly how to express it ...
Eh. Millie knows that you (yes, you. And MD. And many other users here) have something against the new rules, find them to strict, etc. But that you (yes, you again) should understand that other people might think they're good or neccessary, because they don't want to be offended by other users (no, NOT you.).
I hope I got it right.
I usually like getting lsot in details ... but not this time. All this stuff really gets tooo long and it's just exeggarated. I'm sorry to say this, but imo you are atm just overreacting. I understood at the beginning, what your problem is ... but I think the whole discussion is totally out of proportion to the goal you're trying to achieve. (btw, what was this EXACTLY? Changing the rules a bit again ... and ...? What? Do you want the mods to admit they are wrong, do you want PN to be de-admined? What do you want?)
I mean ... there is all this fighint going on here while the rest of the forum is still going well (yeah, i really think so) ... So I think right at the moment it is pretty unneccessary. Just my thoughts. ._.
And some last thing (xD I'm done soon!): About the band's attitude stuff and how to talk on the forum - nobody ever said we should behave like nuns here or something ;3 I'm sure if you would write something in a thread like "DAMN, this show was so fucking amazing, it blew me away!" nobody would say ANYTHING.
And that's the point ... I don't think all the 'strict' rules are really that neccessary, BUT I also don't see how they really determine YOU (since you aren't a troll. Or some kind of swearing machine. xD Or making stupid little comments everywhere ... etc.pp.)
So, sorry for the long post, I really hope my point got clear.
Have a nice day xD;
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Aw what ever Maya says i will agree ;3
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THAT is low. Reading out false statements from our actions knowing that we won't answer.
As I said: you chose silence of your own free will. That's a statement. I don't see how you can possibly claim otherwise.
If you don't like people pointing out the fact that you're refusing to answer questions publicly, there's an easy way to fix that: answer the questions. In the time it takes you to complain that I'm "taking advantage of your silence", you could have answered my questions and proven me wrong about your inability to provide adequate public answers for them. Your continued silence only furthers my point.
When I read Millies statement I understand it this way:
If anyone (all users) wants to speak free, be a rebel or whatever - he is free to do so! But nobody should behave like an asshole and terrorize people - and I am pretty sure she DIDN'T intend to say that YOU did that. But other users did and that's not really cool.
I am wondering how to get clear, because I know what to say but hardly how to express it ...
Eh. Millie knows that you (yes, you. And MD. And many other users here) have something against the new rules, find them to strict, etc. But that you (yes, you again) should understand that other people might think they're good or neccessary, because they don't want to be offended by other users (no, NOT you.).
I'm not sure why then she addressed the post to me ("Really, Hollywood."). And of course people are welcome to like the new rules if they want. According to the poll, about 2/5 of voters do like them, though the majority-- about 3/5-- would like at least something about them to be changed.
But as for what Millie meant, I'd really like for her to explain it herself. I think there's one yes/no question I can ask that will sufficiently determine intent, so:
Millie, do you believe that have I terrorized PN?
(btw, what was this EXACTLY? Changing the rules a bit again ... and ...? What? Do you want the mods to admit they are wrong, do you want PN to be de-admined? What do you want?)
Ideally, I would personally like:
- The rules to be "rolled back" to their previous version. If the previous version is supposedly lost forever, then "something like the previous version" is fine.
- The administrating/moderating style around here to change. Some staff members are doing just fine of course, but there have been many recent occurrences of double-standards where staff members are allowed to break rules (especially when it comes to ad hominem insults against others) while regular users are not. Staff, admins especially, should set an example for the kind of behavior they want to see on the forum. This obviously includes staff following their own rules.
- More administrative transparency, no more attempts to shut users up or privatize conversations when they become uncomfortable for staff. Refusing to discuss issues with users or answer questions publicly is ridiculous. Staff should be willing and able to publicly explain themselves and their actions.
- A public apology to users (as a whole) would be appreciated, especially from PN and Hypno.
- While I do think PN deserves to be de-adminned, as I have said many times before I am perfectly fine with Hypno's decision that she will be de-adminned if she acts inappropriately again.
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I would like to remind you that I'm still waiting for your suggestions for changing the rules.
So far I have gotten 0 (zero, nil, none) PMs and if this continues, I'll just assume that you voted the wrong thing and didn't notice that you could change your vote. I don't think that's the case though.
That's funny. I distinctly remember already having made my suggestions, which you (Hypno) already read and commented on:
So, for normal users:
1. Don't insult or harass other users, and don't post other users' PMs without their permission.
2. No spamming.
3. When posting translations or rumors, please include a disclaimer to remind others that there may be mistakes or other inaccuracies.
4. Maximum avatar size is (whatever).
5. Don't share audio or video files outside of the sharing subforum.
Why are any rules necessary beyond that?
By the way, the admin/mod rules are actually fine, the only problem there is that they aren't consistently upheld or enforced and that the admins (note plural) bend them at will.
Page 5 of this thread.
http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?topic=2705.msg45250#msg45250
Or are you going to claim this didn't "count" because it wasn't PMed? Well, I can always copy&paste this post I'm making into a PM if you would like to be so petty as to demand me to do so. Just let me know.
