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question : did sugizo really play hide part of guitar?

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CharonCaori

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Reply #30 on: October 05, 2010, 07:06:53 AM
I can't wait to hear silent jealousy. Unless I'm blind and deaf, Sugizo is playing the solo for that, and I can feel the energy even through the low-quality youtube videos.



Offline Matthias

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Reply #31 on: October 05, 2010, 07:31:11 AM
I really never thought I would defend their decision with using playbacks, cause I don't like them myself. I was just pointing out that there is still a large gap between fellows like Milli Vanilli and X using it on some songs. Of course I would prefer they would drop them at all, but as I said before, I don't see that happening during this tour. And I'm sure, the longer they will play together and release stuff (an album would be a good start :D) the less the Last Live Stuff will get.



Offline radicalblues

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Reply #32 on: October 05, 2010, 09:57:51 PM
@CharonCaori: Yes, Sugizo does the Silent Jealousy solo in lives.

@ Matthias: Well yes, of course. While Milli Vanilli tried to hide the fact that they playbacked, X JAPAN tries to make it as noticeable as possible. But the similar thing is that both use playback, even if done on different degrees.

Now, about the new album, I wouldn't get my hopes up, Yoshiki said that for the old songs, 90% of the instruments would remain the same: http://consequenceofsound.net/2010/10/05/x-marks-the-spot-an-interview-with-yoshiki-of-x-japan/

If Silent Jealousy was in the album, there's a good chance you'd hear hide and Taiji instead of Sugizo and Heath. =)

At least all the nostalgia hoes who didn't want old songs to be re-recorded will be happier.



Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #33 on: October 05, 2010, 10:19:57 PM
Yoshiki is thinking of having some of the live shows recorded, how is that ever going to work out!? Videos released for American's who've never seen them before, here comes the solo, "oh wait, they're not playing the solos at all, hacks!!!".

Yeah, great work trying to convince/get US fans there Yoshiki.



shane140

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Reply #34 on: October 05, 2010, 10:39:39 PM
Yeah, great work trying to convince/get US fans there Yoshiki.
Indeed.

Anyway, they'll never be released at this rate, well it probably will, just after the Violet-UK album.;)
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 10:45:44 PM by shane140 »



Offline ReiMISERY

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Reply #35 on: January 04, 2011, 11:34:45 PM
X NEVER needed a "3rd guitarist". A band can't be serious using playbacks instead of an alive member playing during 90% of the concert. This hide exploiting should end. Everybody is worried about Toshi being exploited by Masaya, but nobody seems to care about Hiroshi making lots of monnies with hide image.


what they said.

i totally agree with you, it's disrespectful to hide



Teemeah

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Reply #36 on: January 30, 2018, 08:04:28 AM
It's so funny to read these firey discussions in retrospect. LOL :D I think X Japan had their own reasons to do what they did and nobody knows what they were. Speculations will never reveal truth anyway... There could have been practical reasons behind Sugizo not playing all parts, like, the dude has always been super busy and could have needed more time to master all the songs. you never thought about THAT, right? :D The rest of the band probably can play any of the old X songs even while sleeping and you can wake them up and say, play it from the 3:32 mark and they will be able to do it because they played these a gazillion times all over. Sugizo has other things to do besides X, where he was just giving a helping hand at the time. :)



Offline matsumoto

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Reply #37 on: January 30, 2018, 09:28:03 AM
Reading stuff on this forum from almost ten years ago is always priceless.  8)

Anyway. X in 1990:
Hide plays the guitar and the hairspray, Pata plays the guitar and the JD, Taiji plays the bass and wreaks havoc everywhere, Toshi sings and dreams about his future life as a chef, Yoshiki plays drums, piano, writes most of the songs and channels his inner Disney princess.

X in 2018:
Yoshiki writes the songs, Yoshiki writes the music, Yoshiki plays the guitar parts, Yoshiki plays the piano, Yoshiki plays the drums, Yoshiki plays the bass, Yoshiki attends the fan events, Yoshiki picks the stage costumes, Yoshiki decides on how to fix his own spine issues and Yoshiki has his own wine brand so Yoshiki can personally make sure he's the cause of your Yoshikihangover.

Woah, I can haz admin colour.


Offline Joker

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Reply #38 on: January 31, 2018, 03:24:40 PM
And ten years later we still have hide playbacks in Art of Life and Week End. And Drain, which at least can be justified.
But is still weird. And they don't even talk about it anymore, as it is pretty normal a guitar solo played by nobody in a live concert. And Week End backing vocal being a shitty recording with drums leaking.



