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BizKiTRoAcH · 56902

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Offline Hollywood

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Reply #150 on: July 23, 2008, 07:11:16 PM
Quote from: MillieQOF
Someone (don't remember if it was MD or Hollywod) insinuated that we should ban the X memebers if they signed up to this forum because one can't act like an asshat.
Apparently people believe stage personas are real.
Stage personae are not real, but irony sure as hell is.

If you want, I'll rephrase this kind of thing in a more pedantic way to help you out: if somehow X members were to join and behave as their public personae-- which are the "versions" of them we are discussing here anyway since 1. we don't know what they're like in real life anyway and 2. it's not appropriate to talk about their personal lives on a public forum-- it is ironic and therefore humorous that such behavior would be considered inappropriate by people who are supposedly fans and are on a forum about the band.

It's just really, really funny when an X forum takes on the attitude and "values" of a Hannah Montana forum.  It's like, I don't even know, a hip-hop forum with people saying "Good sirs, have you by chance partaken of the latest offerings from the Wu Tang quartet? Jolly good recordings, old chaps!"

Quote from: Skooter
It's a poll about the forum, there can't be anything wrong with trying to get as much users as possible involved in it. I'm sure the users in question will be able to read the rules and form their own opinion.
As I said, if they want to do that, go ahead.  I'm not saying not to.  I just find it amusing that "shouldn't we mass-mail everyone?" is being asked NOW when the poll's probable outcome has become pretty clear, rather than when the poll was first created.  If everyone had been mass-mailed at the very beginning I wouldn't have found it strange at all.

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #151 on: July 23, 2008, 08:30:49 PM
Quote from: MillieQOF
Someone (don't remember if it was MD or Hollywod) insinuated that we should ban the X memebers if they signed up to this forum because one can't act like an asshat.
Apparently people believe stage personas are real.
Stage personae are not real, but irony sure as hell is.

If you want, I'll rephrase this kind of thing in a more pedantic way to help you out: if somehow X members were to join and behave as their public personae-- which are the "versions" of them we are discussing here anyway since 1. we don't know what they're like in real life anyway and 2. it's not appropriate to talk about their personal lives on a public forum-- it is ironic and therefore humorous that such behavior would be considered inappropriate by people who are supposedly fans and are on a forum about the band.

It's just really, really funny when an X forum takes on the attitude and "values" of a Hannah Montana forum.  It's like, I don't even know, a hip-hop forum with people saying "Good sirs, have you by chance partaken of the latest offerings from the Wu Tang quartet? Jolly good recordings, old chaps!"

Quoted for truth.



Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #152 on: July 23, 2008, 10:26:14 PM
if somehow X members were to join and behave as their public personae-- which are the "versions" of them we are discussing here anyway since 1. we don't know what they're like in real life anyway and 2. it's not appropriate to talk about their personal lives on a public forum-- it is ironic and therefore humorous that such behavior would be considered inappropriate by people who are supposedly fans and are on a forum about the band.

I sure as hell would consider it inappropriate. Of course it's cool with bands who act rebellious and go against the flow. They're heroes some look up to, they're a source of inspiration to others. I love X and I love the badass image they had in the early 90's - that doesn't mean I want it to be a part of my daily life.
That also doesn't mean all the members on this forum would appreciate if anyone, even a celebrity, would walk up to them and smash a bottle in their face, insult them harshly or whatever.

Treat people with about the same amount of kindness you want to be treated with yourself.
Act continuously like an idiot towards fellow fans and you'll eventually get banned. I think that's completely fair. Just because a celebrity acts like an idiot (and I've never heard of X being mean towards other people) doesn't make it any more ok. 



Offline ferret

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Reply #153 on: July 23, 2008, 10:41:02 PM
If you could hear me through the net, you'd hear me allplaud, Millie  ;)
Also, there is a big difference between their public/stage persona in the eithties and now. You've got to be kidding youself if you still see them as the rock monsters they "used to be". They're not. They went through a big change in the nineties, their music became more mainstream if I may say so. Sure, they still play some of the harder songs eventually but mostly it's ballads and slower songs. AND, I'm sure most of us have been reading Yoshiki's blog entries and I've never seen him write anything that would qualify as "rock n' roll", some fucks/fuck yeahs here and there but that's pretty much as "hard" and "wild" as it gets.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 10:43:18 PM by ferret »

RIP


Offline Hollywood

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Reply #154 on: July 24, 2008, 12:27:52 AM
Quote from: ferret
Also, there is a big difference between their public/stage persona in the eithties and now. You've got to be kidding youself if you still see them as the rock monsters they "used to be". They're not.  They went through a big change in the nineties, their music became more mainstream if I may say so.
As I have said myself in about 500 posts on this forum.  And last time I checked, this forum is about X as they are AND as they were, given the existence of threads and subforums for their old concerts, old members, old songs, etc.  I have no idea where you're going with this, unless you're trying to say that everyone should behave like nuns because X plays too many ballads now?  (I'm wrong about this, right?  I hope?)