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Yes, PM them.
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Hahaha, are you serious? So you're honestly claiming it didn't "count" because it wasn't PMed? That's hilarious!
One would think that if you had any sincere interest in reading and considering people's suggestions, you'd APPRECIATE suggestions posted on threads, rather than going to great lengths to ignore them and then getting off on the notion of making users jump through hoops.
Then again, if you had any sincere interest in reading and considering people's suggestions, you would probably have done so at the outset rather than waiting two months and letting your forum go to shit. (Are you actually surprised that no one's PMing you? Everyone's already been offering suggestions for two fucking months.)
Oh well, I think this says it all right here:
Well, I can always copy&paste this post I'm making into a PM if you would like to be so petty as to demand me to do so. Just let me know.
Yes, PM them.
Now THAT is classic.
One might wonder what happened to your hands that has made it possible for you to type posts but impossible for you to copy&paste my suggestions on your own, but hey, I'll be the good guy and help you out. PMed.
Can I offer you any financial assistance in getting your mysterious hand injury checked out?
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I prefer properly written PMs (which I still didn't get, from you that is, but I guess I'll let that pass) to "see page x, post z on y thread", as then they'll be in one place when I'm making the report (though at this rate there won't be much to report). And, I'm happy with the rules, so are a lot of others. If YOU want some changes, you should be willing to move yourself at least AS MUCH as to write me a PM.
2 PMs this far. Come on people, I thought you wanted changes? I don't even know what you want changed (yes Hollywood, I know what you want changed, no need to answer this).
AND I asked your opinions when making the rules. And implementing new rules and then instantly starting to change them, without even trying them out would have been, imo, more stupid than "waiting two months and letting your forum go to shit" (I haven't noticed any changes tbh, except it's a bit quieter with MD gone= a bit better than before).
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I prefer properly written PMs (which I still didn't get, from you that is, but I guess I'll let that pass) to "see page x, post z on y thread"
Since you seem to be having a selectively-recurring hand injury, I PMed you the entire contents of this post (http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?&topic=2705.msg46300#msg46300). You know, the one I offered to PM you and you said you wanted me to.
Why you were entirely unable to copy&paste it yourself, I don't know. But I PMed it anyway.
So, do you have any other anal requests for random unnecessary tasks which you expect me to perform before acknowledging you've read a post of mine that you already acknowledged you've read? Shall I post while jumping through a flaming hoop on a motorcycle next time?
If YOU want some changes, you should be willing to move yourself at least AS MUCH as to write me a PM.
Oh, come off it, I've already suggested changes to you on about five different threads, all of which have been moved, locked, or adversely affected by your tragic hand injury.
I don't even know what you want changed
You would if you had bothered to acknowledge what roughly 30 people have been telling you at various times for the past two months.
AND I asked your opinions when making the rules.
When making the new rules? When the hell was that? You mean when you said "I'm making new rules" and a bunch of people said "that won't solve the problem" and/or "we don't want any additional rules"?
Honestly, Hypno. Stop pretending no one's ever suggested anything, stop putting up petty and arbitrary barriers to communication, and stop making shit up.
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I prefer properly written PMs (which I still didn't get, from you that is, but I guess I'll let that pass) to "see page x, post z on y thread"
Since you seem to be having a selectively-recurring hand injury, I PMed you the entire contents of this post (http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?&topic=2705.msg46300#msg46300). You know, the one I offered to PM you and you said you wanted me to.
Why you were entirely unable to copy&paste it yourself, I don't know. But I PMed it anyway.
I got you PM but it wasn't properly written (if you'd read my post about the suggestion PMs, you'd know what I mean). And where should I have copypasted it? To a text file that I'll loose in the mess my MyDocuments are? A post-it note on my monitor? A PM to myself?
Oh, come off it, I've already suggested changes to you on about five different threads, all of which have been moved, locked, or adversely affected by your tragic hand injury.
You have a) Suggested that we bring back the old rules (which you didn't remember yourself), and then b) Suggested a completely different set of rules, from the original ones.
When making the new rules? When the hell was that? You mean when you said "I'm making new rules" and a bunch of people said "that won't solve the problem" and/or "we don't want any additional rules"?
Honestly, Hypno. Stop pretending no one's ever suggested anything, stop putting up petty and arbitrary barriers to communication, and stop making shit up.
That's strange, I clearly remember getting a few PMs with suggestions for the new rules, including from you, more than a week before the new rules were implemented. Who's making up shit here?
(On a completely other note- if MD would still be here, he'd start using that 'hand injury' "joke" (if it's meant so) in every post or so)
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I guess I am going to ignore the dialogue above - not that I did not have my opinion, but both interested parties know it and that's enough for now. I'm too ill at the moment to elaborate on this.
There is, however, one thing I want to say, as it seems that only 2 PMs have been sent so far, one from Hollywood and one from me. However, apart from the two of us, other 38 people voted for a change as well, yet not even one of them has bothered to send the PM so far. I know some of you have already posted suggestions and though I understand your possible unwillingness to send them again via PM, I also think that we can see that no other way will be accepted.
Therefore, I would like to say one thing to those who voted for change but have not (so far) lifted a finger to write and send your own suggestions:
You do disappoint me, guys.
