X Freaks Forum

The band => The Members => Taiji => Topic started by: Feudal on October 18, 2016, 01:21:04 AM

Title: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Feudal on October 18, 2016, 01:21:04 AM
After watching the WeAreX doc, I can't get over how frustrating the part was where Yoshiki said he cannot say why Taiji was fired. The interviewer even said, "not even after all of this time?" and Yoshiki responds, "I just can't", and prior to that, "He did something he should not have done".

It's clear that Taiji was a strong force in the band and challenged Yoshiki a lot and his ideas were in a different direction. I'd like to know what everyone here speculates on why he was let go. My best guess is that he tried to undermine Yoshiki and almost pull a coup in the band, not by necessarily killing him, but by trying to persuade the others to either leave and start a new band or split them up. Yoshiki said in the doc, "if i didn't fire him, X was over".

It seems kind of silly that even after all this time he still refuses to talk about it but knowing how Japanese society emphasizes honour, perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: returner on October 18, 2016, 04:03:14 AM
I've thought about it a lot but obviously we'll never really know. And any of us who can't speak Japanese (who can't look at the forums over there) will be that much more out of the loop since J-fans probably have more information to work with.

The documentary-edit also cut out some interviews with Pata and Toshi about the subject matter, where the conflict between them was brought up. But they both said it only made the band better because it made them each more competitive to be the best.

Whatever happened was something bad enough for not even Taiji to talk about in his autobiography. If he tried to pull a coup... well, wouldn't that have made for a better story? "I really couldn't stand the guy, so I tried to convince the members to leave him. In the end it was me to go," type thing. Taiji did say that he thought of Yoshiki as a "hard to like" man so he wasn't afraid to let his feelings be known about it. So whatever happened, it definitely reflected badly on Taiji enough to where no one, including him, spoke about it. I also don't think Yoshiki would have had trouble saying, "he divided the members too much, trying to seek control of the band, so I had to let him go."

The way they don't talk about it makes it sound like something illegal happened. Maybe they got into blows and a weapon was pulled or something. But I doubt Yoshiki would have gone alone with him to a bar to fire him and then proceed to get in another fight if that had happened.

Also, we have to take into account that Yoshiki did invite Taiji back to perform with X in 2010. Whatever it was WAS something that they eventually forgave him for. So to me that says it could be something completely unrelated to the music business that would have just completely character-assassinated the band. They had to distance themselves from Taiji as a person either by dissolving the band or kicking him out.

Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: nb on October 18, 2016, 11:56:57 AM
(...) perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?

rape.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: returner on October 18, 2016, 01:34:38 PM
(...) perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?

rape.

What makes you say that? Are there rumors about it in Japan? That's a really serious allegation so we at least need some explanation on why you say so.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: nb on October 18, 2016, 04:05:55 PM
(...) perhaps something like what I suggested is considered unspeakable in their culture. Thoughts?

rape.

What makes you say that? Are there rumors about it in Japan? That's a really serious allegation so we at least need some explanation on why you say so.

Because this is definitely a dealbreaker and something you won't talk about also after this amount of years


(...)

The way they don't talk about it makes it sound like something illegal happened. Maybe they got into blows and a weapon was pulled or something.

(...)

As you said... maybe/could be... supposition, you know?  :)
Don't want to say "he raped someone!", just want to make a suggestion.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Feudal on October 18, 2016, 04:26:28 PM
I'm torn on what to theorize because if it's something in the realm of trying to break up the band, steal members, take more power, Yoshiki should be able to talk about that. "He was trying to break up our band, etc"...I don't see why that would be such a taboo topic. I don't know if a weapon was involved because he mentioned them getting into a fist fight at the bar AFTER he told him he's fired.

Unless Taiji did something that would jeopardize his status in the band (committed a crime and could be facing jail time) then I don't know what else it could be. I guess one would have to do some major, major digging to research if Taiji was ever related to a crime.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Riot on October 18, 2016, 06:35:15 PM
Most bands that I know of have only a couple of rules that, if you break them, will get you fired. They're usually something like

1. don't fuck your band mate's girlfriend/boyfriend,
2. Don't bring illegal substances to the band (ie. don't deal drugs while you're in the band)

Also, several combinations of the above might get you fired... (don't do drugs with your band mate's girlfriend while you're supposed to be working). I've witnessed a couple of these scenarios and the results can be nasty.

Or it could be something totally different, like talking behind someone's back about something very important. Who knows. They clearly don't want to talk about it, and I'm okay with that, especially since Taiji is gone, and we'll never get to hear his side of the story.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: AsukaMiyu on October 18, 2016, 08:34:13 PM
I think the "most popular rumour" about Taiji being fired is because of drug issues of some kind. If you keep in mind that in Japan drugs were/are a much bigger 'issue' compared to the west, it would seem logical that - even while he still can't talk about it - yoshiki forgave him for what happened back then...and invited him to that concert.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: nb on October 18, 2016, 08:41:43 PM
I think the "most popular rumour" about Taiji being fired is because of drug issues of some kind. If you keep in mind that in Japan drugs were/are a much bigger 'issue' compared to the west, it would seem logical that - even while he still can't talk about it - yoshiki forgave him for what happened back then...and invited him to that concert.

agreed.
An example for this is the first drummer from L'arc en ciel, Sakura. He had to leave the band after he was arrested for heroin possession.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Kasumi on October 29, 2016, 06:35:55 PM
I think the "most popular rumour" about Taiji being fired is because of drug issues of some kind. If you keep in mind that in Japan drugs were/are a much bigger 'issue' compared to the west, it would seem logical that - even while he still can't talk about it - yoshiki forgave him for what happened back then...and invited him to that concert.

This sounds like the most logical thing to me. But we can really only speculate... and in the end it was probably something completely different.

It was intresting to hear how Taiji reacted to being fired. He started a fight with Yoshiki and both cried in the end. :( I wonder what would have happened to X if he had stayed.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on April 10, 2017, 04:19:36 PM
I'm not sure but could he have violated the no drugs rule? OK, all of them were drinking crazy but Yoshiki said they had a no drugs rule. And juding by Taiji's later images and stories and his violent outbursts on that plane that led to his death... could he have been into drugs? And that's why Yoshiki decided to fire him? I mean if it had been really really really unreasonable, hide, of all people, would have raised his voice at least.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: nb on April 10, 2017, 09:19:17 PM
Drugs are not the reason for his death. There are many roumors about him dying, but no drugs :)
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on April 11, 2017, 12:56:19 PM
Drugs are not the reason for his death. There are many roumors about him dying, but no drugs :)

I didn't mean that drugs killed him, sorry for the poorly formulated sentence. I meant that the violent outbursts could have maybe been an indication of drug abuse, or a history of such.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Joker on April 13, 2017, 02:26:30 AM
(committed a crime and could be facing jail time)

Which he did. I remember reading on his biography (or Yoshiki's, but surely one of them) that he got into some fights during Rose & Blood Tour and was arrested twice.

I think it was something related to drugs, which may have harmed even more the already difficult relationship which he was having with the other members.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on June 25, 2017, 12:36:36 PM

Which he did. I remember reading on his biography (or Yoshiki's, but surely one of them) that he got into some fights during Rose & Blood Tour and was arrested twice.

I think it was something related to drugs, which may have harmed even more the already difficult relationship which he was having with the other members.
You can't blame someone using drugs by some suggestion. Taiji just had bigmouth, that's all, but not because he had something against other members and Yoshiki, X was everything for him, they even had to sell their stuff at the beginning to pay for their first concerts and instruments. He wanted band to be perfect, and yes, was a hot head. It doesn't make him drugger.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on June 25, 2017, 04:36:38 PM
Nobody but members know the truth of why he was fired and clearly, they don't want to speak about it. Not just Yoshiki, none of the other members ever opened their mouths about it. We can speculate as much as we want but we won't know the truth unless the members themselves open up (and say the truth). And drugs are not uncommon in the celebrity world, just like alcoholism is not uncommon, either. It could be anything that triggered his sacking. They made up in 2010, so let's leave it at that.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on June 25, 2017, 05:01:23 PM
I am not speculating, I am making conclusion of what I read and see myself: concerts, backstage, etc.
Person being in a rock band doesn't make him drugger or alcohol addicted by presumption. This forum have very strict rules about hard language between people registered here, but what about people speaking for X members? It is you speculating now without any proof Taiji or any other member used something. In that case we easy can say Yoshiki is a drugger because his childhood was a hell and he lost two friends, I am not saying a word about his physical health. Am I right?

Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: returner on June 28, 2017, 12:25:11 AM
You are both right. All we know for sure is, "he did something he should not have done." That's according to Yoshiki in the We Are X documentary.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on June 28, 2017, 11:56:02 AM
Well that makes me think why he didn't fired Hide. You know his tough temper, breaking things, fight with people, stuck his fingers in their nose  ;D But I have no doubts Yoshiki loved Taiji and it wasn't easy decision for him. Or I wish to believe in this.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Matthias on June 30, 2017, 08:05:04 AM
There also seems to have been quiet some tension between hide and Taiji:

Taiji being fired was eventually brought about by Hide. He told Yoshiki “not one more day can I work with Taiji”. Yoshiki claims to have attempted to keep the band together but eventually found Taiji’s “difficult and reckless behaviour” too much, and fired him.