Your and (especially) Millie's latest posts are just really, really ironic and funny to me, because it's like this:

Welcome to our X forum!  We all love X!  We think they're the greatest band ever!

And if you're anything at all like the band we love, we'll ban your sorry ass! :D


Honestly, WTF?  Most forums-- hell, most people-- understand that like attracts like: people with a particular attitude, personality, philosophy, or lifestyle will tend to be attracted to things (including bands and musicians) that they feel something in common with.  Not always of course, since opposites sometimes do attract, but one would have to be incredibly naive to not understand such a basic aspect of human nature.

If you open a Grateful Dead forum, you will attract at least a few hippies.
If you open a gangsta rap forum, you will attract at least a few gangbangers.
If you open an X forum, you will attract at least a few rockers/rebels/badasses/whatever.

Why is this surprising or upsetting to anyone?

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline ferret

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Reply #155 on: July 24, 2008, 12:52:22 AM
I have no idea where you're going with this, unless you're trying to say that everyone should behave like nuns because X plays too many ballads now?  (I'm wrong about this, right?  I hope?)

Ok, I'll give you that, you're drawing some hilarious conclusions here. ;D I'm saying that if for example Yoshiki WERE a poster here, I highly doubt (given his current public persona) he'd post about fucking the hot chicks here till his cock fell off and telling everyone to go eat their dogs' shit in case somebody disagrees with him. I hope that was graphic enough?

RIP


Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #156 on: July 24, 2008, 01:31:07 AM
I have no idea where you're going with this, unless you're trying to say that everyone should behave like nuns because X plays too many ballads now?  (I'm wrong about this, right?  I hope?)

Ok, I'll give you that, you're drawing some hilarious conclusions here. ;D I'm saying that if for example Yoshiki WERE a poster here, I highly doubt (given his current public persona) he'd post about fucking the hot chicks here till his cock fell off and telling everyone to go eat their dogs' shit in case somebody disagrees with him. I hope that was graphic enough?

But if he did, what would be so wrong with it? Most of us would laugh it off as "fuck, Yoshiki, hope you're not driving anywhere tonight" and move on with our lives. Unless he was personally stalking people or some such, it would just be one more case of an over-the-top forum poster.



Offline Maverick

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Reply #157 on: July 24, 2008, 08:29:12 AM
No need to speculate and discuss about that since that won't NEVER ever happen.
Aside from that I don't get that thread anymore - you're making associations with things which where never meant and said in that sense and see stuff which doesn't exist. You guys fuckin' drive me nuts with that dead end argumentation! >___<

Honestly this thread here isn't discussing an existing problem but is a discussion only for discussing each other to death - i mean GET A LIFE, MAN!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 08:31:42 AM by Maverick »

Everywhere there flows...... BLUE BLOOD!!



Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #158 on: July 24, 2008, 09:57:10 AM
Really, Hollywood. All I'm saying is that anyone here is free to be a rocker/rebel and whatever. Use whatever  language you feel is necessary and talk about things that you think are cool. Just don't offend or be a dick towards other people. Everyone on this board are real live people with real feelings.
Everyone has understood and respected that you have your feelings against the rules - now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN) or want to read about MD's fantasies?

And don't tell me this is impossible, because it is possible.



Offline Anna

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Reply #159 on: July 24, 2008, 10:04:42 AM
Quote
terrorized

Is that so? I have not noticed.
And I think that having made your point, you guys could cool down too and not attack like a hive of bees.

Pony rocks!


Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #160 on: July 24, 2008, 10:08:21 AM
And I think that having made your point, you guys could cool down too and not attack like a hive of bees.
I'm going to pretend this was pointed towards Hollywood & co cause I don't see any attacking from the staff side.