It's a real shame, seeing so many of you talking big in private but then leaving everything to others. I understand that many of you might not be here now, might not be able to post anything because of various reasons - but don't tell me it's all 38 of you. Are you ashamed of what you voted for? Or do you simply "chill" somehwere and wait for the things to resolve, somehow? If you decide to vote and voice your dissatisfaction, then kindly stand behind of what you say and act accordingly! Otherwise you are just making yourself look foolish - and not only yourself, but also those who actually bothered themselves to do something more than clicking a button! Thank you.
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Thanks Anna.
I would also like to say, that suggestions are always welcome. But if you have any about the rules, it'd be best if we could get them all at once, it would make it easier for us to deal with them and bigger chances for your voice to be heard.
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3rd PM sent. Sorry for not sending it earlier but I returned from Italy yesterday.
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I got you PM but it wasn't properly written (if you'd read my post about the suggestion PMs, you'd know what I mean).
If it was unclear, why not ask me what I meant rather than whining about it ad nauseum? Since I haven't received a single question about it from you, I'm going to assume that my meaning was perfectly clear and you're simply being juvenile. If something really WAS unclear, ask me about it.
And where should I have copypasted it? To a text file that I'll loose in the mess my MyDocuments are? A post-it note on my monitor? A PM to myself?
Oh, please, are you serious? This is so utterly ridiculous, I'm at a loss for words to describe precisely the depths of inanity that have now been reached.
Obviously, if you are posting the suggestions somewhere for them to be discussed among the staff, you will need to-- brace yourself-- copy&paste them there from people's PMs. If you were more interested in people's suggestions than in continuing this preschool-level "neener neener, you STILL didn't suggest it right!" bullshitry, I'm sure your selective hand injury would miraculously heal to an extent that would allow you to copy&paste something from a post.
You have a) Suggested that we bring back the old rules (which you didn't remember yourself), and then b) Suggested a completely different set of rules, from the original ones.
Oh. If you understand that I suggested a set of rules, then I guess my PM made sense after all. :)
I don't remember the specifics of the old rules, and you said you didn't remember them either, therefore I suggested something along the lines of what I thought I remembered. Out of curiosity, how do you know that the rules I suggested were "completely different" if you lost the old rules and don't remember what they were? (Oops.)
That's strange, I clearly remember getting a few PMs with suggestions for the new rules, including from you, more than a week before the new rules were implemented.
Actually, you're right, I forgot about that. My apologies. (Yeah, check it out, I admit when I'm wrong-- novel concept around here, I know.) I'll point out, however, that the suggestion in my PM to you was to keep the rules as they were.
Just wondering, how many of the current set of rules are based on the suggestions of users other than PN?
Therefore, I would like to say one thing to those who voted for change but have not (so far) lifted a finger to write and send your own suggestions:
You do disappoint me, guys.
Hmm. I completely understand your point, but I can't say I'm entirely disappointed myself. It's become blatantly obvious that no amount of trying to reason with the administration is effective, that the staff (with the exception of a couple now-nearly-inactive mods) has no interest in what users want, and that nothing is going to change-- except maybe for the worse, as administrative attempts to weasel out of accusations become more and more outlandish, and more and more previously-active users get fed up and disappear.
I'm thinking that's 37 pragmatic realists, frankly. When a forum gets THIS far gone, it becomes harder and harder to care.
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Oh, please, are you serious? This is so utterly ridiculous, I'm at a loss for words to describe precisely the depths of inanity that have now been reached.
Obviously, if you are posting the suggestions somewhere for them to be discussed among the staff, you will need to-- brace yourself-- copy&paste them there from people's PMs. If you were more interested in people's suggestions than in continuing this preschool-level "neener neener, you STILL didn't suggest it right!" bullshitry, I'm sure your selective hand injury would miraculously heal to an extent that would allow you to copy&paste something from a post.
I'm making the report on Monday. It's Sunday now.
Oh. If you understand that I suggested a set of rules, then I guess my PM made sense after all. :)
I don't remember the specifics of the old rules, and you said you didn't remember them either, therefore I suggested something along the lines of what I thought I remembered. Out of curiosity, how do you know that the rules I suggested were "completely different" if you lost the old rules and don't remember what they were? (Oops.)
I found the oldest variation of the old rules from an old database backup AND posted them (here) somewhere. I'm pretty sure you saw them and if I'm not completely mistaken, even commented on them.
Just wondering, how many of the current set of rules are based on the suggestions of users other than PN?
Quite a lot actually. Most of them I suggested. Though, that's because there haven't been that many rules suggestions by other users.
Hmm. I completely understand your point, but I can't say I'm entirely disappointed myself. It's become blatantly obvious that no amount of trying to reason with the administration is effective, that the staff (with the exception of a couple now-nearly-inactive mods) has no interest in what users want, and that nothing is going to change-- except maybe for the worse, as administrative attempts to weasel out of accusations become more and more outlandish, and more and more previously-active users get fed up and disappear.
I'm thinking that's 37 pragmatic realists, frankly. When a forum gets THIS far gone, it becomes harder and harder to care.
