X Freaks Forum

News:

  • Welcome to the X FREAKS forum!
    Please read the rules :)
  • X-freaks.com - online since 2006, the biggest (un)official international X JAPAN forum on the Web
  • Read the latest forum news here!

Suggestion: let people talk

Hollywood · 28783

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ryo-Ohki

  • Fan
  • ***
    • Posts: 463
    • View Profile
Reply #210 on: June 05, 2008, 06:16:38 PM
Quote from: "ferret"
Quote from: "Hollywood"

Honestly, I'm not expecting much here, as I'm sure this thread will be closed so that questions like these, and the concerns of 29 other forum members, can continue to be comfortably silenced and pushed aside.  As I've said before, shutting people up is never a good way to solve problems.  Usually it just makes things even worse.  (And yes, "I'm closing this thread, go rant about it on myspace" absolutely does qualify as shutting people up.)


Pushed aside? How? If we were pushing the 2 threads on this topic aside there would be no new rules, the staff wouldn't have to worry about  those enormous headaches everyone seems to be having from this flood of words and complaints. Come on, this thread has no structure, everyone's throwing in what they're thinking, off topic discussions occur, some only come to leave some edgy comment about PN. Everything has been said about 6 times right now, it's like a broken record: always play the same, always play the same, always play the same.

Some people need to know what they really want: Get rid of PN as a mod/admin or have the forum be a more peaceful place. If it's the second one, good for you, we're working on that, if it's the first, well, sucks for you, maybe you should try to get used to the second idea. Some ideas here are WAY too radical, still everyone is saying they want a real democracy. I'm sorry, but with ideas like that it wouldn't be one, far from it.


That.. would work, Ferret.  If all mods, admin and users abided by said rules.  IT wouldn't work well if, say this mod said.. oh.. well.. this rule was broken.. blah blah blah..

But.. instead of someone deleting a post, it would be good to send a user a PM to say.. You have breached.. rule whatever.. please modify *This* post.  That way.. no one is sitting there scratching their heads going 'Huh?" when they come into a thread that's half deleted or modified.



This/these images are posted under the fair rights agreement. Copyright belongs to the respective owners.


Offline Sander

  • Administrator
  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3852
    • View Profile
    • X-Freaks
Reply #211 on: June 05, 2008, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
So you guys know, the list has now reached 30 users who find PN's administration to be at least partially inappropriate, and 10 users who feel that everything is just fine.
So you guys know, I don't care. I really don't. BTW: 3 to 1 ratio is big but not big enough.

Quote from: "Hollywood"
So you guys know, the list has now reached 30 users who find PN's administration to be at least partially inappropriate, and 10 users who feel that everything is just fine.

Quote from: "Hypno"
Quote from: "Hollywood"
And it's written on my Blue Blood CD that "Unauthorized duplication is a violation of applicable laws".  Yet there are unauthorized mp3s exchanged in the sharing forums (don't know if Blue Blood is there or not, just using an example).
You answered yourself. If you don't know about it, then don't say it. Straight from the rules of the Sharing Forum, the first two lines (at least check those rules if you post about it):

Quote
Welcome to the downloads subforum. This is a place created for all X Japan fans to share their rare X stuff. Yup, RARE. Things that are on sale in well-reachable places like amazon.com, for example the Blue Blood and Jealousy re-releases (and originals), The Last Live DVD rips and so on are not allowed here.

Hypno, there's no need to be overly pedantic: as I said, I was using an example.  Every single studio track being shared in that forum, whatever they are and regardless of how "rare" they are, has been ripped from a CD with something very similar written on it.  I do not personally have any moral problem whatsoever with sharing out of print stuff, that's not my point.  My point is this: you are sharing copyrighted material.  It is, thus, an enormous double-standard for you to forbid the posting of Yoshiki Mobile messages due to copyright/non-disclosure issues while you freely encourage the sharing of copyrighted material elsewhere in the forum.
I'm not overly pedantic. I don't care if you use it as an example or not. I really don't. It was a wrong example and you could and should have checked it yourself. And yeah, it's a double-standard. I can make it a triple-standard if I want. And that 'elsewhere in the forum' is really elsewhere. It's for certain people only.

Quote from: "Hollywood"
And for the third time now-- actually, the fifth or sixth time, if I remember correctly, on some of these-- I would like answers to the following questions.
I will, as I have nothing better to do with my life at the moment anyway. Of course there aren't a million other things I'd rather be doing now than to read through 10 pages of the same stuff said over and over again in ever growing posts.