Offline nb

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Reply #39 on: January 31, 2018, 05:36:38 PM

X in 2018:
Yoshiki writes the songs, Yoshiki writes the music, Yoshiki plays the guitar parts, Yoshiki plays the piano, Yoshiki plays the drums, Yoshiki plays the bass, Yoshiki attends the fan events, Yoshiki picks the stage costumes, Yoshiki decides on how to fix his own spine issues and Yoshiki has his own wine brand so Yoshiki can personally make sure he's the cause of your Yoshikihangover.

 ;D but in fact sadly true


positively unsure。


Offline LEMONedMe

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Reply #40 on: February 01, 2018, 07:27:57 AM
No, no, no, no, no - Yoshiki can't play guitar like hide or Sugizo, nor like Pata for that matter.  He doesn't appear to be very good on guitar at all, unfortunately. 

Sometimes our tears blinded the love
We lost out dreams along the way
But I never thought you'd trade your soul to the fates
Never thought you'd leave me alone


Offline nb

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Reply #41 on: February 01, 2018, 12:49:27 PM
of course he does not. this is more like he is totally controlling everything. suddenly its what i ment...

btw pata is a very good guitarplayer. you have to here some of his solo stuff or rain. He usually plays a different musictype


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Offline matsumoto

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Reply #42 on: February 01, 2018, 01:56:51 PM
I don't disagree with them keeping some of Hide's recordings. Like it or not (and I sort of like it) Hide has a bit of a sacred status amongst the fans, you don't want to get rid of the awesome stuff he created all that fast.

What bugs me a little is that they sort of underutilise Pata and Sugizo. Pata is an awesome guitarist. He might not be easy to work with, but heck, I cringe very hard everytime Yoshiki mentions recording the riffs himself. Sugizo is also a very interesting musician, wish we could see more of him.

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Offline Joker

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Reply #43 on: February 01, 2018, 03:26:08 PM
I don't disagree with them keeping some of Hide's recordings. Like it or not (and I sort of like it) Hide has a bit of a sacred status amongst the fans, you don't want to get rid of the awesome stuff he created all that fast.

What bugs me a little is that they sort of underutilise Pata and Sugizo. Pata is an awesome guitarist. He might not be easy to work with, but heck, I cringe very hard everytime Yoshiki mentions recording the riffs himself. Sugizo is also a very interesting musician, wish we could see more of him.

I totally disagree of using playback on a LIVE concert. It breaks all the "feeling" of a LIVE concert.
hide was important, hide was awesome, yada yada... I agree. But unfortunately he is dead. If Yoshiki still wants to do something with X besides inflating his huge ego, he must move on.

It's kinda weird the guitar solo played by nobody in Art of Life, as is Sugizo pretending to sing the backing vocals of Born to be Free and I.V.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 03:41:23 PM by Joker »



Teemeah

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Reply #44 on: February 01, 2018, 03:43:32 PM
He won't move on. X was created in the first place because he couldn't even move on after his father's suicide. This whole band exists still because Yoshiki is a type of person who is unable to let his past go. He revels in his pain, that's what's keeping him going stil.Ask him to release his past and move on and the dude will end up killing himself, because he is unable to live without these memories tying him to his past. Hide's recordings will stay, just like the memorial images on screen, and the endless mentioning of "when hide died" in all of his interviews. Literally, all of them. This is what keeps Yoshiki alive. Unless he gets serious psychological treatment in a dedicated hospital, he will never be able to move on. And forget it, that he would ever let himself be treated. :) So like it or not, X Japan will stay the same for the next 5 years or so, and then Yoshiki's health will deteriorate so much he won't be able to go on anymore, physically. He will likely end up composing for piano and orchestra. I hope he won't contemplate suicide once he is officially unable to lift the drumsticks anymore. It's close, he also feels it. He hinted to it himself in the interview we did.



Offline matsumoto

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Reply #45 on: February 01, 2018, 04:13:14 PM
I'd have to know the guy better to affirm whether it's all for real or not. Let's not forget that Hide's image and allure are worth kazillions of yen, you don't need to be an exploitative son a of a bitch to realise how lucrative it is to perpetuate the whole thing. Any businessman, even the most human of them all, would jump in at this. And Yoshiki is a darn good businessman. The need to keep up the Hidecraze is probably a blend of emotional attachment and business strategy.

I like Hide very much, just like I like Elvis and Bowie and plenty of other dead people. But I could very much accept a post-Hide X. Though this is not the case for say, 80% of their fans. In the early 2000s I was in contact with fans who told me they still cried over the guy. A bit weird, but hey. Then I went on a long hiatus and when I came back to the fandom, I realised people were still crying over the dude. You should have seen the documentary premiers here, they could have been sponsored by Kleenex. 8) And it's been 20 years, guys. Many of those fans were not even alive in 98. They are literally passionately crying over a dude they never met, who lived a world away, and who died before they were even born. I'm not judging at all, just pointing out how big the whole Hide-thing is. That being said, I agree with Joker's point on the playbacks. They have two highly skilled guitarists there, why not damn use them?

