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An important announcement on July 8, LA time

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Offline matsumoto

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Reply #120 on: July 10, 2018, 09:04:27 PM
I think returner's comment brought up some very interesting points and it's great to read from someone who disagrees with most of us. I agree that perhaps we are jumping to conclusions without knowing the whole story. Maybe this as not entirely Yoshiki's idea and maybe part of it is out of his control, even if I have a hard time imagining that scenario.

Still, there's some stuff I can't explain. Why is he silent about this? Why make such a fuss about this announcement and then drop the mic? Like y_tho pointed out on Discord, he probably knows something is not right. Was he fooled into agreeing with this marketing strategy by his moronic staff? Was there a fallout between the bandmembers during the creative process? Did he at some point think it was a good idea but then realised (too late) that he was wrong? In any case, his silence speaks volumes.

Any exposure is good exposure...

This is what I disagree the most with. X Japan is not supposed to be a reckless race for exposure or recognition. Bands are about making music, not selling cars. I think their recent obsession with exposure and converting newcomers is exactly what's wrong with post-reunion X. Do the ends really justify the means? Even if this song was fantastic, amazing enough to elevate X to Elvis' level in the West, would it still have been worth it? IMHO, no ends can justify replacing your vocalist and band co-founder of over 30 years with a dude from another band, leaving out an extremely talented guitarist and bassist and still calling this an 'X Japan' thing. And let's not forget about the part where they market this as a great new thing because Toshi isn't there. What do I know, though? Maybe Toshi is totally alright with this. Maybe he hated the song so much he insisted they find another bloke to sing it. But as a long-time fan, I can't help but feel a sort of second-hand humiliation. They're literally saying 3 out of 5 people in that band are unimportant enough to be replaced or left out. Which goes hand in hand with the treatment the actual (living) guitarists have received since 2008.

I wonder what would happen if Pata teamed up with Heath and Miyavi, made a song and then called it X Japan...



Offline Sander

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Reply #121 on: July 10, 2018, 09:28:43 PM
It's weird, can't say I'm thrilled about this... Then again it's Yoshiki's band... And XClamation and Es Dur no Piano Sen are also "X Japan songs". So I'm takinga "meh" stance on this until I hear more details.

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Offline returner

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Reply #122 on: July 10, 2018, 09:42:51 PM
I think returner's comment brought up some very interesting points and it's great to read from someone who disagrees with most of us. I agree that perhaps we are jumping to conclusions without knowing the whole story. Maybe this as not entirely Yoshiki's idea and maybe part of it is out of his control, even if I have a hard time imagining that scenario.

Still, there's some stuff I can't explain. Why is he silent about this? Why make such a fuss about this announcement and then drop the mic? Like y_tho pointed out on Discord, he probably knows something is not right. Was he fooled into agreeing with this marketing strategy by his moronic staff? Was there a fallout between the bandmembers during the creative process? Did he at some point think it was a good idea but then realised (too late) that he was wrong? In any case, his silence speaks volumes.



I am confused by the fact that neither Sugizo nor Yoshiki have posted about the song on their social media but that to me proves that this is not a vanity project on behalf of Yoshiki. I mentioned it in the chat but I might as well say it here, too, that if the theme song were truly for Yoshiki's ego than why involve Sugizo? If he's the one writing the violin than he could use anyone and keep the theme songs artist registry as Yoshiki feat. Hyde.

To say that the song is Yoshiki flexing his ego is saying that about Sugizo, too, because they're both calling themselves X without the other members, but everyone's only hating on Yoshiki.

We don't know what's going on or why these decisions were made but I do believe that putting X's name on something international will only help with the success of the album.

We should all be patient and also accept that none of us are tiny X flies on X walls.


Edit: X was always, always in a race for exposure, even back in Tokyo as 20-somethings. Yoshiki made Toshi give him all their proceeds from their first ep or tours or whatever (can't remember) and invested it in a magazine add; one of the covers (front or back) if I remember correctly. It was expensive and also not a popular thing to do for a metal band bc it targeted the mainstream.

