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hide and Lillian Gish

Matilda in Oz · 3623

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Offline Matilda in Oz

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on: May 21, 2008, 04:09:05 PM
Is there anyone else who has noticed how often hide paid tribute to Lillian Gish? He pretty much stopped doing that after he had his hair cut short as then he changed his makeup, posing modes and even the way he walked. But before that.

(Edit: Lillian Gish died in February 1993, at the age of 99.)



Offline Sander

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Reply #1 on: May 21, 2008, 04:55:31 PM
Who is Lillian Gish?

EDIT: Lillian Diana Gish (October 14, 1893 – February 27, 1993), was an American stage, screen and televison actress whose film acting career spanned 75 years, from 1912 to 1987. She was a prominent film star of the 1910s and 1920s, particularly associated with the films of director D.W. Griffith, including her leading role in Griffith's seminal Birth of a Nation (1915). Her sound-era film appearances were sporadic, but included a memorable role in the 1955 cult thriller Night of the Hunter. She did considerable television work from the early 1950s into the 1980s, and closed her career playing opposite Bette Davis in the 1987 film The Whales of August.

The American Film Institute (AFI) named Gish 17th among the greatest female stars of all time. She was awarded an Honorary Academy Award in 1971, and in 1984 she received an AFI Life Achievement Award.

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Offline Sirimono

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Reply #2 on: May 21, 2008, 05:57:29 PM
I haven't noticed any tribute to her. Would be great if you could explain in what way he put tribute to her and when.



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Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #3 on: May 21, 2008, 06:23:09 PM
I do see a bit of similarities in the make-up, but not so much more than that.
When you start a topic like this, please be a little more specific.



Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #4 on: May 22, 2008, 12:14:51 AM
Quote from: "MillieQOF"
When you start a topic like this, please be a little more specific.


Millie, before I respond properly, first I would like to know if you are a Forum Administrator, please.



Offline matsumoto

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Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 09:55:53 AM
I honestly can't see any possible connection between the two. Lillian was in her 90s when hide hit stardom, I can't imagine such an old lady inspiring a 20 year old rocker.

Probably the Lillian Gish he credited was somebody else with the same name, I suppose.

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Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 10:51:03 AM
Quote from: "matsumoto"
I honestly can't see any possible connection between the two. Lillian was in her 90s when hide hit stardom, I can't imagine such an old lady inspiring a 20 year old rocker.

Probably the Lillian Gish he credited was somebody else with the same name, I suppose.


I can imagine it. hide did a lot of pantomime on stage, and even called his first photo book Mugongeki (pantomime). I think it wouldn't at all be impossible if he was inspired by the silent movies. I'm talking about a YOUNG Lillian Gish here, the young woman in the movies made a hundred years ago.

Did you actually see him credit her name somewhere? Wow, can I please please have that reference or link or wherever you saw it.



Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 10:57:24 AM
Quote from: "Sirimono"
I haven't noticed any tribute to her. Would be great if you could explain in what way he put tribute to her and when.


Of course. Yes, I should, although I'd rather prefer that everone goes off and discovers for themselves. But ok, I am trying to put something together here. I'll do my best to post something later today. I mean, these are similarities that I have noticed over some time and at random, so I don't exactly have a PowerPoint essay presentation at the ready *LOL.

I honestly didn't expect everyone's response to be a "NOO...?". I had hoped there would be at least some film school student or film history buff instantly screaming "YES, I have seen it too" and help me out. I'm so lazy!



Offline Sirimono

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Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 11:56:37 AM
Well it's a little hard to expect that people who have either never heard of Lillian Gish or even if they did never had any education on movies (at least i don't know any film student here) to find clues themselves.

If you want our ideas on your findings you should come up with pictures/movies by hide and explain how they are connected to her.

I mean, one really good thing about this forum is that people are damn sceptic about such things. And even if he was inspired by the style of early 1900 silent movies, it doesn't have to be EXACTLY Lillian Gish.

So it might have been better if you started a thread on hide's references to that style and explain why you think that he referred to that style instead of just throwing an assumption at us imo.

On the other hand, i haven't ever heard of her before and I guess most people didn't. So an introduction to who she is would have been nice too...

we're not say "NOO?" we just haven't noticed it ourselves before, which you can't expect from people without education in that matter, so it's just sensible to explain what you found before asking if other people see that too



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Offline ferret

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Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 12:21:58 PM
Quote from: "Matilda in Oz"
Quote from: "MillieQOF"
When you start a topic like this, please be a little more specific.