Oh yeah we have gone far... Wait. Far where?
Anyway, with your attitude right there, nothing could change. Only whining and whining and when I finally ask, what do you want, you are like 'bwah, nothing is going to change, the staff doesn't care, bwahbwhah". (And yes, I know that you said what you want, I appreciate that)
AND your "more previously-active users get fed up and disappear" is also what I call low. While I'm not saying that some now-inactive users might not be inactive because of the current issue with rules and/or PN, you don't know it either. And saying that they left because of it is just an attempt to make us, the staff look bad. They might have irl issues, they might loose interest in X, there could be a million reasons.
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I'm making the report on Monday. It's Sunday now.
That's why you can't copy&paste? Huh? I don't understand.
I found the oldest variation of the old rules from an old database backup AND posted them (here) somewhere. I'm pretty sure you saw them and if I'm not completely mistaken, even commented on them.
Yeah, I saw them and commented on them. So? You still claim not to remember the version of the rules immediately previous to the current one, and then claim that the rules I suggested were so very different. I don't get why it even matters whether they were different or not.
And since you haven't asked me for clarifications on my PM, I'm going to guess that it was indeed clear.
Just wondering, how many of the current set of rules are based on the suggestions of users other than PN?
Quite a lot actually. Most of them I suggested.
Uh, OK. That doesn't really help your claim of listening to others.
Anyway, with your attitude right there, nothing could change. Only whining and whining and when I finally ask, what do you want, you are like 'bwah, nothing is going to change, the staff doesn't care, bwahbwhah". (And yes, I know that you said what you want, I appreciate that)
If you acknowledge and appreciate that I said what I want, then what seems to be the problem?
AND your "more previously-active users get fed up and disappear" is also what I call low. While I'm not saying that some now-inactive users might not be inactive because of the current issue with rules and/or PN, you don't know it either. And saying that they left because of it is just an attempt to make us, the staff look bad. They might have irl issues, they might loose interest in X, there could be a million reasons.
Right after the rules and the drama following them, the many people who went inactive ALL instantly developed IRL issues and/or lost interest in X? Somehow I find that hard to believe.
As a point of fact, I DO know why several of them went inactive, because they've told me about it. And I've heard a lot of "I'm disappointed in the staff members", "reasoning with the admins is useless", "I don't like being there anymore because of how the staff treats people", stuff like that. I do know of one person who simply got very busy RL. One.
But that's all my word against yours. If you really want to find out why people are leaving, I suggest asking them. And again I would suggest a poll, because as you can see, there are plenty of dissatisfied people who will answer a poll but do not want to send you a PM.
Frankly, I think the results of the rules poll, combined with the lack of suggestion PMs, is in itself a pretty good clue as to how a lot-- according to the poll, the majority-- of users who participated in the poll are feeling right now.
The majority of voters don't like something about the rules and also don't want to talk to you.
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I'm making the report on Monday. It's Sunday now.
That's why you can't copy&paste? Huh? I don't understand.
Yeah, as I had nowhere to copypaste it. Simple
Yeah, I saw them and commented on them. So? You still claim not to remember the version of the rules immediately previous to the current one, and then claim that the rules I suggested were so very different. I don't get why it even matters whether they were different or not.
The newer older rules were the same, only with some rules added (the translation one, YM Messages one, PMs one, etc).
Uh, OK. That doesn't really help your claim of listening to others.
Damn man, do you even read stuff that I write? "Though, that's because there haven't been that many rules suggestions by other users."
Right after the rules and the drama following them, the many people who went inactive ALL instantly developed IRL issues and/or lost interest in X? Somehow I find that hard to believe.
As a point of fact, I DO know why several of them went inactive, because they've told me about it. And I've heard a lot of "I'm disappointed in the staff members", "reasoning with the admins is useless", "I don't like being there anymore because of how the staff treats people", stuff like that. I do know of one person who simply got very busy RL. One.
But that's all my word against yours. If you really want to find out why people are leaving, I suggest asking them. And again I would suggest a poll, because as you can see, there are plenty of dissatisfied people who will answer a poll but do not want to send you a PM.
Frankly, I think the results of the rules poll, combined with the lack of suggestion PMs, is in itself a pretty good clue as to how a lot-- according to the poll, the majority-- of users who participated in the poll are feeling right now.
The majority of voters don't like something about the rules and also don't want to talk to you.
Well, for starters, summer came. And I also know people who post less because of what you do here.
And if they vote that they'd like to see rules changed but don't say WHAT they want changed, I really can't help right? I can't really see what they should be afraid of. My anger towards them? HA! I know at least three people who are more or less openly opposing me or showing at least some degree of dissatisfaction, but I still get on with them perfectly fine. I would even dare to call them my friends. There is nothing wrong in stating your opinion.
Also, as there weren't many PMs, I'll let people send more, though I'll make the report now and edit it later.
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Yeah, as I had nowhere to copypaste it. Simple
Oh. Then since you are miraculously able to copy&paste on Mondays but not on any other day of the week, couldn't you have waited until Miraculous Copy&Paste Ability Monday and then copy&pasted the suggestions from my post?