Woah, I can haz admin colour.


Teemeah

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Reply #46 on: February 01, 2018, 04:28:19 PM
The Hungarian fandom is also mostly made up of hide fans, whose Facebook profile is full of hide photos. I'm myself getting sunk into the hide craze, lol, I'm gonna cosplay him this spring at the upcoming con. My wig is ready and half of the costume done. It's weird. But there is a sentiment towards talented artists that die young. The potential you could never have witnessed because they died in their prime. He was a good musician, though I doubt he was such a phenomenal guitarist his fans like to profess him to be, but I don't doubt he was good at his craft. He certainly has a magnetic draw, his looks are beyond words, and his personality is this strange combination of quirky-nerdy-fun with apparently a heart of gold, caring about people around him. Everything minus his alcoholism is a draw for me. His death certainly elevated him into cult status, just like it happened to Kurt Cobain. I'm sure there are Cobain fans out there who still religiously cry over him at every death anniversary. All of us need such outlets, virtua shoulders to cry on. But that's already probably a field of psychology dealing with celebrity worship reasons. Whatever the reason, hide is a cult icon, and that's not gonna go away.



Offline nb

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Reply #47 on: February 01, 2018, 05:51:26 PM
What bugs me a little is that they sort of underutilise Pata and Sugizo. Pata is an awesome guitarist. He might not be easy to work with, but heck, I cringe very hard everytime Yoshiki mentions recording the riffs himself. Sugizo is also a very interesting musician, wish we could see more of him.

Did you ever heard his first Solo Album? It's breathtaking, especially for the time when it was released


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Offline Joker

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Reply #48 on: February 02, 2018, 02:14:13 AM
What bugs me a little is that they sort of underutilise Pata and Sugizo. Pata is an awesome guitarist. He might not be easy to work with, but heck, I cringe very hard everytime Yoshiki mentions recording the riffs himself. Sugizo is also a very interesting musician, wish we could see more of him.

Did you ever heard his first Solo Album? It's breathtaking, especially for the time when it was released

Pata's first solo album is amazing. So are all of Sugizo's solo albums.
X has two awesome guitarists, each one with totally diferent styles but which can somehow work together (as hide worked well with Pata, even on Spread Beaver). They can add a lot on the new songs, which lack those great guitar solos.

There is a noticeable difference between Yoshiki's new songs and, for example, Beneath the Skin. Both are insanely different from the classic X, but Beneath the Skin is hugely more "worked on" than a song like Hero or La Venus.



Offline YoshToshBGosh

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Reply #49 on: February 02, 2018, 05:43:27 AM
I'm pretty sure they used less and less hide tracks over the years, and Sugizo plays very well. They reunited without being well rehearsed, and that showed. Sugizo made enough mistakes already without having to play all the solos back then.
I doubt they'll stop using the backing tracks altogether though, for the hide fans and for the fuller sound(Yoshiki would probably like to have an orchestra at every gig).



Offline Joker

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Reply #50 on: February 02, 2018, 02:38:51 PM
Sugizo made enough mistakes already without having to play all the solos back then.
As if hide or Pata never did.

The point is: they're a freaking rock band, not Britney Spears. There is no point for using playback.



Offline nb

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Reply #51 on: February 02, 2018, 06:30:51 PM
Yoshiki makes also many mistakes on drums. In wembley for example at the beginning of beneath the skin.

But as Joker said. It's a rock band. And... You know, Toshi makes a lot of mistakes too... ;)


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Teemeah

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Reply #52 on: February 02, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
you know very well what she meant. That Sugizo might not have been fully versed in all X songs at the beginning. The dude has a gazillion jobs besides X Japan. I'm pretty sure he wasn't even 50% ready to tour with them when they started the whole "let's go overseas" stuff.



Offline Matthias

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Reply #53 on: February 02, 2018, 07:19:09 PM
Sugizo is a professional, so I'm pretty sure he would have been able to handle all of the guitar duties when they embarked on a longer tour. So as everyone here pointed out, there were (and maybe still are) other reasons for using the playback every now and then.

And yeah, would be nice to have Pata and Sugizo contribute more, or have more and longer guitar solos in general, but that's a personal preference. ;)



Teemeah

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Reply #54 on: February 02, 2018, 08:02:48 PM
Professionalism is one thing, learning to play 20+ songs by heart still takes time and practice. Even for pros.



