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What do you think about X's genre? o_O

~Carmilla~ · 11394

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Offline HarZy

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Reply #30 on: July 05, 2009, 08:00:52 PM
^VK has never been a genre. I understand what you mean, but visual kei has nothing to do with music, and it never had anything to do with music. The early visual bands could be called shock metal or something.

I'm not really understanding your argument, why "shock metal"?

"Glam rock" is regarded as a genre despite being based around band aesthetics, why can't Visual Kei be like that? Especially when all of the early bands dubbed "Visual kei" all musically had a lot of things in common, a lot more things in common than most contemporary "Glam rock" bands. While I regard Visual Kei as being more of a fashion than a genre in this day and age there is no doubt that during X's emergance it was as legitimate as a genre than anything else.

Well, if Alice Cooper is shock rock, bands like early X, Rosenfeld, Mein Kampf, etc. could be called shock metal. :p

To my understanding visual kei means visual style, and since when has style been a music genre? The early "visual kei" bands weren't called visual kei at the time anyway.
And glam rock is a term used for "visual" rockbands, so no, I wouldn't call it a genre either.



Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #31 on: July 05, 2009, 08:16:28 PM
I don't see how that sentance makes sence, you can't just say "they're still X" and expect that to suddenly mean they're still the same X, and Toshi can't just shout out "We are X" and "psychadelic violence crime of visual shock" when they're clearly not the same at all anymore, and the "psychadelic violence crime of visual shock" doesn't apply to them anymore either imo.

The change they've gone through is bigger than any other band, the band to change their style of music the 2nd most is probably Black Sabbath, but at least they still continued to make quality metal tunes. This change X-Japan has taken is just a kick in the face to the old fans, Yoshiki's completely leaving us behind, and I will never understand the people that can't see that and continue to try and make excuses for everything X-Japan does all the time as if they're perfect and can do no wrong, and don't comment back saying you don't think X is perfect, because that's exactly what you're acting like, the comments in many of the world tour threads are staggering with how many ass kissers there are, and those people are boring, not the people who want to rightfully discuss when the band isn't going in the right direction and actually want to help make the band good again.

The truth is They wouldn't have been able to get away with the changes they've made even for a second if they had originally become famous in the U.K/U.S and always performed there, because in 1989-1993 they were a proper heavy metal band, and people in the U.K/U.S respect metal a LOT more it seems. And incase you havn't noticed how metal fans react when bands change for the worse like Metallica, we don't like it when bands we like suddenly start creating songs that show a lack of song writing ability from songs previous, also we consider metal to be one of the top creative genres of music in the world, which is why we don't like it when a style that we feel is completely different, doesn't have anywhere near the same feeling, and requires less talent, is suddenly taking up too much of the setlist, or becomes the direction of new songs for the band.

Can you imagine how the fans would react if Priest, Dio, Sabbath and Maiden for example suddenly stopped playing their metal songs and took up 80% of the setlist with ballads and dancing ballet's to advertise solo projects? People would go insane, and I wish X-Japan had that fanbase, people who actually properly cared for the metal genre of music and realise when they're being left in the dark and stand up to that. It also doesn't help that Yoshiki doesn't allow anybody to have any input into anything, not new songs or musical direction, not anything, and if you anyone tried, well, you know what'd happen. Did Yoshiki actually check, if X-Japan fans liked Violet UK, before he brought them out onto ther stage in the middle of an X concert for the first time? No. Did he check after that if we liked the Violet UK appearence? No, he's brought them out like four more times since then, and did Yoshiki check wether the fans would like the new songs to sound like Violet UK, or the untalented generic metal songs of today? No, clearly he doesn't listen to anything anyone says.

That's what I think and I don't care if anyone gets fed up of my talk about how they're metal, and my comparisons with other bands, because that's what X are, X/X-Japan, is and will always be a metal band, and from there, the less metal songs they make, the more of the setlist is taken up by songs that aren't metal, the worse they become, that's like an unwritten/unspoken rule for the entire genre and all metal bands because I've never seen a single metal band ever do what X-Japan has, and it seems only Yoshiki hasn't learnt and understood that. You can't for example have a metal band that suddenly starts making 80% rap songs, 20% metal and still call them a good band just because some people like rap, because they will always be a metal band, a crap metal band that for some reason makes rap 80% of the time.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 08:45:10 PM by Ulquiorra »



Offline Camazotz

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Reply #32 on: July 05, 2009, 09:21:20 PM
I didn't think of it in that way, but yeah, I guess you're kind of right. They have only played two new songs, so maybe the other won't sound that much like Violet UK, even though I doubt that... Eh, I don't really know what to say but, I guess we can't do much about X's change in music, because as you said; Yoshiki doesn't listen to anyone else.

