Question about thread deletion/removal

Hollywood · **on:** June 30, 2008, 02:52:05 AM

I've got a question about the thread deletion/removal policy. Earlier today I made a thread in the Suggestions forum, which disappeared with no explanation or word (not even a PM). I posted it again, and this time received a PM from AsukaMiyu saying that I must delete it immediately or she would. I didn't, and so she did. I'm told that the threads were moved to the mod subforum, but either way, they were removed from public view in under two hours.

I did receive a PM from Hypno after all this, and I want to thank Hypno for that, I truly appreciate it.

But I would like to ask about this publicly because it affects the whole forum, not just me. I'm asking because of this rule:

Quote

3. It is not allowed to delete or edit out anything from another persons post without a prior notice of at least 24 hours by PM, unless is in harsh violations of the rules, in which case the user must still be notified by a PM (this includes, download links, outright spam and personal messages).

I wasn't given 24 hours notice and I'm not really sure why. My post had no download links, spam or personal messages, nor did I hurl any personal insults. For reference, I've posted it here.

It's unfortunate, because I'd really like for there to be a poll where people can vote on what they think of the new rules. I think that'd be helpful for all involved, including the admins.

By the way, I'd like to request in advance that anyone replying to this post please not start up the personal attacks and not derail the thread with offtopic stuff. Thanks.

Sander · **Reply #1 on:** June 30, 2008, 04:26:43 AM

Basically the moving was done for two reasons:

1. In the previous thread about the new rules that I locked, I asked questions and such to be sent by PM. As I told you in the PM, the rules aren't final and might be changed BUT:

2. We are all kinda buisy with our Paris trips coming, so right now is hardly the time.

I'd love a poll, but after I have made a few changes to the rules. I have no idea when I can do that, but I hope it'll be soon enough.

MiscastDice · **Reply #2 on:** June 30, 2008, 06:01:51 AM

My thread in OFFTOPIC was deleted too

Matilda in Oz · **Reply #3 on:** June 30, 2008, 06:22:37 AM

More contradictions!? :shock:

If we are not told to be quiet we are told to wait, or we are told something else that serves no other purpose than to perpetuate the problems. Or we are told we are complaining too much or that there IS no problem, which in essence invalidates our input.

All else aside the core issue here, as I see it, is how feedback is treated. "Most of the time it's not WHAT you say but HOW you say it".

Whether a problem has occurred in the past, present or will occur in the future, and if there is a genuine wish to put a stop to these rifts between users and staff, I strongly suggest the leadership of this board read up on how to manage and approach people. There are plenty of websites who offer management skills training for free which can be applied to anybody, regardless of age, personality, or anything else.

This is said in a genuine attempt to help make things better, and is hopefully a more mature version of the WTF WTF I could so easily resort to.

Appreciating that most European members are now off to Paris, I don't expect this to be read any time soon, and that's fine with me.

SarahAlex · **Reply #4 on:** June 30, 2008, 06:29:21 AM

I don't know what to add because you, guys, have already said everything. Maybe just... sorry, for being offtopic again, Hypno

- MistcastDice, please, do you really think that it's necessary to use that blond silicone girl as an avatar? :wink: I loved that hide one.

MiscastDice · **Reply #5 on:** June 30, 2008, 06:31:16 AM

Quote from: "SarahAlex"

I don't know what to add because you, guys, have already said everything. Maybe just... sorry, for being offtopic again, Hypno - MistcastDice, please, do you really think that it's necessary to use that blond silicone girl as an avatar? :wink: I loved that hide one.

I'll reload the hide one soon.

Anna · **Reply #6 on:** June 30, 2008, 07:18:13 AM

Thank You for Your post, Hollywood.

Hollywood · **Reply #7 on:** June 30, 2008, 07:38:06 AM

Quote from: "Hypno"

Basically the moving was done for two reasons:

1. In the previous thread about the new rules that I locked, I asked questions and such to be sent by PM. As I told you in the PM, the rules aren't final and might be changed BUT:

2. We are all kinda buisy with our Paris trips coming, so right now is hardly the time.

I'd love a poll, but after I have made a few changes to the rules. I have no idea when I can do that, but I hope it'll be soon enough.