Quote from: "Hollywood"
- Considering that there's a forum here where you can share copyrighted music, how is posting a Yoshiki Mobile message somehow worse than that?  Copyrighted music is also "strictly for fans who pay for the service" (or the goods, in this case).
- What are "restricted sources" and where is the rule about not posting anything based on them?  Relatedly: when did this become an official forum?
- How many incidents of post editing/deletion due solely to JRR-related conflicts of interest (see my first post on page five of this thread) do there need to be before anyone notices a problem?
-It is my decision to allow sharing of out-of-pring and not-yet-released material. It is also my decision not to allow YM messages right now. If you have any problems with those decisions, then this is not the thread to post them.
-What restricted sources? I don't remember everything posted on this forum, specially in this thread. Please point them down to me and I will answer (via PM if you don't make it before this thread closes). Relatedly: This hasn't been, is or will be in the near future an official forum.
-It depends on the person. Some don't see a problem when it hits them in the face, others see hundreds where there are none. Relatedly: We are not JRR-related, save some people who are users (and mods/admins) on both sites. Relatedly #2: You can make your post the first in a link when you change the number in start='number' in the link to your posts number (in this case your post is 116th.

Quote from: "Hollywood"
About whether or not photos can be posted outside the sharing subforum: whoever is or isn't deleting/moving the photos, this "rule" is clearly not being consistently enforced. There are plenty of visible threads, both old and new, with photos in them. Can I ask where the "no photos outside the sharing subforum" rule is written down, by the way? Because I can't remember seeing that... anywhere. I know there are galleries in there, but I can't find any rule that says no photos are to be posted outside of those. Am I looking in the wrong place?
Yes it is not (are we still as strict as JRR?). It's not written as a rule, but you can read here that pictures/galleries subforum were moved to the sharing part of the forum. (As you see- the rules are a mess. You don't know what is a rule and I barely do. Still think we don't need to clean them up?)

Quote from: "Hollywood"
Could a list be posted of the times when PN deleted, edited, or requested the edit of a post which was in violation of the publicly-posted X Freaks rules at the time she deleted the post? I'm just asking because I don't remember any of the posts she edited/deleted having been in violation of any posted (at the time) rules.
No, unless someone other than me does it. I don't have the time, really.

Quote from: "Hollywood"
Still waiting for those "several other board members" (who weren't mentioned nor even implied in the PM that PN sent me) to step forward and tell me about how they're offended by multiorgasmic death-sex...
I'm not one of them. I found your phrase to be cool and awesome. Really (and I'm really not shitting you here).

Quote from: "Hollywood"
Honestly, I'm not expecting much here, as I'm sure this thread will be closed so that questions like these, and the concerns of 29 other forum members, can continue to be comfortably silenced and pushed aside. As I've said before, shutting people up is never a good way to solve problems. Usually it just makes things even worse. (And yes, "I'm closing this thread, go rant about it on myspace" absolutely does qualify as shutting people up.)
If you don't expect much here (I don't either, this thread sux imo), then expect something from the new rules which will be implemented on Monday. This thread will be closed so that when I get back (from where, you don't need to know) on Sunday, I don't first have to spend a few hours going through the same stuff again. The concerns of all the forum members who have spoken here or elsewhere have been taken into consideration. I haven't shut you up for a long enough time now. (And yes, "I'm closing this thread, go rant about it on myspace", which I never said (I meant something like MSN/PMs/Skype/pubnights really) qualifies as shutting people up here, which is all in my intentions.

This is my administrator color.


Offline Belle & Sebastian

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Reply #212 on: June 05, 2008, 06:40:29 PM
if i was panthere noire, i would have stepped down myself by now, considering this whole situation here lol :roll:



Offline Sander

  • Administrator
  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3852
    • View Profile
    • X-Freaks
Reply #213 on: June 05, 2008, 06:42:54 PM
If I was PanthereNoire, I would send Hypno Pocky from Japan...

This is my administrator color.


Offline ferret

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3557
    • View Profile
Reply #214 on: June 05, 2008, 06:46:13 PM
But you aren't, so she/you won't...or will she/you? This thread is killing mah brain.

RIP


Offline Lucs

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1478
    • View Profile
    • Xploson
Reply #215 on: June 05, 2008, 07:00:59 PM
If I were Panthere Noire, I would have put a Panthere Noire in my avatar and not a leopard :D

Sorry I had to do it :D lol !

Hypno I totally agree with everything you said and I think it's the best way to deal with this whole thing.

It seems like some people don't want things to go better, they just want to say how much they hate PN and that's all....