Sorry, I'm really bad at english but...

I belive if time passes, everything turnes into beauty.


Offline Sander

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Reply #33 on: July 05, 2009, 09:35:39 PM
However much I'd like to agree, I think you are missing a few things-

The developments of X Japan after Taiji left and the developments of Yoshiki (the band leader) after X broke up and before they reunited.

And the other thing, even though the opinion of fans can be an important issue, you'll still want to play the music YOU like. When I was in a band, we didn't sing what the fans (both of them XD ) liked, we sung what we liked. And if there are people who still want to listen, then go ahead.

No one forces the 'old' fans to listen to the new songs, the new concerts. You can pretty easily find out the last setlists so everyone should have a decent image of what he'll see at an X Japan concert nowadays, so if you decide to go, don't be dissapointed if you don't see them play I'll Kill You and Sadistic Desire.


Further discussion on the topic is welcomed, but mind that it has to stay in the limits. Comments like 'old songs rock and VUK sucks' and 'if you don't like it go screw yourself' won't be tolerated. Thankyou :)

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Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #34 on: July 05, 2009, 09:51:09 PM
Before my main post I just want to say I'm sorry for the long posts but when i get really annoyed at something that i think is something quite important I get into huge rants like these, I have to explain a lot, I'll probably calm down soon, anyway.

I already discussed why I don't like the development the band took after Taiji left, its the same direction they're taking now, only now its 10x worse.

I understand that the members have got to play the music they like, but I only see Yoshiki playing the music he'd like, Pata is into old style Rock n' Roll, Toshi likes peacefull happy songs, and when hide was alive he liked happy sounding rock songs, but since the Dahlia era and the entire of the world tour, I havn't seen any sign of any other other members having their input into what songs they'd like to hear on the setlist, just Yoshiki's ballads. I will not be suprised if Toshi's the one to turn around again at some point soon and say he's leaving because of the overuse of ballads upsetting him emotionally, you'd think after the first time Yoshiki would learn to not overdo the ballads with Toshi, but I guess not.

Also Yoshiki was playing lots of the music he liked back in the early nineties, he still played tons of ballads back then, and piano solos, but they also played songs that the other members and the fans liked, now Yoshiki seems to only play music that he himself and people who only want ballads like, and not metal, which makes no sense as they're a metal band.

And yes it is my fault in a way if I get dissapointed by the new lives by watching them, but it can still be sad to me to know the state they're in even if I don't watch any of their concerts and I've just read their shows setlists.

I'm glad we're just talking about this normally, that's all I want, please don't respond comments like "you insulted X-Japan, I'll Kill You (they're never playing that one again) how could you!!", as Hypno said.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2009, 11:11:53 PM by Ulquiorra »



Offline Camazotz

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Reply #35 on: July 05, 2009, 10:01:32 PM
Are you talking to me? xD

I belive if time passes, everything turnes into beauty.


Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #36 on: July 05, 2009, 10:04:24 PM
No that was a responce to Hypno's post, you're post I'm perfectly fine with & I agree with you.



Offline ElefeX

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Reply #37 on: July 05, 2009, 10:16:57 PM
I agree with Hypno, as much as fans may moan about what they do and don’t want, at the end of the day it is up to X Japan. I can see what you are saying Ulquiorra (hope spelling is ok!) and it is a valid point; it really would be great to hear some older stuff during the lives (which should reflect their entire career, rather than focussing entirely on more recent songs). They do have a relatively big collection of songs (even with just 5 studio albums!) and it would be fantastic to hear more of their songs other than just the usual set-list. However a lot has happened, especially in the last 10+ years and they are still getting used to working with each other again in a different group set-up.

With regards to new songs, it would be a boring world if every band was restricted to the type of music they started out with. Yes, I agree they should not forget their roots, however at the same time artists should be allowed to evolve and experiment with different types of music. Ultimately, I guess they can do what they want - nobody is forcing us to listen to it.









Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #38 on: July 05, 2009, 10:35:44 PM
Yeah that's true I just wish Yoshiki wouldn't completely forget about the old fans which it feels like he's doing. And I definatly want the band to evolve and do different types of songs, I do, but Yoshiki should learn to also keep the similar style and sound as well, a good example of a band that's done that is Blind Guardian's A Twist In The Myth album, it sounds a little bit different & more modern then their older songs, but still has the spirit and feel of the old songs, I think that's what X-Japan's new songs should've been like, and I think that's what everyone was expecting.



Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #39 on: July 05, 2009, 11:03:18 PM
I've been thinking that Yoshiki only played Blue Blood at the countdown gig because they played at a small venue, as if heavy metal songs like Blue Blood aren't suited for huge arenas, which has been proven wrong by every other metal band to ever exist. But yeah they did bring back Silent Jealousy, so that's slightly a good sign.



Offline ElefeX

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Reply #40 on: July 05, 2009, 11:08:00 PM
Yeah that's true I just wish Yoshiki wouldn't completely forget about the old fans which it feels like he's doing. And I definatly want the band to evolve and do different types of songs, I do, but Yoshiki should learn to also keep the similar style and sound as well, a good example of a band that's done that is Blind Guardian's A Twist In The Myth album, it sounds a little bit different & more modern then their older songs, but still has the spirit and feel of the old songs, I think that's what X-Japan's new songs should've been like, and I think that's what everyone was expecting.

Yes, although I do think that all bands should be allowed to evolve musically and do different types of song if they want, I also agree that new songs should keep some of the spirit and feel of the older songs, otherwise are they the same band anymore? It is all very well evolving and changing but it has to make sense for the band, there is no point in change for changes sake! As you have already mentioned it is possible to change the style of music whilst still retaining some of the “old magic”. Who knows, maybe we will see this with the Studio version of Jade!






Offline roseofpain84

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Reply #41 on: July 06, 2009, 12:08:37 AM


I also find it very frustrating when there are fans who treat you like a heretic because you say something negative about the band.
It makes me wonder why it's such blasphemy to say that there should be less ballads and more metal songs? It's the right of every fan to have an opinion, and it's not because that opinion is negative, that you're less of a fan...


See...it's funny you mention this...XD
Because this 5-6 years that I've been an X fan...it seems to me that I've been considered a somewhat 'inferior' fan for loving the ballads and for saying that my favourite album is Dahlia....
Or well..not specifically me since I tend to avoid participating in forums that much but anyone else with similar opinions to mine....
But now you say that people think it's a blasphemy when anyone requests less ballads....XD

Anyway, it'd be great if there was an equal amount of ballads and faster songs I suppose. ^^;


And actually, I wanted to say this about the whole genre thing. Why does the entire band need to be classified as saomething? I dunno....for me things were always as simple as 'I like listening to this song/band' and 'I don't like listening to this song/band'.
Also, I really don't think that a band should be limiting themselves to one genre.
I understand that some fans may be disappointed by this when a band changed to something they dislike. If suddenly X Japan turned to r'n'b I'd prolly freak out for example but well..I also don't see why you need to always stick to one genre. And wasn't Yoshiki saying in older interviews that he really disliked it when people were telling him things like 'You can't do this cause you are a rock band.'?
 



Yeah, I'm a Yoshiki fangirl. SUE ME.


Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #42 on: July 06, 2009, 02:33:06 AM
People were acting like it was blashpemy to request that X-Japan performs more rock songs, anytime anyone has said that recently people go "oh shutup, you're complaining all the time! Boring!!" When there's nothing wrong with what we're requesting.

"Anyway, it'd be great if there was an equal amount of ballads and faster songs I suppose. ^^;"

uuum, for a metal band I think its a lot more of an appropriate thing to do then "I suppose", how about damn right yes!! A better balance of songs that pleases everybody. Also I fail to see how anyone's saying that X-Japan should stick to one genre, noone in this thread has said that, I would love setlists with metal songs, ballads, experimental songs ect. And that's what they used to have a good balance of, and that's all I'm asking for.



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #43 on: July 06, 2009, 11:50:09 AM
why they've lost the balance? they don't play metal anymore, and even now they only play two/three rock songs per show, the rest is all ballads or shit


um....please, add "in my opinion there" XD


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Offline KRazyJess

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Reply #44 on: July 06, 2009, 04:32:21 PM
Content deleted.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 11:54:35 AM by KRazyJess »



Offline AsukaMiyu

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Reply #45 on: July 06, 2009, 05:37:49 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1P-OYwD9Ms[/youtube]

...When the morning begins
I'll be in the next chapter...


Offline KRazyJess

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Reply #46 on: July 06, 2009, 06:48:52 PM
Content deleted.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 11:54:44 AM by KRazyJess »



Offline AsukaMiyu

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Reply #47 on: July 06, 2009, 07:13:17 PM
Oh, just wanted to point out Yoshiki's title: "the greatest man in the world of heavy metal" :D
(I thought you know this video...)

