Author Topic: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki  (Read 5596 times)

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 09:08:31 PM »
Yes, I agree with matsumoto. It could have been anything. Yoshiki not wanting to talk about it can simply mean he doesn't want people to know, that's it. There are busines decisions and personal decisions you don't share with the public and Yoshiki is not a fool. Maybe they just simply hated each other and the time arrived when they could no longer bear each other's presence. You cannot tell your fans that "well, we didn't get along, I hated him, he hated me, so I fired him". :) X is iconic, you don't just turn your fanbase against you with things like this. There are a lot of things artists don't share and don't tell the truth about. Band members also don't always get along, rather tolerate each other for the sake of what they are doing together. I know bands where certain members don't even talk to each other at all apart from necessities. Money is a big ruler, you know? And this is showbusiness, however we want to look at it :) sure, most bands do stuff for the sake of music and because they simply love making music and being on stage. I don't doubt X is also like that. But they also got big and when you get big and have millions of fans to cater to, rules change. You need to take into consideration your fanbase's needs. You cna of course say that you do whatever you want but in reality nobody wants to lose their fanbase. Why do you think X still honors hide at every concert even though 20 years passed since his death? If you see the crowd at concert, every 3rd fan has a hide doll or is dressed as hide. If they stop catering to hide fans, those fans will get angry. And they will boycott you and your sales will go down. This is also a business. Whatever happened between Taiji and Yoshiki/the band, remains between them.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 09:10:13 PM by Teemeah »
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2017, 04:20:28 PM »
I'm gonna go with a mix of salary differences, music direction differences and both Taiji and Yoshiki having bitchy personalities.

Yoshiki doesn't look like the kind of guy who likes being told what to do, and neither does Taiji. Yoshiki has mentioned that he appreciated Hide because Hide was rather wild, but still respected him and let him have the last word. Taiji probably didn't.

I don't know if Hide was the one who asked Yoshiki to fire him, though. They even got matching tattoos at one point. But hey, you can fight like an animal with your BFF, of all people, if they piss you off.

Anyway, it's a shame he's gone. What a great rockstar that guy was.

How Hide with his pink hair is different and cool, and Taiji refusing change his hair and wearing that cowboy stuff is against rules? They did the same thing, being what they are, following their own way, and one ends with three suiciders and 50 000 at his funeral, other - possibly murdered, and nobody knows about it? I don't wanna mentoin this in every topic, but it looks not fair for me. I also don't claim I know everything and I can judge guys for their relationship and decisions back then. But hey, come on, since one of them is liked by Yoshiki, he can stay, and other can go away?

Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2017, 04:29:20 PM »
Teemeah then he should remain in silence for everything. You can't go outside and just say "Hide asked me to fire Taiji" after they both are dead and can't prove or deny it. This is not correct to someone you were friend with, more than business and music. You can't expect say something like this and then fans not burst with questions. If you don't want them to know - you don't speak about it at all. And we all know how fans especially of music bands are becoming fanatics and some of them believe that actually heir idol's life is their own. There always must be a line to separate these things.

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2017, 10:59:39 AM »
Aries, I think it might have been pretty much like that (pffft, what do I know, I don't know those people at all).

If you're a bandleader and you have two key members who fight all the time, who do you kick out? The one you like less, obviously. And don't forget to think business, who has the biggest fanbase? Hide, obviously. You can't kick that one out or you lose 70% of your fanbase.

Whichever the reason was, Yoshiki was quite a diplomat for ditching the question, in any case. It's old news that he fired Taiji. Admitting that he had to choose between him and another bandmember is pretty damn embarassing (hey, Taiji has a fanbase too!). So he just said he didn't want to talk about it. If I was the director, I would have cut out that sequence but they probably thought it would add some mystery to the whole thing, so...

Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2017, 12:19:38 PM »
Eh this is too generally. I don't think Yoshiki didn't liked Taiji, just there is some precious order he want everybody to follow. You can see how they play and joke with each other at old videos. And still Hide left, Yoshiki lost them both, and for what?
I am not judging anybody here, I believe he loved them both and even after 19 years from Hide'death and 6 from Taiji's, band keep performing songs in their memory. But what good came from this?

When I read about Taiji and Toshi recording Voiceless screaming, it was obvious that Toshi was under Yoshiki's influence. Is there another band where vocalist is told how to sing his songs? I love X but I cannot accept this for normal thing. Band is a family, you open your soul to these people, miss holidays with your actual family to work with them, forget about personal life and instead of this stay from sunrise to late evening recording music - your music. Every single person put so much in it, I don't know if I would be able to forgive such thing if I was in his place.
And I wonder was that the reason Hide aparted? Alone he exposed his tallent much better than being with X, but I still cannot believe he was the reason for Taiji's departure. Hide was crazy unpredictable guy, not double faced. At least that's what I know about him, you can never be sure 100%.

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 07:55:39 PM »
Hide never left the band, if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty sure he would have left it if he had lived, though. Towards the end he didn't fit at all. It's weird to look at him in the Last Live. His new style didn't fit with the band's new style, his crazy guitar was being seriously underused with the new, mostly ballad playlist, whatnot.