Really, I'm fascinated. Could you tell us all more about the convoluted and arcane details of when you are and aren't able to copy&paste short paragraphs? (Can you copy&paste during blue moons? How about solar eclipses?)
The newer older rules were the same, only with some rules added (the translation one, YM Messages one, PMs one, etc).
I know there was nothing there about Yoshiki Mobile. Otherwise people would not have immediately begun mocking that rule when the new rules were announced.
And if there WAS something about translations and something about PMs, then how were my suggestions so radically different from that? Didn't I include something about translations and PMs there? You're arguing in circles now. Could you remind me again of how any of this supposedly invalidates my suggestions and what exactly your point is?
Well, for starters, summer came. And I also know people who post less because of what you do here.
Oh. I thought you said "there could be a million reasons"? And now you know the reasons specifically? That's fascinating.
By the way, I know of no one who is "afraid" of you. Trust me on that one. A lot of people are simply annoyed that you're being immature and unreasonable and your attempts at argument make little to no logical sense (the whole "I'm unable to copy&paste" claim being a spectacular example of all three).
As I've said: if you are truly interested in why people are leaving, stop blowing smoke and start fact-finding. Make a poll. See how it turns out. Or are you concerned that, like the rules poll, it won't end up in your favor?
There is nothing wrong in stating your opinion.
Really? I thought you just claimed that "what I do here" (state my opinions, presumably) is part of the reason your forum is losing users. Contradicting yourself again, huh? Oops.
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It seems I lost the point of this 'discussion' or at least I don't get it why it's going on and on and on, with the same users and the same posts *g*
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I know there was nothing there about Yoshiki Mobile. Otherwise people would not have immediately begun mocking that rule when the new rules were announced.
Hmm I'm almost sure there was one. Not going to argue though, just in case.
And if there WAS something about translations and something about PMs, then how were my suggestions so radically different from that? Didn't I include something about translations and PMs there? You're arguing in circles now. Could you remind me again of how any of this supposedly invalidates my suggestions and what exactly your point is?
Now where did I say something invalidates your suggestions? Stop making shit up!
Oh. I thought you said "there could be a million reasons"? And now you know the reasons specifically? That's fascinating.
For hide's sake! I only brought one example why they might be leaving! There might be millions of reasons, and this might be one of them.
As I've said: if you are truly interested in why people are leaving, stop blowing smoke and start fact-finding. Make a poll. See how it turns out. Or are you concerned that, like the rules poll, it won't end up in your favor?
Ummm... If a person leaves, how is he supposed to answer my poll? I'll e-mail them? How do I know they aren't just on vacation for a week? Or should I make a poll 'If you'd leave tomorrow, then why?' or 'Are you going to leave? If yes, why?'. Sounds stupid imo...
Really? I thought you just claimed that "what I do here" (state my opinions, presumably) is part of the reason your forum is losing users. Contradicting yourself again, huh? Oops.
Stating your opinions is ok, but for 8 pages? Arguing with absolutely everything? As Matthias said, this discussion has lost it's point. So I think I'm going back to the 'not answering ie. hitting my head against the wall' mode.
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Now where did I say something invalidates your suggestions?
Then what the hell is your point when you keep harping on how you don't remember the old rules (but you remember they're not what I suggested)? I tried to figure out what your point was, and that's all I could possibly come up with. Did I miss a sage gem of wisdom here?
Ummm... If a person leaves, how is he supposed to answer my poll? I'll e-mail them? How do I know they aren't just on vacation for a week? Or should I make a poll 'If you'd leave tomorrow, then why?' or 'Are you going to leave? If yes, why?'. Sounds stupid imo...
You could ask why people are less active. Plenty of people are significantly less active but still check in on occasion. You could also mass-email people about it like was done with the rules poll, to catch some of those who really don't log in anymore.
One would assume that admins would consider such information valuable to running their forum-- that is, if they care at all about retaining users. You've lost a number of your major content contributers and you don't even care to find out why?
As I've said, I can only imagine that you must be expecting another unflattering result.
So I think I'm going back to the 'not answering ie. hitting my head against the wall' mode.
Aww, but I want to read more about how you're physically unable to copy&paste! :(
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I'm just curious on the outcome of these rules suggestions. I mean, are the rules staying the same? New additions? A whole new set of rules? Are we all getting pet llamas? I have no idea what is going on. Can we get some kind of update or something? Ya know, something that doesn't take weeks to announce.
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@leira83: Well, Hypno asked for suggestion what changes the user (which voted that the want some changes) would like to have. So everyone could contribute and send him what he wants to have changed, but it seems not so many people did it (myself included perhaps 4 or 5 people, as far as I know).
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I think she was more wondering what's gonna happen now that the poll is over and that the suggestions has been sent.
First, we talk about the suggestion and then we change the rule so it fits better to everyone. Though I think it'd be good to put a deadline, without deadline, things always take longer.
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Mmmm, now that I can post again and since you guys were talking about this... I'm going to say why I'm not active (and I won't)... mmm, maybe because some staff members treats me and my contributions like shit?
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some staff members treats me and my contributions like shit?
Exactly. And most of the great contributors who have now gone inactive have a very, very similar story to tell.