Thanks, but this doesn't explain why I wasn't given 24 hours notice. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think any of what I said was of the "emergency, must get rid of it immediately!" variety.

Also, I've looked on the thread about who's going to Paris, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I to understand that ferret (the admin who requested the original "New rules" thread to be locked in the first place) is not even going?

And (again please correct me if I'm wrong) am I to understand that no one is actually leaving for a few days, at least?

I'd truly like to believe that you all have the best intentions in mind, and as I said I really appreciate your PM, but something still seems to not add up here. I hope I'm just misinformed or misinterpreting things.

I understand that you're busy, and since it seems there will be some delay until you've made some changes to the rules (I also really appreciate that you mean to change them, thank you!), how about one poll now and a second after the changes are made? That could be a very valuable way to measure the effect your changes make.

And I just want to make it very clear: I don't want to seem ungrateful for your PM or your intention to change the rules, as I said I truly appreciate both, it's just that this matter of the immediate thread removal still doesn't sit right with me and was something I thought is best to discuss publicly.

ferret · **Reply #8 on:** June 30, 2008, 09:40:07 AM

Quote from: "Hollywood"

Also, I've looked on the thread about who's going to Paris, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but am I to understand that ferret (the admin who requested the original "New rules" thread to be locked in the first place) is not even going?

And (again please correct me if I'm wrong) am I to understand that no one is actually leaving for a few days, at least?

That's right, I'm not going to Paris. However, I'll be away for over a week during the period when the guys are in Paris (that's why I didn't want to go to Paris in the first place).

and from this list

Quote

Maya19
Orbis + 2
Yu~Kun + 6
hidestiny + too many Very Happy
Konata + 1
Anna + 1
Hypno
Asuka
Dusu + 1
Maverick + 3
Yzaleen
Why_am_i_here (Lucs' wife)
Lucs + 2

You can tell that some members of the staff WILL be away (and others, like me, for other reasons than Paris).

Hurley · **Reply #9 on:** June 30, 2008, 11:15:49 AM

Quote from: "MiscastDice"

My thread in OFFTOPIC was deleted too

That was because it once again included several harsh personal insults.

Hollywood · **Reply #10 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:50:40 AM

Quote from: "Unfinished"

It's hard to believe he/she's apparently 24...

Didn't think you would be the one to start with personal stuff

, but:

Quote from: "Hollywood"

By the way, I'd like to request in advance that anyone replying to this post please not start up the personal attacks and not derail the thread with offtopic stuff. Thanks.

And getting back on topic, I'm still awaiting answers from Hypno, AsukaMiyu, and/or other staff members on this:

Quote from: "Hollywood"

Thanks, but this doesn't explain why I wasn't given 24 hours notice. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think any of what I said was of the "emergency, must get rid of it immediately!" variety.

And this:

Quote from: "Hollywood"

how about one poll now and a second after the changes are made? That could be a very valuable way to measure the effect your changes make.

Not trying to be impatient here, I know you guys are busy-- but considering that Paris is coming up in a couple days, I'm hoping this won't be another case of intentional delay followed by "oops, now your post is outdated, sucks for you!".

Lucs · **Reply #11 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:58:01 AM

Quote from: "Hollywood"

And getting back on topic, I'm still awaiting answers from Hypno, AsukaMiyu, and/or other staff members on this:
Quote from: "Hollywood"
Thanks, but this doesn't explain why I wasn't given 24 hours notice. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think any of what I said was of the "emergency, must get rid of it immediately!" variety.

And this:
Quote from: "Hollywood"
how about one poll now and a second after the changes are made? That could be a very valuable way to measure the effect your changes make.

I can't answer to the first quote, but I think the idea of making a poll now and another after could be a good idea.

MiscastDice · **Reply #12 on:** July 01, 2008, 08:52:57 PM

Quote from: "Unfinished"

It's hard to believe he/she's apparently 24...

It's hard to believe PanthereNoire is 47.

SarahAlex · **Reply #13 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:25:19 PM

So, here we are, MistcastDice is 24, PanthereNoire is 47, I'm 20 - now, when we supplied the "How old are you?" thread, can we move on and be a little ONtopic?