I have no idea if he played a part in Taiji's departure. If there were two guys in that band to pick trouble, that would have been those two, presumably with each other. Don't think Hide was double-faced either. A freak, but not really mean. Telling your boss you can no longer work with a specific co-worker is not a mean thing to do, though.

Veredict: Taiji stole somebody's hairspray and they got pissed. A shame. I really liked the dude.

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2017, 07:50:31 AM »
Hide didn't leave the band... Hide DIED. He was the one person trying to convince Toshi to stay, he tried to talk him out of leaving for hours before he gave up. X disbanded and Hide continued his solo career in full force. He was also in talks with Yoshiki about recruiting a new singer, they were checking out demos of singers. X re-forming with a new singer was precisely cut in half by his death.

And please don't forget we are talking about Japanese dudes here in the 1990s. As much as they were rebels against society, they are also very inherently Japanese. We are trying to view them through our own cultural glasses. Talking about problems is not a thing in Japanese culture, especially personal problems and expressing emotions towards others. (Stage affections, behaviour in front of cameras are a different thing, it's called FAN SERVICE, Asian bands mastered this notion). Just remember how Toshi and Yoshiki talked about Toshi's brainwashing in front of the documentary crew's camera for the FIRST TIME. They haven't talked about it at all among themselves. I doubt they talk about any personal issues, apart from hellos and how are yours and have you eatens. It's not a Japanese thing. Band is family, yeah, for all the marketing purposes. They were so much a family that Toshi, a CHILDHOOD FRIEND didn't know that Yoshiki's father committed suicide until much much later, he was singing his lyrics without knowing what they actually meant! He said this himself, with his own mouth in the documentary. What kind of family behaviour do you expect of people who don't talk at all, apart from music and trivial jokes and superficial conversation of cars and weather and food?

And Yoshiki is boss when it comes to X music, whether you like it or not, he will tell you how to sing and what to play. It's a no brainer why X had so many lineup changes in the early years. It's a wonder Taiji did dtay in the band for so long with his personality being equally stubborn. Yoshiki was more lenient with hide because he liked him and because he really wanted him to join. He still didn't get to write a lot of songs for X, right? Pata's personality is very different, he does what he is told to do, silently. Heath is also like that in a way.Hide, I guess, simply liked working with Yoshiki, for some odd reason, they understood each other musically.

Oh yeah and did you know Yoshiki only met Toshi's wife once? What kind of friendship is that, where your best friend is basically a stranger to the woman you love? Let's get the pink glasses off, please. These people come from an entirely different cultural background and their thought process is very different to Western thinking.
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2017, 09:51:50 AM »
You're very right, Teemeah. Actually, it was a pleasure to read your input. I tend to see things through the eyes of a westerner, which I am. We openly discuss our problems, everybody knows who you're dating and if you head hurts and if your cat ate your pizza last night. But I feel like it's a very westerner thing to be this outspoken about whatever bothers you.

Your analysis is very correct. I was pretty shocked to learn that Toshi didn't learn of Yoshiki's father's suicide for years. I mean, he mentions it every two seconds these days. Because he's become a westerner of sorts, I believe, maybe it wasn't the case back in the day. It's incredibly weird that the whole brainwashing thing happened in the first place and that all the others could do was gaze in horror, shrug and walk away. I agree with you that the Japanese are not exactly keen on saying hey-here's-what's-bothering-me-lately, even in front of lifelong friends. That's a shame. They create strange coping mechanisms.

Off-topic, but another thing I noticed that people didn't seem to take seriously was Hide's alcoholism. I was digging through old translated interviews a few years ago and I was shocked at what I read. The guy mentioned drinking himself unconscious every night in every single interview. Plus, breaking bones and getting seriously sick after his drunken exploits. Interviewers appearently thought it was funny and lead him on. Some interviews consisted of the interviewer specifically asking him about his drinking habits and giving him more alcohol. In other interviews he mentions having mental and body image issues. I really liked the dude, but no wonder he's dead. I'd actually be surprised if he was alive. That's a society that makes it seem okay that you're a wreck, it's fine, it's part of your charm, blah blah. Weird.


Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2017, 12:28:41 PM »
Hide never left the band, if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty sure he would have left it if he had lived, though. Towards the end he didn't fit at all. It's weird to look at him in the Last Live. His new style didn't fit with the band's new style, his crazy guitar was being seriously underused with the new, mostly ballad playlist, whatnot.

I have no idea if he played a part in Taiji's departure. If there were two guys in that band to pick trouble, that would have been those two, presumably with each other. Don't think Hide was double-faced either. A freak, but not really mean. Telling your boss you can no longer work with a specific co-worker is not a mean thing to do, though.

Veredict: Taiji stole somebody's hairspray and they got pissed. A shame. I really liked the dude.
That's the whole point, band must have a leader, not a boss. Yoshiki being bossy made Taiji act idiotic - steal spray, break things, get drunk, oppose him... I believe that wasn't a good combination for this band - one selfish and authoritative, one colorful and crazy, one with so strong feeling for truth and justice, one passive all the time and one who do his job as "the boss" says. This isn't a band, this is a circus - Yoshiki says "jump" and everybody jump. And let me repeat again - I don't judge the guy, he is amazing talent and so deep personality, just this is not the right way to treat people who work with you to make your dreams reality, because that's their dream too.
You don't know what you've got untill it's gone. I cannot imagine to compare new X with the old, original one.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 12:33:11 PM by Aries »

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2017, 01:59:52 PM »
You're very right, Teemeah. Actually, it was a pleasure to read your input. I tend to see things through the eyes of a westerner, which I am. We openly discuss our problems, everybody knows who you're dating and if you head hurts and if your cat ate your pizza last night. But I feel like it's a very westerner thing to be this outspoken about whatever bothers you.