Offline Hollywood

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/363181252
Reply #216 on: June 05, 2008, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: "Hypno"
Quote from: "Hollywood"
So you guys know, the list has now reached 30 users who find PN's administration to be at least partially inappropriate, and 10 users who feel that everything is just fine.
So you guys know, I don't care. I really don't. BTW: 3 to 1 ratio is big but not big enough.

Oh... so you don't care what 30 of your forum users think?  Considering the small size of this forum, that's a very large chunk of your members.  Those are 30 active users who generate a large amount of content and activity for your forum.  It would be nice to think that, when a large portion of a very small forum are all saying the same thing, the owner of the forum would care.  Guess not?  I appreciate your honesty anyhow.

Quote from: "Hypno"
And yeah, it's a double-standard. I can make it a triple-standard if I want. And that 'elsewhere in the forum' is really elsewhere. It's for certain people only.

Well, here it is, then, everyone: double-standards are considered perfectly acceptable on X Freaks.  Nice to know.  Again, thank you Hypno for your honestly.

Quote from: "Hypno"
-What restricted sources? I don't remember everything posted on this forum, specially in this thread. Please point them down to me and I will answer (via PM if you don't make it before this thread closes).

"Restricted sources" is a phrase used by PN on this thread:
http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2402
The one where she edits the Yoshiki Mobile post.

Quote from: "Hypno"
-It depends on the person. Some don't see a problem when it hits them in the face, others see hundreds where there are none. Relatedly: We are not JRR-related, save some people who are users (and mods/admins) on both sites.

Considering this and what you said about double-standards being acceptable, I suppose I am to assume that this means X Freaks mods/admins who are also JRR mods/admins are free to enforce JRR rules (which do not exist on X Freaks) on this board as they see fit.  If that's the case, thank you again for your honesty.

Quote from: "Hypno"
It's not written as a rule, but you can read here that pictures/galleries subforum were moved to the sharing part of the forum. (As you see- the rules are a mess. You don't know what is a rule and I barely do. Still think we don't need to clean them up?)

If it's not a written rule, why is it being enforced?  I know that the galleries were moved, but why then are some non-gallery posts with photos deleted but others are not?  Oh, sorry, forgot-- because double-standards are acceptable on X Freaks.  Gotcha.

Quote from: "Hypno"
Quote from: "Hollywood"
Could a list be posted of the times when PN deleted, edited, or requested the edit of a post which was in violation of the publicly-posted X Freaks rules at the time she deleted the post? I'm just asking because I don't remember any of the posts she edited/deleted having been in violation of any posted (at the time) rules.
No, unless someone other than me does it. I don't have the time, really.

That pretty much speaks for itself.

Quote from: "Hypno"
Quote from: "Hollywood"
Still waiting for those "several other board members" (who weren't mentioned nor even implied in the PM that PN sent me) to step forward and tell me about how they're offended by multiorgasmic death-sex...
I'm not one of them. I found your phrase to be cool and awesome. Really (and I'm really not shitting you here).

OK, thanks.

Quote from: "Hypno"
(And yes, "I'm closing this thread, go rant about it on myspace", which I never said (I meant something like MSN/PMs/Skype/pubnights really) qualifies as shutting people up here, which is all in my intentions.

Sorry, mis-paraphrased you on the myspace thing then, my mistake.

So, let me get this straight: not only is PN allowed to do as she will, adhering to whatever double-standard she wants, but now we're forbidden from so much as pointing out (on X Freaks) when she does so?

Sorry, but this situation has now become truly ridiculous.

EDITED because I fucked up some quote tags.

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline AsukaMiyu

  • Administrator
  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1828
    • View Profile
    • Xplosion Online
Reply #217 on: June 05, 2008, 07:02:17 PM
................................

Sorry, that was only my dead brain XP
And Sander, are you okay with me brining you Pocky at least? :P

@Le.Pilote please don't make comments like that -_-;

...When the morning begins
I'll be in the next chapter...


Offline Belle & Sebastian

  • Sunday Listener
  • **
    • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Reply #218 on: June 05, 2008, 07:11:12 PM
why not



Offline SarahAlex

  • Big fan
  • ****
    • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
    • MySpace
Reply #219 on: June 05, 2008, 07:13:27 PM
Maybe I used to watch Star Trek too much and I became as weird as Deanna Troi but:
Quote from: "Hypno"
So you guys know, I don't care. I really don't.

this sounds only tired + desperate to me...

Quote from: "Hypno"
And yeah, it's a double-standard. I can make it a triple-standard if I want.