Source (http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6091.0)
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on June 30, 2017, 08:30:38 AM
We will never know. That's a claim from Yoshiki's biography, which may or may not be entirely a true story. Taiji claimed another thing in his autobio, which also may or may not be entirely true. I think everyone has been in situations that were unpleasant and tried to defend themselves by not telling the truth entirely, because it would have made people angry or disappointed. X members are also human beings, there is no 100% surety that the person responsible for the firing doesn't try to defend himself and his decision - or that the person making the "unforgivable mistake" doesn't try to make himself look better because you know, it hurts to admit you did something.

What I'm trying to say is that we won't know the real reason. Taiji is gone, and Yoshiki is unwilling to speak. Whether to protect his band, Taiji's reputation or his own ass, we don't know. Probably we will never know. In these kind of situtation both parties can feel that they were the one in the right and other in the wrong. Everyone has their own personal truths they believe in. Taiji could have felt that he was sacked unreasonably, and Yoshiki could have felt that he had no choice but to do it. Whether hide really had anything to do with Taiji's departure, we don't know. If you watch the last concert with Taiji, all of them are pretty sad at the end.

I'm sure it was not an easy thing but people sometimes don't get along. You can quarrel with lifelong friends, too. You can lose lifelong friends too, in a heated quarrel, even if you like/used to like them. It also happens that people change for the worse. That fame changes them for the worse. We can just guess, because neither of us know these people's REAL personalites, REAL thoughts and REAL behind the scenes behaviour when there are no fans and no cameras around.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on July 01, 2017, 08:39:02 PM
There also seems to have been quiet some tension between hide and Taiji:

Taiji being fired was eventually brought about by Hide. He told Yoshiki “not one more day can I work with Taiji”. Yoshiki claims to have attempted to keep the band together but eventually found Taiji’s “difficult and reckless behaviour” too much, and fired him.

Source (http://www.x-freaks.com/forum/index.php?topic=6091.0)

In that I strongly doubt. Hide cried when Taiji left, my bad, when he was made to leave. From all members Hide and Taiji were like twins, there was something between them that actually made them one of the best team I've ever seen. You can listen this in their music, and of course the difference when Taiji was fired and Hide left a little after that. I don't know if his aparting have something together, maybe he too didn't want Yoshiki to tell them how to make their music anymore. Artist more than anybody needs to be free, if someone tells you how to play it's not art anymore.

Anyway, "they said", "I heard", "my friend told me that he read" are just nothing more than rumors. I cannot believe Hide was such an idiot to ask Yoshiki behind Taiji's back for his dismissal. This is against everything I know about this guy.

After all, Yoshiki loved Taiji and asked him to rejoin years after that, and in his autobiography Taiji says he was pissed off but he never blamed Yohiki. We are just bystanders, we never been in their situation, working together on the same project, sacrifising personal life, free time and health for the band. I think that's the reason Yoshiki is so jelaous about X, it's his child, his product and his life. I also would like to quote Taiji, who said: "To me, X had to be perfect. If nobody pointed out the shortcomings, I didn’t think we would be able to rise to the top. That was my duty. Yoshiki and I frequently collided and there was no forgiveness from the other members.
That’s why I was disliked by the other members, and I was feared by the staff like a human bomb. Even so, everything around me had seemed fine.
The way I behaved was all caused by the fact that I really loved X."


It seems he wanted X to be their masterpiece, as Yoshiki, as Hide... And I understand him, I am kinda like him. I can burst, scream, fight and break things, and ten minutes later I will not even remember about that. I will do my work while other people around me will be super offended and afraid to walk near me. Taiji wan't dangerous or rude, he was just concern for the band. And honest, painfully honest, which is not something everybody would like to see. People often prefer to smile and pretend than hear/tell the truth. Truth is something that hurts.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: xjapanboi on July 31, 2017, 11:40:04 PM
I have always thought that the cause of the break up was because Taiji was against Yoshiki for changing the band's musical direction from heavy metal to more pop rock and ballad oriented.that's what i had read in the past decade. but now that Yoshiki is claiming its something much more unforgivable. my guess would also be either drug or trying to steal the members forming a new band. i think possibility 1 is more likely. he did look like someone(personality)who would do drug
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: xjapanboi on July 31, 2017, 11:47:16 PM
I have always thought that the cause of the break up was because Taiji was against Yoshiki for changing the band's musical direction from heavy metal to more pop rock and ballad oriented.that's what i had read in the past decade. but now that Yoshiki is claiming its something much more unforgivable. my guess would also be either drug or trying to steal the members forming a new band. i think possibility 1 is more likely. he did look like someone who would do drug

where did you read about Yoshiki asked Taji to rejoin for years?  what about Heath?
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 03, 2017, 03:33:50 PM
I'm gonna go with a mix of salary differences, music direction differences and both Taiji and Yoshiki having bitchy personalities.

Yoshiki doesn't look like the kind of guy who likes being told what to do, and neither does Taiji. Yoshiki has mentioned that he appreciated Hide because Hide was rather wild, but still respected him and let him have the last word. Taiji probably didn't.

I don't know if Hide was the one who asked Yoshiki to fire him, though. They even got matching tattoos at one point. But hey, you can fight like an animal with your BFF, of all people, if they piss you off.

Anyway, it's a shame he's gone. What a great rockstar that guy was.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Ulquiorra4th on August 04, 2017, 02:59:18 PM
Since Yoshiki said Taiji 'did something' bad rather than 'said something' bad it sounds like something Taiji physically did something, we know that the biggest and main problem between the two and what they clashed over most was musical differences, the more ballad focused direction Yoshiki was starting to take the band into.

I'm just imagining that if Taiji did get overly obsessed with everything being perfect about the band, and was just at his wits end (herherher) with Yoshiki and what he was doing with the new songs, not just the new songs they'd been performing live for a year or two at that point, but probably new songs only he and the other band members had heard in studio. I wonder if Taiji (before I say this, I'm obviously not trying to say Taiji was a bad person, just that lots of people do stupid things when particularly angry) in a moment of real frustration, changed some of the tracks in studio without permission, maybe he secretly recorded heavier guitar/bass parts, or even deleted recordings Yoshiki had done and recorded new guitar bits over vocal and drum tracks.

I'm just coming up with a theory like this partially based off stories from other bands in the past, it would absolutly get you fired from a band for 'doing something' without being physical violence, and a situation Yoshiki and Taiji both regretted and forgave each other later. As for Yoshiki still not wanting to say what Taiji did, it could be that he doesn't want to hurt Taijis reputation with fans in any way, and now that he's gone after they had that great reunion in 2010 he doesn't want to drag up that past too much in his own mind either, since they became friends again.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 04, 2017, 03:08:50 PM
I doubt he could do that since at the time Yoshiki owned the studio they did the recording in and supervised every little aspect. I doubt his engineers would let Taiji change tracks without notifying the boss. :) It is much more probable that Taiji could have done something related to drugs or physical violence of some sort that was not tolerated. I'm pretty sure they all brawled from time to time, but there are limits/severity to everything. "Did" can indicate anything, even speaking :) It's also possible that simpy they quarreled too much and Yoshiki had enough of him trying to tell him what to do with  his own songs. Or maybe he demanded more authority, to have more of his songs featured and Yoshiki didn't allow it and they argued. We will never know....
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: xjapanboi on August 04, 2017, 06:15:59 PM
Since Yoshiki said Taiji 'did something' bad rather than 'said something' bad it sounds like something Taiji physically did something, we know that the biggest and main problem between the two and what they clashed over most was musical differences, the more ballad focused direction Yoshiki was starting to take the band into.

I'm just imagining that if Taiji did get overly obsessed with everything being perfect about the band, and was just at his wits end (herherher) with Yoshiki and what he was doing with the new songs, not just the new songs they'd been performing live for a year or two at that point, but probably new songs only he and the other band members had heard in studio. I wonder if Taiji (before I say this, I'm obviously not trying to say Taiji was a bad person, just that lots of people do stupid things when particularly angry) in a moment of real frustration, changed some of the tracks in studio without permission, maybe he secretly recorded heavier guitar/bass parts, or even deleted recordings Yoshiki had done and recorded new guitar bits over vocal and drum tracks.