Your analysis is very correct. I was pretty shocked to learn that Toshi didn't learn of Yoshiki's father's suicide for years. I mean, he mentions it every two seconds these days. Because he's become a westerner of sorts, I believe, maybe it wasn't the case back in the day. It's incredibly weird that the whole brainwashing thing happened in the first place and that all the others could do was gaze in horror, shrug and walk away. I agree with you that the Japanese are not exactly keen on saying hey-here's-what's-bothering-me-lately, even in front of lifelong friends. That's a shame. They create strange coping mechanisms.

Off-topic, but another thing I noticed that people didn't seem to take seriously was Hide's alcoholism. I was digging through old translated interviews a few years ago and I was shocked at what I read. The guy mentioned drinking himself unconscious every night in every single interview. Plus, breaking bones and getting seriously sick after his drunken exploits. Interviewers appearently thought it was funny and lead him on. Some interviews consisted of the interviewer specifically asking him about his drinking habits and giving him more alcohol. In other interviews he mentions having mental and body image issues. I really liked the dude, but no wonder he's dead. I'd actually be surprised if he was alive. That's a society that makes it seem okay that you're a wreck, it's fine, it's part of your charm, blah blah. Weird.

Yes, I think Sugizo mentions in the docu that hide was reckless when he was drunk  - and he was often drunk. And friends don't care because that is what they learnt throughout their life from Japanese society: not to mess with other people's personal business. They may be worried about their friends inside, but they don't voice their worries! They were not stopping Pata from becoming an alcoholic, either.... even after losing hide in that way, through an accident due to alcohol abuse, they were still watching Pata get up and personal with Johhny Walker and we fans make jokes about it, when it is really not funny in reality and we could have lost this guy too early last year...

Hide did seem to have a lot mental issues, but that is like 90% of rock musicians, you need to be in a certain mental state to make this kind of music. Or to be an artist, at all. he did have body image issues, he mentioned this several times, that he was fat (or perceived himself as such) and alcohol is often taken as quick comfort for such issues... And the worst is that you are surrounded with people who have similar mental issues. Yoshiki is not 100% sane either, sunk into his own world of parental suicide and guilt and trying to cope for the rest of his life. Toshi has his own insecurities, which were made worse by Yoshiki pushing him too hard to achieve perfect sound and sing in English. Pata was probablz already an alcoholic in the late 1990s, Taiji obviously went downhill, becoming homeless and several of his teeth knocked out - he wasn't a 100% mentally stable, either.... Sugizo? Back then he was even worse than hide, with his alcoholism (and god knows what else) and his childhood scars of an abusive father. If 99% of your friends are equally emotionally and mentally disturbed, it is difficult to get out of your own problems unscathed. Or for them to recognise that there is something terribly wrong with you.
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2017, 02:22:29 PM »

That's the whole point, band must have a leader, not a boss. Yoshiki being bossy made Taiji act idiotic - steal spray, break things, get drunk, oppose him... I believe that wasn't a good combination for this band - one selfish and authoritative, one colorful and crazy, one with so strong feeling for truth and justice, one passive all the time and one who do his job as "the boss" says. This isn't a band, this is a circus - Yoshiki says "jump" and everybody jump. And let me repeat again - I don't judge the guy, he is amazing talent and so deep personality, just this is not the right way to treat people who work with you to make your dreams reality, because that's their dream too.
You don't know what you've got untill it's gone. I cannot imagine to compare new X with the old, original one.

Yoshiki has always been a boss and not a leader. This is not a new thing, this has been ever since he started making music, which more than FORTY years now. If you haven't accepted this since you became an X fan, I don't know what to say... :) He is unlikely to change. And yes it is a circus. Did you see at the last acoustic concert how Yoshiki went up to each member and told them what to shout into the microphone? He loves being the orchestrator, but this is HIM. This has always been him, and if he weren't this twisted, insane guy, we would have had no X to begin with. I think it is time that we start dropping the "but why Yoshiki doesn't let others do stuff" topic :) It's not anything new. yoshiki has been like that since age 10.
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2017, 03:00:59 PM »
I never said its from yesterday, I said I don't support such kind of beaviour. History proved it - everybody are expandable.
Just look at the result - Taiji, the Kamen rider ended in a jail for a crime he didn't do, with no friends, family or anything familiar around him,
voiceless and alone. Hide died drunk and in an absurd accident, alone. Yoshiki is about to die if he didn't calm down and keep pressure himself like this. All of these things are signs, but nobody seems to see them or at least care a little bit. As the legend Blackie Lawless said: Look what fame has done to me. Enough is enough, life give everybody a chance, more people waste it, trying to get everything, to become immortal. After all, life reminds all of us nothing last forever.