Millie, before I respond properly, first I would like to know if you are a Forum Administrator, please.


No, she's not, now spill the details  :P

RIP


Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 12:56:39 PM
I apologise if I used the word "expected". It's not what I meant. I did mean that I was "hoping" someone would have picked up on this so I wouldn't feel alone. That's why I asked the question in the first place, because I'm not 100% sure that I'm right. I could be hallucinating, for all I know, but I thought it interesting enough to at least DISCUSS. NOT PROVE. I'm not out to prove anything, I like TALKING.

As for how I should start a thread, well, I thought I'd throw the question out first, and if I'd get lot's of nos I was all systems go to write a really nice little intro to the silent movies and what I've noticed being used by other J-rockers. Malice Mizer were clearly inspired by the silents for example, they did that Nosferatu shadow on the wall! But somehow when I get people trying to boss me around and telling me how to write a intro post and what to consider and etc, that old laziness sets in real fast. Amazing, isn't it!

Gee whiz...

The problem is that when someone is mimicking someone else, like I strongly believe hide did, it can be very subtle and difficult to prove, so instead of me posting still photos as proofs that I'm right I'll change that to asking again "Has anyone else noticed.......?"

If noone has, well.... end of thread, I guess. If anyone's still interested, watch Lillian Gish's movies on youtube as it's far better to see her in motion and then compare, than looking at stills.

I must be a dinasour, using a way of talking that seems to infuriate people here. Is it just me, or are a lot of people here unbelievably agressive? You guys have no idea how docile I am. Think Pata's cat!  That's why it's incomprehensible to me that I have to defend almost every syllable I utter. Be nice! I thought I was, but I might just be dreaming.

*exhausted*



Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 01:19:25 PM
Quote from: "ferret"
Quote from: "Matilda in Oz"
Quote from: "MillieQOF"
When you start a topic like this, please be a little more specific.


Millie, before I respond properly, first I would like to know if you are a Forum Administrator, please.


No, she's not, now spill the details  :P


Thanks, ferret!

Ah, well, I think I've said enough already. My intention in the past week has been that I'd add something a bit different to the usual fangirl/boy talk, but on second thought I think I'll rather find somewhere warm to have a cup of tea and a snooze.  8)



Offline Hurley

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Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 01:32:11 PM
Quote from: "Matilda in Oz"
Ah, well, I think I've said enough already. My intention in the past week has been that I'd add something a bit different to the usual fangirl/boy talk, but on second thought I think I'll rather find somewhere warm to have a cup of tea and a snooze.  8)

Oh come on. Dont get offended just cause some people want it to be like an official scientific study. I think new points of view are always much more interesting than the usual fangirl/boy talk, even if you dont really have data to prove it.


Offline Sirimono

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Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 01:45:05 PM
well kids i thought we all should have learned in school how to explain our ideas and interpretations of people/movies/music etc.

It's not about proving, it's about explaining your point of view and describe the reasons why you see it that way.

I've never seen someone getting so offended at people not understanding their point when they're not even trying to explain their point to them.

So, well yeah, if you won't tell us why you've seen such in his behaviour, i guess it's the end of the topic. How pointless. It'd interest me though in what way he could've adapted that... oh well



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Offline nage

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Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 02:11:46 PM
Quote from: "Sirimono"
well kids i thought we all should have learned in school how to explain our ideas and interpretations of people/movies/music etc.

They're teaching this in SCHOOLS? I envy you then....  :?


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Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 02:20:00 PM
Sirimono, don't they also teach in schools that BULLYING people into sharing their wisdom never works?



Offline Sirimono

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Reply #16 on: May 22, 2008, 02:30:54 PM
Quote from: "nage"
Quote from: "Sirimono"
well kids i thought we all should have learned in school how to explain our ideas and interpretations of people/movies/music etc.

They're teaching this in SCHOOLS? I envy you then....  :?


yeah it's basically all we gotta do in exam... explain our views, share our opinions and try to give examples for what we think have found.
We don't get grades on WHAT we think but on how we present and reason it...

I don't think it's only in Germany like that >_>

anyway, I don't see any bullying around here



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Offline nage

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Reply #17 on: May 22, 2008, 02:34:07 PM
Quote from: "Sirimono"
yeah it's basically all we gotta do in exam... explain our views, share our opinions and try to give examples for what we think have found.
We don't get grades on WHAT we think but on how we present and reason it...

Nice. But it's definitely not like that here. XD We learn what we're told. Then our knowledge of the subject is examined. That's it. You know it, you pass, you don't, you fail. No opinions, no discussions.