I'm just coming up with a theory like this partially based off stories from other bands in the past, it would absolutly get you fired from a band for 'doing something' without being physical violence, and a situation Yoshiki and Taiji both regretted and forgave each other later. As for Yoshiki still not wanting to say what Taiji did, it could be that he doesn't want to hurt Taijis reputation with fans in any way, and now that he's gone after they had that great reunion in 2010 he doesn't want to drag up that past too much in his own mind either, since they became friends again.

i still think it doesnt justify for Yoshiki not to talk about it. it has to be something very serious that he cannot talk about it. i still believe it had drug using involved. based on my years of observation and experience with japanese culture. the artist can come across as very wicked for their image, use very vulgar English language to look cool. but drug is a very taboo thing in Japan. even weed is considered big crime in Japan. being exposed  using drug  can completely ruin their careers. despite your image is associated with heavy metal. punk. or rap. it doesnt help. their companies will drop them
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: xjapanboi on August 04, 2017, 06:19:48 PM
I doubt he could do that since at the time Yoshiki owned the studio they did the recording in and supervised every little aspect. I doubt his engineers would let Taiji change tracks without notifying the boss. :) It is much more probable that Taiji could have done something related to drugs or physical violence of some sort that was not tolerated. I'm pretty sure they all brawled from time to time, but there are limits/severity to everything. "Did" can indicate anything, even speaking :) It's also possible that simpy they quarreled too much and Yoshiki had enough of him trying to tell him what to do with  his own songs. Or maybe he demanded more authority, to have more of his songs featured and Yoshiki didn't allow it and they argued. We will never know....

yeah....it sounds like he did something thats beyond personal to me.....he says it could result the band breaking up....i think it was more than just personal business between them...
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 04, 2017, 08:34:11 PM
Yup, but there are a million reasons that could make a 'simple' reason embarassing enough to say in a documentary. "He quit because I was making more than thrice his salary and I'm still making a lot more than the other guys" is embarassing enough. I would say I don't want to talk about it as well.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 04, 2017, 09:08:31 PM
Yes, I agree with matsumoto. It could have been anything. Yoshiki not wanting to talk about it can simply mean he doesn't want people to know, that's it. There are busines decisions and personal decisions you don't share with the public and Yoshiki is not a fool. Maybe they just simply hated each other and the time arrived when they could no longer bear each other's presence. You cannot tell your fans that "well, we didn't get along, I hated him, he hated me, so I fired him". :) X is iconic, you don't just turn your fanbase against you with things like this. There are a lot of things artists don't share and don't tell the truth about. Band members also don't always get along, rather tolerate each other for the sake of what they are doing together. I know bands where certain members don't even talk to each other at all apart from necessities. Money is a big ruler, you know? And this is showbusiness, however we want to look at it :) sure, most bands do stuff for the sake of music and because they simply love making music and being on stage. I don't doubt X is also like that. But they also got big and when you get big and have millions of fans to cater to, rules change. You need to take into consideration your fanbase's needs. You cna of course say that you do whatever you want but in reality nobody wants to lose their fanbase. Why do you think X still honors hide at every concert even though 20 years passed since his death? If you see the crowd at concert, every 3rd fan has a hide doll or is dressed as hide. If they stop catering to hide fans, those fans will get angry. And they will boycott you and your sales will go down. This is also a business. Whatever happened between Taiji and Yoshiki/the band, remains between them.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 06, 2017, 04:20:28 PM
I'm gonna go with a mix of salary differences, music direction differences and both Taiji and Yoshiki having bitchy personalities.

Yoshiki doesn't look like the kind of guy who likes being told what to do, and neither does Taiji. Yoshiki has mentioned that he appreciated Hide because Hide was rather wild, but still respected him and let him have the last word. Taiji probably didn't.

I don't know if Hide was the one who asked Yoshiki to fire him, though. They even got matching tattoos at one point. But hey, you can fight like an animal with your BFF, of all people, if they piss you off.

Anyway, it's a shame he's gone. What a great rockstar that guy was.

How Hide with his pink hair is different and cool, and Taiji refusing change his hair and wearing that cowboy stuff is against rules? They did the same thing, being what they are, following their own way, and one ends with three suiciders and 50 000 at his funeral, other - possibly murdered, and nobody knows about it? I don't wanna mentoin this in every topic, but it looks not fair for me. I also don't claim I know everything and I can judge guys for their relationship and decisions back then. But hey, come on, since one of them is liked by Yoshiki, he can stay, and other can go away?
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 06, 2017, 04:29:20 PM
Teemeah then he should remain in silence for everything. You can't go outside and just say "Hide asked me to fire Taiji" after they both are dead and can't prove or deny it. This is not correct to someone you were friend with, more than business and music. You can't expect say something like this and then fans not burst with questions. If you don't want them to know - you don't speak about it at all. And we all know how fans especially of music bands are becoming fanatics and some of them believe that actually heir idol's life is their own. There always must be a line to separate these things.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 07, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
Aries, I think it might have been pretty much like that (pffft, what do I know, I don't know those people at all).

If you're a bandleader and you have two key members who fight all the time, who do you kick out? The one you like less, obviously. And don't forget to think business, who has the biggest fanbase? Hide, obviously. You can't kick that one out or you lose 70% of your fanbase.

Whichever the reason was, Yoshiki was quite a diplomat for ditching the question, in any case. It's old news that he fired Taiji. Admitting that he had to choose between him and another bandmember is pretty damn embarassing (hey, Taiji has a fanbase too!). So he just said he didn't want to talk about it. If I was the director, I would have cut out that sequence but they probably thought it would add some mystery to the whole thing, so...
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 07, 2017, 12:19:38 PM
Eh this is too generally. I don't think Yoshiki didn't liked Taiji, just there is some precious order he want everybody to follow. You can see how they play and joke with each other at old videos. And still Hide left, Yoshiki lost them both, and for what?
I am not judging anybody here, I believe he loved them both and even after 19 years from Hide'death and 6 from Taiji's, band keep performing songs in their memory. But what good came from this?

When I read about Taiji and Toshi recording Voiceless screaming, it was obvious that Toshi was under Yoshiki's influence. Is there another band where vocalist is told how to sing his songs? I love X but I cannot accept this for normal thing. Band is a family, you open your soul to these people, miss holidays with your actual family to work with them, forget about personal life and instead of this stay from sunrise to late evening recording music - your music. Every single person put so much in it, I don't know if I would be able to forgive such thing if I was in his place.
And I wonder was that the reason Hide aparted? Alone he exposed his tallent much better than being with X, but I still cannot believe he was the reason for Taiji's departure. Hide was crazy unpredictable guy, not double faced. At least that's what I know about him, you can never be sure 100%.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 07, 2017, 07:55:39 PM
Hide never left the band, if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty sure he would have left it if he had lived, though. Towards the end he didn't fit at all. It's weird to look at him in the Last Live. His new style didn't fit with the band's new style, his crazy guitar was being seriously underused with the new, mostly ballad playlist, whatnot.

I have no idea if he played a part in Taiji's departure. If there were two guys in that band to pick trouble, that would have been those two, presumably with each other. Don't think Hide was double-faced either. A freak, but not really mean. Telling your boss you can no longer work with a specific co-worker is not a mean thing to do, though.

Veredict: Taiji stole somebody's hairspray and they got pissed. A shame. I really liked the dude.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 08, 2017, 07:50:31 AM
Hide didn't leave the band... Hide DIED. He was the one person trying to convince Toshi to stay, he tried to talk him out of leaving for hours before he gave up. X disbanded and Hide continued his solo career in full force. He was also in talks with Yoshiki about recruiting a new singer, they were checking out demos of singers. X re-forming with a new singer was precisely cut in half by his death.

And please don't forget we are talking about Japanese dudes here in the 1990s. As much as they were rebels against society, they are also very inherently Japanese. We are trying to view them through our own cultural glasses. Talking about problems is not a thing in Japanese culture, especially personal problems and expressing emotions towards others. (Stage affections, behaviour in front of cameras are a different thing, it's called FAN SERVICE, Asian bands mastered this notion). Just remember how Toshi and Yoshiki talked about Toshi's brainwashing in front of the documentary crew's camera for the FIRST TIME. They haven't talked about it at all among themselves. I doubt they talk about any personal issues, apart from hellos and how are yours and have you eatens. It's not a Japanese thing. Band is family, yeah, for all the marketing purposes. They were so much a family that Toshi, a CHILDHOOD FRIEND didn't know that Yoshiki's father committed suicide until much much later, he was singing his lyrics without knowing what they actually meant! He said this himself, with his own mouth in the documentary. What kind of family behaviour do you expect of people who don't talk at all, apart from music and trivial jokes and superficial conversation of cars and weather and food?

And Yoshiki is boss when it comes to X music, whether you like it or not, he will tell you how to sing and what to play. It's a no brainer why X had so many lineup changes in the early years. It's a wonder Taiji did dtay in the band for so long with his personality being equally stubborn. Yoshiki was more lenient with hide because he liked him and because he really wanted him to join. He still didn't get to write a lot of songs for X, right? Pata's personality is very different, he does what he is told to do, silently. Heath is also like that in a way.Hide, I guess, simply liked working with Yoshiki, for some odd reason, they understood each other musically.

Oh yeah and did you know Yoshiki only met Toshi's wife once? What kind of friendship is that, where your best friend is basically a stranger to the woman you love? Let's get the pink glasses off, please. These people come from an entirely different cultural background and their thought process is very different to Western thinking.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 08, 2017, 09:51:50 AM
You're very right, Teemeah. Actually, it was a pleasure to read your input. I tend to see things through the eyes of a westerner, which I am. We openly discuss our problems, everybody knows who you're dating and if you head hurts and if your cat ate your pizza last night. But I feel like it's a very westerner thing to be this outspoken about whatever bothers you.

Your analysis is very correct. I was pretty shocked to learn that Toshi didn't learn of Yoshiki's father's suicide for years. I mean, he mentions it every two seconds these days. Because he's become a westerner of sorts, I believe, maybe it wasn't the case back in the day. It's incredibly weird that the whole brainwashing thing happened in the first place and that all the others could do was gaze in horror, shrug and walk away. I agree with you that the Japanese are not exactly keen on saying hey-here's-what's-bothering-me-lately, even in front of lifelong friends. That's a shame. They create strange coping mechanisms.