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2017, 03:31:55 PM »
It's quite interesting, though. Personally, I find Yoshiki quite interesting. In a case study sort of way. I worked as a therapist and studied psychology for a while. This is the kind of personality that I liked to study. I can't quite put my finger on whether the guy is mental or if he does it for show. My guess is both. He's mental but while most mentally ill people hide it, Yoshiki learned how to flaunt the romantic parts of it to up his charm. He too has mentioned in the documentary an in at least one interview that he goes through entire weeks without sleeping, then binge drinks and sleeps 10 hours straight, then starts again. In the West, this kind of allegation would be a cause for serious concern, yet he said it in publicly as if it was perfectly normal. In his head, it is his own business and his fans probably think it's pretty cool that somebody is able to live like that. I find the parental suicide thing interesting as well. His reaction to the whole ordeal doesn't really fit the pattern. His mention of being angry all the time and smashing things ans being suicidal is textbook. But then he seems to deviate from the path. Children who have lost their father at a young age tend to be alienated and numb, they don't usually start superbands nor do they compose genious music. A texbook case is a person who shows no particular feeling about a parent who decided to quit their parental responsibilities. Very few people actually talk about it. He seems to have taken the opposite path. His mention of the "suicide scene" in the doc is also very vivid, an unusual thing. I would say he has a severe chronic case of PSTD, maybe not only due to his father's death but to something that was happening beforehand as well, seeing his father down due to financial issues, parents arguing, being ignored maybe? If that's the case, that would explain the bossy behaviour pretty well. The fatherless individual tends to assume the fatherly role later in life and believe he/she is the only one able to lead the 'family'.

As for Hide, very little is known about him, but what is known is a huge red flag. There's no previous life event (known publicly) that would explain such a dependance on alcohol (he mentions drinking heavily and having major stomach issues due to that in interviews in the late 80s, when he wasn't even famous, so you can't blame it all on fame.) Since I'm playing therapist, I would say he had some kind of eating disorder (based on his own interviews and his mother's). Bulimia, most likely, since bulimics tend to adopt the binge eating reflex when it comes to alcohol and drugs as well. There's no evidence for this whatsoever, but I think he might have considered switching genders as well, at some point in his life. Except society in Japan back in day wasn't what it is today and assuming you're transgender would have been a huge deal. Again, not that he mentioned this. But I had to deal with transgender patients in the past and I think some patterns apply: extreme concern about body image, refusal to show skin, body image issues, drugs and alcohol, wearing feminine clothes that have previously been worn by a woman (Hide mentioned that his stage clothes were mostly his grandmother's), etc.

Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2017, 05:04:15 PM »
My respect, but you cannot expect everybody to act the same. Don't judge for everybody by some books, human mind is much more deeper. Yoshiki hides much more than he express.
There's no need of explanation, every single person have his own tragedy, if it was so easy to cure mind trauma everyone should walk with a book and be a master of mind.
X is not the only, but maybe the band with the most tragedy in it's existing. Yoshiki is killing himself, and I am actually sick and tired of these crying emoticons under every publication on his profile, but if he doesn't stop I should have to cover some painting on the wall to paint his face next to Taiji and Hide.

And you are wrong about one thing - being numb isn't a diagnose, it's a condition which is not permanent, it's temporary. Human brain is made to avoid some painful moments from our life, but not for long. When that person realise what happened there are two possibilities - he becomes violent and looking for every possible subject that can be similar to the one who caused him pain, and hurt him. Second is to become self destructive and turn that hate/pain inward. Human mind and body aren't incorruptible, we know enough examples for such bands, destroyed from the inside. Last one is Chester Bennington. Let me say it like this - I am tired lighting candles for people I care about or at least I like, and who gave my life some purpose.

Let's go at the Yoshiki topic, we are flooding here.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 05:07:24 PM by Aries »

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2017, 09:05:12 PM »
It's quite interesting, though. Personally, I find Yoshiki quite interesting. In a case study sort of way. I worked as a therapist and studied psychology for a while. This is the kind of personality that I liked to study. I can't quite put my finger on whether the guy is mental or if he does it for show. My guess is both. He's mental but while most mentally ill people hide it, Yoshiki learned how to flaunt the romantic parts of it to up his charm. He too has mentioned in the documentary an in at least one interview that he goes through entire weeks without sleeping, then binge drinks and sleeps 10 hours straight, then starts again. In the West, this kind of allegation would be a cause for serious concern, yet he said it in publicly as if it was perfectly normal. In his head, it is his own business and his fans probably think it's pretty cool that somebody is able to live like that. I find the parental suicide thing interesting as well. His reaction to the whole ordeal doesn't really fit the pattern. His mention of being angry all the time and smashing things ans being suicidal is textbook. But then he seems to deviate from the path. Children who have lost their father at a young age tend to be alienated and numb, they don't usually start superbands nor do they compose genious music. A texbook case is a person who shows no particular feeling about a parent who decided to quit their parental responsibilities. Very few people actually talk about it. He seems to have taken the opposite path. His mention of the "suicide scene" in the doc is also very vivid, an unusual thing. I would say he has a severe chronic case of PSTD, maybe not only due to his father's death but to something that was happening beforehand as well, seeing his father down due to financial issues, parents arguing, being ignored maybe? If that's the case, that would explain the bossy behaviour pretty well. The fatherless individual tends to assume the fatherly role later in life and believe he/she is the only one able to lead the 'family'.