Then they went and appeared on TV and were the first metal band to do that, too. They were heavily criticized by the underground bc it was seen as selling out, but X was only concerned about the exposure.

That's how we have the X Japan of today. That's how we had the Last Live and hide's solo career. That will never change about X and all the members are used to it (after 30 years I'd assume so, anyway.)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 09:54:38 PM by returner »

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline nb

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Reply #123 on: July 10, 2018, 10:19:44 PM

Yoshki is always X Japan. Whenever we have Yoshiki, then we have X Japan.  ;D

TRUE DAT!

X'~en~Ciel   ;D


positively unsure。


Offline returner

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Reply #124 on: July 10, 2018, 11:03:03 PM

Yoshki is always X Japan. Whenever we have Yoshiki, then we have X Japan.  ;D

TRUE DAT!

X'~en~Ciel   ;D

 ;D ;D ;D

Each group's marketing team is going to be so mad they didn't think of that lol
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 11:05:01 PM by returner »

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline Joker

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Reply #125 on: July 11, 2018, 01:52:36 AM
Yoshki is always X Japan. Whenever we have Yoshiki, then we have X Japan.  ;D



Yoshiki created X. But Yoshiki himself isn't X.



Offline Joker

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Reply #126 on: July 11, 2018, 02:01:45 AM
It's weird, can't say I'm thrilled about this... Then again it's Yoshiki's band... And XClamation and Es Dur no Piano Sen are also "X Japan songs". So I'm takinga "meh" stance on this until I hear more details.


One thing is a song composed by a member. ANother totally diferent is getting part of the band, recording with another totally unrelated guy just because he is famous and calling it X.

Xclamation was composed by hide and Taiji but the whole band worked on it. Es dur no Piano Sen is a Yoshiki solo as Love Replica is a hide solo. But all of them worked together.

And it's still Yoshiki's fault, as he always like to boost his ego and constantly say that EVERYTHING on X is his. He does, he composes, he produces. He is the guy who wanted to put random guests on the new album which will never be released. He is the one who makes empty promises time and time again.

This is certainly the most fucked up idea ever. And we are talking about the guy who make everyone wait for "important announcements" which turned to be Yoshikitty and Don Quijote products.

Is not hard for a musician to be recognized worldwide. He just need to make some fucking music.




Offline pt_93

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Reply #127 on: July 11, 2018, 02:02:53 AM
Yoshki is always X Japan. Whenever we have Yoshiki, then we have X Japan.  ;D



Yoshiki created X. But Yoshiki himself isn't X.

And Toshi did too. Then we can say Toshi is X Japan as he created the band too and he’s the singer. X Japan is a band, not 1 person.

Thank you Joker, I don’t always agree with you but I agree completely with what you just said. I honestly don’t think it’s hard to understand why people are upset about this... and it’s very weird to me that people would compare actual X Japan songs like Xclamation, which is an instrumental to begin with, to this.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 02:06:54 AM by pt_93 »



Offline LEMONedMe

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Reply #128 on: July 11, 2018, 06:58:15 AM
X japan without toshi voice is not X

You can say that, again! No Toshi, no X!

Sometimes our tears blinded the love
We lost out dreams along the way
But I never thought you'd trade your soul to the fates
Never thought you'd leave me alone


Offline LEMONedMe

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Reply #129 on: July 11, 2018, 06:59:44 AM
Wtf no Toshi, Pata, and Heath? If true, Yoshiki lost his mind

Yep! That's more than half the actual band, left out.  Shameful if you ask me.  :'(

Sometimes our tears blinded the love
We lost out dreams along the way
But I never thought you'd trade your soul to the fates
Never thought you'd leave me alone


Offline LEMONedMe

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Reply #130 on: July 11, 2018, 07:37:51 AM
Well I can only think of one thing to say right now, other than my extreme dispeasure of Yoshiki apparently putting himself all over hide's Hurry Go Round.  And that's that this decision is like as though Freddie Mercury was still alive and quite well and Brian May or Roger Taylor decided to do something using another singer such as Lambert, drop Brian as the guitarist and use someone else, too, and maybe one other original member and calling it Queen.  It ain't gonna go.  No go.  If those members were the originals and they wrote music for the band, performed in that band and were well known as part of that band, then suddenly aren't there but someone else is there in their place, then it's not the same band. 