... and this looks like a sentence from a person who was hurt somehow.

That's why it didn't make me upset. But as I said perhaps I'm only naive. :wink:


SarahAlex - the devil's advocate


Offline Sander

  • Administrator
  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3852
    • View Profile
    • X-Freaks
Reply #220 on: June 05, 2008, 07:13:58 PM
Quote from: "Lucs"
If I were Panthere Noire, I would have put a Panthere Noire in my avatar and not a leopard :D
Panthere noire= black panther.

Wikipedia says: A black panther is a black (melanistic) color variant of one of several species of larger cat which are often known by the term panther. "Panther" in North America is most commonly used for the cougar (genus Puma), in Latin America it is most often used to mean a jaguar and elsewhere in the world it usually refers to the leopard (both genus Panthera). Panthers are not necessarily black, but may also be normally colored for the species (tawny or spotted), or white.


So a leopard is acceptable :P

This is my administrator color.


Offline darkcat21

  • Big fan
  • ****
    • Posts: 1064
    • View Profile
Reply #221 on: June 05, 2008, 07:15:13 PM
Quote
Anyway, as reading most of this gives me a headache already, I think I'm going to close this thread this evening (just saying, so some of you can have your last words or shit like that). Now, you might think that's censoring or restricting your democratic rights... But it isn't. I'm not forbidding you to talk about it. I can, and will, however, (for the time being at least) forbid it here. If anyone disagrees with it, PM me, I'll send you the account numbers where you can transfer money for the next 3 months of hosting this forum, and I'll allow you to talk about it for those three months (only you and max 3 friends who you'll select at the beginning of the 3 months). If you don't like that idea, start a diary or use different means of communication to discuss the topic at hand.

this is STUPID

hi there


Offline ferret

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3557
    • View Profile
Reply #222 on: June 05, 2008, 07:18:46 PM
Quote from: "SarahAlex"

That's why it didn't make me upset.


I can't believe people actually took everything he wrote seriously/literally. But I laughed, so it's all good.

RIP


Offline VioletCamicat

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1261
  • Beware of the toxic kitten!
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/violet_camicat
Reply #223 on: June 05, 2008, 07:19:06 PM
Quote from: "Hypno"
So a leopard is acceptable :P

:P But not a spotted! HA!

mod mode

And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
"Smile and be happy - it could have become worse!"
So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse


Offline SarahAlex

  • Big fan
  • ****
    • Posts: 600
    • View Profile
    • MySpace
Reply #224 on: June 05, 2008, 07:23:59 PM
Quote from: "ferret"
I can't believe people actually took everything he wrote seriously/literally. But I laughed, so it's all good.


I said I might be naive. But you know, I also "don't care". :wink: You can think about me that I'm not able to recognize a joke or sarcasm, that I'm too pathetic, whatever. This is just how I felt about that post, take it or leave it. :)


SarahAlex - the devil's advocate


Offline Hollywood

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 1492
    • View Profile
    • http://www.myspace.com/363181252
Reply #225 on: June 05, 2008, 07:25:13 PM
Quote from: "ferret"
I can't believe people actually took everything he wrote seriously/literally. But I laughed, so it's all good.

Well, when the forum is full of double-standards-- which are clearly considered acceptable, or something would be done about them-- and then the forum owner says that double-standards are acceptable, I think one can be forgiven for missing out on the irony there. :P

color=darkred]STAND UP!  FUCK UP![/color]


Offline ferret

  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3557
    • View Profile
Reply #226 on: June 05, 2008, 07:30:17 PM
Quote from: "SarahAlex"
Quote from: "ferret"
I can't believe people actually took everything he wrote seriously/literally. But I laughed, so it's all good.


I said I might be naive. But you know, I also "don't care". :wink: You can think about me that I'm not able to recognize a joke or sarcasm, that I'm too pathetic, whatever. This is just how I felt about that post, take it or leave it. :)


I was agreeing with you, actually :wink:

@Hollywood: I've never seen Hypno loose his temper like that, EVER. Of course he'd say things to piss you off even more.

RIP


Offline Sander

  • Administrator
  • Die-hard fan
  • *****
    • Posts: 3852
    • View Profile
    • X-Freaks
Reply #227 on: June 05, 2008, 07:40:24 PM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
Quote from: "Hypno"
-What restricted sources? I don't remember everything posted on this forum, specially in this thread. Please point them down to me and I will answer (via PM if you don't make it before this thread closes).

"Restricted sources" is a phrase used by PN on this thread:
http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2402
The one where she edits the Yoshiki Mobile post.
Ah, by restricted source she means that YM users agreement doesn't allow it to be reposted.