May X be with you!


Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #18 on: May 22, 2008, 03:00:39 PM
Quote from: "Matilda in Oz"
Quote from: "MillieQOF"
When you start a topic like this, please be a little more specific.


Millie, before I respond properly, first I would like to know if you are a Forum Administrator, please.

No, I'm not an admin as you can see from the color of my name.

However, it's sort of common sense on the Internet to include a little bit of info when you start a topic about something that is not widely known. It's good etiquette and does not make less educated members feel stupid because this person's going "everyone must have seen this", when a lot of people actually haven't.

You don't have to post an essay at once, of course, but people (including myself before I went to Google) would surely like to know briefly who she was and exactly why you see similarities, since not everyone gets the idea to open a new tab with Google at once.

If you're not specific and present your point it'll be pretty hard for you to start a discussion, which I suspect was the intention of this topic.
Especially if you make it out like "people who didn't notice this aren't even worthy of knowing".

I'm sorry if my previous post sounded aggressive. I even did a quick Google search and presented what I thought of as a similarity which is more than most people posting in this thread did. Yet I am apparently "bossing you around".

EDIT: God I can't spell today.



Offline alex

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Reply #19 on: May 22, 2008, 04:38:38 PM
Quote from: "nage"
Nice. But it's definitely not like that here. XD We learn what we're told. Then our knowledge of the subject is examined. That's it. You know it, you pass, you don't, you fail. No opinions, no discussions.


Sounds like Asia.



Offline ferret

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Reply #20 on: May 22, 2008, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: "Matilda in Oz"
Sirimono, don't they also teach in schools that BULLYING people into sharing their wisdom never works?


Nobody here is bullying, though, and why even mention the wisdom if you had no intention of sharing it in the first place?

See, I saw your first entry like you were stating a fact and not your personal opinion and was instantly confused.

Please be sure that we are not trying to attack you here but this thread brought up some confusion due to lack of (non) provided information.

RIP


Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #21 on: May 24, 2008, 08:20:45 AM
Big, big apologies to everyone! Didn't mean to offend and didn't mean to be obscure. I started a thread I wasn't able to finish, and that was wrong. I had hoped someone else had noticed the Gish-connection, which would have saved me doing all the explaining.

I've been really sick for about two weeks now, basically dragging myself out of bed to eat and check my emails (not sure which is most important  :wink: ). Something else really upsetting just happened in my personal life, so I probably overreacted when asked for more information, so well, I shouldn't even be here, I should be in bed resting and eating lots of chocolate, but wanted to write my apology because you guys are terrific, fun and interesting and as I wrote to Hypno yesterday I think this is a great forum for X lovers, no matter what. Arguments are part of discussion, I totally agree.

Ok, when I'm back on my two feet again I might set aside some time to make a compilation of images and video clips with references to what's what and how. It's really really fascinating, but as you can imagine requires a fair amount of work. That's why I wanted to encourage everyone to have a look for yourselves, but I realise now that may be confusing if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Hugs and all that to all of you freaks. I'll be back then in a few weeks or even later....



Offline Matilda in Oz

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Reply #22 on: May 24, 2008, 08:23:24 AM
Quote from: "ferret"
Why even mention the wisdom if you had no intention of sharing it in the first place?


Dear ferret, I had every intention of sharing! I still do, so please try and not misunderstand. I had the intention but not the strength at this very moment in time.



Offline Anna

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Reply #23 on: May 24, 2008, 06:53:15 PM
Okay, get a good rest (and lots of chocolate)! :D

Pony rocks!


Offline LEMONedMe

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Reply #24 on: March 09, 2018, 07:41:48 AM
Although no one has posted in here for a long time, I am posting what I found on a forum that appears to be defunct or no longer used.   There are some sections on hide and on his book which this topic is about.  I will probably post the translations I found, somewhere else on here.  But, this may clear things up as far as Lillian Gish is or was concerned.


無言激 (Mugongeki) is hide's photobook, published in 1992.04.5.

Some words about the title. The word 'mugongeki' when written '無言劇', means 'pantomime'. However, the book's title is written '無言激'. The kanji '激' is used to describe violence, anger, fierceness or intensity. In this case a possible reading of the title might be 'Silent Rage'.


Silent Rage sounds much more like something from hide than pantomime.  And I believe that's truly it - Silent Rage.

Sometimes our tears blinded the love
We lost out dreams along the way
But I never thought you'd trade your soul to the fates
Never thought you'd leave me alone