Off-topic, but another thing I noticed that people didn't seem to take seriously was Hide's alcoholism. I was digging through old translated interviews a few years ago and I was shocked at what I read. The guy mentioned drinking himself unconscious every night in every single interview. Plus, breaking bones and getting seriously sick after his drunken exploits. Interviewers appearently thought it was funny and lead him on. Some interviews consisted of the interviewer specifically asking him about his drinking habits and giving him more alcohol. In other interviews he mentions having mental and body image issues. I really liked the dude, but no wonder he's dead. I'd actually be surprised if he was alive. That's a society that makes it seem okay that you're a wreck, it's fine, it's part of your charm, blah blah. Weird.

Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 08, 2017, 12:28:41 PM
Hide never left the band, if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty sure he would have left it if he had lived, though. Towards the end he didn't fit at all. It's weird to look at him in the Last Live. His new style didn't fit with the band's new style, his crazy guitar was being seriously underused with the new, mostly ballad playlist, whatnot.

I have no idea if he played a part in Taiji's departure. If there were two guys in that band to pick trouble, that would have been those two, presumably with each other. Don't think Hide was double-faced either. A freak, but not really mean. Telling your boss you can no longer work with a specific co-worker is not a mean thing to do, though.

Veredict: Taiji stole somebody's hairspray and they got pissed. A shame. I really liked the dude.
That's the whole point, band must have a leader, not a boss. Yoshiki being bossy made Taiji act idiotic - steal spray, break things, get drunk, oppose him... I believe that wasn't a good combination for this band - one selfish and authoritative, one colorful and crazy, one with so strong feeling for truth and justice, one passive all the time and one who do his job as "the boss" says. This isn't a band, this is a circus - Yoshiki says "jump" and everybody jump. And let me repeat again - I don't judge the guy, he is amazing talent and so deep personality, just this is not the right way to treat people who work with you to make your dreams reality, because that's their dream too.
You don't know what you've got untill it's gone. I cannot imagine to compare new X with the old, original one.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 08, 2017, 01:59:52 PM
You're very right, Teemeah. Actually, it was a pleasure to read your input. I tend to see things through the eyes of a westerner, which I am. We openly discuss our problems, everybody knows who you're dating and if you head hurts and if your cat ate your pizza last night. But I feel like it's a very westerner thing to be this outspoken about whatever bothers you.

Your analysis is very correct. I was pretty shocked to learn that Toshi didn't learn of Yoshiki's father's suicide for years. I mean, he mentions it every two seconds these days. Because he's become a westerner of sorts, I believe, maybe it wasn't the case back in the day. It's incredibly weird that the whole brainwashing thing happened in the first place and that all the others could do was gaze in horror, shrug and walk away. I agree with you that the Japanese are not exactly keen on saying hey-here's-what's-bothering-me-lately, even in front of lifelong friends. That's a shame. They create strange coping mechanisms.

Off-topic, but another thing I noticed that people didn't seem to take seriously was Hide's alcoholism. I was digging through old translated interviews a few years ago and I was shocked at what I read. The guy mentioned drinking himself unconscious every night in every single interview. Plus, breaking bones and getting seriously sick after his drunken exploits. Interviewers appearently thought it was funny and lead him on. Some interviews consisted of the interviewer specifically asking him about his drinking habits and giving him more alcohol. In other interviews he mentions having mental and body image issues. I really liked the dude, but no wonder he's dead. I'd actually be surprised if he was alive. That's a society that makes it seem okay that you're a wreck, it's fine, it's part of your charm, blah blah. Weird.

Yes, I think Sugizo mentions in the docu that hide was reckless when he was drunk  - and he was often drunk. And friends don't care because that is what they learnt throughout their life from Japanese society: not to mess with other people's personal business. They may be worried about their friends inside, but they don't voice their worries! They were not stopping Pata from becoming an alcoholic, either.... even after losing hide in that way, through an accident due to alcohol abuse, they were still watching Pata get up and personal with Johhny Walker and we fans make jokes about it, when it is really not funny in reality and we could have lost this guy too early last year...

Hide did seem to have a lot mental issues, but that is like 90% of rock musicians, you need to be in a certain mental state to make this kind of music. Or to be an artist, at all. he did have body image issues, he mentioned this several times, that he was fat (or perceived himself as such) and alcohol is often taken as quick comfort for such issues... And the worst is that you are surrounded with people who have similar mental issues. Yoshiki is not 100% sane either, sunk into his own world of parental suicide and guilt and trying to cope for the rest of his life. Toshi has his own insecurities, which were made worse by Yoshiki pushing him too hard to achieve perfect sound and sing in English. Pata was probablz already an alcoholic in the late 1990s, Taiji obviously went downhill, becoming homeless and several of his teeth knocked out - he wasn't a 100% mentally stable, either.... Sugizo? Back then he was even worse than hide, with his alcoholism (and god knows what else) and his childhood scars of an abusive father. If 99% of your friends are equally emotionally and mentally disturbed, it is difficult to get out of your own problems unscathed. Or for them to recognise that there is something terribly wrong with you.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 08, 2017, 02:22:29 PM

That's the whole point, band must have a leader, not a boss. Yoshiki being bossy made Taiji act idiotic - steal spray, break things, get drunk, oppose him... I believe that wasn't a good combination for this band - one selfish and authoritative, one colorful and crazy, one with so strong feeling for truth and justice, one passive all the time and one who do his job as "the boss" says. This isn't a band, this is a circus - Yoshiki says "jump" and everybody jump. And let me repeat again - I don't judge the guy, he is amazing talent and so deep personality, just this is not the right way to treat people who work with you to make your dreams reality, because that's their dream too.
You don't know what you've got untill it's gone. I cannot imagine to compare new X with the old, original one.

Yoshiki has always been a boss and not a leader. This is not a new thing, this has been ever since he started making music, which more than FORTY years now. If you haven't accepted this since you became an X fan, I don't know what to say... :) He is unlikely to change. And yes it is a circus. Did you see at the last acoustic concert how Yoshiki went up to each member and told them what to shout into the microphone? He loves being the orchestrator, but this is HIM. This has always been him, and if he weren't this twisted, insane guy, we would have had no X to begin with. I think it is time that we start dropping the "but why Yoshiki doesn't let others do stuff" topic :) It's not anything new. yoshiki has been like that since age 10.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 08, 2017, 03:00:59 PM
I never said its from yesterday, I said I don't support such kind of beaviour. History proved it - everybody are expandable.
Just look at the result - Taiji, the Kamen rider ended in a jail for a crime he didn't do, with no friends, family or anything familiar around him,
voiceless and alone. Hide died drunk and in an absurd accident, alone. Yoshiki is about to die if he didn't calm down and keep pressure himself like this. All of these things are signs, but nobody seems to see them or at least care a little bit. As the legend Blackie Lawless said: Look what fame has done to me. Enough is enough, life give everybody a chance, more people waste it, trying to get everything, to become immortal. After all, life reminds all of us nothing last forever.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 08, 2017, 03:31:55 PM
It's quite interesting, though. Personally, I find Yoshiki quite interesting. In a case study sort of way. I worked as a therapist and studied psychology for a while. This is the kind of personality that I liked to study. I can't quite put my finger on whether the guy is mental or if he does it for show. My guess is both. He's mental but while most mentally ill people hide it, Yoshiki learned how to flaunt the romantic parts of it to up his charm. He too has mentioned in the documentary an in at least one interview that he goes through entire weeks without sleeping, then binge drinks and sleeps 10 hours straight, then starts again. In the West, this kind of allegation would be a cause for serious concern, yet he said it in publicly as if it was perfectly normal. In his head, it is his own business and his fans probably think it's pretty cool that somebody is able to live like that. I find the parental suicide thing interesting as well. His reaction to the whole ordeal doesn't really fit the pattern. His mention of being angry all the time and smashing things ans being suicidal is textbook. But then he seems to deviate from the path. Children who have lost their father at a young age tend to be alienated and numb, they don't usually start superbands nor do they compose genious music. A texbook case is a person who shows no particular feeling about a parent who decided to quit their parental responsibilities. Very few people actually talk about it. He seems to have taken the opposite path. His mention of the "suicide scene" in the doc is also very vivid, an unusual thing. I would say he has a severe chronic case of PSTD, maybe not only due to his father's death but to something that was happening beforehand as well, seeing his father down due to financial issues, parents arguing, being ignored maybe? If that's the case, that would explain the bossy behaviour pretty well. The fatherless individual tends to assume the fatherly role later in life and believe he/she is the only one able to lead the 'family'.