As for Hide, very little is known about him, but what is known is a huge red flag. There's no previous life event (known publicly) that would explain such a dependance on alcohol (he mentions drinking heavily and having major stomach issues due to that in interviews in the late 80s, when he wasn't even famous, so you can't blame it all on fame.) Since I'm playing therapist, I would say he had some kind of eating disorder (based on his own interviews and his mother's). Bulimia, most likely, since bulimics tend to adopt the binge eating reflex when it comes to alcohol and drugs as well. There's no evidence for this whatsoever, but I think he might have considered switching genders as well, at some point in his life. Except society in Japan back in day wasn't what it is today and assuming you're transgender would have been a huge deal. Again, not that he mentioned this. But I had to deal with transgender patients in the past and I think some patterns apply: extreme concern about body image, refusal to show skin, body image issues, drugs and alcohol, wearing feminine clothes that have previously been worn by a woman (Hide mentioned that his stage clothes were mostly his grandmother's), etc.

It's very interesting, I always wondered what a psychologist would say about Yoshiki. He IS a tremendous case study. Of course you cannot really analyze anyone wihtout talking to them, and for Yoshiki, anything he does in front of cameras is part of his show, whether funded by real emotions or played up. Different people react to a missing parent differently. Some people are more sensitive and they become artists or turn to art in some way. There are plenty of such examples in the world. And I also think that what makes X so attractive to those who like them is because all of us fans suffered something similar in our lives.Whether it is loss of a family member or some kind of other shock. X fans are just as broken, and Yoshiki's music resonates with us. Of course I cannot speak for everyone, this is just my opinion. I lost a father too, not to death, but to severe alcoholism, I still refuse to talk to him. I don't think I'm numb and I am pretty open to talking about it, too. :) I did turn to writing, though, a form of art. :)
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2017, 09:29:21 AM »
I'm sorry for your dad, Teemeah. Agree with you.

xjapanboi

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2017, 10:21:47 AM »
Hide never left the band, if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty sure he would have left it if he had lived, though. Towards the end he didn't fit at all. It's weird to look at him in the Last Live. His new style didn't fit with the band's new style, his crazy guitar was being seriously underused with the new, mostly ballad playlist, whatnot.

I have no idea if he played a part in Taiji's departure. If there were two guys in that band to pick trouble, that would have been those two, presumably with each other. Don't think Hide was double-faced either. A freak, but not really mean. Telling your boss you can no longer work with a specific co-worker is not a mean thing to do, though.

Veredict: Taiji stole somebody's hairspray and they got pissed. A shame. I really liked the dude.

have you even watched the " We Are X" documentary?  Yoshiki clearly said he and Hide had the intention in finding a new vocalist for X-Japan. so how could you say he had lost his love and passion for X-Japan? the old version says after Toshi confirm to Yoshiki that he would leave X-Japan then Yoshiki and Hide attempted to find a replacement. but in the end they cannot find one that fits for their music style as all the songs were written and designed for Toshi unique voice. so they ended up disbanding instead. but then in the documentary. he says that they were finding a new vocalist after the disbandment.but either way, it goes to prove Hide always wanted to continue X-Japan.

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2017, 10:44:47 AM »
Sure I have. I have seen it over 5 times. I'm very familiar with their story. I know the official version is that Yoshiki and Hide were super pumped about finding a new vocalist and reuniting in 2000 and yada yada. That's not the issue. It's a matter of personal feeling. I feel that it wouldn't have worked anyway and that Hide and Yoshiki would have ended up going separate ways, no matter what. Yoshiki was going more and more classical, fancying ballads and dressing pretty much like a normie. Hide was going weirder by the day and achieving more and more success in his solo career. Note that Hide wasn't born a vocalist. He started working on his vocals while still in X, in order to pursue his solo career. At first, he wouldn't sing at all. Towards the end, he was the vocalist for all of his bands. Marilyn Manson wanted to tour with him. He was spending most of his time in America. Had he lived and learned some English (note that he didn't speak it at all), his solo career would have explosed and he would probably have achieved worldwide success. I don't think he could manage both.

xjapanboi

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2017, 11:04:12 AM »
Sure I have. I have seen it over 5 times. I'm very familiar with their story. I know the official version is that Yoshiki and Hide were super pumped about finding a new vocalist and reuniting in 2000 and yada yada. That's not the issue. It's a matter of personal feeling. I feel that it wouldn't have worked anyway and that Hide and Yoshiki would have ended up going separate ways, no matter what. Yoshiki was going more and more classical, fancying ballads and dressing pretty much like a normie. Hide was going weirder by the day and achieving more and more success in his solo career. Note that Hide wasn't born a vocalist. He started working on his vocals while still in X, in order to pursue his solo career. At first, he wouldn't sing at all. Towards the end, he was the vocalist for all of his bands. Marilyn Manson wanted to tour with him. He was spending most of his time in America. Had he lived and learned some English (note that he didn't speak it at all), his solo career would have explosed and he would probably have achieved worldwide success. I don't think he could manage both.