As for my opinion on the whole topic....
Dunno who said it before, but X are just X and that's it. who needs genre anyway. :P

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Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #48 on: July 06, 2009, 07:51:43 PM
"the greatest man in the world of heavy metal"

Thankyou, that's all I needed to know, as well as the fact that i'm pretty sure that none of the members ever said the actual words "we're not a metal band", at the time the music spoke for itself and told us what genre they were, and they were a metal band, that also played lots of ballads even in the early days (clearly not enough for some people), and later on experimental songs like Drain and White Poem, but now they've taken the ballads too far imo. And imo they will also continue to be a metal band as long as they keep playing them, no matter how few. They do have many types of songs, but now they seem to neglectic the type of music that they're most famous for and infact made them famous.

Also, "the greatest man in the world of heavy metal", definatly does not apply to him anymore, and not because they're not metal, they still are and always will be imo, but because he's clearly not the greatest man in heavy metal with the way he rejects it and devotes 3/4 of a concert with non metal songs.

Personally I think the whole "X is X, that is all, there is no genre" is a load of crap, there's a genre for every band, that's a fact, every band has a genre, and every fan of every band out there knows what genre the bands they listen to are, but suddenly, when people like me and darkcat suddenly start critisising X, suddenly they're the only band that "doesn't have a genre, they're just X", that's just sounds like a made up excuse on the spot as defense from our comments to say "as X as no genre, they can't be critisised, game over".

X is a metal band, that in the later years played more and more ballads, and their later metal songs became lighter & less heavy, like Rusty Nail for example, if people want to think differently, fine, but I see it as something simple like that. I think others are over complicating the whole thing.

KRazyJess, if that's what you want to keep thinking then fine go ahead, your opinion.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 08:50:03 PM by Ulquiorra »



Offline roseofpain84

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Reply #49 on: July 06, 2009, 08:00:50 PM
You know...I was actually looking at the set lists and counting how many of the songs are ballads.....and err...really, it's half & half...
But then again...I'm under the impression that you count songs such as Rusty Nail and I.V. as ballads while I don't count them as such...:-S
Obviously I was simply counting ballads and non ballads not metal and non metal so the results for that would prolly be different.
I also didn't count the band member's solos at all.....:-/



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Offline Ulquiorra

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Reply #50 on: July 06, 2009, 08:07:10 PM
I don't count songs like I.V/Dahlia/Silent Jealousy as ballads, however they can give that edge to the feeling in the concert when they're almost the only metal songs that are played, as well as all the ballads, also I do think the solo stuff contributes to it, Weekend had the last quarter of the song cut off to go into a long depressing piano&violin duet, Yoshiki's several Piano solos & Drum solo, they all take up lots of the time in concerts and they do give a depressing mood to the concerts sometimes, when a couple of those slots could be used for some old songs, and I really don't think its always half and half, the Hong Kong concerts definatly were, but the reunion concerts and the taipei live for example are in favour of ballads.

Me & Darkcat/anyone else who feels this way definatly aren't critisising nothing, if we feel this way that means something's wrong.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 08:24:38 PM by Ulquiorra »



Offline Lucs

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Reply #51 on: July 06, 2009, 08:54:11 PM
I'll just give my opinion about all this.

That is... who cares ? ??? ???

Genre is useless. Human always needs to make categories, and everybody/everything has to fit somewhere. In my opinion, this sucks.

X Japan is X Japan. It's ROCK music for sure, not rap, not r&b, not classical, not jazz. But then, who cares if it's metal, rock, industrial rock, classical rock, death metal blop rock ? ???

Plus, X JAPAN is a band that changed a lot since its first days, so it's really useless to try to classify the 20+ years of X JAPAN in only one genre.

We are X 8)


Offline darkcat21

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Reply #52 on: July 06, 2009, 09:18:33 PM
Quote
X is not a metal band. X is not any genre in fact. That was their whole point. They wanted to be something that would not fit in any genre and not fit in anywhere. That was their pride and joy, that nobody could put a clear label on them. The discussion is interesting to see what genres could cover X's music, but it's impossible to find just one. They've never admitted to being a metal band and never wanted to be a metal band so they're not. If you want to keep believing that, it's your problem, but you're only setting yourself for more disappointments.
it's funny, if Yoshiki's point was not to be labeled in any genre, why did he agree to be interview in Global Metal? =S

hi there


Offline Sander

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Reply #53 on: July 06, 2009, 10:42:39 PM
Last three concerts:

Taiwan:
Amethyst SE
Rusty Nail
WEEK END
Silent Jealousy

PATA & HEATH solo
Hide no Heya

Acoustic set
Piano solo

I.V.
Kurenai

Say Anything
Orgasm
Violet UK
Drum solo
Tears
World Anthem SE
X
Endless Rain
ART OF LIFE

May 3rd:
Amethyst SE
Rusty Nail
Week End
Jade
Drain

Longing
Largo SE
Piano solo

Tears
KURENAI
Orgasm

Fashion Show
Drum solo
Without you
World Anthem SE
IV
X

Endless Rain
Art of Life
Say Anything SE

May 2nd:
THE LAST SONG
Rusty Nail
WEEK END
Jade

PATA Solo
hide no heya
Rose of Pain
Largo SE
Tears
DAHLIA
KURENAI

Fashion Show
Drum solo
WITHOUT YOU
IV
X

ENDLESS RAIN
Say Anything SE

Solos and SE's - 18
Mostly rock/metal/fast songs - 24
Ballads - 12
VUK and Fashion shows - 3

I wouldn't say ballads are overpowering anything. A violin/piano intro/outro doesn't make a song a ballad.

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Offline denx

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Reply #54 on: July 07, 2009, 04:30:34 AM
A violin/piano intro/outro doesn't make a song a ballad.  ===>> it makes the song sounds ballad, but off course its ok, still rock/metal song, its improvisation. some of my friend commented, they dont like kurenai or dahlia songs when they listen to that, but when they listen  the intro of kurenai and dahlia (tokyo dome live 2&3 may 2009), they said that its a beatiful song, so melodic.

X got a lot of fans, its almost impossible to satisfied all of them, the only things they can do, play their most popular song and new song, thats it. X change their type of music from time to time, this is why they keep getting more fans and more fans, for example 100 people love their rock song, 100 love their ballad, , 100 people love their rock ballad (i.v, rusty nail). they got 300 fans, instead of X keep doing the same music and only got 100 fans. am i wrong?  for me, X better keep changing their type of music as long as its sounds good , remember music is universal, X also universal, X got eastern adn western fans, we are X. i also very happy, if people can categorized X in so many genre, its doesnt matter for me, as long as they love X.

Ex denxdenx


Offline KRazyJess

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Reply #55 on: July 07, 2009, 10:53:41 AM
Content deleted.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 11:55:12 AM by KRazyJess »



Offline ElefeX

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Reply #56 on: July 07, 2009, 10:57:31 AM
I agree, it is impossible for X Japan to please all of their fans all of the time. I personally love how they adapt and modify their songs; it’s not always the same old performance which is great, plus I like how they are using Sugizo’s talents in the band - he does play a mean violin!! Personally, I do not think they have strayed too far from their roots, it is still rock music, they have not ventured into r'n'b or rap!

My own opinion on the lives - I think they have a good balance of songs. Like I said before it would be great to hear some older songs that are not played often. But to be honest I am happy with the songs they do play and it’s great that they even change them up a bit (eg. Kurenai and Dahlia). If I went to an X Japan concert I would want to see the popular live performances (X, Kurenai, Rusty Nail, Weekend, Endless Rain etc.) and I think that many people who are seeing X Japan live for the first time would agree, so I think we can expect to see more of the same setlists for the other World Tour concerts.  It is the same with the reunion concerts, it was their first time back in 10+ years so it is to be expected that they play the popular songs (the same as any band).

At the end of the day does it matter what genre(s) X Japan does or does not fit into – if you like the music listen, if you don’t then don’t. It does not matter about the labels.


Edited to add - I agree with KRazyJess, just because he appeared in Global Metal does not really mean anything, it is all about exposure and it is important that X Japan and members participate in such things for recognition. I think X Japan are really difficult to stick a genre on, their music is complicated so it is not as simple as saying they are a, b or c.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 11:03:31 AM by ElefeX »



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #57 on: July 07, 2009, 11:22:03 AM
Lucs, I love you.


I definitely couldn't agree more.


And IMO, the ridicoulously amount of labels in music are what IS a load of crap.


Does the artist's music create emotions to you?


Do you like the friggin artist?



Personally, that's all I need.



Oh, and Ulquiorra, I bet you can't actually say for sure if all the people here who state " X is X" are making up an excuse or a defense or anything. You opinion, is your opinion, and we respect that. Don't categorize the rest of the people here.


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Offline obi325

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Reply #58 on: July 09, 2009, 09:10:39 PM
Quote
Genre is useless.

Couldn't agree more.
Music will stay the same if it's labeled as pop or as metal, it won't change if you label it differently.
Music is about expresing your emotions, not about which genre it is or some similar nonsense.