As for Hide, very little is known about him, but what is known is a huge red flag. There's no previous life event (known publicly) that would explain such a dependance on alcohol (he mentions drinking heavily and having major stomach issues due to that in interviews in the late 80s, when he wasn't even famous, so you can't blame it all on fame.) Since I'm playing therapist, I would say he had some kind of eating disorder (based on his own interviews and his mother's). Bulimia, most likely, since bulimics tend to adopt the binge eating reflex when it comes to alcohol and drugs as well. There's no evidence for this whatsoever, but I think he might have considered switching genders as well, at some point in his life. Except society in Japan back in day wasn't what it is today and assuming you're transgender would have been a huge deal. Again, not that he mentioned this. But I had to deal with transgender patients in the past and I think some patterns apply: extreme concern about body image, refusal to show skin, body image issues, drugs and alcohol, wearing feminine clothes that have previously been worn by a woman (Hide mentioned that his stage clothes were mostly his grandmother's), etc.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 08, 2017, 05:04:15 PM
My respect, but you cannot expect everybody to act the same. Don't judge for everybody by some books, human mind is much more deeper. Yoshiki hides much more than he express.
There's no need of explanation, every single person have his own tragedy, if it was so easy to cure mind trauma everyone should walk with a book and be a master of mind.
X is not the only, but maybe the band with the most tragedy in it's existing. Yoshiki is killing himself, and I am actually sick and tired of these crying emoticons under every publication on his profile, but if he doesn't stop I should have to cover some painting on the wall to paint his face next to Taiji and Hide.

And you are wrong about one thing - being numb isn't a diagnose, it's a condition which is not permanent, it's temporary. Human brain is made to avoid some painful moments from our life, but not for long. When that person realise what happened there are two possibilities - he becomes violent and looking for every possible subject that can be similar to the one who caused him pain, and hurt him. Second is to become self destructive and turn that hate/pain inward. Human mind and body aren't incorruptible, we know enough examples for such bands, destroyed from the inside. Last one is Chester Bennington. Let me say it like this - I am tired lighting candles for people I care about or at least I like, and who gave my life some purpose.

Let's go at the Yoshiki topic, we are flooding here.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 08, 2017, 09:05:12 PM
It's quite interesting, though. Personally, I find Yoshiki quite interesting. In a case study sort of way. I worked as a therapist and studied psychology for a while. This is the kind of personality that I liked to study. I can't quite put my finger on whether the guy is mental or if he does it for show. My guess is both. He's mental but while most mentally ill people hide it, Yoshiki learned how to flaunt the romantic parts of it to up his charm. He too has mentioned in the documentary an in at least one interview that he goes through entire weeks without sleeping, then binge drinks and sleeps 10 hours straight, then starts again. In the West, this kind of allegation would be a cause for serious concern, yet he said it in publicly as if it was perfectly normal. In his head, it is his own business and his fans probably think it's pretty cool that somebody is able to live like that. I find the parental suicide thing interesting as well. His reaction to the whole ordeal doesn't really fit the pattern. His mention of being angry all the time and smashing things ans being suicidal is textbook. But then he seems to deviate from the path. Children who have lost their father at a young age tend to be alienated and numb, they don't usually start superbands nor do they compose genious music. A texbook case is a person who shows no particular feeling about a parent who decided to quit their parental responsibilities. Very few people actually talk about it. He seems to have taken the opposite path. His mention of the "suicide scene" in the doc is also very vivid, an unusual thing. I would say he has a severe chronic case of PSTD, maybe not only due to his father's death but to something that was happening beforehand as well, seeing his father down due to financial issues, parents arguing, being ignored maybe? If that's the case, that would explain the bossy behaviour pretty well. The fatherless individual tends to assume the fatherly role later in life and believe he/she is the only one able to lead the 'family'.

As for Hide, very little is known about him, but what is known is a huge red flag. There's no previous life event (known publicly) that would explain such a dependance on alcohol (he mentions drinking heavily and having major stomach issues due to that in interviews in the late 80s, when he wasn't even famous, so you can't blame it all on fame.) Since I'm playing therapist, I would say he had some kind of eating disorder (based on his own interviews and his mother's). Bulimia, most likely, since bulimics tend to adopt the binge eating reflex when it comes to alcohol and drugs as well. There's no evidence for this whatsoever, but I think he might have considered switching genders as well, at some point in his life. Except society in Japan back in day wasn't what it is today and assuming you're transgender would have been a huge deal. Again, not that he mentioned this. But I had to deal with transgender patients in the past and I think some patterns apply: extreme concern about body image, refusal to show skin, body image issues, drugs and alcohol, wearing feminine clothes that have previously been worn by a woman (Hide mentioned that his stage clothes were mostly his grandmother's), etc.

It's very interesting, I always wondered what a psychologist would say about Yoshiki. He IS a tremendous case study. Of course you cannot really analyze anyone wihtout talking to them, and for Yoshiki, anything he does in front of cameras is part of his show, whether funded by real emotions or played up. Different people react to a missing parent differently. Some people are more sensitive and they become artists or turn to art in some way. There are plenty of such examples in the world. And I also think that what makes X so attractive to those who like them is because all of us fans suffered something similar in our lives.Whether it is loss of a family member or some kind of other shock. X fans are just as broken, and Yoshiki's music resonates with us. Of course I cannot speak for everyone, this is just my opinion. I lost a father too, not to death, but to severe alcoholism, I still refuse to talk to him. I don't think I'm numb and I am pretty open to talking about it, too. :) I did turn to writing, though, a form of art. :)
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 09, 2017, 09:29:21 AM
I'm sorry for your dad, Teemeah. Agree with you.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: xjapanboi on August 11, 2017, 10:21:47 AM
Hide never left the band, if I'm not wrong. I'm pretty sure he would have left it if he had lived, though. Towards the end he didn't fit at all. It's weird to look at him in the Last Live. His new style didn't fit with the band's new style, his crazy guitar was being seriously underused with the new, mostly ballad playlist, whatnot.

I have no idea if he played a part in Taiji's departure. If there were two guys in that band to pick trouble, that would have been those two, presumably with each other. Don't think Hide was double-faced either. A freak, but not really mean. Telling your boss you can no longer work with a specific co-worker is not a mean thing to do, though.

Veredict: Taiji stole somebody's hairspray and they got pissed. A shame. I really liked the dude.

have you even watched the " We Are X" documentary?  Yoshiki clearly said he and Hide had the intention in finding a new vocalist for X-Japan. so how could you say he had lost his love and passion for X-Japan? the old version says after Toshi confirm to Yoshiki that he would leave X-Japan then Yoshiki and Hide attempted to find a replacement. but in the end they cannot find one that fits for their music style as all the songs were written and designed for Toshi unique voice. so they ended up disbanding instead. but then in the documentary. he says that they were finding a new vocalist after the disbandment.but either way, it goes to prove Hide always wanted to continue X-Japan.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 11, 2017, 10:44:47 AM
Sure I have. I have seen it over 5 times. I'm very familiar with their story. I know the official version is that Yoshiki and Hide were super pumped about finding a new vocalist and reuniting in 2000 and yada yada. That's not the issue. It's a matter of personal feeling. I feel that it wouldn't have worked anyway and that Hide and Yoshiki would have ended up going separate ways, no matter what. Yoshiki was going more and more classical, fancying ballads and dressing pretty much like a normie. Hide was going weirder by the day and achieving more and more success in his solo career. Note that Hide wasn't born a vocalist. He started working on his vocals while still in X, in order to pursue his solo career. At first, he wouldn't sing at all. Towards the end, he was the vocalist for all of his bands. Marilyn Manson wanted to tour with him. He was spending most of his time in America. Had he lived and learned some English (note that he didn't speak it at all), his solo career would have explosed and he would probably have achieved worldwide success. I don't think he could manage both.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: xjapanboi on August 11, 2017, 11:04:12 AM
Sure I have. I have seen it over 5 times. I'm very familiar with their story. I know the official version is that Yoshiki and Hide were super pumped about finding a new vocalist and reuniting in 2000 and yada yada. That's not the issue. It's a matter of personal feeling. I feel that it wouldn't have worked anyway and that Hide and Yoshiki would have ended up going separate ways, no matter what. Yoshiki was going more and more classical, fancying ballads and dressing pretty much like a normie. Hide was going weirder by the day and achieving more and more success in his solo career. Note that Hide wasn't born a vocalist. He started working on his vocals while still in X, in order to pursue his solo career. At first, he wouldn't sing at all. Towards the end, he was the vocalist for all of his bands. Marilyn Manson wanted to tour with him. He was spending most of his time in America. Had he lived and learned some English (note that he didn't speak it at all), his solo career would have explosed and he would probably have achieved worldwide success. I don't think he could manage both.