i kinda agree, I think even with a new lineup. they would not achieve any thing super outstanding in music. they would be good for reunion tours playing their old classics. at that time,Yoshiki,didnt seem very productive either. but on the other hand, Hide was super productive . he made so many super hits.  people loved his style. he was the only member that insist on keeping the " Visual Kei" style. with very loud fashion statement. at that time, Visual Kei was kinda out of date.trend at that time was band members dressing in dark suit and minimalist  style clothes.  his late style  looked little resemble  David Bowie life on mars style. to me, he looked very avant-garde.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 11:10:07 AM by xjapanboi »

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2017, 02:56:23 PM »
Hide became super popular after he died. His death elevated him into iconic status. His million selling album went million posthumously. Had he lived, he would have probably faded away after a couple of years with the rest of X, and the rest of older visual kei bands. Visual kei was going out of date, and rock music was increasingly pushed back by idol pop. I was checking the sales numbers year by year and for visual kei bands it was going downhill in the early 2000s. I also doubt hide would have achieved worlwide fame in solo. Americans are pretty narrow minded, and no matter how well he would learn English (it's increasingly difficult to learn a language properly the older you get, look at Yoshiki, 20 years in the US and his English is still mediocre at best), Americans would never let a slanted eyed Asian conquer their charts.
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2017, 02:20:20 AM »

have you even watched the " We Are X" documentary?  Yoshiki clearly said he and Hide had the intention in finding a new vocalist for X-Japan. so how could you say he had lost his love and passion for X-Japan? the old version says after Toshi confirm to Yoshiki that he would leave X-Japan then Yoshiki and Hide attempted to find a replacement. but in the end they cannot find one that fits for their music style as all the songs were written and designed for Toshi unique voice. so they ended up disbanding instead. but then in the documentary. he says that they were finding a new vocalist after the disbandment.but either way, it goes to prove Hide always wanted to continue X-Japan.
Ok... I am a little bit confused. I didn't watched the film but I will as soon as I can. Negative impression I have about Yoshiki is just growing up no matter I am trying to like him. So he fired Taiji. He wanted to replace Toshi. The fact he is talking about his dead band members with no shame, making a scandal from something nobody prove but him. And I heard, I don't claim it's true, I don't even know who that one was... that he fired a guitarist to get another one because he was asked, then he tried to appology but the old guitarist didn't wanted to come back. Sorry for the sloppy explanation, I really didn't get that serious when I read it.

About Hide... Well he was something never seen before, but I don't think he would get out of date if he lived. World is changing, people too. After all, he outrun his own time.
For americans - I agree. "They love you when you on the cover, when you're not they love another."

What I am supposed to say here? Support X as a band, or X as a Yoshiki project? Support Hide who was ultimate tallent no matter if people said it, or it was Yoshiki did it himself, that he was one of the reasons Taiji was fired? Or support Taiji because he was one of the best people in showbusiness I've  ever seen, fame didn't corrupted him, didn't stole his soul, it doesn't changed him at all!
I just think it's not enough music and too much drama in this band. We all feel sorry for Yohiki and his condition, but he is trying to make another sensation from his illness. Don't let your pain and tragedy turn you into something you are not - we all have one, right? We all have our personal drama and something hidden in the depth of our mind that ruined so many great moments and new opportunities in our life. Strong people just swallow it, stand up, swear and keep going, silently. I have to agree with Taiji here - you love him, hate him, adore him and at the same moment curse him, Yoshiki is something so complex that can't be explained with a few words. But after all, his music does. And the way he treat his mates.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 02:28:28 AM by Aries »

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2017, 08:39:08 AM »
Everyone is different, we are all different. You cannot pull Taiji's mold on Yoshiki. Everyone deals with their pain and losses in a different way. (Pata drinks himself into alcoholism, Toshi allowed himself to be brainwashed because he couldn't deal with his own problems alone, hide was just as much an alcoholic as Pata, with body image issues, and I'm pretty sure Taiji wasn't an angel, either.)

Yoshiki chose to express his own pain in his music and on social media. He was not a very talkative person about his own life back in those days. Even his birthdate was long just known as X, along with his family name being written as X, too. I believe that Yoshiki is not only a very complex personality but he is seriously broken mentally. And that, my friend, is not a joke. He craves to be loved, that's why he posts about his pain and surgery and whatnot on Instagram and indulges in reading those hello-kitty-nurse-fans expressing their love and admiration.

I think he is a pretty lonely man, who has nothing else left just music and his fans. That's probably why he has all those milion sideprojects besides X, he HAS to work, he has to be in motion all the time, otherwise he would probably kill himself, being left alone. If you think about it, it is a pretty sad thing, to live a life like this. And with his personality, pride and being a Japanese male, he will not seek professional help.

X's music was born of the same method, that he chose to express his inner turmoil in music. Had he ever been a normal person, we would not have X Japan now. So loathing him for his personality basically means you trash the one thing that made X Japan what it is. The one thing that produced those songs you listen to. "Strong people just swallow it, stand up, swear and keep going, silently", yeah, had Yoshiki been strong enough to swallow his problems and just keep going silently, you wouldn't have these songs. NONE OF THEM would exist. You cannot separate a person's creative mind from his emotions and personality. If he were able to deal with his problems in other ways, there would be no need for him to make music.

