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Religion or whatever you believe in

Sirimono · 9119

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Offline Sirimono

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on: April 12, 2008, 12:15:11 AM
I have looked through the pages and I couldn't find a thread about this yet... so well

what do you believe in? What is your religion and do you live after it?
Do you have any special personal belief?

I myself am baptised, but I'm not christian at all. I actually despise europe for forcing their christian ideals upon all other parts on the world.

christian ideals are on the one side what is said in the bible, but on the other hand are the Human Rights just a symbol of the christian ideals and I don't think we all should just accept them, but maybe have a thought if the ethics with which we grew up are possibly wrong...

I have a strong belief in a life after death, partly because the thought of nothingness after death scares me.
I believe in a spirit, that exists in another dimension, that is free from body etc. and therefore can't die

And so I believe it's possible to meet everyone again in the life after death... and it might be easier since we could move around more freely.

But well, it is just what I want most to be there after death. I fear most of the other possibilites



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Offline TG

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Reply #1 on: April 12, 2008, 12:18:05 AM
Personally i am an agnostic. At Sixth Form (College) i learnt quite a lot about life and ethics in Philosophy. I found a lot of it very interesting.

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Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #2 on: April 12, 2008, 01:09:17 AM
Hm, I'm too much of Agent Scully for being able to believe in something god-like. (And I never got why Scully believes in god! :shock:)

I grew up in a family full atheists. My grandparents resigned from church when my parents were still children, because they simply felt no need for the church anymore.
Apart from this I'm a person who's always searching for explanations and proofs. But I don't believe in the absolute truth either - my opinion is, that the truth depends on the point of view of an individual, so I also accept it when there are people around who believe in a god.

I cannot imagine that there are spirits around and I cannot comprehend how people can believe that Adam and Eve were the first human beings. I cannot believe that a mighty spirit created all life on earth. I don't believe that the bones of the dinosaurs are fake and that we didn't develope from the apes.

And I'm angry about what especially Christianity has done in history and still does in present. Naturally I don't blame it on any person who believes - much more on the institution and how the leaders of that institution betrayed and still betray the trust of people who really believe.
They all say you gotta respect the words of god and follow them. Their god (as well as most of the gods) said: You shall not kill! ... just an example.
There are many other points I don't like about religious institutions, but I don't want to write a statement with an extent of the Bible now. :P

All in all: Give me a proof or a logical explanation why a god or mighty ghost should exist and I might think about it. 8) But I'm fine with people who believe... As long as no one get's hurt because of it - go for it!

EDITED TO ADD:
Oh, there's one thing I believe in: Rock'n'Roll and the power of music in general! 8)
Psychology in some ways...

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Offline Sirimono

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Reply #3 on: April 12, 2008, 01:21:47 AM
yeah i know what you mean. But i'm less against the institutions, but rather against the people that follow the institutions blind...

One thing is, that when you grow up in a european state, you will most likely accept the laws and ethics present, so you think those are the best laws and best ethics that exist and that's why we gotta show everyone else on the world how they gotta live.

The asian states lived with completely different ethics and with opening them we forced them to accept our image of peace and a good living together.

Asian countries have a much bigger feeling for pride and a smaller feeling for the individual gain.
The individuality came in europe from the 17th to 19th century and well... i would say it is a good thing, but maybe a chinese wouldn't say so....

I just don't like it that so many people live in europe, say they are atheist and don't believe into christianity and still live without thinking in a country that follows christian laws and ethics.

I would like more people to think about it... they believe they think freely, but in the end they still follow a religion



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Offline Hollywood

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Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 01:53:51 AM
Skeptical agnostic.  Anything's possible, but some things seem a lot more likely than others.

I consider myself tolerant of others' religions, though.  So long as nothing is being forced upon anyone and no one's being hurt who doesn't want to be, then I say everyone should be free to believe (or disbelieve) what they want.  In fact I think religions are interesting, I just don't go for any of them myself.

And I have some "Catholic experience" and enjoy Catholic art, though I wouldn't consider myself Catholic (too many differences in values, even aside of the belief aspect).

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Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 02:45:29 AM
Quote from: "Sirimono"
I just don't like it that so many people live in europe, say they are atheist and don't believe into christianity and still live without thinking in a country that follows christian laws and ethics.