Also, Hollywood & MD: now that there is a perfect board with the perfect rules - what are you still complaining here for?



Offline Anna

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Reply #161 on: July 24, 2008, 10:11:16 AM
I am not surprised you don't. Pretend all you like, though.

Pony rocks!


Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #162 on: July 24, 2008, 10:13:32 AM
Millie, I believe you're forgetting that PanthereNoire is 46 year old woman.

I would understand your point if PN were 12 or so and got her feelings hurt from the "harassment", but uhh..she's 46. She should be able to take care of herself.

As far as my personal opinion of PN goes, she has brought it on herself. I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that. If Panthere is brought up, it's "Hey, I saw Panther do _______ and I think it's bullshit." I don't see anything wrong with that. She's old enough to be responsible for her actions, if she has a problem with that, then tough shit, I say. Things for Panthere would go a lot more smoothly if she actually gave us her opinion on things instead of having the moderation staff talk for her.



Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #163 on: July 24, 2008, 10:17:48 AM
now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN)

WHAT THE FUCK? PANTHERE NOIRE was "terrorizing and insulting" people (note her PM to Hollywood, note her arbitrary editing of anti-JRR posts, note her chasing the Yoshiki/hide writer out of the fantext forum, note her calling legitimate news stories rumors, among other things. Sorry, but any insults she acquired were in the course of her "work" of promoting JRR, pissing off the hide fans, and trying to clean up X. You know the saying about throwing rocks at beehives? Who's "terrorizing" who, the bees who are trying to defend themselves from a pointless, sudden attack or the person who goes "hey, I'm gonna smash this with a rock?"

But that's a new one. Hey, Hollywood, we're forum terrists now! OMG SOMEONE CALL GEORGE BUSH AND WARN HIM OF THE INTERNETS TERRISTS. FUCKING LAWL.

And just as a side note, "I want to fuck Yoshiki" is a statement, not a fantasy. . .



Offline zyymurgy

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Reply #164 on: July 24, 2008, 10:20:11 AM
Wait, wait...

Bees?

In MY trees?

*gathers rocks...* We'll just see who's buzzing around now. I won't let them win. I will throw rocks until those bees realize I've won.

OW OW OW OW OW OW OW


Offline ferret

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Reply #165 on: July 24, 2008, 10:21:50 AM
Ok ok, you got me there, I'm really aggressive here, that is because CERTAIN PEOPLE try their best to twist every word a member of the staff writes around twice and make their own interpretations here which turn into stupid accusations.


Quote
I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean she wasn't. This is a big board and people can send PMs here. And from what I recall she's been called names "in the good ol days" as well. And yes, she made a bunch of mistakes as an admin but uh, when was the last time she terrorized you, MD?

RIP


Offline Matthias

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Reply #166 on: July 24, 2008, 10:23:38 AM
pissing off the hide fans,

How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.

And just as a side note, "I want to fuck Yoshiki" is a statement, not a fantasy. . .

So? Still noone want's to read it *g*


And just my two cents, where is this thread going to, or what's the intention of the people to post over and over again the same things. Not taking any sides, the posts (no matter by whom) are very repetative and I really have lost what this is all about. There is a thread where Users can vote what the think about the new rules, and after that I'm sure there will be discussions about what should be changed etc... I just don't get the big drama here, really. It's just an internetforum guys, chill.



Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #167 on: July 24, 2008, 10:27:12 AM
Ok ok, you got me there, I'm really aggressive here, that is because CERTAIN PEOPLE try their best to twist every word a member of the staff writes around twice and make their own interpretations here which turn into stupid accusations.


Quote
I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean she wasn't. This is a big board and people can send PMs here. And from what I recall she's been called names "in the good ol days" as well. And yes, she made a bunch of mistakes as an admin but uh, when was the last time she terrorized you, MD?

She didn't specifically terrorize me, but she DID attempt to terrorize someone I consider a friend on this board (what with her PM to Hollywood demanding he edit his post or else) and she terrorized all hide/Yoshiki writers by throwing that shitfit in the fantext forum.



Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #168 on: July 24, 2008, 10:28:36 AM
pissing off the hide fans,

How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.

What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki



Offline Matthias

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Reply #169 on: July 24, 2008, 10:30:35 AM
pissing off the hide fans,

How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.

What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki

So? If she thinks that, that's her business I didn't say I think everything she said was right, but it just didn't piss me off.