i kinda agree, I think even with a new lineup. they would not achieve any thing super outstanding in music. they would be good for reunion tours playing their old classics. at that time,Yoshiki,didnt seem very productive either. but on the other hand, Hide was super productive . he made so many super hits.  people loved his style. he was the only member that insist on keeping the " Visual Kei" style. with very loud fashion statement. at that time, Visual Kei was kinda out of date.trend at that time was band members dressing in dark suit and minimalist  style clothes.  his late style  looked little resemble  David Bowie life on mars style. to me, he looked very avant-garde.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 11, 2017, 02:56:23 PM
Hide became super popular after he died. His death elevated him into iconic status. His million selling album went million posthumously. Had he lived, he would have probably faded away after a couple of years with the rest of X, and the rest of older visual kei bands. Visual kei was going out of date, and rock music was increasingly pushed back by idol pop. I was checking the sales numbers year by year and for visual kei bands it was going downhill in the early 2000s. I also doubt hide would have achieved worlwide fame in solo. Americans are pretty narrow minded, and no matter how well he would learn English (it's increasingly difficult to learn a language properly the older you get, look at Yoshiki, 20 years in the US and his English is still mediocre at best), Americans would never let a slanted eyed Asian conquer their charts.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 17, 2017, 02:20:20 AM

have you even watched the " We Are X" documentary?  Yoshiki clearly said he and Hide had the intention in finding a new vocalist for X-Japan. so how could you say he had lost his love and passion for X-Japan? the old version says after Toshi confirm to Yoshiki that he would leave X-Japan then Yoshiki and Hide attempted to find a replacement. but in the end they cannot find one that fits for their music style as all the songs were written and designed for Toshi unique voice. so they ended up disbanding instead. but then in the documentary. he says that they were finding a new vocalist after the disbandment.but either way, it goes to prove Hide always wanted to continue X-Japan.
Ok... I am a little bit confused. I didn't watched the film but I will as soon as I can. Negative impression I have about Yoshiki is just growing up no matter I am trying to like him. So he fired Taiji. He wanted to replace Toshi. The fact he is talking about his dead band members with no shame, making a scandal from something nobody prove but him. And I heard, I don't claim it's true, I don't even know who that one was... that he fired a guitarist to get another one because he was asked, then he tried to appology but the old guitarist didn't wanted to come back. Sorry for the sloppy explanation, I really didn't get that serious when I read it.

About Hide... Well he was something never seen before, but I don't think he would get out of date if he lived. World is changing, people too. After all, he outrun his own time.
For americans - I agree. "They love you when you on the cover, when you're not they love another."

What I am supposed to say here? Support X as a band, or X as a Yoshiki project? Support Hide who was ultimate tallent no matter if people said it, or it was Yoshiki did it himself, that he was one of the reasons Taiji was fired? Or support Taiji because he was one of the best people in showbusiness I've  ever seen, fame didn't corrupted him, didn't stole his soul, it doesn't changed him at all!
I just think it's not enough music and too much drama in this band. We all feel sorry for Yohiki and his condition, but he is trying to make another sensation from his illness. Don't let your pain and tragedy turn you into something you are not - we all have one, right? We all have our personal drama and something hidden in the depth of our mind that ruined so many great moments and new opportunities in our life. Strong people just swallow it, stand up, swear and keep going, silently. I have to agree with Taiji here - you love him, hate him, adore him and at the same moment curse him, Yoshiki is something so complex that can't be explained with a few words. But after all, his music does. And the way he treat his mates.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 17, 2017, 08:39:08 AM
Everyone is different, we are all different. You cannot pull Taiji's mold on Yoshiki. Everyone deals with their pain and losses in a different way. (Pata drinks himself into alcoholism, Toshi allowed himself to be brainwashed because he couldn't deal with his own problems alone, hide was just as much an alcoholic as Pata, with body image issues, and I'm pretty sure Taiji wasn't an angel, either.)

Yoshiki chose to express his own pain in his music and on social media. He was not a very talkative person about his own life back in those days. Even his birthdate was long just known as X, along with his family name being written as X, too. I believe that Yoshiki is not only a very complex personality but he is seriously broken mentally. And that, my friend, is not a joke. He craves to be loved, that's why he posts about his pain and surgery and whatnot on Instagram and indulges in reading those hello-kitty-nurse-fans expressing their love and admiration.

I think he is a pretty lonely man, who has nothing else left just music and his fans. That's probably why he has all those milion sideprojects besides X, he HAS to work, he has to be in motion all the time, otherwise he would probably kill himself, being left alone. If you think about it, it is a pretty sad thing, to live a life like this. And with his personality, pride and being a Japanese male, he will not seek professional help.

X's music was born of the same method, that he chose to express his inner turmoil in music. Had he ever been a normal person, we would not have X Japan now. So loathing him for his personality basically means you trash the one thing that made X Japan what it is. The one thing that produced those songs you listen to. "Strong people just swallow it, stand up, swear and keep going, silently", yeah, had Yoshiki been strong enough to swallow his problems and just keep going silently, you wouldn't have these songs. NONE OF THEM would exist. You cannot separate a person's creative mind from his emotions and personality. If he were able to deal with his problems in other ways, there would be no need for him to make music.

And just to put things in perspective: Taiji wasn't able to deal with his own problems alone, either. Neither was hide able to subdue his alcholoism. And Pata needed a life-threating medical condition to cut back on alcohol, too. Toshi needed a serious kick in the butt to wake up. But Yoshiki's ways of dealing with his own problems are intertwined with his abilities to make music. Take away his problems, and there will be no music.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 17, 2017, 09:22:12 AM
Guys, it's pretty difficult to analyse the personality of someone you only know through their music and social media presence, bit I think Teemeah just nailed it. Yoshiki changed a lot when he left Japan. He seems to have attempted to pull out the "rich celeb rockstar surrounded by babes" but kind of failed at it. He became a lot more outspoken about his feelings and life in general, though. Before Hide's death, he didn't talk of his father's death nor of his physical pain nor of being fucked up or anything. He made music and cross-dressed and that was it. Fans idolized these guys but knew nothing about them. Hide was the only one who seemed to cross the threshold between the band's private life and the fans through his blog, meeting sick fans, giving (mostly drunken) interviews, filming his recording routine in LA with his solo projects...

I agree that he's a very lonely guy. Fame does that to you. He might have friends, but it might not be easy to have true friends when you have his money and his status. The guy himself probably chooses his friends based on what they can bring him. When you're Yoshiki, you don't just go out for drinks with the guy you met at the bus station because he happened to be friendly and whatnot, there's a lot of unspoken rules about who you can hang out with when you reach a certain level. Same goes for romantic relationships. You can't just let things happen naturally with someone you met at a bar and it's probably really weird to go out with a fan (think of all you represent to that person and the burden that is trying not to disapoint them). Yup, life is glam and comfortable when you're a celeb, but your social life becomes a very unnnatural thing.

That being said, I don't think Yoshiki is a bad guy. I think he's a very intelligent and ambitious guy and sort of a citizen of the world trapped in the body/mindset of a Japanese. He wanted to do more with X than even his own bandmembers wanted themselves, aimed way too high, probably hurt a lot of people in the process - yup, Toshi not handling all the "let's be a world band" pressure, Taiji disagreeing with whatever he disagreed with, the other guys turning to alcohol, a constant hiring and firing of managers and agents, you name it. He seems to live with the guilt of all the bad things that ever happened around him - well, it's nobody's fault but living around a guy like Yoshiki is probably not so nice for your mental health.

As for his perception of the whole thing (eugh, talking like a therapist again), when this happens, you place yourself in the center of it all: had he not been born or had he been born different, his father would have dealt with less problems and would have lived. Had he not dragged the introverted and calm Toshi into his rockstar dreams, he wouldn't have ended up fucked up and joining a cult. Had he not met Hide and insisted he join the band, Hide would today be a happy and slightly insane middle-aged hairdresser in his little town. Had he not done whatever made Taiji mad, he wouldn't have suffered the shock of being fired and not finding success with his later projects that sent him into a downward spiral when he started to age. On the brighter side, a kazillion people out there seem to understand him and like him a lot. That creates confusion. You cannot understand why, yet you crave that blind acceptance, so you do everything you can to please them.

Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 17, 2017, 12:12:43 PM
Absolutely agree. Yoshiki doesn't seem like someone who would intentionally hurt anyone around him and then laugh about it. He is fucked up. As fucked up as anyone with his kind of creative abilities AND mental issues can be. And we are all really different in handling stress and loss. Some people get up and fight silently, others go literally crazy and end up in a lunatic asylum, others kill themselves to escape their issues. Yoshiki put his frustration into his artistic life. But he is a narcisstic personality, he values "me" more than anything else. Everything, including his friends come after satisfying the needs of "me".

I agree that he aimed too high. He really wanted X to succeed overseas and probably pushed everyone around him like crazy. Toshi was unable to handle the pressure and mentally collapsed enough for that cult to be able to turn off the emergency whistle in his head and accept their "helping hand" blindly. It took them YEARS to change him from inside out - and all the while Yoshiki (or the other members for that matter) didn't even notice a thing. Because they were not talking.