I don't think that I follow Christianity only because I think killing people and stealing is unjustness. :P

I think it's much more sad that so many people who believe in god give a shit on what their god is telling them. That is in my opinion much more ridiculous. Why is killing in the name of ... better than killing just because?  (Same for Asian religion/culture: Why is killing because of  hurt pride better than killing just because?)
Why is getting AIDS and birthing children although you cannot feed them better than safer sex?

And I won't move from here only because the basis for our legal system was the bible once. Then I wouldn't be allowed to live anywhere. Nearly every place on earth is influenced by any religion. And saying to be atheist means believing in no god - What has this to do with the fact that the country follows christian laws and ethics? You can follow them without having a god as a reason, but just because of thinking that this is just reasonable.
No one will force me to marry or to only have one partner in my life. No one will force me to only have sex when I'm intending to have a baby. I will not burn in hell only because I'm envious about people or because I ate more than I should. And above all I won't vote for any Christian party, because I think religion has nothing to do with politics anymore (at least it should be like this in my opinion).

The ten commandments may be the basis of the rights in European countries - that's right, I guess. And I think that is one of the few good things the church brought along. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages naturally. In the beginning the church was advanced and gave people ideas how to live together in communities and so on. But in my opinion from the Middle Ages on the church was more and more oldfashioned and too stubborn about this. They also became mendacious and greedy for might and proberty. From that point on the intention of the commandments wasn't followed anymore. And the people from church still claim that they're infallible and always do the right thing - I think this is the worst crime ever.

:shock: Uhm... at least I could say, that I don't live here without thinking. :lol: ;)

:oops: And naturally this is all just about my opinion - feel free to agree or disagree and sorry for that long (and maybe boring) post, haha.

mod mode

And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
"Smile and be happy - it could have become worse!"
So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse


Offline Sirimono

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Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 02:59:35 AM
No need to be sorry I had my fun reading it  :lol:

Oh I mostly agree to you. It's just that people follow christian rules, even though they claim to be free from christianity.
I mean, if you thought about the christian basis and you accepted it for yourself as what you regard as good, then i don't have any problem with that!
but I think it's important to think about whether the human rights, or what we regard as base for peace and liberty, is really the most perfect system and whether have to force every other country and religion to accept that.

Most people don't waste any thoughts on that one. Every country has to accept those christian rules to become part of the United Nations and I just don't think it's right to suppress every other ethic structure like that.

Maybe what we do is right and it will bring more peace and happiness, but it's not for sure. We could go into the absolutely wrong way.
I just wish people would start to think about what we regard as "good" whether it's christian or not...

actually i would say, most people in the modern states believe in what they like to, but only a few get that we live in states that are embossed by the christian religion. I'm not saying that is necessarily bad

and you're so right about the christian party :x



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Offline ferret

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Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 07:48:11 AM

RIP


Offline Sirimono

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Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 11:17:24 AM
Quote from: "ferret"
Sorry :P


wtf wtf and i looked so closely  :cry:



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Offline Zwanster

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Reply #9 on: April 12, 2008, 03:17:45 PM
I'm sort of like you Sirimono, I was baptised and had all the rest forced upon me from a young age (Irish catholics, ugh), but I never believed in any of it particularly, not even in the existance of a god. So at around 12 I stopped going to church and haven't been back since. Thinking about all those Sundays I spent in church listening to some old guy talk about the same shit (that might not even be true) every single year makes me angry, I don't think people should be baptised as baby's, sure its a good way to teach morals and stuff like that to kids but you can bring up kids well without religion, I don't trust it.



Offline nage

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Reply #10 on: April 12, 2008, 05:03:02 PM
I'm a baptised... atheist.  :D


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Offline Skooter

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Reply #11 on: April 12, 2008, 05:35:21 PM
I'm part agnostic, part atheist I guess. Probably the same as Hollywood's skeptical agnosticism XD.

I was never baptised myself, but I spent most of my life at Christian catholic schools so I was rather the odd one out =D.



Offline Hollywood

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Reply #12 on: April 12, 2008, 05:47:15 PM
Quote from: "Skooter"
I'm part agnostic, part atheist I guess. Probably the same as Hollywood's skeptical agnosticism XD.