And just to put things in perspective: Taiji wasn't able to deal with his own problems alone, either. Neither was hide able to subdue his alcholoism. And Pata needed a life-threating medical condition to cut back on alcohol, too. Toshi needed a serious kick in the butt to wake up. But Yoshiki's ways of dealing with his own problems are intertwined with his abilities to make music. Take away his problems, and there will be no music.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 08:46:44 AM by Teemeah »
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2017, 09:22:12 AM »
Guys, it's pretty difficult to analyse the personality of someone you only know through their music and social media presence, bit I think Teemeah just nailed it. Yoshiki changed a lot when he left Japan. He seems to have attempted to pull out the "rich celeb rockstar surrounded by babes" but kind of failed at it. He became a lot more outspoken about his feelings and life in general, though. Before Hide's death, he didn't talk of his father's death nor of his physical pain nor of being fucked up or anything. He made music and cross-dressed and that was it. Fans idolized these guys but knew nothing about them. Hide was the only one who seemed to cross the threshold between the band's private life and the fans through his blog, meeting sick fans, giving (mostly drunken) interviews, filming his recording routine in LA with his solo projects...

I agree that he's a very lonely guy. Fame does that to you. He might have friends, but it might not be easy to have true friends when you have his money and his status. The guy himself probably chooses his friends based on what they can bring him. When you're Yoshiki, you don't just go out for drinks with the guy you met at the bus station because he happened to be friendly and whatnot, there's a lot of unspoken rules about who you can hang out with when you reach a certain level. Same goes for romantic relationships. You can't just let things happen naturally with someone you met at a bar and it's probably really weird to go out with a fan (think of all you represent to that person and the burden that is trying not to disapoint them). Yup, life is glam and comfortable when you're a celeb, but your social life becomes a very unnnatural thing.

That being said, I don't think Yoshiki is a bad guy. I think he's a very intelligent and ambitious guy and sort of a citizen of the world trapped in the body/mindset of a Japanese. He wanted to do more with X than even his own bandmembers wanted themselves, aimed way too high, probably hurt a lot of people in the process - yup, Toshi not handling all the "let's be a world band" pressure, Taiji disagreeing with whatever he disagreed with, the other guys turning to alcohol, a constant hiring and firing of managers and agents, you name it. He seems to live with the guilt of all the bad things that ever happened around him - well, it's nobody's fault but living around a guy like Yoshiki is probably not so nice for your mental health.

As for his perception of the whole thing (eugh, talking like a therapist again), when this happens, you place yourself in the center of it all: had he not been born or had he been born different, his father would have dealt with less problems and would have lived. Had he not dragged the introverted and calm Toshi into his rockstar dreams, he wouldn't have ended up fucked up and joining a cult. Had he not met Hide and insisted he join the band, Hide would today be a happy and slightly insane middle-aged hairdresser in his little town. Had he not done whatever made Taiji mad, he wouldn't have suffered the shock of being fired and not finding success with his later projects that sent him into a downward spiral when he started to age. On the brighter side, a kazillion people out there seem to understand him and like him a lot. That creates confusion. You cannot understand why, yet you crave that blind acceptance, so you do everything you can to please them.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 09:25:58 AM by matsumoto »

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2017, 12:12:43 PM »
Absolutely agree. Yoshiki doesn't seem like someone who would intentionally hurt anyone around him and then laugh about it. He is fucked up. As fucked up as anyone with his kind of creative abilities AND mental issues can be. And we are all really different in handling stress and loss. Some people get up and fight silently, others go literally crazy and end up in a lunatic asylum, others kill themselves to escape their issues. Yoshiki put his frustration into his artistic life. But he is a narcisstic personality, he values "me" more than anything else. Everything, including his friends come after satisfying the needs of "me".

I agree that he aimed too high. He really wanted X to succeed overseas and probably pushed everyone around him like crazy. Toshi was unable to handle the pressure and mentally collapsed enough for that cult to be able to turn off the emergency whistle in his head and accept their "helping hand" blindly. It took them YEARS to change him from inside out - and all the while Yoshiki (or the other members for that matter) didn't even notice a thing. Because they were not talking.

If you listen to interviews with people around Yoshiki, none of them have bad opinions about him. Even those sound engineers and other staff that left long ago because they also could not handle the pressure for long, they admire his abilities and the only negative thing they mention is that he is a fussy boss, and incredibly demanding of the people he works with. Because he knows what he wants to achieve and won't settle for anything less. But all describe him as an otherwise nice guy. And all of them are blown away by his creative mind.
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

matsumoto

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2017, 01:23:55 PM »
Pretty much this. The creative genius is hard to define and hard to tame, but usually selfless. I don't think Yoshiki puts the "me" before others, I think he is very well aware of his own talent and abilities, but equally aware of how hard it is to be the captain of such a huge ship. I think the Japanese are probably pretty difficult to work with when you aim high, as well. The genius sometimes creates something so much bigger and heavier then themselves they're completely unprepared to control it. Either you drop it and shy away or you put all of your energy into that task, you become a makeshift captain. Truth be told and like it or not, if Yoshiki chose to be modest and adopt a Pata-ish plan of action, we wouldn't be discussing X here - because we would never have heard of X in the West.

returner

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2017, 04:30:08 PM »
I really liked reading these musings. I think you guys all hit the nail on the head and it even had me look at a few things differently. Without Yoshiki being who he is there would be no music for X Japan to create.
We are not trying to keep the legacy—we are trying to move forward, so our sound is going to change. I’m ready to be criticized, for example by fans saying "you should rather be this style." I’m ready for it, I’m okay with any concept of criticism-Yoshiki