VioletCamicat · **Reply #14 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:35:17 PM

Could you please stop the fuck ranting and respect the following?

Quote from: "Hollywood"

By the way, I'd like to request in advance that anyone replying to this post please not start up the personal attacks and not derail the thread with offtopic stuff. Thanks.

I could also mention all the things I don't believe about you, MD - but let's just stay on topic, please!
Every personal issues should be left out here! Why isn't that possible?! You can use other possibilities to show your frustration, blog, messenger, what ever. Farting it out in a discussion which is actually meant to be serious and reasonable is really weak!

On topic: I'd also like a poll. Not for keeping this drama, but just for requesting the opinions of the users here, since they're all part of the community. Looking forward to that... And I hope that there will take part as much users as possible. The frequently posting members are by now rather a minority.

Anna · **Reply #15 on:** July 01, 2008, 09:41:10 PM

For the poll, too.

MiscastDice · **Reply #16 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:15:27 PM

Quote from: "VioletCamicat"

I could also mention all the things I don't believe about you, MD -

All the things you don't believe about me? What the fuck? I can prove where I live, I can prove the concerts I've been to, I can prove my age. If there's anything else you need me to prove. . . :roll:

Hollywood · **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:32:06 PM

Camicat already said to stay on topic. Don't derail this thread into even more offtopic shit, thanks.

Quote from: "Moi"

By the way, I'd like to request in advance that anyone replying to this post please not start up the personal attacks and not derail the thread with offtopic stuff. Thanks.

MiscastDice · **Reply #18 on:** July 01, 2008, 10:34:03 PM

Quote from: "Hollywood"

Camicat already said to stay on topic. Don't derail this thread into even more offtopic shit, thanks.
Quote from: "Moi"
By the way, I'd like to request in advance that anyone replying to this post please not start up the personal attacks and not derail the thread with offtopic stuff. Thanks.

Sorry. :oops: *bows*

Sander · **Reply #19 on:** July 10, 2008, 10:58:18 AM

Quote from: "Hollywood"

Thanks, but this doesn't explain why I wasn't given 24 hours notice. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think any of what I said was of the "emergency, must get rid of it immediately!" variety.

In this case, the 24 hour notice would have been basically useless, as the point was not to have that poll now, and in 24 hours most of the people could have voted anyway.

Quote from: "Hollywood"

how about one poll now and a second after the changes are made? That could be a very valuable way to measure the effect your changes make.

I haven't checked all the new posts yet, maybe you already did the before poll, but if you haven't, I don't think it'll be necessary, as everyone is back now and we'll start working on the rules again.

Quote from: "Uncontrol"

Bannings have gone up 200%. rofl.

From 0 to 2, isn't that like infinite %? Because 0*2 is still 0... Or something... I think I need to ask my math teacher or something

Quote from: "Hollywood"

*stuff about much mods and such*

Well, Camicat said it all basically. I also like to have more moderators, which means less work for everyone and a more democratic feeling, as we'd have more opinions.

Quote from: "Hollywood and Hypno"

1. PN is adminned.
2. PN supposedly abuses her admin powers.
3. People get pissed.
4. New rules, which were needed anyway, are created.
5. Some people get pissed, most agree to try out the new rules and stop complaining.
6. MiscastDice's pissedness leads to his inappropriate behavior.
7. MiscastDice is banned.

Fixed.

darkcat21 · **Reply #20 on:** July 10, 2008, 11:00:28 AM

Quote

2. PN supposedly abuses her admin powers.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Lucs · **Reply #21 on:** July 10, 2008, 11:00:55 AM

Quote from: "Hypno"

Quote from: "Uncontrol"
Bannings have gone up 200%. rofl.
From 0 to 2, isn't that like infinite %? Because 0*2 is still 0... Or something... I think I need to ask my math teacher or something

You're right, it's not 200%, it's infinite% which no human can imagine what it represents.

Hollywood · **Reply #22 on:** July 10, 2008, 05:44:20 PM

I waited the two weeks for you as you wanted, Hypno, and this is the thanks I get? The usual contradictions and "shut up" stuff and a little mockery at the end? Nice. :roll:

Quote from: "Hypno"

Quote from: "Hollywood"
Thanks, but this doesn't explain why I wasn't given 24 hours notice. Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't think any of what I said was of the "emergency, must get rid of it immediately!" variety.