Sometimes our tears blinded the love
We lost out dreams along the way
But I never thought you'd trade your soul to the fates
Never thought you'd leave me alone


Offline Matthias

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Reply #131 on: July 11, 2018, 11:08:10 AM
I also think it is irritating that he hasn't mendioned it on his twitter account.

Not too thrilled about calling it X Japan when only Yoshiki and Sugizo are involved + it being a ballad.



Offline nb

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Reply #132 on: July 11, 2018, 01:59:42 PM
It's interesting.

Sometimes people in this forum are saying "Yoshiki is X!" and in this case he is only a member of X.

Make your minds up!  ;D


But really, there are many songs which are not "using" the complete band like many of the ballads or drain or such. And some ballads were also released as singles with no involvement of Pata or Heath. And to be honest Sugizo, Pata and Heath are equal X members. Yes, Toshi and Y are the oldest X guys but it's not the fault of the "newer" ones (well, Pata is playing there for over 30 years... new... uhmm). So in my opinion the other guys are X too.

And yes, I would like to see a Heath, Pata and Sugizo featuring something with Miyavi or B'z Inaba or someone else and call it X Japan  :) Why not? Because we all are X!  ;D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 02:34:43 PM by nb »


positively unsure。


Offline helenmoon

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Reply #133 on: July 11, 2018, 04:58:07 PM
It's interesting.

Sometimes people in this forum are saying "Yoshiki is X!" and in this case he is only a member of X.

Make your minds up!  ;D


But really, there are many songs which are not "using" the complete band like many of the ballads or drain or such. And some ballads were also released as singles with no involvement of Pata or Heath. And to be honest Sugizo, Pata and Heath are equal X members. Yes, Toshi and Y are the oldest X guys but it's not the fault of the "newer" ones (well, Pata is playing there for over 30 years... new... uhmm). So in my opinion the other guys are X too.

And yes, I would like to see a Heath, Pata and Sugizo featuring something with Miyavi or B'z Inaba or someone else and call it X Japan  :) Why not? Because we all are X!  ;D

fully subscribe...  :)

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Offline axlroseX

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Reply #134 on: July 12, 2018, 03:12:07 AM
I read the episode premiered, has anyone heard the track?



Offline pt_93

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Reply #135 on: July 12, 2018, 03:20:39 AM
I read the episode premiered, has anyone heard the track?

It didn’t have the intro.



Offline axlroseX

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Reply #136 on: July 12, 2018, 03:29:51 AM
Damn



Offline Fluffy

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Reply #137 on: July 12, 2018, 11:30:57 AM
I think the problem is long term X fans have been riding the Yoshiki rollercoaster for a long time and are very attached to the idea of X of the past. Yoshiki gets people’s hopes and expectations up and then inevitably they come crashing down when these things don’t turn out as people have hoped.
I think the reality is that people are always going to be disappointed as X of old doesn’t exist anymore. Things have changed, the band members have changed, been through trauma, illness, depression and many other issues. Sometimes things break people and we just can’t get back to who we used to be no matter how much we try. None of the band members are the same people they were back in their heyday. They have changed, X has changed, relationships with each other have changed, life changes people. It just happens. Humans are flawed with weaknesses. Bands rarely stay together with the same creativity at a high level indefinitely.
The problem is that Yoshiki has painted himself in to a corner in this regard. He promises things and then whatever happens happens (none of us really know what is going on behind the scenes and it is all speculation) and then everyone gets very disappointed because it not what we expected. I honestly think that no matter what happens people are going to be disappointed. Even if the album is released people are going to complain if it doesn’t meet with everyone’s satisfaction. Then there will only be comments related to ‘it took him ten years to produce this’. I think Yoshiki is probably aware that he can’t win.
I’m not unsympathetic to long time fans dashed hopes. It is very hard to let go of things that we are attached to or to realise that people and things are not who or what we wanted of hoped them to be but sometimes if we are unhappy riding the Yoshiki rollercoaster then at some point people need to step off and decide that this ride is not for them or else accept that this is how it is, its who Yoshiki is and its how the band exists in its current kind of fragmented form. Other members have their own projects and bands going on. Is the commitment the same from all members? We only seem such a small slither of celebrities lives.
I think it would be nicer to have a song with Toshi on vocals as to me he is the voice of ‘X Japan’ but we just don’t know what was discussed. This song might be really great whether people class it as ‘X Japan’ or not. It will still be a new song and a creative output made by talented people that will touch peoples hearts and emotions.
There are so many things we can’t assume or know.
Even this  comment - “It’s the first time Yoshiki writes an X Japan song for a voice that is not Toshi’s”. was this a statement actually released by Yoshiki's staff or just some random internet journalist who are infamous for twisting words and making things appear to be one way when actually they are another?