Teemeah

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2017, 06:19:12 PM »
Truth be told and like it or not, if Yoshiki chose to be modest and adopt a Pata-ish plan of action, we wouldn't be discussing X here - because we would never have heard of X in the West.

and X at all, had Yoshiki not have the ambition..... they would have probably ended up playing in small bars to 20 to 50 people on weekends while doing regular jobs on the side. And Yoshiki would probably already be dead, because repetitive day jobs are really not a thing for him. He is alive because X made it, and he can let his creative juices flow without having to worry about how to pay bills or get food. The others pretty much had regular jobs and would have been able to live like that, even hide. We know Pata used to work in a video shop, Heath did heavy labor at the railways, hide was a hairdresser. Toshi could have easily gone to get a PE teacher degree with his affinity to sports. But Yoshiki, he would have ended up back at his mother's house, and after a while he would have ended his life, not being able to let all that pain out.
X-ed pretty hard on first listen. My first Japanese band and second Japanese music love after Miyavi.  My Interview with Yoshiki

Aries

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2017, 02:18:54 PM »
Everyone is different, we are all different. You cannot pull Taiji's mold on Yoshiki. Everyone deals with their pain and losses in a different way. (Pata drinks himself into alcoholism, Toshi allowed himself to be brainwashed because he couldn't deal with his own problems alone, hide was just as much an alcoholic as Pata, with body image issues, and I'm pretty sure Taiji wasn't an angel, either.)

Yoshiki chose to express his own pain in his music and on social media. He was not a very talkative person about his own life back in those days. Even his birthdate was long just known as X, along with his family name being written as X, too. I believe that Yoshiki is not only a very complex personality but he is seriously broken mentally. And that, my friend, is not a joke. He craves to be loved, that's why he posts about his pain and surgery and whatnot on Instagram and indulges in reading those hello-kitty-nurse-fans expressing their love and admiration.

I think he is a pretty lonely man, who has nothing else left just music and his fans. That's probably why he has all those milion sideprojects besides X, he HAS to work, he has to be in motion all the time, otherwise he would probably kill himself, being left alone. If you think about it, it is a pretty sad thing, to live a life like this. And with his personality, pride and being a Japanese male, he will not seek professional help.

X's music was born of the same method, that he chose to express his inner turmoil in music. Had he ever been a normal person, we would not have X Japan now. So loathing him for his personality basically means you trash the one thing that made X Japan what it is. The one thing that produced those songs you listen to. "Strong people just swallow it, stand up, swear and keep going, silently", yeah, had Yoshiki been strong enough to swallow his problems and just keep going silently, you wouldn't have these songs. NONE OF THEM would exist. You cannot separate a person's creative mind from his emotions and personality. If he were able to deal with his problems in other ways, there would be no need for him to make music.

And just to put things in perspective: Taiji wasn't able to deal with his own problems alone, either. Neither was hide able to subdue his alcholoism. And Pata needed a life-threating medical condition to cut back on alcohol, too. Toshi needed a serious kick in the butt to wake up. But Yoshiki's ways of dealing with his own problems are intertwined with his abilities to make music. Take away his problems, and there will be no music.

It's enough to listen their music to see how hard the past of everyone of them was. As one of my teachers used to say - art can't lie. You can refuse to say it, but your art speaks clear enough. And I never said anyone of them was an angel and Yoshiki wasn't fair, perhaps he was, perhaps Taiji crossed the line, not once or twise. But he is the arbitter in a band of many people, where they must be equal. Yoshiki may be alone in life, I don't even know about his personal life and it's not my business to dig, but seeing the entire world respond to your pain, joy, to repeat lyrics you wrote, inspired by your own misery and those people say they feel the same - I think it's more than being friend with someone or fall in love.

And I think I don't need to point out that many of these people are ready to die for him, for the band. If Yoshiki ask they will bleed for him, donate organs for him, even kill for him. Yes, some people are broken, but it's your choise to become a victim or stand up and survive, despite everything. Many of us are hurt and damaged, not all of us had his chance - to speak loud, people to embrace his idea and change because of it. What happened to Chester from Linkin Park? He was at the bottom when he decided to fight, at the end pain finished him, but the fact he tried to fight helped many people not to end like he did. I think this is huge, this is the biggest thing you can do in your life - help someone else. Is that now that we all are happy he have a problems and we want him to keep suffer just to listen more music?

LEMONedMe

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2017, 10:04:37 PM »
Thanks for all this discussion going on, here.  I haven't joined in, yet, and not sure if I will because you all are covering pretty much everything but it sure is good information and very informative to read!

kayabee

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Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
« Reply #59 on: November 16, 2017, 02:01:38 AM »
my guess is drugs, but i think it's more than yoshiki just saying 'we didn't like each other'. I'm sure if he was still alive it would have been talked about, but if it was something bad, you usually don't talk about it, especially if the person is dead because it's just disrespecting them. No one will ever know. I think it was a mix of things, but i know before he died they reconciled and yoshiki did send him to rehab so I think they didn't hate each other just had differences when it came to it, but trust me, them just having differences isn't the reason he was fired. it was something more and we'll never know because when a person passes you don't talk about the bad things they've done.