Quote from: "Hollywood"
Quote from: "Hypno"
-It depends on the person. Some don't see a problem when it hits them in the face, others see hundreds where there are none. Relatedly: We are not JRR-related, save some people who are users (and mods/admins) on both sites.

Considering this and what you said about double-standards being acceptable, I suppose I am to assume that this means X Freaks mods/admins who are also JRR mods/admins are free to enforce JRR rules (which do not exist on X Freaks) on this board as they see fit.  If that's the case, thank you again for your honesty.
Double-standards are acceptable as long as I find them acceptable. And right now there are no rules that forbid that, are there? What isn't disallowed is allowed, right? Right now, the moderators/admins have that power (unless I disagree of course).

Quote from: "Hollywood"
So, let me get this straight: not only is PN allowed to do as she will, adhering to whatever double-standard she wants, but now we're forbidden from so much as pointing out (on X Freaks) when she does so?
Almost. Right now (without the new rules), PN is allowed to do as she will as long as I'm ok with it. And you are by all means allowed to point out where she has done so. Did anyone say anything otherwise?

Quote from: "Hollywood"
Sorry, but this situation has now become truly ridiculous.
Sux, huh? This situation and my answers right now are like that thanks to this thread of endless rivers full of novel-length posts that say pretty much the same and go off-topic from time to time. What should we do? Oh yeah, I know! Let's close this thread and give full permission to mods and admins to delete every thread like this that might sprout up in the next 4 days (that is, until new rules have been implemented). If anyone has anything new they want to say to me, they can contact me in various ways. If you still feel pissed about anything that slightly relates to this thread, take a vacation of say, 5 days from this forum.



And Asu-chan, yes you can bring me Pocky :)


Quote from: "SarahAlex"
Maybe I used to watch Star Trek too much and I became as weird as Deanna Troi but:
Quote from: "Hypno"
So you guys know, I don't care. I really don't.

this sounds only tired + desperate to me...

Quote from: "Hypno"
And yeah, it's a double-standard. I can make it a triple-standard if I want.

... and this looks like a sentence from a person who was hurt somehow.

That's why it didn't make me upset. But as I said perhaps I'm only naive. :wink:
I'm tired and desperate... And my leg did start hurting today for a bit for no apparent reason... Don't worry, you aren't naive :) Here at least :P

Quote from: "darkcat21"
Quote
*Hypno's post about people sending him money to be able to discuss this stuff here*

this is STUPID
Actually it was meant as a joke...

Quote from: "Babak"
Is it fun being a strict admin? Is it fun seeing this as a burden? Why can't you guys (admins and moderators) just relax for a bit and actually enjoy your stay here. The only people that you need to keep your eyes on are spammers, people getting into heated arguments or people spreading dumb rumors as actual facts (heh, no names given).
I think it might actually be fun... But if I'd do it any more I'm afraid some people would leave... Why can't you guys just relax a bit and enjoy your stay here, and wait for the new rules that (unless this thread turns my brains into mush before) should make sure no one is ruining your fun here. For the note, I plan to lessen the stricter rules (written or not) implemented here right now.

Quote from: "Babak"
Quit playing gods, you're not. I respect you for accepting the fact to be in charge of the forums, but ffs - give the divine bull a break. Have fun and break some freaking rules, no one will kill you for that.
I didn't quite get it, I'm the divine bull? I sure hope so because I sure need a break. And please, don't really brake the rules much... It will make the admins and mods into a sad panda :cry:

Quote from: "ferret"
@Hollywood: I've never seen Hypno loose his temper like that, EVER. Of course he'd say things to piss you off even more.
I don't think I ever have either. This thread is generating replies faster than I can answer them, which is one of the reasons it needs to stop, specially as I'll be away for 2 days and I don't want to have a million new posts here, all at least ten lines long and whatnot.



So,


Thanks to everyone who contributed their original and not-so-original ideas and thoughts to this thread, everyone who supported me and the staff (ferret, Millie, Lucs, everyone else who thought we should wait for the new rules and continue discussing then). As I mentioned above, I will close this thread and hereby give full permission to mods and admins to delete every thread like this that might sprout up in the next 4 days (that is, until new rules have been implemented) and if anyone keeps on breaking this rule, they have the license to ban. If anyone has anything new they want to say to me, they can contact me, or a moderator/admin of their choice in various ways. If you still feel pissed about anything that slightly relates to this thread, take a vacation of say, 5 days from this forum.

This is my administrator color.