Probably so. ;)  With me, I'm practically atheist, though I can't personally rule out the potential that there could be some "stuff out there" which I don't know about or understand.  I generally take a scientific worldview, but "the scientific worldview" is constantly redefining itself (as it should) when new facts are discovered and new theories are made.  After all, we used to think the world was flat. :P  So I don't rule out the possibility that there may come a day when things that currently seem like science-fiction or mysticism could be discovered to be factual.  Other dimensions, for example-- I'm generally skeptical but have read some interesting theories on this one, so you never know, maybe there will come a day when we take this as fact.  Certainly there's a lot of stuff that we haven't yet discovered about the world we live in.

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Offline nage

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Reply #13 on: April 12, 2008, 05:53:26 PM
Quote from: "Hollywood"
................... Certainly there's a lot of stuff that we haven't yet discovered about the world we live in.

And it's such a pity, that human life is so short... >.> I'd like to see new discoveries. But I guess it will take some time.


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Offline Amethyst_Dahlia

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Reply #14 on: April 13, 2008, 04:32:16 AM
Like I mentioned in a different topic here, I was raised Jewish (Reform Judaism to be exact). It was forced on me by my family like crazy, though. X_x

But I'm really kind of on the borderline between Agnostic and Atheist (another Skeptical Agnostic I guess? XD), and pretty much always have been.

I have nothing against Jewish people, or people who choose to follow any other religion for that matter, and I respect their beliefs, but religion is just not my thing at all. Not to mention I'm kind of bitter about having it forced on me for so many years. XD"

Again, like Hollywood, the worst thing about religion for me is the fanatics who try to force it on everyone around them, especially due to my personal experience with that. X_x

And I agree with VioletCamicat about rock n' roll and the power of music! =D



Offline kendofreak

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Reply #15 on: April 13, 2008, 03:23:14 PM
i was baptised and confirmed but the confirmation was just "something you do" in catholic schools nowadays, personally i think there is something but not in the form of organised religion or anything like that!
i think its just somethin you find out yourself, not "guided" to it as the catholics say they do.



Offline Yu~Kun

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Reply #16 on: April 13, 2008, 03:46:32 PM
Atheist


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Offline Madjhatter

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Reply #17 on: April 14, 2008, 06:36:56 PM
I simply like to say that I have no religious affiliation. I was raised without religion and have too, been skeptical but I like the art that it has inspired, just from an artistic point of view.

Quote from: "Amethyst_Dahlia"

Again, like Hollywood, the worst thing about religion for me is the fanatics who try to force it on everyone around them, especially due to my personal experience with that. X_x

...yeah I live in Salt Lake City, UT and have had that done to me pretty much all my life, I've looking into religion but decided to not convert to anything and got outcasted.   Its sad because religion is something that an either bring many people together and it also can divide so many, I think we should all at least accept eachother.

~Live boldly. Take risks. Make somebody say, "what the hell was that all about?"~


Offline Sander

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Reply #18 on: April 14, 2008, 07:12:55 PM
Quote from: "VioletCamicat"
I don't believe that the bones of the dinosaurs are fake and that we didn't develope from the apes.
You are quite wrong here if you believe so... We didn't develop from the apes, we and the apes had common ancestors, but the species split up. This is the best chart I found right now, but I can get a better one from my biology textbook by tomorrow if you want :) :


Quote from: "Sirimono"
...It's just that people follow christian rules, even though they claim to be free from christianity...
Have you considered that some peoples rules might just match with most of the Christian rules... I, for example, am not a Christian at all, but I do think that it's wrong to kill, steal, etc... Christianity is known for taking things that people already have and presenting them as their own so the people will accept Christianity better. For example, Jesus was born basically on winter solstice... And many other Christian holidays are from other religions...

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Offline Amethyst_Dahlia

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Reply #19 on: April 14, 2008, 07:30:23 PM
Quote from: "Hypno"
Have you considered that some peoples rules might just match with most of the Christian rules... I, for example, am not a Christian at all, but I do think that it's wrong to kill, steal, etc...


I agree with this in the sense that I don't believe someone needs to be a religious follower to be a good person. Not to say people who follow religion are automatically bad, or vice-versa, but I don't think religion is the only factor in a person's morals/sense of right and wrong.