Anyone who somehow infringes upon PN's imaginary status as the World's Only Person Who Knows Anything At All About X (c) will be ignored at best, and in most cases treated like shit or actively villified. Especially if their contributions are interesting, factual, or useful, because that's what poses the biggest threat to PN's "information monopoly" and her attempts to twist facts to fit her impossible-to-prove "theories" about X.
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I haven't participated in this forum drama that seems to be going on at some level..
Anyway, so far I have liked being here but I guess that is obvious.
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some staff members treats me and my contributions like shit?
Exactly. And most of the great contributors who have now gone inactive have a very, very similar story to tell.
Anyone who somehow infringes upon PN's imaginary status as the World's Only Person Who Knows Anything At All About X (c) will be ignored at best, and in most cases treated like shit or actively villified. Especially if their contributions are interesting, factual, or useful, because that's what poses the biggest threat to PN's "information monopoly" and her attempts to twist facts to fit her impossible-to-prove "theories" about X.
We have a saying here, that goes a bit like- 'how you to the village, so the village to you'. I'm not saying I appreciate everyone's contributions and I'm sure most of us here do, but using it as a shield of some kind, as an excuse to act like you did, is well... shit!
And I haven't seen anyone ignored for their contribution. Some people answer on some topics, others on others. I, for example haven't read any posts at the D.T.R. section, because it's the one band I'm not that interested in. I'm sure most of us have topics they won't answer, just because they have nothing to say. You see, we can't dictate what people think or where they post. If someone's contributions are ignored by everyone, then they are probably worth ignoring. Or do you say that the staff forces everyone to say what we want? No! Everyone has an opinion and is free to express it. Simple.
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Thank you, Hypno. Once again, you've done an excellent job of proving my point.
As you know, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you like D.T.R or reply to posts in the D.T.R section (what the fuck?). I honestly could not care less about either of those points.
This is about how-- as you've just illustrated-- you and your friends like to pretend that I'm some kind of troll who has never done anything on this site but complain and then make a few token comments about D.T.R for no other reason than to create what you call a "shield".
Unfortunately, that's complete and utter bullshit.
In the first six months or so that I've been on X Freaks, I averaged about 9 posts a day and posted in at least half of the subforums. And that wasn't useless one-sentence "I agree" posts either. That was useful information, answers to people's questions about X, commentary and opinions with explanations of why I think/feel that way, etc. In short, I generated a shitload of quality content and activity for your site, because I liked the place. You will notice that my user statistics (http://"http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?&action=profile;u=3840;sa=statPanel") neatly corroborate the fact that I've made a whole lot of posts in a variety of different subforums.
As for darkcat, he was the best news source on your site. And naturally, because PN apparently feels threatened by news and information sources she can't control, steps were taken to censor darkcat and shut him down. Remember, PN censoring darkcat and attempting to censor me, when neither of us had broken any rules, was part of what started this whole thing.
Once all the bullshit started, did I become less inclined toward generating content for your site? Fuck yes I did. As darkcat said, treating people like shit and ignoring their contributions to your site-- and by "ignoring" I mean "pretending someone is a troll and never contributed anything useful simply because you've decided you don't like the guy"-- is not exactly a way to inspire people back to activity.
Like I said, thanks for proving my point.
As for "acting like I did", show me where I've ever broken a rule here. If I've broken rules, then copy&paste the incident here (if you're physically able to do so) and ban me or whatever.
The fact is that you and your staff friends have broken more of your own rules than I ever have.
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This is about how-- as you've just illustrated-- you and your friends like to pretend that I'm some kind of troll who has never done anything on this site but complain and then make a few token comments about D.T.R for no other reason than to create what you call a "shield".
Lately, as I pointed out, you have only complained. I have never said that you only complain so stop accusing me of things I haven't done. And saying that it's wrong to ban someone for breaking the rules just because he/she contributes much, is bullshit.
In the first six months or so that I've been on X Freaks, I averaged about 9 posts a day and posted in at least half of the subforums. And that wasn't useless one-sentence "I agree" posts either. That was useful information, answers to people's questions about X, commentary and opinions with explanations of why I think/feel that way, etc. In short, I generated a shitload of quality content and activity for your site, because I liked the place. You will notice that my user statistics (http://"http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?&action=profile;u=3840;sa=statPanel") neatly corroborate the fact that I've made a whole lot of posts in a variety of different subforums.
And who said anything otherwise?
Once all the bullshit started, did I become less inclined toward generating content for your site? Fuck yes I did. As darkcat said, treating people like shit and ignoring their contributions to your site-- and by "ignoring" I mean "pretending someone is a troll and never contributed anything useful simply because you've decided you don't like the guy"-- is not exactly a way to inspire people back to activity.
I don't like the guy? I considered darkcat a friend before he started acting like a five year old. And I still don't consider him my 'enemy' or anything. As I said, he can't break the rules just because he has contributed much.
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Lately, as I pointed out, you have only complained.
You mean when you derailed a serious question thread offtopic with your obsessive-compulsive analysis of my last however many posts? Haha, that was funny, I had no idea you were such a Hollywood fanboy as to actually bother with shit like that!