Offline Skooter

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Reply #170 on: July 24, 2008, 10:32:13 AM
Oh God and now we're at the PN argument again...
*bangs head against the wall*

Seriously, I'm in full agreement with Matthias and Maverick on this one. This thread lost it's point a long time ago. I know the staff can't close it since you'll just be all 'omg we're being censored' and start a new one, but seriously.



Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #171 on: July 24, 2008, 10:37:49 AM
Millie, I believe you're forgetting that PanthereNoire is 46 year old woman.

I would understand your point if PN were 12 or so and got her feelings hurt from the "harassment", but uhh..she's 46. She should be able to take care of herself.

Age doesn't have shit to do with anything. Harrassing a person, young or old, is an offense. And yes, some people might be able to "take care of themselves", but NOONE wants to hear such.
And I was just taking her as an example. MD's overall attitude towards the rules seems to me like he just wants to be able to insult anyone he wants.

now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN)

WHAT THE FUCK? PANTHERE NOIRE was "terrorizing and insulting" people (note her PM to Hollywood, note her arbitrary editing of anti-JRR posts, note her chasing the Yoshiki/hide writer out of the fantext forum, note her calling legitimate news stories rumors, among other things. Sorry, but any insults she acquired were in the course of her "work" of promoting JRR, pissing off the hide fans, and trying to clean up X. You know the saying about throwing rocks at beehives? Who's "terrorizing" who, the bees who are trying to defend themselves from a pointless, sudden attack or the person who goes "hey, I'm gonna smash this with a rock?"

Yes, of course PN did some bad stuff. I think so too. (But she's stopped it for now.)
However, and I don't know how often I'll have to repeat this - one person's actions does not justify another's.
Just because she starts to pick a fight doesn't mean others have to continue it. That makes both people involved equally in the wrong.

And it feels like I've written this post before already. About 5 times. So drop it.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 10:40:07 AM by MillieQOF »



Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #172 on: July 24, 2008, 10:39:17 AM
pissing off the hide fans,

How did she do that? Well at least I wasn't pissed off by her posts about hide, and I also consider myself of being a fan of his work.

What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki

So? If she thinks that, that's her business I didn't say I think everything she said was right, but it just didn't piss me off.

It's one thing, if it's her opinion and it ends with that, but she went on about how we all need to "face the facts" and how hide was more than a "pretty man with pink hair in a magazine".

And when she was asked to prove her wild accusations, she provided this:




Look at Toshi's evil scowl at hide  :o



Offline zyymurgy

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Reply #173 on: July 24, 2008, 10:40:10 AM
OH MY GOD THERE ARE SO MANY BEES

I GUESS I BETTER KEEP THROWING ROCKS


Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #174 on: July 24, 2008, 11:54:40 AM
MD's overall attitude towards the rules seems to me like he just wants to be able to insult anyone he wants.

D'aww, that's the fucking cutest strawman I've seen in a while! Did you build it yourself or use the plans from the internet forum strawman clearinghouse? There's so many strawmen in this thread that it should be classified as a fire hazard.



Offline Sander

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Reply #175 on: July 24, 2008, 12:31:19 PM
About the poll, shouldn't we send every user a pm to vote or something? (mass pm/mail) That way maybe people who didn't follow all these threads/discussions could vote without being as biased as everyone here seems to be.
Great idea, did that now.

So you gave the staff only 48 hours to discuss the final draft of the rules before they went into use.  That says a lot right there.
Yup, because you were getting restless with lack of action from our side. And I had heard opinions on the rules during the previous 8 days, so...

And yeah, I consider quoting the exact text that darkcat was banned for to be a clear provocation and a flaunting of one's "above the law" admin status.  Let's put it this way: can you imagine how all hell would have broken loose if I (or, god forbid, MiscastDice) had posted the same thing?
Umm if you have followed this topic carefully, MD has already made at least one troll-comment... Did I say something about it? (Well, I did... But I didn't do anything)

Strikes me as like a last-ditch effort to try to swing the poll your way, given that there are already 34 votes and probably not many more active users than that-- especially considering that the poll numbers haven't changed for a day or so and time is running out.
Maybe it will swing the poll your way? And 34 users? Last time I counted ~100+ users logged in during the last 3 days.