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Offline pt_93

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Reply #138 on: July 12, 2018, 02:18:31 PM
I don’t think this has anythikg to do with high expectations or riding Yoshiki’s rollercoaster or being attached to an idea. We were all very excited to grt a new X Japan song very soon that we were not expecting but turns out, THIS IS NOT X JAPAN, it’s a Yoshiki solo with another singer and he labeled it X Japan. Yoshiki alone is not X Japan, I think Joker and Matsumoto are right about why people are upset and why this is so offensise and wrong, so i’m not going to explain again. Good or bad, this is not X Japan.



Offline nb

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Reply #139 on: July 12, 2018, 03:30:45 PM
This is not a Solo. It has 2 X members in it. Sugizo and Yoshiki.

And as I said, there were ballads only with Toshi and Yoshiki. Again, two members of X. And some these were released as singles under the brand "X JAPAN"

In this case two members of X (Sugizo and Yoshiki) are doing a feature with another musician, Hyde (Hideto lol) and they (the two musicians from X Japan) are releasing it as "X Japan feat Hyde".

What is your problem? It happened in the past. No one cares. Why is this a problem for you now?


Maybe the problem is this:
Could it be that you do not regard the voice as an instrument but as something absolute? In my opinion, Toshi is "just" a musician of X Japan like everyone else. Just as Hide or Pata have their own special way to play and sound their instrument, so does Toshi. Why is it such a problem for someone else to play Toshi's instrument?
Hey, maybe that's the same with the Marylin Manson song on the album! Have you thought about it?
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 03:34:09 PM by nb »


positively unsure。


Offline axlroseX

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Reply #140 on: July 12, 2018, 03:56:28 PM
Lol wtf



Offline returner

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Reply #141 on: July 12, 2018, 04:57:08 PM
Regardless of your opinion on the branding Yoshiki is not the only one in this collab. Sugizo is also calling himself X Japan but no one has a problem with that, only Yoshiki. It's hate bias.

It's perfectly understandable to be disappointed about not getting the rest of the band on such a highly publicized song that will be coming out any day now, but it's not fair to conspiracy theorizing against Yoshiki for it and hating the entire situation.

I agree with Fluffy and NB. I'm happy we're getting a new song and hey, it will most likely be performed by the rest of X at X concerts anyway.

I will say again that I believe this is the best marketing move for X Japan. Even if it's not all the members, the song is being used on an international level. Whether it was Yoshiki or Sugizo's idea is debatable since neither have commented on their involvement with the song, but it is a smart promotional tool for the album they're planning to release bc a lot of people will research the name X Japan.

It might not make the fans happy or even the members happy but it's what's best for the band, and in the long run that IS what's best for the band and thus the fans.

It's not a super huge deal when it really comes down to it... a new song... good promo... it's nothing to attack anyone over.