If you listen to interviews with people around Yoshiki, none of them have bad opinions about him. Even those sound engineers and other staff that left long ago because they also could not handle the pressure for long, they admire his abilities and the only negative thing they mention is that he is a fussy boss, and incredibly demanding of the people he works with. Because he knows what he wants to achieve and won't settle for anything less. But all describe him as an otherwise nice guy. And all of them are blown away by his creative mind.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on August 17, 2017, 01:23:55 PM
Pretty much this. The creative genius is hard to define and hard to tame, but usually selfless. I don't think Yoshiki puts the "me" before others, I think he is very well aware of his own talent and abilities, but equally aware of how hard it is to be the captain of such a huge ship. I think the Japanese are probably pretty difficult to work with when you aim high, as well. The genius sometimes creates something so much bigger and heavier then themselves they're completely unprepared to control it. Either you drop it and shy away or you put all of your energy into that task, you become a makeshift captain. Truth be told and like it or not, if Yoshiki chose to be modest and adopt a Pata-ish plan of action, we wouldn't be discussing X here - because we would never have heard of X in the West.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: returner on August 17, 2017, 04:30:08 PM
I really liked reading these musings. I think you guys all hit the nail on the head and it even had me look at a few things differently. Without Yoshiki being who he is there would be no music for X Japan to create.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on August 17, 2017, 06:19:12 PM
Truth be told and like it or not, if Yoshiki chose to be modest and adopt a Pata-ish plan of action, we wouldn't be discussing X here - because we would never have heard of X in the West.

and X at all, had Yoshiki not have the ambition..... they would have probably ended up playing in small bars to 20 to 50 people on weekends while doing regular jobs on the side. And Yoshiki would probably already be dead, because repetitive day jobs are really not a thing for him. He is alive because X made it, and he can let his creative juices flow without having to worry about how to pay bills or get food. The others pretty much had regular jobs and would have been able to live like that, even hide. We know Pata used to work in a video shop, Heath did heavy labor at the railways, hide was a hairdresser. Toshi could have easily gone to get a PE teacher degree with his affinity to sports. But Yoshiki, he would have ended up back at his mother's house, and after a while he would have ended his life, not being able to let all that pain out.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Aries on August 18, 2017, 02:18:54 PM
Everyone is different, we are all different. You cannot pull Taiji's mold on Yoshiki. Everyone deals with their pain and losses in a different way. (Pata drinks himself into alcoholism, Toshi allowed himself to be brainwashed because he couldn't deal with his own problems alone, hide was just as much an alcoholic as Pata, with body image issues, and I'm pretty sure Taiji wasn't an angel, either.)

Yoshiki chose to express his own pain in his music and on social media. He was not a very talkative person about his own life back in those days. Even his birthdate was long just known as X, along with his family name being written as X, too. I believe that Yoshiki is not only a very complex personality but he is seriously broken mentally. And that, my friend, is not a joke. He craves to be loved, that's why he posts about his pain and surgery and whatnot on Instagram and indulges in reading those hello-kitty-nurse-fans expressing their love and admiration.

I think he is a pretty lonely man, who has nothing else left just music and his fans. That's probably why he has all those milion sideprojects besides X, he HAS to work, he has to be in motion all the time, otherwise he would probably kill himself, being left alone. If you think about it, it is a pretty sad thing, to live a life like this. And with his personality, pride and being a Japanese male, he will not seek professional help.

X's music was born of the same method, that he chose to express his inner turmoil in music. Had he ever been a normal person, we would not have X Japan now. So loathing him for his personality basically means you trash the one thing that made X Japan what it is. The one thing that produced those songs you listen to. "Strong people just swallow it, stand up, swear and keep going, silently", yeah, had Yoshiki been strong enough to swallow his problems and just keep going silently, you wouldn't have these songs. NONE OF THEM would exist. You cannot separate a person's creative mind from his emotions and personality. If he were able to deal with his problems in other ways, there would be no need for him to make music.

And just to put things in perspective: Taiji wasn't able to deal with his own problems alone, either. Neither was hide able to subdue his alcholoism. And Pata needed a life-threating medical condition to cut back on alcohol, too. Toshi needed a serious kick in the butt to wake up. But Yoshiki's ways of dealing with his own problems are intertwined with his abilities to make music. Take away his problems, and there will be no music.

It's enough to listen their music to see how hard the past of everyone of them was. As one of my teachers used to say - art can't lie. You can refuse to say it, but your art speaks clear enough. And I never said anyone of them was an angel and Yoshiki wasn't fair, perhaps he was, perhaps Taiji crossed the line, not once or twise. But he is the arbitter in a band of many people, where they must be equal. Yoshiki may be alone in life, I don't even know about his personal life and it's not my business to dig, but seeing the entire world respond to your pain, joy, to repeat lyrics you wrote, inspired by your own misery and those people say they feel the same - I think it's more than being friend with someone or fall in love.

And I think I don't need to point out that many of these people are ready to die for him, for the band. If Yoshiki ask they will bleed for him, donate organs for him, even kill for him. Yes, some people are broken, but it's your choise to become a victim or stand up and survive, despite everything. Many of us are hurt and damaged, not all of us had his chance - to speak loud, people to embrace his idea and change because of it. What happened to Chester from Linkin Park? He was at the bottom when he decided to fight, at the end pain finished him, but the fact he tried to fight helped many people not to end like he did. I think this is huge, this is the biggest thing you can do in your life - help someone else. Is that now that we all are happy he have a problems and we want him to keep suffer just to listen more music?
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: LEMONedMe on November 15, 2017, 10:04:37 PM
Thanks for all this discussion going on, here.  I haven't joined in, yet, and not sure if I will because you all are covering pretty much everything but it sure is good information and very informative to read!
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: kayabee on November 16, 2017, 02:01:38 AM
my guess is drugs, but i think it's more than yoshiki just saying 'we didn't like each other'. I'm sure if he was still alive it would have been talked about, but if it was something bad, you usually don't talk about it, especially if the person is dead because it's just disrespecting them. No one will ever know. I think it was a mix of things, but i know before he died they reconciled and yoshiki did send him to rehab so I think they didn't hate each other just had differences when it came to it, but trust me, them just having differences isn't the reason he was fired. it was something more and we'll never know because when a person passes you don't talk about the bad things they've done.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Guruxo on November 16, 2017, 02:04:21 PM
I think that Taiji was fired because of drugs also. I remember reading somewhere (not sure where, sorry) that the band made a rule not to do any illegal drugs, and there are a few pictures of Taiji online with marijuana paraphernalia, so perhaps he smoked it? My guess is that perhaps Taiji tried drugs and was fired by Yoshiki as a result. I suppose we'll never know the true reason why Taiji was fired  :(
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on November 17, 2017, 09:19:09 AM
Fired for smoking a joint? Bro, that's harsh. But yeah, maybe. We don't know if the anti-drugs thing is even for real. If you're in a position like Yoshiki's, I wouldn't expect him to say drugs are awesome and we did them all the time and it was great, try them as well, y'all! Drugs are not as common or readily available in Japan as they are in the West, though. 

Official versions are: 1. Hide and Taiji fought way too much and Yoshiki had to choose between the two (according to Yoshiki's biographer), 2. Taiji got pissed because Yoshiki was making WAAAAY more money than the rest of them (according to Taiji).

My version: the two just couldn't stand each other. Yoshiki then embelished the story by suggesting Taiji had done something terrible to make it more interesting.

Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Guruxo on November 17, 2017, 03:45:58 PM
Fired for smoking a joint? Bro, that's harsh. But yeah, maybe. We don't know if the anti-drugs thing is even for real. If you're in a position like Yoshiki's, I wouldn't expect him to say drugs are awesome and we did them all the time and it was great, try them as well, y'all! Drugs are not as common or readily available in Japan as they are in the West, though. 

Official versions are: 1. Hide and Taiji fought way too much and Yoshiki had to choose between the two (according to Yoshiki's biographer), 2. Taiji got pissed because Yoshiki was making WAAAAY more money than the rest of them (according to Taiji).

My version: the two just couldn't stand each other. Yoshiki then embelished the story by suggesting Taiji had done something terrible to make it more interesting.





Maybe. I'm not sure about the anti-drugs rule myself, since I can't find the source and firing someone from a band for smoking a joint seems harsh, especially since X were all about rebelling against society back then.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on November 17, 2017, 04:49:18 PM
Ok, maybe it was more than one joint.  ;D
I would need to know more about Japan to decide whether drugs were the likely culprit or not, or how society looks upon drug users. A Jap friend once told me drugs in Japan are fairly rare, by no means as widespread as they are in the West. Even less in the 80s. But if anyone was into them back then, it would probably have been the rockstar crowd. 

Taiji's life story really gives me the drug vibe. But maybe that's just me. For some reason, I also get the feeling Hide was into some sort of speed or accid or both. Again, it might be just me. I don't get that feeling from any of the others, though Yoshiki could definitely use some Valium.  :o
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: Teemeah on November 17, 2017, 10:01:33 PM
Hide was a certified alcoholic. He probably didn't have much interest in other forms of self-destruction, considering he was mostly spending his days drinking for hours (he himself said so in an interview). Taiji's story is more like a drug addict, getting totally run down, ending up on the street, with knocked out teeth and such... Especially that even though all of them drank heavily, hide and Pata were known as THE alcoholics of the bunch.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: LEMONedMe on November 20, 2017, 01:36:28 AM
I've got a reddit page open where people are discussing drug use in Japan.  The posts are archived and from at least 3 years ago.  Marijuana is highly illegal or was at that time.  Ecstasy and methamphetamines are more popular if you can call it that.  If a person got caught with just an empty marijuana bag or bag that had marijuana in it, they would wind up in prison.  But alcohol is most prominent and it sounds like alcohol is ok.  Hmmm.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: matsumoto on November 20, 2017, 09:04:04 AM
Yeah, funny enough you see a lot of pictures of Japs slumped over tabled pissed drunk. But you never ever get to see a Jap junkie.