I haven't seen Panthere being called any names (fat bitch or loser, for example) or anything like that.
Darkcat called her 'puta' once (insulting people in languages they don't speak is even worse imo). And I can perfectly see why she doesn't want to post here.

now can you respect that everyone doesn't like being terrorized and insulted (like PN)

WHAT THE FUCK? PANTHERE NOIRE was "terrorizing and insulting" people (note her PM to Hollywood, note her arbitrary editing of anti-JRR posts, note her chasing the Yoshiki/hide writer out of the fantext forum, note her calling legitimate news stories rumors, among other things.
[--]
And just as a side note, "I want to fuck Yoshiki" is a statement, not a fantasy. . .
a) Her PM to Hollywood, I wouldn't call terrorizing (unless Hollywood was really scared, which I doubt)- and she didn't edit his post about it!
b) Anti JRR posts where they weren't needed anyway. If you want to make an anti JRR topic, go ahead, make one, I allow it. But only if the accusations you make there are based on concrete facts. But oh wait, you have your own forum now! Do that there, no one will stop you there.
c) That was her opinion on fanfics, unless I'm wrong, she didn't chase you (or anyone else) out from anywhere.
d) Those 'legitimate news stories' have been wrong before.
e) Statements aren't good thread starters (specially when they are written drunk). A good thread starter is a question, a bit of new information, or a statement with the word 'discuss'.

What about the time she went on about hide killing himself because he was jealous of Toshi's relationship with Yoshiki
That was her theory. A well written one I might say. If she writes about something, she does it well, not like a certain someone, who just mentions his theories here or there without any base.

D'aww, that's the fucking cutest strawman I've seen in a while! Did you build it yourself or use the plans from the internet forum strawman clearinghouse? There's so many strawmen in this thread that it should be classified as a fire hazard.
And I thought she was dead-on right... Guess that's what happens when you don't get all this strawman thing, huh...

This is my administrator color.


Offline Uncontrol

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Reply #176 on: July 24, 2008, 12:38:11 PM
She..writes her theories well?

Did you see her "proof"? If so, you must be joking Hypno.

That picture is hard evidence? Come on, man. Say it isn't so.



Offline Sander

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Reply #177 on: July 24, 2008, 01:01:40 PM
I meant that her text is well written and she gives reasons why she thinks so...

This is my administrator color.


Offline MiscastDice

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Reply #178 on: July 24, 2008, 01:28:20 PM
Darkcat called her 'puta' once (insulting people in languages they don't speak is even worse imo). And I can perfectly see why she doesn't want to post here.

OMG SOMEONE GOT INSULTED ONCE SO WE MUST CREATE A NEW SET OF RESTRICTIVE RULES!!!! Never mind we already HAD a rule against interpersonal harassment. Never mind that the low-stress, low-drama way to handle this (since it originated from an argument between the users) wouldn't be throwing out the rules and making new rules, but would be a neutral moderator either admonishing both under the then- existing rules or, even better, trying to mediate their dispute.

There will likely always be squabbles on an active community. Punishing everyone or restricting everyone for the actions of two combatants is like instituting a "no visual keis on the premises, no swearing, no this, no that" policy in a bar because one or two peeps tend to be fight magnets or fight with each other.

Generally the best way to deal with interpersonal squabbles is to try to get the peeps involved to tolerate each other, or failing that, keep them away from each other. That an entire new set of rules would be needed for one argument between two users is laughable.

a) Her PM to Hollywood, I wouldn't call terrorizing (unless Hollywood was really scared, which I doubt)- and she didn't edit his post about it!

Whether the person is scared or not does NOT make the intent of threats any less than to terrify. As an example, let's say I open my e-mail inbox to see 30 messages saying that my wages will be garnished and my place of residence burned to the ground unless I shut up NOW. Unfortunately, someone hasn't disguised the header and a few clicks show the threat poster to be 3,000 miles away/the neighborhood crank/a 13 year old boy. Does knowing the source of the messages make them less threatening? Yes, especially if the sender is far away, can't make good on the threats, or is someone I could easily win a fight against. That, however, doesn't make the sender's intent any less threatening.

Oh and you called me stupid again. "U r a stupid-head!!!" is NOT the way to win arguments and influence people. Except maybe toward thinking you're arguing at a kindergarten level.

Insulting content removed as it's harsh violation of rule #1.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2008, 01:45:23 PM by Lucs »



Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #179 on: July 24, 2008, 01:31:29 PM
I'm not even going to bother anymore though.

FINALLY.