In this case, the 24 hour notice would have been basically useless, as the point was not to have that poll now, and in 24 hours most of the people could have voted anyway.

So, the thought of people expressing their opinions in a constructive and helpful way was such an emergency that it needed to be gotten rid of immediately before anyone could do so? I'm sorry to hear that.

Quote from: "Hypno"

Quote from: "Hollywood"
how about one poll now and a second after the changes are made? That could be a very valuable way to measure the effect your changes make.
I haven't checked all the new posts yet, maybe you already did the before poll, but if you haven't, I don't think it'll be necessary, as everyone is back now and we'll start working on the rules again.

I haven't. I was waiting for you, as you wanted. So now that I've waited for you, I'm being told if I wanted to do the poll I should've NOT waited for you, and that I won't be allowed to conduct the poll now? (I wonder: what would have happened if I had gone ahead and done the poll rather than waiting for you? I can't help but assume it would've been deleted again, and again with no 24-hours notice, because I didn't wait. :roll:)

I would still like to conduct the "before" poll. Judging by the response to this thread, there are others-- both normal users and mods-- who would like this too. Do you object to this?

For that matter, you've mentioned that you want to create a global photo disclaimer for the forum and add a restricted forum for Yoshiki Mobile messages. If you want to do these things, why haven't you? You clearly have time to create new forums (Forum Games and now T-Earth), and to explain at length about the YM situation. Honestly, what's taking so long? In the time you've spent explaining why you haven't done these things yet, you could have done them about ten times.

Quote from: "Hypno"

Quote from: "Hollywood"
*stuff about much mods and such*
Well, Camicat said it all basically. I also like to have more moderators, which means less work for everyone and a more democratic feeling, as we'd have more opinions.

Opinions which you seem to continually disregard if they don't match your own. There are mods on this thread who would like to see polls about the rules.

Quote from: "Hypno"

Quote from: "Hollywood and Hypno"

1. PN is adminned.
2. PN supposedly abuses her admin powers.

You'll need to make up your mind on this one. You have said in the past that if she screws up again she'll be dealt with, which means that according to you she HAS screwed up before.

Quote from: "Hypno"

Quote from: "Hollywood and Hypno"

3. People get pissed.
4. New rules, which were needed anyway, are created.
5. Some people get pissed, most agree to try out the new rules and stop complaining.
6. MiscastDice's pissedness leads to his inappropriate behavior.
7. MiscastDice is banned.
Fixed.

I don't see why you feel the continual need to be rude in your replies, especially after I politely answered your PMs and waited for you on the poll situation. If you'd like to be respected as an adult, I'd advise you to start behaving like one.

Madjhatter · **Reply #23 on:** July 10, 2008, 05:52:49 PM

Quote from: "Hollywood and Hypno"

4. New rules, which were needed anyway, are created.
5. Some people get pissed, most agree to try out the new rules and stop complaining.

Try em out and work with them sure, still doesn't mean that they were needed, nor liked very much.

Sander · **Reply #24 on:** July 10, 2008, 06:02:50 PM

Quote from: "Hollywood"

For that matter, you've mentioned that you want to create a global photo disclaimer for the forum and add a restricted forum for Yoshiki Mobile messages. If you want to do these things, why haven't you? You clearly have time to create new forums (Forum Games and now T-Earth), and to explain at length about the YM situation. Honestly, what's taking so long? In the time you've spent explaining why you haven't done these things yet, you could have done them about ten times.

No, I said I thought about them. And I am still thinking AND discussing them in the mods subforum. Changing the rules and adding a new subforum for a new project are two different things.

Quote from: "Hollywood"

I don't see why you feel the continual need to be rude in your replies, especially after I politely answered your PMs and waited for you on the poll situation. If you'd like to be respected as an adult, I'd advise you to start behaving like one.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be rude, maybe I expressed myself in a wrong way... Really, I didn't mean to be rude, disrespectful or anything

We will probably discuss the current situation with the rules a bit more and get back to you in a few days? That is, should we change anything and so, what and how we should change. Would that be fine with you?