For example, even though I am not religious, I still do my best to be respectful and even kind to others, sometimes going out of my way to be nice (especially when it comes to X Japan). XD" Like Hypno said, I also believe it's wrong to kill or steal. And I've always been straightedge, too- I've never smoked or done drugs, and while I've tried alcohol, I've never been drunk (nor have I intended to) and I don't even like the taste of most of the drinks I've tried anyway (too bitter!). X_x I won't stop people who do choose to drink/smoke/whatever, but it's just not my thing. o.o



Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #20 on: April 14, 2008, 07:51:21 PM
Quote from: "Hypno"
Quote from: "VioletCamicat"
I don't believe that the bones of the dinosaurs are fake and that we didn't develope from the apes.
You are quite wrong here if you believe so... We didn't develop from the apes, we and the apes had common ancestors, but the species split up. This is the best chart I found right now, but I can get a better one from my biology textbook by tomorrow if you want :) :

Dammit! Sander! You know how I meant it! XD
Okay okay... then the homo sapiens sapiens and all the apes have the same origin. Hell... of course those apes also developed.
Smart-ass! :P

Quote from: "Hypno"
Quote from: "Sirimono"
...It's just that people follow christian rules, even though they claim to be free from christianity...
Have you considered that some peoples rules might just match with most of the Christian rules... I, for example, am not a Christian at all, but I do think that it's wrong to kill, steal, etc... Christianity is known for taking things that people already have and presenting them as their own so the people will accept Christianity better. For example, Jesus was born basically on winter solstice... And many other Christian holidays are from other religions...

Aye aye! Second that about the killing/stealing/etc....
There are several religions very similar  Christianity - but way older than Christianity.
I think the Zeitgeist movie explains it pretty good. :D
one
two
three
(This all together is the first part of the movie - there are two others about WTC+war and uh... about the federal reserve.)

So... yeah... ask, who the Christians followed..? :P

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And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
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So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse


Offline Sander

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Reply #21 on: April 14, 2008, 08:13:30 PM
I'v seen Zeitgeist :P First part was the only one that wasn't a bit TOO conspiracy-theory for me :P

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Offline Edside

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Reply #22 on: April 14, 2008, 09:49:33 PM
My fathers let me choose(baptzim, or whatever) when I was a child, they aren't religious at all. I said no at that time, religions are not my cup of tea. I'm more related to atheism, nowadays. Although I try to stay away from extremist attitudes. In the end, who can prove that there's somekind of god, gods or mother earth or that there isn't? These still are very metaphysical matters, which makes them very difficult to prove or refute. Sometimes it's funny/sad to see how some religions try to use the reason, even science sometimes, to prove that their divinity exists.

Here's a graphic I think you'd find interesting, its the results of an study made by Pitzer:






Offline MillieQOF

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Reply #23 on: April 14, 2008, 09:56:28 PM
God, I can actually believe that about Sweden.
We're so non-believing here XD



Offline Sander

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Reply #24 on: April 14, 2008, 09:59:44 PM
And Estonia in the top ten :D Glad to see that.

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Offline Sirimono

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Reply #25 on: April 14, 2008, 09:59:58 PM
I'm ok with German's rank ^^ i mean... "wir sind papst" (we are pope) it could've been worse



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Offline nage

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Reply #26 on: April 14, 2008, 10:02:19 PM
Slovakia sucks... >.>
*moving to Czech or Japan* XD


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Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #27 on: April 14, 2008, 11:02:03 PM
Uhm... maybe I'll be stupid now, but: What the heck is the difference between non-religious and atheist?! :shock:

Quote from: "Hypno"
I'v seen Zeitgeist :P First part was the only one that wasn't a bit TOO conspiracy-theory for me :P

Same here! :P The religion-part is indeed the most interesting one!

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And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
"Smile and be happy - it could have become worse!"
So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse


Offline Sirimono

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Reply #28 on: April 14, 2008, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: "VioletCamicat"
Uhm... maybe I'll be stupid now, but: What the heck is the difference between non-religious and atheist?! :shock:


i would say non-religious means that you believe your own stuff, that is not part of a religion
while atheist means you don't believe into anything at all

i would tag myself as non-religious, because i can't say i believe into nothing. I left the athetistic thing behind me, i think it's plainly silly actually  :P



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Offline VioletCamicat

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Reply #29 on: April 14, 2008, 11:06:10 PM
Okay - then I didn't call me the wrong way at least... thanx. XD

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And out of the chaos I heard a voice telling me:
"Smile and be happy - it could have become worse!"
So I smiled and was happy... and it became worse