Offline pt_93

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Reply #55 on: February 02, 2018, 10:07:13 PM
I get it in the reunion concerts and the hide memorial but it did irk be later on when most solos were not played by Sugizo. Thankfully by 2011 Sugizo played most of the solos, I think it's ok for Art of Life, it's only 1 song and Sugizo still plays the 3rd guitar in the harmonies but it'd be better if they could show hide's video. But the backing vocals are so pointless, I've seen Sugizo do backing vocals in some concerts and in other ones they use hide's, I don't get WHY.

Also, I wish they went back to play the Kurenai intro with violin and piano instead of showing hide's recording from The Last Live.



Offline nb

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Reply #56 on: February 02, 2018, 11:06:18 PM

Also, I wish they went back to play the Kurenai intro with violin and piano instead of showing hide's recording from The Last Live.

yes, i really like that version too


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Offline YoshToshBGosh

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Reply #57 on: February 03, 2018, 02:27:49 AM
you know very well what she meant. That Sugizo might not have been fully versed in all X songs at the beginning. The dude has a gazillion jobs besides X Japan. I'm pretty sure he wasn't even 50% ready to tour with them when they started the whole "let's go overseas" stuff.
Exactly, as far as I remember it, he actually played the wrong progression of powerchords(like simple chords) in the verse of "X", which seems kinda embarassing. Toshi wasn't in good vocal shape, either(now he totally is). They would have needed more time to rehearse,  but once contracts are signed, you have to deliver. Got way better on the World tour!



Offline Joker

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Reply #58 on: February 03, 2018, 11:48:40 AM
you know very well what she meant. That Sugizo might not have been fully versed in all X songs at the beginning. The dude has a gazillion jobs besides X Japan. I'm pretty sure he wasn't even 50% ready to tour with them when they started the whole "let's go overseas" stuff.
Exactly, as far as I remember it, he actually played the wrong progression of powerchords(like simple chords) in the verse of "X", which seems kinda embarassing. Toshi wasn't in good vocal shape, either(now he totally is). They would have needed more time to rehearse,  but once contracts are signed, you have to deliver. Got way better on the World tour!

When the band isn't working together for a long time, they don't "fit" together. I have the 1994 DVDs and those concerts were extremely produced and awfully performed. Heath bass out of tune, Toshi's hoarse voice, Yoshiki missing simple stuff like the piano start from Endless Rain. When they got back rehearsing together for a longer period on Dahlia Tour, their performances were awesome again.

The first concerts after the reunion were quite messy. Let's remember that on the reunion concerts in 2008, Yoshiki said that would be 10 guitarists playing the different songs. On the last minute he said that the production had lots of issues, there is no enough time to rehearse and everything with all of them, then he announces Sugizo and the WTFiest guests ever, Wes Borland and Richard Fortus, which basically "appear" and play power chords, while almost the whole concert had hide playback. Sugizo confirmed this story in an interview later, saying that even Miyavi (ugh!) was intended to be there but there were some issues caused by the lack of time.

The 2009 concerts were awful. Everyone doing lots of mistakes, Toshi's voice was really bad (strong pressure from HoH to release 896419 albums each month), Yoshiki himself made mistakes on almost every songs (oh, that disastrous performance of Dahlia...)

Things started to get better since 2011 as they are spending more time together in the tours, rehearsing together. During the 2009 crisis with Heath, him and Yoshiki said in different interviews that 'kept rehearsing for the upcoming concerts', but each one alone with recordings. Is never the same thing as everyone working together.

Since 2015, despite the age and Yoshiki's health issues, they are in the best shape since the reunion. Lunatic Fest and Wembley concerts were the highlights (and even on Wembley Yoshiki missed the final part of X making everyone confused... but was somehow hilarious). Even the acoustic tour, which they had so little time to create new arrangements for most songs, were amazing. Sugizo even sang the backing vocal part of Heath (never understood why he doesn't even have a mic since the 2011 tours), showing that he can sing these backing vocal parts without the need of those awfully recorded parts of Last Live.

When a band work together as a band, everything goes smoothly.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 11:53:19 AM by Joker »



Teemeah

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Reply #59 on: February 03, 2018, 11:54:25 AM
so then why is it so confusing to you guys that they used a lot of hide recordings in the beginning when they had a new member who hasn't yet adjusted to band dynamics and learnt all the songs yet? :) Sugizo has now enough experience with X, and that's why the acoustic rehearsals could go smoothly too. He knows the songs by now so it's easier for him and for the others too to convert that to acoustic settings. Imagine you already have several bands you perform with, you have  a gazillion solos, and then suddenly you need to also learn a completely new set of songs, too. Amd X concerts are incredibly long, it's not like they play 7 songs and wrap up :D My opinion is still that no matter how professional Sugizo is, he also needed time and practice to master the songs for his X Japan performances. Hence the hide backing tracks in the beginning.