As for "lately": as darkcat and I both said, don't expect people to keep contributing to your site when you treat your best contributors like shit. This isn't exactly rocket science.
And saying that it's wrong to ban someone for breaking the rules just because he/she contributes much, is bullshit.
When the fuck did I ever say it was wrong to ban someone for breaking rules?
Welcome back, strawmen! Oh, how I have missed thee! :D
So, if I've generated a large amount of content for your site and I haven't broken any rules, what exactly seems to be your problem? Is PN still butthurt that anyone other than herself knows anything about X, or what?
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You mean when you derailed a serious question thread offtopic with your obsessive-compulsive analysis of my last however many posts? Haha, that was funny, I had no idea you were such a Hollywood fanboy as to actually bother with shit like that!
Yes I mean the thread where I tried to explain you that lately you have only been posting in certain threads. It didn't take more than a few clicks and some mouse rolling. And for the record, I'm not your fanboy and probably never will be.
As for "lately": as darkcat and I both said, don't expect people to keep contributing to your site when you treat your best contributors like shit. This isn't exactly rocket science.
As I tried to point out, I don't treat people differently because they have been contributing more, they are not 'better' and I'm not treating them 'better'.
When the fuck did I ever say it was wrong to ban someone for breaking rules?
Welcome back, strawmen! Oh, how I have missed thee! :D
So, if I've generated a large amount of content for your site and I haven't broken any rules, what exactly seems to be your problem? Is PN still butthurt that anyone other than herself knows anything about X, or what?
You said that we treat contributors like shit, I say we treat them the way we treat them because they broke the rules (ok, they is a wrong word, I only mean darkcat here and you probably do also). And what is my problem? You and darkcat started this thread again. I only replied to you (which, I admit, is really a stupid thing to do).
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Yes I mean the thread where I tried to explain you that lately you have only been posting in certain threads.
By derailing a serious question into an embarassingly offtopic ad hominem whine.
It didn't take more than a few clicks and some mouse rolling.
Good thing it didn't require any copy&pasting!
And for the record, I'm not your fanboy and probably never will be.
Not believing this, given how much you clearly enjoy our one-on-one talks. Sure you don't want my autograph, now? ;)
As I tried to point out, I don't treat people differently because they have been contributing more, they are not 'better' and I'm not treating them 'better'.
Damn straight you don't treat them better. As I've said, the more factual information or news anyone contributes, the worse you and your staff friends treat them.
You said that we treat contributors like shit, I say we treat them the way we treat them because they broke the rules (ok, they is a wrong word, I only mean darkcat here and you probably do also).
Darkcat had been treated like shit since long before he was banned. I've been treated like shit despite having never broken any rules. I can think offhand of a couple other people in precisely the same boat I am. I won't name them as I'm not sure whether or not they want to be involved, but I'm certain you know who I mean (and no, I don't mean MiscastDice).
And what is my problem? You and darkcat started this thread again.
Darkcat did nothing more than explain why he no longer contributes in the way he used to; I then did the same. If this is not against the rules, then why do you find it to be a problem?
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If you see my answers to you as a problem then I'll gladly stop answering.
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As I've said, the more factual information or news anyone contributes, the worse you and your staff friends treat them.
Anyone, you sure? Even our "staff friends"?
And I sure hope you're aware of your hypocrisy of calling staff members out on mocking users while doing so yourself. :)
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I haven't read everything in this thread. Here's just my theory and thoughts...
I think a lot of people who are aware of this discussion are bothered by the relatively stringent and visible, almost Hobbesian role the rules have got. It would be a demonstration of trust directed at the members if slightly less policing were done.
Now, I know Hypno is a to-be-lawyer, PN is an elderly and apparently quite disciplined former Briton. As a "cultural reader", it may be that there's some incommensurability between this "strict" approach and the ideology that X listeners at least tacitly approve of. ;D Please note that "less policing" does not mean anarchy or encouragement to overthrow governments. My God, if this were the case, no-one could aggressively criticise society without being suspected of societal violence etc.! It is commonly thought that severe criticism and even disagreement of "fundamentals" is the sign of an "Enlightened" society. I think the same applies here. The more colour, the better: people know usually "how to" behave but they won't, most of them, tolerate unfair treatment.
In addition, should the approach of the staff be more lax and invisible, people would feel more spontaneous and at ease. Explicit reinforcement of law and massive bureaucratization kills creativity, and the task of this forum, to my knowledge, is built around a most creative, even liquid institution that is X. To this is connected the desire to "Disneyfy" X Japan by worrying a lot about social acceptability, language, the audience, lawyers, etc. All these are fairly anglo-american themes culturally, and not Japanese, generalizing broadly. In this issue I would also trust the members and their behaviour. Increased trust, I believe, in turn discourages rebellious attitudes.
Thanks.
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PN is an elderly and apparently quite disciplined former Briton
Not quite, more like a middle aged, former German.
There were, however, two main reasons why the new rules were made:
1. Hypno's been planning to do it anyway, just didn't know WHEN
2. To prevent PN and other staff members from abusing their powers because there was no way she'd get de-admined or even banned
Somehow this got twisted around and obviously some members got the impression that the rules were established because we didn't trust THEM and wanted to give PN free hand. AND, while many members complained about the first rule because it's common sense, this was the rule that has been broken most.