Taiji allegedly had his teeth knocked out during a fight but it had to be one hell of a fight. Meth caused severe tooth decay, I'd probably go with that. His whole life story is consistant with some sort of drug use. Poor dude.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: LEMONedMe on November 20, 2017, 12:12:04 PM
Yes, I agree.  I worked with a lot of people who used meth or around them and many had very bad teeth or teeth were broken off especially in the fronts of their mouths.  It does awful things to teeth and really makes a person look bad, in every way.  Some can look like they aged 30 or more years.  Not good!
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: TaijiSawada on January 14, 2020, 04:31:09 PM
Sorry to bump up such an old topic, but I remembered a Reddit post written by Yoshiki himself about the whole situation (here's the link https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4a9o6b/i_am_yoshiki_pianist_drummer_and_leader_of_x/d0yim3p/ ). Seems like hide was involved in one way or another too...
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: OmniaDei on January 15, 2020, 05:49:47 AM
Sorry to bump up such an old topic, but I remembered a Reddit post written by Yoshiki himself about the whole situation (here's the link https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4a9o6b/i_am_yoshiki_pianist_drummer_and_leader_of_x/d0yim3p/ ). Seems like hide was involved in one way or another too...

As older replies said, there exist two versions of how Taiji left the band, depending on whose biography you believe. According to Yoshiki's biography hide was very angry with Taiji but that wasn't the main reason how Taiji got fired. Yoshiki made the decision to fire Taiji alone, and hide with other members only were told after the fact. This occurred exactly on 1992 New Year's Eve. Taiji claimed that he was fired earlier in December 1991 and assumed Yoshiki already consulted with hide, and claimed he heard hide was seen crying on New Year's eve. Whichever version is true or partially true, what we know is that hide was indeed crying in On the Verge of Destruction, and there are sources out there claiming to have seen hide visibly upset after the New Year's eve Rokcmaykan party. However, you can interpret it both ways, hide could have either been sympathetic to Taiji's departure, or he could have just felt sorry for making him leave.

Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: nb on January 15, 2020, 08:05:30 PM
Sorry to bump up such an old topic, but I remembered a Reddit post written by Yoshiki himself about the whole situation (here's the link https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4a9o6b/i_am_yoshiki_pianist_drummer_and_leader_of_x/d0yim3p/ ). Seems like hide was involved in one way or another too...

No probs here to bump old topics ;)

In Taijis book it says he was fired bcs he asked for equal splits for every musician. He also said, Yoshiki is very two-faced.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: OmniaDei on January 17, 2020, 02:26:31 AM
Sorry to bump up such an old topic, but I remembered a Reddit post written by Yoshiki himself about the whole situation (here's the link https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4a9o6b/i_am_yoshiki_pianist_drummer_and_leader_of_x/d0yim3p/ ). Seems like hide was involved in one way or another too...

No probs here to bump old topics ;)

In Taijis book it says he was fired bcs he asked for equal splits for every musician. He also said, Yoshiki is very two-faced.

While Yoshiki does have his own problems, I think this part of Taiji's book was probably taken out of in certain fan translations. This was more about how Yoshiki was both "an angel and a devil" with duality in his personality if I remember correctly, than about how Yoshiki was too-faced as in the English context (Taiji definitely did not mean that Yoshiki's personality was fake or that Yoshiki says fake things, which is what "too-faced" would suggest in English).
Also I personally find money & copyright unlikely to be the central reason, even though it probably played a part too. However this has always been an unclear thing, so I honestly can' t be certain either.

Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: TaijiSawada on January 17, 2020, 11:22:04 AM
Also I personally find money & copyright unlikely to be the central reason, even though it probably played a part too. However this has always been an unclear thing, so I honestly can' t be certain either.

Me too. Honestly, Yoshiki is way too secretive and the way he brings back the topic of Taiji being fired (in the movie) without allowing the interviewer to get an explanation is confusing to say the least. The only things I can think of are personal threats, violence involved-- and he doesn't want to disclose that information easily to keep Taiji's memory pristine.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: nb on January 17, 2020, 08:17:39 PM
I do understand your point of view. I honestly have no idea. oc I have my own thoughts about it.

I thought about someone fucked with the others girlfriend or took drugs or anything.
Another idea and not particularly my opinion, but could it also be possible that Yoshiki won't say the actual reason bcs it would show him (Yoshiki) in a bad light? (I'm not sure if this is correct English, since I'm not a native speaker). Or maybe Yoshiki also is thinking that the reason was a bit childish and he doesn't want to talk about it anymore?

On the other hand, I don't think it's totally wrong to debate the possibility Yoshiki kicked him because of business reasons or questioning Yoshiki too much. I mean, read in Toshis book. Yoshiki don't like any criticism at all and is very harsh when someone questions him or is not as good as Yoshikis standards. Look at how sad, wasted and lonely Toshi felt at the time he started dating wanku.

But yeah, idk. It's also possible Yoshiki was sick of Taijis constant complaining. And it seems he had a little backup of hide...

We'll never know.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: TaijiSawada on January 18, 2020, 05:23:00 AM
Another idea and not particularly my opinion, but could it also be possible that Yoshiki won't say the actual reason bcs it would show him (Yoshiki) in a bad light? (I'm not sure if this is correct English, since I'm not a native speaker). Or maybe Yoshiki also is thinking that the reason was a bit childish and he doesn't want to talk about it anymore?

it might very well be that both reasons are one. Maybe a "childish reason that would also have put him in a bad light". What's certain is that almost everybody in their entourage knew that the break up was imminent, and Yoshiki spread the 'rumor' soon to be confirmed... I recall that paragraph from Taiji's autobiography where he speaks about his future without X in those terms... " My departure from X was inevitable. When I think about it now, wasn't everyone saying things like that when I wasn't around?"
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: OmniaDei on January 20, 2020, 02:31:54 AM
Another idea and not particularly my opinion, but could it also be possible that Yoshiki won't say the actual reason bcs it would show him (Yoshiki) in a bad light? (I'm not sure if this is correct English, since I'm not a native speaker). Or maybe Yoshiki also is thinking that the reason was a bit childish and he doesn't want to talk about it anymore?

it might very well be that both reasons are one. Maybe a "childish reason that would also have put him in a bad light". What's certain is that almost everybody in their entourage knew that the break up was imminent, and Yoshiki spread the 'rumor' soon to be confirmed... I recall that paragraph from Taiji's autobiography where he speaks about his future without X in those terms... " My departure from X was inevitable. When I think about it now, wasn't everyone saying things like that when I wasn't around?"

He only sort of retroactively realized he was destined to get fired, but when Yoshiki brought it up with him, Taiji's first reaction was still "wtf are you saying man," which means whatever he did to get fired, at that specific time he didn't realize that was a huge issue, so that might rule out some wild guesses out there...

I sort of get the feeling that the ultimate trigger to him getting fired must have happened really quickly, cuz timeline-wise, those larger issues like money, contracts or whatever could still wait, but when Yoshiki fired Taiji they literally was a few days away from the three-day Tokyo Dome concerts, and Yoshiki wasn't even thinking about this huge thing when he decided to let Taiji go. They had to literally negotiate (with staff) before Taiji at least had a chance to do the Tokyo Dome concerts to exit X properly. If it's about money & album copyright, Yoshiki could honestly just wait till Tokyo Dome's over before firing him. If the central issue wasn't an urgent thing, why such a hurry then?

Besides all kinds of crazy rumors out there (i'm pretty sure "underage groupie" wasn't the issue, even if there was any), there are two more likely hypotheses that were not brought up. 1. Taiji got too close with Loudness and when Yamashita quit, he probably promised to be involved with their next album without consulting Yoshiki. X members and staff were supposedly already unhappy with him making friends with Loudness. 2. Remember all X members spent half a year in LA under stressful recording conditions and lived in the same apartment for a while, and if drugs were involved at some point, it's not like Taiji could hide it from the others, and he would probably not be the only one doing it. However, it was likely that either he was talking too much once everybody got back to Japan, or he wasn't stopping the drugs when all others had stopped.
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: TaijiSawada on July 26, 2020, 08:07:20 AM
recently stumbled across this: https://ameblo.jp/xjapanxx/entry-10977113468.html

"In 1992, He left the band because, according to the official press release, he had “musical differences” with the group. However, in Taiji’s autobiography Uchuu o Kakeru Tomo e: Densetsu no Bando X no Sei to Shi he says that, in truth, he was asked to leave because he confronted Yoshiki about the substantial income gap between Yoshiki and the other band members"

that would also explain why Yoshiki was so secretive about it in "We are X"
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: ReturnReturner on July 27, 2020, 01:20:32 AM
So, not that I can't imagine that conversation taking place, but why has it not been brought up before after all this time?

Taiji's book was released years ago and we've had people link translations. Taiji being fired was and always will be a huge part of X's history yet even Japanese fans have said the true reason why has been a mystery.

I just cant help but air on the side of caution for this. Things aren't adding up. If it's been here all this time what has the years long debate been for?
Title: Re: Why Taiji was fired by Yoshiki
Post by: TaijiSawada on July 27, 2020, 08:26:50 PM
I think it has a lot more to do with the known fact that some fans just idolize Yoshiki regardless of what he does, so it might be a  tad too difficult to digest what Taiji said about the past management of the band. It's a matter of acceptance more than of a 'mysterious secret truth'