Also, it's having expectations not be met that causes these kind of hard feelings. I think it's been long enough that anyone here really has to learn to exercise the art of letting go of control. X isnt operating in a typical fashion and we know that so... chill? Idk. I wish I could say something to make you all relax and enjoy what we have bc it is what it is and at least we're going to hear something new. X could have just not re-banded and Toshi could still be in HOH and Yoshiki could still be releasing 1 VUK song every few years and only holding concerts in Tokyo sporadically.

Everyone's never going to be happy but I understand why the decision to label Yoshiki and Sugizo X MIGHT HAVE been made and I'm also excited about the song and X's name being on AOT.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 05:03:04 PM by returner »

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline Kasumi

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Reply #142 on: July 12, 2018, 05:29:07 PM

Yoshki is always X Japan. Whenever we have Yoshiki, then we have X Japan.  ;D

TRUE DAT!

X'~en~Ciel   ;D

Woah be careful if you call it *something*~en~Ciel you have to include at least tetsu or ken or yuki. Hyde is just the singer!!!111 :D

No but seriously why is everyone so angry? The world is not going down tonight and X Japan (or at least some members) are actually releasing stuff. :D You know what? I'm going to buy that single and if I like it I will play it nonstop after the release and noone can stop me. :D :D :D

While I'm away, read this line again...


Offline Matthias

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Reply #143 on: July 12, 2018, 05:32:36 PM
While I am still curious how the song will sound ... to be honest ... the recent news i.e. ballad, no Toshi are a huge let down for me and yes, I am disappointed by the news, I was expecting something else.
Of course, at the end it's my fault for getting my hopes up.

What's starting to worry me more and more is the fact, that if the album will be released in the distant future it may include only songs we've already heard.



Offline returner

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Reply #144 on: July 12, 2018, 05:47:34 PM
While I am still curious how the song will sound ... to be honest ... the recent news i.e. ballad, no Toshi are a huge let down for me and yes, I am disappointed by the news, I was expecting something else.
Of course, at the end it's my fault for getting my hopes up.

What's starting to worry me more and more is the fact, that if the album will be released in the distant future it may include only songs we've already heard.

Itd we'll hear KTS before the album drops even though it's the one I want to hear the most. Rockstar is also debatable. I also wonder whether Yoshiki's still planning on having the short interludes between songs... didn't they range between like, 15/30 seconds up to a minute 30 or something? I think that would be fascinating to hear in a album. It could really alter the mood and abiance of the listening experience. We would definitely never hear those before the album's released.

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline Matthias

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Reply #145 on: July 12, 2018, 05:53:39 PM
True, the interludes we probably wouldn't hear before the album is released, but I don't really consider them as seperate songs/or something I'm looking forward to that much. They may work well when listening the album in its entirety, but as a stand alone song, don't know... + it may take away recording space on the album that could be used for another song. ;)

BTW, band is tracking guitars at the moment, wonder for what song.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlIm44tAitq/?hl=en&taken-by=yoshikiofficial



Offline returner

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Reply #146 on: July 12, 2018, 06:05:44 PM
True, the interludes we probably wouldn't hear before the album is released, but I don't really consider them as seperate songs/or something I'm looking forward to that much. They may work well when listening the album in its entirety, but as a stand alone song, don't know... + it may take away recording space on the album that could be used for another song. ;)

BTW, band is tracking guitars at the moment, wonder for what song.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlIm44tAitq/?hl=en&taken-by=yoshikiofficial

Yay! Pata looks happy  ;D Does anyone know what's in that little box on the table?

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline returner

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Reply #147 on: July 12, 2018, 06:11:56 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BlIpEVnndXX/?hl=en

It's Taiji's birthday today too.

yoshikiofficial: #HappyBirthDay Taiji .
We had some ups & downs, but the time we spent was precious.

We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki


Offline axlroseX

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Reply #148 on: July 12, 2018, 06:41:03 PM
I think Angel may be different on the album. They talked about a solo for it before, maybe it's a more guitar oriented song than we think



Offline Kasumi

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Reply #149 on: July 12, 2018, 06:55:05 PM
Does anyone know what's in that little box on the table?

Looks like guitar pics (Plektrum)
/nb

While I'm away, read this line again...