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And I'm not a to-be-a-lawyer... I'm taking law as a side subject (so I can get a masters degree later, if I want to, without getting the bachelor first), but my primary subject is International Relations, so I'll more probably get a job in the foreign ministry... But we'll never know :)
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2. To prevent PN and other staff members from abusing their powers because there was no way she'd get de-admined or even banned
But nothing changed... because she abussed her powers when she created the Paris topic, which actually was just another version of the Taiwan thing (is there anyone who still believes the story that it was a mistake? XD) and nothing has been done.
And really... nobody asked for new rules, we wanted PN to be de-admin and we had many reasons why she should be... and instead you created new rules which had nothing to do with what PN had been doing for several months.
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But nothing changed... because she abussed her powers when she created the Paris topic, which actually was just another version of the Taiwan thing (is there anyone who still believes the story that it was a mistake? XD) and nothing has been done.
I think we said it took three indicents to de-admin (like, three warnings to get temp ban for regular users) but I may be wrong, I don't really remember everything we discussed about this indicent on those other threads, but I recall something like that.
And really... nobody asked for new rules, we wanted PN to be de-admin and we had many reasons why she should be... and instead you created new rules which had nothing to do with what PN had been doing for several months.
Yes, and as I said, de-adminning was NO option for us. And I think the rules DO have something to do with her since she hasn't really been on a deleting/editing "crusade" for months now.
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(like, three warnings to get temp ban for regular users)
Then explain me why I was banned with just one warn?
And I think the rules DO have something to do with her since she hasn't really been on a deleting/editing "crusade" for months now.
That's because there haven't been a lot of news not because there are new rules, if I was active and there was another X concert announced, I can imagine me posting the news (or somebody also not "friend of PN" and she deleting the topic, and creating another one just to take credits....
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Then explain me why I was banned with just one warn?
Which time? The second time? I thought you wanted it?
That's because there haven't posted a lot of news not because there are new rules, if I was active and there was another X concert announced, I can imagine me posting the news (or somebody also not "friend of PN" and she deleting the topic, and creating another one just to take credits....
Well the only way to find out would be trying, wouldn't it? ;) See, if you post something and she edits/deletes she gets a warning, if she does so more than once, she get's de adminned, if she leaves your posts alone then it's fine. IMO that's a win/win situation for you. (UNLESS it's YM, of course, because according to the rules, those are not allowed and can and will be removed whether people here like it or not.)
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Which time? The second time? I thought you wanted it?
The 'second jrr' thing.
Well the only way to find out would be trying, wouldn't it? Wink See, if you post something and she edits/deletes she gets a warning, if she does so more than once, she get's de adminned, if she leaves your posts alone then it's fine. IMO that's a win/win situation for you. (UNLESS it's YM, of course, because according to the rules, those are not allowed and can and will be removed whether people here like it or not.)
Well... don't worry because that won't happen again since I won't post any news.
The sadly thing is that we won't never seen a public apology for everything she did (treating my contributions like shit, deleting the Taiwan topic, MD posts, Hollywood PM, bad manners towards some users, etc, etc, etc.)
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The 'second jrr' thing.
But right above your comment it said don't write that again or you'll get banned, and well you did, and got banned. That was expected (and childish if I may say), but you can't tell me you believed you'd get away with it. The thread was full of "JRR2 lulz", "this", "agreed" comments which contributed NOTHING to the discussion when numerous people asked to only post constuctive comments, that's why the "temporary rule" (I don't know how to call it) was established, because it was way out of contol and a real mess.
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But right above your comment it said don't write that again or you'll get banned, and well you did, and got banned.
But saying "don't write this or you'll get banned" is just one warning... And actually in that topic, PN post was even more stupid XD
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That was a rule specifically for the thread, a measure which shouldn't have been needed to be taken but was because of childish/unconstructive comments/behaviour. If it tells you "if you write something like this again your post will get deleted and you'll get banned" then one can assume that there will be no further warning.
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Great post, X-J.
As I've said, the more factual information or news anyone contributes, the worse you and your staff friends treat them.
Anyone, you sure? Even our "staff friends"?
You're right, "anyone" wasn't quite right. More like "the more factual information or news anyone other than PN contributes", the worse they're treated. Like I said, it all goes back to protecting PN's imaginary status as the world's only source of X information.
And I sure hope you're aware of your hypocrisy of calling staff members out on mocking users while doing so yourself. :)
The rather significant difference between myself and the staff members being that they're on staff. I'm a normal user. They, on the other hand, have been "hired" to enforce the rules.
I sure hope you're aware of the ridiculousness of implying that it's ever acceptable for staff members to mock other users or violate their own rules.
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I sure hope you're aware of the ridiculousness of implying that it's ever acceptable for staff members to mock other users or violate their own rules.
Except that I never implied it was acceptable for us. What I'm saying is it's funny that you do it yourself. (yep, not acceptable, for anyone, that includes normal users)
Like I said, it all goes back to protecting PN's imaginary status as the world's only source of X information.
I hate to break it to you but there is no PN fanclub in the mod subforums.